Is dual wield sorcerer dead?

Torbschka

Hey guys,

is it possible to still play as a dual wield sorcerer in pvp (it'sbasically a visual pereference, spellsword style)?

I was thinking about removing det with bound aegis, so I we've lost det burst, but get 8% extra magicka, maybe that will compensate that and u still can achieve nice burst with fury/frag/curse?

Furthermore the new weapon glyphs are awesome, except u play with dual wield as a sorcerer which makes a enchant pretty useless. I could slot a resto staff backbar with tthe glyph, but again, i wanted to go for sword and board here lol

So am I *** or can I still make it work?

5x Kagrenacs
4x Magnus
3x Willpower

pretty standard (could change Kag for Julianos/seducer)

Are there any sorcs out who still perform well in 1vX with Dual wield?

DannyLV702

I feel like it's been dead for a while now. For solo play at least

mtwiggz

Personally I gave up DW Sorc two patches ago. It was underperforming then, now it's only gotten worse. Force Pulse/Crushing Shock with weave was capable of putting out more DPS than Webs/Mages Wrath even with the extra SD from DW. Not to mention having better sustain with a staff than DW.

I'm sure you could still make it work if thats how you prefer to play. I find DW far more useful in group builds than a solo build though.

Not sure what you would use as your spammable DPS on a DW build anymore. Curse + Inevitable Det + Frag + Fury might still work, but in the current meta I doubt you'd be able to get off a decent enough rotation of that to kill anyone, excluding potatoes.

holosoul

if you're willing to give up heals, dw/destro is pretty fun
but sometimes it'll make you wish you had vigor

kinggingernator

It still works but ive been running 5 lich 5 julianos (best setup tbh, but lich takes a long time to farm). Run inner light on your front bar instead of det, you get a tiny amount less max than bound aegis but you only need it on one bar and end up gaining more damage because it also gives crit (and lets you pull people out of stealth). Ive been using it for a month or two now since pre patch to get ready for it and it works well still. I can link a vid of it in action if u want.

The_Great_Maldini

kinggingernator wrote: »

It still works but ive been running 5 lich 5 julianos (best setup tbh, but lich takes a long time to farm). Run inner light on your front bar instead of det, you get a tiny amount less max than bound aegis but you only need it on one bar and end up gaining more damage because it also gives crit (and lets you pull people out of stealth). Ive been using it for a month or two now since pre patch to get ready for it and it works well still. I can link a vid of it in action if u want.

With the plethora of critical damage resistance in Cyrodiil, wouldn't you find more bang for your buck by going with a set with more SD over Crit %? I feel like Julianos is a waste in this scenario. Also how do you run these two sets simultaneously when neither comes in Jewelry? You might be better off running with Vicious Death for the bonuses.

kinggingernator

The_Great_Maldini wrote: »

kinggingernator wrote: »

It still works but ive been running 5 lich 5 julianos (best setup tbh, but lich takes a long time to farm). Run inner light on your front bar instead of det, you get a tiny amount less max than bound aegis but you only need it on one bar and end up gaining more damage because it also gives crit (and lets you pull people out of stealth). Ive been using it for a month or two now since pre patch to get ready for it and it works well still. I can link a vid of it in action if u want.

With the plethora of critical damage resistance in Cyrodiil, wouldn't you find more bang for your buck by going with a set with more SD over Crit %? I feel like Julianos is a waste in this scenario. Also how do you run these two sets simultaneously when neither comes in Jewelry? You might be better off running with Vicious Death for the bonuses.

Yea crit resist is abundant but you arnt going to kill anyone without crits anyways- irregardless you will hit much harder when you crit and without det you NEED that frag to crit when it lands. Also, you run 3 julianos on body, 2 on swords, then 4 lich on body with the rest on back bar. You swap to back bar to get the proc and it switches back with you. I have 4k spell dmg 52% crit and 3.6k recovery with lich proc, along with a nice 45.5k max, and it's not even golded out gear.

Waffennacht

In PvP i still dw.

Front bar resto staff, x5 alchemist x3 Julianos x3 willpower

Back bar DW: x5 Julianos x4 Alchemist x3 willpower

When I go DW I'm rocking 4500 spell power, 41ish magicka, 1700 regen

Use resto heavy (i have frag both bar) and streak to wear my opponent and then Alchemist for huge burst.

Backbar is wrath, curse, innerlight, frag, hardened ward. Frag tooltip says 18k
Front bar resto is innerlight, streak, dampen magic (or ward which eva i want), blessing of restoration (or combat prayer for moar dmg) Frag

When alchemist active if frag isn't procced yet, it goes curse, wrath, wrath or frag, curse, frag, wrath etc... for mad damage.

You can go pure cheese and hit O mode in dw which alchemist going and just cheese LA people away.

I really like it for PvP

The_Great_Maldini

kinggingernator wrote: »

The_Great_Maldini wrote: »

kinggingernator wrote: »

It still works but ive been running 5 lich 5 julianos (best setup tbh, but lich takes a long time to farm). Run inner light on your front bar instead of det, you get a tiny amount less max than bound aegis but you only need it on one bar and end up gaining more damage because it also gives crit (and lets you pull people out of stealth). Ive been using it for a month or two now since pre patch to get ready for it and it works well still. I can link a vid of it in action if u want.

With the plethora of critical damage resistance in Cyrodiil, wouldn't you find more bang for your buck by going with a set with more SD over Crit %? I feel like Julianos is a waste in this scenario. Also how do you run these two sets simultaneously when neither comes in Jewelry? You might be better off running with Vicious Death for the bonuses.

Yea crit resist is abundant but you arnt going to kill anyone without crits anyways- irregardless you will hit much harder when you crit and without det you NEED that frag to crit when it lands. Also, you run 3 julianos on body, 2 on swords, then 4 lich on body with the rest on back bar. You swap to back bar to get the proc and it switches back with you. I have 4k spell dmg 52% crit and 3.6k recovery with lich proc, along with a nice 45.5k max, and it's not even golded out gear.

Those are basic end game stats with bound aegis active minus the regen. The regen would be situational if you are using Streak often and during retreats in general.

I do not in general have many magika sustain issues with 5 Kags, 5 VD, 1 Kena.

I guess I would be interested to try it out; however it is still quite pricey on the vendors.

Crystal Frag crits are a couple K more on a crit on someone with decent crit resist from what I've seen. They hit hard even without a crit if you have your champion points and SD setup correctly.

kinggingernator

The_Great_Maldini wrote: »

kinggingernator wrote: »

The_Great_Maldini wrote: »

kinggingernator wrote: »

It still works but ive been running 5 lich 5 julianos (best setup tbh, but lich takes a long time to farm). Run inner light on your front bar instead of det, you get a tiny amount less max than bound aegis but you only need it on one bar and end up gaining more damage because it also gives crit (and lets you pull people out of stealth). Ive been using it for a month or two now since pre patch to get ready for it and it works well still. I can link a vid of it in action if u want.

With the plethora of critical damage resistance in Cyrodiil, wouldn't you find more bang for your buck by going with a set with more SD over Crit %? I feel like Julianos is a waste in this scenario. Also how do you run these two sets simultaneously when neither comes in Jewelry? You might be better off running with Vicious Death for the bonuses.

Yea crit resist is abundant but you arnt going to kill anyone without crits anyways- irregardless you will hit much harder when you crit and without det you NEED that frag to crit when it lands. Also, you run 3 julianos on body, 2 on swords, then 4 lich on body with the rest on back bar. You swap to back bar to get the proc and it switches back with you. I have 4k spell dmg 52% crit and 3.6k recovery with lich proc, along with a nice 45.5k max, and it's not even golded out gear.

Those are basic end game stats with bound aegis active minus the regen. The regen would be situational if you are using Streak often and during retreats in general.

I do not in general have many magika sustain issues with 5 Kags, 5 VD, 1 Kena.

I guess I would be interested to try it out; however it is still quite pricey on the vendors.

Crystal Frag crits are a couple K more on a crit on someone with decent crit resist from what I've seen. They hit hard even without a crit if you have your champion points and SD setup correctly.

Those stats were without bound aegis-just inner light. Yea frags only hit a couple k harder but when them and curse are your ONLY dmg until execute, it's very important that you get them TO execute. Another thing is open world 1vX comes against plebeians who often don't run impen. Idk I love the stats- more than enough dmg to burst and infinite sustain.

Makkir

You can see my DW sorc 1vX video here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/269835/makkir-sorc-pvp-video-the-lich-b-tch#latest

It was filmed weeks prior to DB however it still functions because it never utilized trapping webs or dawnbreaker.
Sets are 5pc Julianos and 5pc Lich. The regen from Lich is just amazing. Lich only comes as a resto staff so enables you to run 5pc julianos on your DW bar. Depending on your race you can push 50k magicka running Mage stone and toggles. I think mine was 46k magicka.

Lokey0024

kinggingernator wrote: »

It still works but ive been running 5 lich 5 julianos (best setup tbh, but lich takes a long time to farm). Run inner light on your front bar instead of det, you get a tiny amount less max than bound aegis but you only need it on one bar and end up gaining more damage because it also gives crit (and lets you pull people out of stealth). Ive been using it for a month or two now since pre patch to get ready for it and it works well still. I can link a vid of it in action if u want.

@kinggingernator what do you use to apply pressure. Most times i burn threw them unless they camp mines then just ignore.

Jsmalls

Change Kags for elegant set, and faceroll with overload, use shadow for even more troll effects. Currently hitting for stupid amounts on crits, 15k to 18k being my average. I've one shot several players due to proccing electrocution passive. It's fun, but prepare for hate mail.

mubzander

I can use a bow on my magicka if I wanted too or even a 2H. These talk about best builds and stuff make me laugh.

Like come on, if someone had the most OP build why would they even share it?

If you like playing with DW you should play it.

Van_0S

I remember a thread that asked for sorcerer to not equip swords or its weird like gandalf the grey having two swords to fight instead of a staff.

holosoul

Van_0S wrote: »

I remember a thread that asked for sorcerer to not equip sword or its weird like gandalf the grey having to swords to fight instead of a staff.

if staves gave the same spell damage and set bonuses as swords no one would even care
one or the other could even be sacrificed, for example if staff spell power was at least comparable or better than dual swords.
or if a staff counted as 'two' set pieces

Lord-Otto

Waffennacht wrote: »

In PvP i still dw.

Front bar resto staff, x5 alchemist x3 Julianos x3 willpower

Back bar DW: x5 Julianos x4 Alchemist x3 willpower

When I go DW I'm rocking 4500 spell power, 41ish magicka, 1700 regen

Use resto heavy (i have frag both bar) and streak to wear my opponent and then Alchemist for huge burst.

Backbar is wrath, curse, innerlight, frag, hardened ward. Frag tooltip says 18k
Front bar resto is innerlight, streak, dampen magic (or ward which eva i want), blessing of restoration (or combat prayer for moar dmg) Frag

When alchemist active if frag isn't procced yet, it goes curse, wrath, wrath or frag, curse, frag, wrath etc... for mad damage.

You can go pure cheese and hit O mode in dw which alchemist going and just cheese LA people away.

I really like it for PvP

Only that your main damage comes from a frag every now and then... Which gets blocked or dodgerolled.
I've been trying a few approaches with DW, and the problem is always the same: there are too many good counters.
Inevitable+Curse+Frag+Fury? My favourite, helps with heal/dodge spammers. Pray that people won't jump behind trees (SPOILER: They WILL!) and pray that your alliance holds enough scrolls to actually bring your enemy to 25% health.
Frags as a dps move, procced by Hardened Ward or hard-cast (your approach)? Dodge. Dodgedodgedodge... or reflect! xD
Our 4500 spellpower is completely useless because of simple things. I gave up on it. DW is dead.
So, use destro instead for constant dps, right? Flaming staff projectiles, check. Staff-beam-projectile, check. Frag projectile, check. Enemy has dodge and wings? Check! Have fun having your sh*t reflected or dodged completely, while having barely 3k spellpower.
Sorcs are in such a bad place right now...
(-.-)p

Jsmalls

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

In PvP i still dw.

Front bar resto staff, x5 alchemist x3 Julianos x3 willpower

Back bar DW: x5 Julianos x4 Alchemist x3 willpower

When I go DW I'm rocking 4500 spell power, 41ish magicka, 1700 regen

Use resto heavy (i have frag both bar) and streak to wear my opponent and then Alchemist for huge burst.

Backbar is wrath, curse, innerlight, frag, hardened ward. Frag tooltip says 18k
Front bar resto is innerlight, streak, dampen magic (or ward which eva i want), blessing of restoration (or combat prayer for moar dmg) Frag

When alchemist active if frag isn't procced yet, it goes curse, wrath, wrath or frag, curse, frag, wrath etc... for mad damage.

You can go pure cheese and hit O mode in dw which alchemist going and just cheese LA people away.

I really like it for PvP

Only that your main damage comes from a frag every now and then... Which gets blocked or dodgerolled.
I've been trying a few approaches with DW, and the problem is always the same: there are too many good counters.
Inevitable+Curse+Frag+Fury? My favourite, helps with heal/dodge spammers. Pray that people won't jump behind trees (SPOILER: They WILL!) and pray that your alliance holds enough scrolls to actually bring your enemy to 25% health.
Frags as a dps move, procced by Hardened Ward or hard-cast (your approach)? Dodge. Dodgedodgedodge... or reflect! xD
Our 4500 spellpower is completely useless because of simple things. I gave up on it. DW is dead.
So, use destro instead for constant dps, right? Flaming staff projectiles, check. Staff-beam-projectile, check. Frag projectile, check. Enemy has dodge and wings? Check! Have fun having your sh*t reflected or dodged completely, while having barely 3k spellpower.
Sorcs are in such a bad place right now...
(-.-)p

Right! Our comboes are sooo easily dodged. Our best offense against a chronic roller is curse and streak -___- good luck killing people with that.

But it's okay we always find a way.

Kas

very alive as stam build with many dots and heals (personally i prefer 1h/s variants but w/e).
pretty dead as magicka variant (i never liked to play w/o light attack anyway, now even more so)

Minalan

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

In PvP i still dw.

Front bar resto staff, x5 alchemist x3 Julianos x3 willpower

Back bar DW: x5 Julianos x4 Alchemist x3 willpower

When I go DW I'm rocking 4500 spell power, 41ish magicka, 1700 regen

Use resto heavy (i have frag both bar) and streak to wear my opponent and then Alchemist for huge burst.

Backbar is wrath, curse, innerlight, frag, hardened ward. Frag tooltip says 18k
Front bar resto is innerlight, streak, dampen magic (or ward which eva i want), blessing of restoration (or combat prayer for moar dmg) Frag

When alchemist active if frag isn't procced yet, it goes curse, wrath, wrath or frag, curse, frag, wrath etc... for mad damage.

You can go pure cheese and hit O mode in dw which alchemist going and just cheese LA people away.

I really like it for PvP

Only that your main damage comes from a frag every now and then... Which gets blocked or dodgerolled.
I've been trying a few approaches with DW, and the problem is always the same: there are too many good counters.
Inevitable+Curse+Frag+Fury? My favourite, helps with heal/dodge spammers. Pray that people won't jump behind trees (SPOILER: They WILL!) and pray that your alliance holds enough scrolls to actually bring your enemy to 25% health.
Frags as a dps move, procced by Hardened Ward or hard-cast (your approach)? Dodge. Dodgedodgedodge... or reflect! xD
Our 4500 spellpower is completely useless because of simple things. I gave up on it. DW is dead.
So, use destro instead for constant dps, right? Flaming staff projectiles, check. Staff-beam-projectile, check. Frag projectile, check. Enemy has dodge and wings? Check! Have fun having your sh*t reflected or dodged completely, while having barely 3k spellpower.
Sorcs are in such a bad place right now...
(-.-)p

The dark brotherhood sorc meta is 3100 spell damage buffed, with most of your damage coming from 41K max Magicka and the most important thing: sustain from atronach, seducer, light armor, racial passives, and Magnus sets.

So long as your sustain is through the roof, that DK is NOT going to kill you either, and you can leave at any time. So the strategy is long resource grinds, stealing his Magicka while dropping ultimates. Use Mage guild abilities and empowered frags when he leaves an opening.

4500 Spell damage builds are gone because they don't have the sustain anymore. Every ability costs 10% more in dark brotherhood. Shields only last six seconds and need constant recast. Your light armor is useless (sharpened weapons and major breach), so you will need healing ward more often. All of this casting is too much for the typical 1200-1500 sustain builds with almost no Magicka cost reduction.

In a fight You're dry on Magicka before you know it and helpless, it can't compete with a sorc sustain build because the other guy can keep shielding and healing forever.

Makkir

@jyates214b14_ESO

Mages Wrath for dodge rollers as well.

bardx86

Minalan wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

In PvP i still dw.

Front bar resto staff, x5 alchemist x3 Julianos x3 willpower

Back bar DW: x5 Julianos x4 Alchemist x3 willpower

When I go DW I'm rocking 4500 spell power, 41ish magicka, 1700 regen

Use resto heavy (i have frag both bar) and streak to wear my opponent and then Alchemist for huge burst.

Backbar is wrath, curse, innerlight, frag, hardened ward. Frag tooltip says 18k
Front bar resto is innerlight, streak, dampen magic (or ward which eva i want), blessing of restoration (or combat prayer for moar dmg) Frag

When alchemist active if frag isn't procced yet, it goes curse, wrath, wrath or frag, curse, frag, wrath etc... for mad damage.

You can go pure cheese and hit O mode in dw which alchemist going and just cheese LA people away.

I really like it for PvP

Only that your main damage comes from a frag every now and then... Which gets blocked or dodgerolled.
I've been trying a few approaches with DW, and the problem is always the same: there are too many good counters.
Inevitable+Curse+Frag+Fury? My favourite, helps with heal/dodge spammers. Pray that people won't jump behind trees (SPOILER: They WILL!) and pray that your alliance holds enough scrolls to actually bring your enemy to 25% health.
Frags as a dps move, procced by Hardened Ward or hard-cast (your approach)? Dodge. Dodgedodgedodge... or reflect! xD
Our 4500 spellpower is completely useless because of simple things. I gave up on it. DW is dead.
So, use destro instead for constant dps, right? Flaming staff projectiles, check. Staff-beam-projectile, check. Frag projectile, check. Enemy has dodge and wings? Check! Have fun having your sh*t reflected or dodged completely, while having barely 3k spellpower.
Sorcs are in such a bad place right now...
(-.-)p

The dark brotherhood sorc meta is 3100 spell damage buffed, with most of your damage coming from 41K max Magicka and the most important thing: sustain from atronach, seducer, light armor, racial passives, and Magnus sets.

So long as your sustain is through the roof, that DK is NOT going to kill you either, and you can leave at any time. So the strategy is long resource grinds, stealing his Magicka while dropping ultimates. Use Mage guild abilities and empowered frags when he leaves an opening.

4500 Spell damage builds are gone because they don't have the sustain anymore. Every ability costs 10% more in dark brotherhood. Shields only last six seconds and need constant recast. Your light armor is useless (sharpened weapons and major breach), so you will need healing ward more often. All of this casting is too much for the typical 1200-1500 sustain builds with almost no Magicka cost reduction.

In a fight You're dry on Magicka before you know it and helpless, it can't compete with a sorc sustain build because the other guy can keep shielding and healing forever.

How are you hitting 41k magic using the atronach? I have to use the mage passive and I'm only hit 39k.

Minalan

bardx86 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

In PvP i still dw.

Front bar resto staff, x5 alchemist x3 Julianos x3 willpower

Back bar DW: x5 Julianos x4 Alchemist x3 willpower

When I go DW I'm rocking 4500 spell power, 41ish magicka, 1700 regen

Use resto heavy (i have frag both bar) and streak to wear my opponent and then Alchemist for huge burst.

Backbar is wrath, curse, innerlight, frag, hardened ward. Frag tooltip says 18k
Front bar resto is innerlight, streak, dampen magic (or ward which eva i want), blessing of restoration (or combat prayer for moar dmg) Frag

When alchemist active if frag isn't procced yet, it goes curse, wrath, wrath or frag, curse, frag, wrath etc... for mad damage.

You can go pure cheese and hit O mode in dw which alchemist going and just cheese LA people away.

I really like it for PvP

Only that your main damage comes from a frag every now and then... Which gets blocked or dodgerolled.
I've been trying a few approaches with DW, and the problem is always the same: there are too many good counters.
Inevitable+Curse+Frag+Fury? My favourite, helps with heal/dodge spammers. Pray that people won't jump behind trees (SPOILER: They WILL!) and pray that your alliance holds enough scrolls to actually bring your enemy to 25% health.
Frags as a dps move, procced by Hardened Ward or hard-cast (your approach)? Dodge. Dodgedodgedodge... or reflect! xD
Our 4500 spellpower is completely useless because of simple things. I gave up on it. DW is dead.
So, use destro instead for constant dps, right? Flaming staff projectiles, check. Staff-beam-projectile, check. Frag projectile, check. Enemy has dodge and wings? Check! Have fun having your sh*t reflected or dodged completely, while having barely 3k spellpower.
Sorcs are in such a bad place right now...
(-.-)p

The dark brotherhood sorc meta is 3100 spell damage buffed, with most of your damage coming from 41K max Magicka and the most important thing: sustain from atronach, seducer, light armor, racial passives, and Magnus sets.

So long as your sustain is through the roof, that DK is NOT going to kill you either, and you can leave at any time. So the strategy is long resource grinds, stealing his Magicka while dropping ultimates. Use Mage guild abilities and empowered frags when he leaves an opening.

4500 Spell damage builds are gone because they don't have the sustain anymore. Every ability costs 10% more in dark brotherhood. Shields only last six seconds and need constant recast. Your light armor is useless (sharpened weapons and major breach), so you will need healing ward more often. All of this casting is too much for the typical 1200-1500 sustain builds with almost no Magicka cost reduction.

In a fight You're dry on Magicka before you know it and helpless, it can't compete with a sorc sustain build because the other guy can keep shielding and healing forever.

How are you hitting 41k magic using the atronach? I have to use the mage passive and I'm only hit 39k.

501CP - blue points raise Magicka
Undaunted mettle passive - 6% extra Magicka from 5/1/1 light/med/heavy armor.
Front bar entropy and meteor - might of the guild 4% Magicka
All points into Magicka
Infused large armor parts
Breton or High Elf passive
All arcane jewelry, 3x willpower
All gold Magicka enchants

It adds up on me to a little over 41K. I admit that I often back-bar entropy/surge for most fights, so it adds up to 40.5K in that configuration.

Also remember that 10 Magicka is worth about 1 spell damage. So the 2500 extra Magicka I have is worth about 250 spell damage in the spell damage formula. So 3K spell damage is fine, the other side of the formula balances it out.

Lisbette

My dual wield sorc is alive and well and face melting people as always. Have had dual wield since 1.6 and have never looked back. Check out my dark brotherhood preview
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://youtu.be/D10znWklEt4&quot; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

-TAMERLIN

bardx86

Undaunted mettle passive - 6% extra Magicka from 5/1/1 light/med/heavy armor.

Thats it I don't have it, all the rest is the same.

Minalan

bardx86 wrote: »

Undaunted mettle passive - 6% extra Magicka from 5/1/1 light/med/heavy armor.

Thats it I don't have it, all the rest is the same.

39000 * 1.06 is over 41K

Plus, you get the bonus for having heavy legs and a medium chest (or vice-versa).

Problem is, undaunted is a PITA to level. Most people don't, because grinding vet dungeon achievements and running daily pledges isn't fun for most PVPers. It's an ugly grind if you don't like PVE, and PUG groups are abominable 80% of the time.