To the Art Team: Argonian Armors
ShedsHisTail
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So I was looking at the new Argonian motifs that are to become available with the new DLC, and I can't help but notice that they don't appear to be designed for Argonians.
I'm looking most specifically at the heavy helmet.
Argonians have an elongated reptilian snout, as would be expected from a race of reptilian humanoids. For some reason, though, the skull-mask used in the helmet utilizes a more flat-faced profile. Which means, without the game mechanics stretching the mesh, it would only fit Men and Mer. This isn't an issue with the light and medium sets because they don't incorporate a face-mask. In fact, I think the avian skull design will compliment Argonian features really well.
However, it seems to me that any Argonian styles intended to cover the face would be designed with the elongated snout profile by default. By Argonians, for Argonians. But, instead, we get yet another helm that will end up looking weird on Argonian heads.
While I can't see the rear of armors in the pictures provided, I expect they aren't designed in such a fashion as to allow for a tail either. That's a lesser issue, though, since even the existing motifs we have in game don't account for tail features in cultural motifs for either Argonians or Khajiit.
I guess I'm just saying... If the armor models of every Man and Mer race have to end up looking weird on the beast race bodies. Can't the culturally appropriate beast-race motifs look similarly weird on Man and Mer? Would really love to have some Armor motifs that don't make my head look way too big for body when I'm wearing a helmet.
Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 23, 2016 9:49PM I'm looking most specifically at the heavy helmet.
Argonians have an elongated reptilian snout, as would be expected from a race of reptilian humanoids. For some reason, though, the skull-mask used in the helmet utilizes a more flat-faced profile. Which means, without the game mechanics stretching the mesh, it would only fit Men and Mer. This isn't an issue with the light and medium sets because they don't incorporate a face-mask. In fact, I think the avian skull design will compliment Argonian features really well.
However, it seems to me that any Argonian styles intended to cover the face would be designed with the elongated snout profile by default. By Argonians, for Argonians. But, instead, we get yet another helm that will end up looking weird on Argonian heads.
While I can't see the rear of armors in the pictures provided, I expect they aren't designed in such a fashion as to allow for a tail either. That's a lesser issue, though, since even the existing motifs we have in game don't account for tail features in cultural motifs for either Argonians or Khajiit.
I guess I'm just saying... If the armor models of every Man and Mer race have to end up looking weird on the beast race bodies. Can't the culturally appropriate beast-race motifs look similarly weird on Man and Mer? Would really love to have some Armor motifs that don't make my head look way too big for body when I'm wearing a helmet.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?
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ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Where's my scale-kin at?
C'mon folks, let rally and get some gear that doesn't look weird.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Well the skeleton polymorph from DB uses a race-specific skull, maybe this motif will as well? All we have so far is the concept art, and admittedly the model in that concept art is a man.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion4 -
Tekyn✭✭✭As a Khajiit I feel you pain on the tail/armor thing. I have had helmets turned off since release day, so I honestly don't know how good or bad they are for us.-- Khajiit like to sneak --1 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
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"We're all born under the same sky and on the same earth. Therefore, we all deserve the same amount of respect."
Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU3 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Any one know who's on the art team around here so I can tag 'em on this?
Really bugging me.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
Preyfar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The Argonian armor has always kind of bugged me. The heavy helm looks like a toilet seat. And while I love the tribal concept, this new heavy helm doesn't seem to mesh with Argonian faces as well. And helms on Argonians and Khajiit tend to be squashed and look kind of awkward as it is.
I wish the helm was designed to take Argonian horns and adornments into concept.Edited by Preyfar on June 24, 2016 1:41AM7 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Argonian armor has always kind of bugged me. The heavy helm looks like a toilet seat as it it is. And while I love the tribal concept, this new heavy helm doesn't seem to mesh with Argonian faces as well. And helms on Argonians and Khajiit tend to be squashed and look kind of awkward as it is.
I wish the helm was designed to take Argonian horns and adornments into concept.
This last bit I can largely understand form a purely game mechanic perspective; there's such a variation in horn and adornments for Argonians that the only real way to account for it all is to put sunroofs on all the helmets; or just make them headbands instead of proper helms.
But the basic facial anatomy is pretty universal. So it seems strange that it wouldn't be accounted for."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »The Argonian armor has always kind of bugged me. The heavy helm looks like a toilet seat as it it is. And while I love the tribal concept, this new heavy helm doesn't seem to mesh with Argonian faces as well. And helms on Argonians and Khajiit tend to be squashed and look kind of awkward as it is.
I wish the helm was designed to take Argonian horns and adornments into concept.
This last bit I can largely understand form a purely game mechanic perspective; there's such a variation in horn and adornments for Argonians that the only real way to account for it all is to put sunroofs on all the helmets; or just make them headbands instead of proper helms.
But the basic facial anatomy is pretty universal. So it seems strange that it wouldn't be accounted for.
This is why a lot of Argonians hide the helmet, because it ends up completely not matching with the head it is being used for.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
Aemon_Isklexi✭✭✭I was a bit disappointed that they used a race of man for the armor concept art instead of an Argonian (for obvious reasons). My Argonian uses hoods because they don't deform oddly like most helmets. Unfortunately, I've stopped using the Argonian style hood because the feathered adornment on it is pinned to some obscure part of the facial mesh instead of the hood itself. The adornment ended up hovering about 2 inches away from the hood itself and drove me nuts."I do not carry such information in my mind since it is readily available in books. ...The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think." ~Albert Einstein2 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭AtAfternoon wrote: »It's confirmed it's Argonian armour? Could very well be Kothringi.
Admittedly, I hadn't considered that. I took the label from the "All Motifs" thread at face value.
If that's the case, then consider this a preemptive "Can we make sure the Argonian helmets are designed for Argonians." thread.
Though Kothringi would be a strange choice since, you know, they're all dead. Oh! Spoilers!Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 23, 2016 10:21PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭mayne it'll just look differdnt on an argonian. could just be dropped set who knows.0 -
AtAfternoon✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Though Kothringi would be a strange choice since, you know, they're all dead. Oh! Spoilers!
The reason It could be Kothringi is because they mentioned them at Qukecon 2014, accompanied by this picture
while talking about the difficulties the art team had when making armour for a race that tend to run around butt naked, resulting in their armour being ceremonial armour.
The armour we've seen from the new DLC look to me like the kind of ceremonial armour a race that show a lot of skin would wear so I wouldn't be surprised if they re-designed it from how it looked 2 years ago.
You can find it here at 1:11:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jk7LrLgRfg
Edited by AtAfternoon on June 23, 2016 10:37PM0 -
Aemon_Isklexi✭✭✭It could be Kothringi, but we already have ancient motifs for elves and orcs (in addition to Orcs getting Trinimac and Malacath styles). I think it's more likely that it's a new Argonian style, especially since all the Kothringi are dead as far as we know."I do not carry such information in my mind since it is readily available in books. ...The value of a college education is not the learning of many facts but the training of the mind to think." ~Albert Einstein0
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AmberLaTerra✭✭✭✭Don't play an Argonian myself, more a feline fan and run a pair of Khajiit's, but you have my support those who are fans of playing Argonian's should have armor tailored to them.
For that matter I should have armor that covers my poor kitty tail, as it is now it out that all unarmored and a target just like yours only we cannot shed ours and grow new ones.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
CP 365 Nord DK DPS EP
CP 365 Imperal DK Stam Tank EP
Level 9 Imperial Stam Templar EP
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For the glory of the Pact0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Aemon_Isklexi wrote: »It could be Kothringi, but we already have ancient motifs for elves and orcs (in addition to Orcs getting Trinimac and Malacath styles). I think it's more likely that it's a new Argonian style, especially since all the Kothringi are dead as far as we know.
Just cuz the race is extinct doesn't mean we're not getting their style."We're all born under the same sky and on the same earth. Therefore, we all deserve the same amount of respect."
Tryxus of the Undying Song - Warden - PC/EU0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭AmberLaTerra wrote: »Don't play an Argonian myself, more a feline fan and run a pair of Khajiit's, but you have my support those who are fans of playing Argonian's should have armor tailored to them.
For that matter I should have armor that covers my poor kitty tail, as it is now it out that all unarmored and a target just like yours only we cannot shed ours and grow new ones.
At least your cultural motif has a cat face.
I'm not saying I want a literal lizard face; but I would at least like it to fit my lizard face without having to be stretched to wonky proportions.
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭AtAfternoon wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Though Kothringi would be a strange choice since, you know, they're all dead. Oh! Spoilers!
The reason It could be Kothringi is because they mentioned them at Qukecon 2014, accompanied by this picture
while talking about the difficulties the art team had when making armour for a race that tend to run around butt naked, resulting in their armour being ceremonial armour.
The armour we've seen from the new DLC look to me like the kind of ceremonial armour a race that show a lot of skin would wear so I wouldn't be surprised if they re-designed it from how it looked 2 years ago.
You can find it here at 1:11:30https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jk7LrLgRfg
Missed this before...
They've been working on Kothringi for two years?
That's crazy. Seems like it they were going to show us the Kothringi armor they'd put it on a silver-skinned Kothringi? Then again, if it's Argonian, you'd think they'd put it on an Argonian, so what do I know?
"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
Twilix01✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »AtAfternoon wrote: »It's confirmed it's Argonian armour? Could very well be Kothringi.
Admittedly, I hadn't considered that. I took the label from the "All Motifs" thread at face value.
If that's the case, then consider this a preemptive "Can we make sure the Argonian helmets are designed for Argonians." thread.
Though Kothringi would be a strange choice since, you know, they're all dead. Oh! Spoilers!
Well, we do have dwemer, ancient elf, and datamined yokudan styles. I wouldn't be surprised if more styles from dead races started cropping up. After all, they just need an example of what they wore to have a style for them.0 -
xxslam48xxb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Well the skeleton polymorph from DB uses a race-specific skull, maybe this motif will as well? All we have so far is the concept art, and admittedly the model in that concept art is a man.
@wayfarerx
The skeleton polymorph for me just makes me a human skeleton. Is there a Dark brotherhood quest polymorph that is different? Haven't beaten all the quests there yet. If there is then they should totally update the old skeleton polymorph to do that as well.I wrote a poem that I titled, "The ganker's delight."
As you lay upon the ground, cry not little pawn.
The pain will pass as quickly as my blade did take you,
but my delight will last and you will respawn.
My heart simply cannot contain my joy, when I ply my trade.
The fault lies with you, your skill was lacking.
Now your salt is mine forever, can't you hear the laughing?
Once you were so proud and now you are reduced to this.
A miserable, loud deuced fool.
With every tear you drip, with every excuse you let slip.
All of your insecurities and worries bring a smile to my lip.
From your despair I have ripped endless glories,
but our affair is over now. Be afraid for I will return for more.
I have received many titles, to my allies I am The sniper Emperor and Grand champion hero of the Pact. However these titles mean little to me, it is the ones given to me by my victims that I prefer. To them I am "Xv1er", "trash", "no balls", "zerger", "noob", "cringe", "no skill", "camper", "100% new", "the reason this game is dying", "pathetic", "a sack of piece of [snip]", "mediocre", "absolute inbred", "beyond a virgin", "ganky dork", "fat smelly 40yr old virgin", "little girl", "daddy", "exploiting loser", and every [snipped] word known to man.0 -
The best argonian armor is hand and feet shackles .
Dunmer approves. #giveourslavesback2 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »Well the skeleton polymorph from DB uses a race-specific skull, maybe this motif will as well? All we have so far is the concept art, and admittedly the model in that concept art is a man.
The skeleton polymorph for me just makes me a human skeleton. Is there a Dark brotherhood quest polymorph that is different? Haven't beaten all the quests there yet. If there is then they should totally update the old skeleton polymorph to do that as well.
@xxslam48xxb14_ESO
Yes, there is a polymorph that is available from the DB that is different from the Skeleton Polymorph. It's not really a quest item but one gotten for killing all the Litany of Blood Targets (Similar to the Wrothgar Museum and TG Hit List.)Edited by Silver_Strider on June 24, 2016 12:34PMArgonian forever0 -
xxslam48xxb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »Well the skeleton polymorph from DB uses a race-specific skull, maybe this motif will as well? All we have so far is the concept art, and admittedly the model in that concept art is a man.
The skeleton polymorph for me just makes me a human skeleton. Is there a Dark brotherhood quest polymorph that is different? Haven't beaten all the quests there yet. If there is then they should totally update the old skeleton polymorph to do that as well.
@xxslam48xxb14_ESO
Yes, there is a polymorph that is available from the DB that is different from the Skeleton Polymorph. It's not really a quest item but one gotten for killing all the Litany of Blood Targets (Similar to the Wrothgar Museum and TG Hit List.)
Cool thanks.I wrote a poem that I titled, "The ganker's delight."
As you lay upon the ground, cry not little pawn.
The pain will pass as quickly as my blade did take you,
but my delight will last and you will respawn.
My heart simply cannot contain my joy, when I ply my trade.
The fault lies with you, your skill was lacking.
Now your salt is mine forever, can't you hear the laughing?
Once you were so proud and now you are reduced to this.
A miserable, loud deuced fool.
With every tear you drip, with every excuse you let slip.
All of your insecurities and worries bring a smile to my lip.
From your despair I have ripped endless glories,
but our affair is over now. Be afraid for I will return for more.
I have received many titles, to my allies I am The sniper Emperor and Grand champion hero of the Pact. However these titles mean little to me, it is the ones given to me by my victims that I prefer. To them I am "Xv1er", "trash", "no balls", "zerger", "noob", "cringe", "no skill", "camper", "100% new", "the reason this game is dying", "pathetic", "a sack of piece of [snip]", "mediocre", "absolute inbred", "beyond a virgin", "ganky dork", "fat smelly 40yr old virgin", "little girl", "daddy", "exploiting loser", and every [snipped] word known to man.0 -
AmakarGranaen✭✭✭rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »The best argonian armor is hand and feet shackles .
Dunmer approves. #giveourslavesback
Cthulhu is coming, look busy1 -
Ravinsild✭✭✭✭As an Argonian player I agree. Most gear does look weird on their heads. I would like gear that looks like it was specifically made for them and everyone else can deal from there.0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rosendoichinoveb17_ESO wrote: »The best argonian armor is hand and feet shackles .
Dunmer approves. #giveourslavesback
P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
mistermutiny89✭✭✭✭✭Look at those shoulder pieces though.
I wonder how high above us they'll float??
*This is flight 376 reporting for landing*Guild Leader : Defenders Of Miley
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"Hmmm... Very convincing.. Does the illusion apply to.. Everywhere? Perhaps this one should have a moment alone in private to double check" - Razum'Dar0 -
Aquanova✭✭✭✭✭Well I have to agree with the OP. Argonian Heavy Helm looks like crap. I mean it looks like a stand or something we're wearing on our head's. Couldn't ZOS figure a design that actually looks good on our heads? Something that looks formidable instead of ridiculous.NA/PC0
