Remove racial abilities or make them switchable

B3N

In my opinion, the concept of racial abilities is completely broken. If you want to get the maximum out of your character, you are more or less forced to play a specific race just because of the passive abilities.

Even a possibility like the “Barber Shop” to make a race change just for the sake of getting other passives is broken, because when people are allowed to change their race, the most seen races would be High elfs, Breton or Redguard.

I think there are two solutions for that:

1. Remove all racial abilities completely from the game (preferred)
2. Unbind the current racials from the race and make them switchable in a clever way

I’m interested in how you guys see this topic?

Hartagon

I think racials are a staple of the Elder Scrolls universe.

I also think it is quite silly that you can get several thousand magicka/stamina from racials.

Even Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim didn't have racials that were anywhere near as strong as in this game, and they are single player games where balance was rather irrelevant.

phaneub17_ESO

There's only a couple of racials that suck... unless you're an Argonian then its all of it.

Van_0S

OP,That was my idea also in some other thread but it got backfired by some.

This wil be one of the solution to solve these imbalance.

Vangy

Nah, no one forces u to pick any race but yourself. And there are a vast number of combinations for builds.

Ie: Dunmers make amazing magDKs while Altmers fare better with sorcs and temps.

Or Khajiit Nbs , Bosmer Nbs, Redguard Nbs, Altmer (magblades) etc etc. All of them are very solid and viable albiet focusing on different aspects. Khajiit --> stealth burst pawnzor, bosmer has INSANE sustain, redguard is a nice mix.

Imperial tanks, nord tanks, argonian tanks --> Imperials are nice and flexible, nords have some sick health regen tank builds while argonians make remarkable tank with self heals. Ive got a guildie who did vWGT solo healing while tanking for group. Sick.

The only thing limiting you is you my friend.

Amdar_Godkiller

This is definitely where the game needs balance. I like that there are racial passives; I just feel that between the 3 factions, EP races have kind of gotten shafted in terms of racial passives.

Nords: Designed to be tanks, but without any stam/magic regen, they're not even ideal for this.

What they need: 5% bonus to stam and magic regen



Argonians: I'm sure sap tanking gets old. Oh, but at least they can swim fast.

What they need:, a modest max magic boost, and a decent boost to spells critical



Dunmer: Ideal Magicka DKs, but that's not particularly intimidating for PVP. They were a solid Stam DK choice, but with the switch to poison-based morphs, that fire damage bonus is even more niche.

What they need: 3% stam regen buff and to allow them to synergize better with Stam DKs, replace the flame buff with a 7% buff to all DOTs

Reevster

Its part of the MMO experience, choose a race with a ability that suits your play style, why do people feel they must always push for changes when no changes are needed.

Do what MMO players have been doing for 20 years, make an alt with the ability flavor of the day, which is another MMO experience btw.

Kronuxx

Vangy wrote: »

Nah, no one forces u to pick any race but yourself. And there are a vast number of combinations for builds.

Ie: Dunmers make amazing magDKs while Altmers fare better with sorcs and temps.

Or Khajiit Nbs , Bosmer Nbs, Redguard Nbs, Altmer (magblades) etc etc. All of them are very solid and viable albiet focusing on different aspects. Khajiit --> stealth burst pawnzor, bosmer has INSANE sustain, redguard is a nice mix.

Imperial tanks, nord tanks, argonian tanks --> Imperials are nice and flexible, nords have some sick health regen tank builds while argonians make remarkable tank with self heals. Ive got a guildie who did vWGT solo healing while tanking for group. Sick.

The only thing limiting you is you my friend.

^ Truth

AJ_1988

I'll happily swap out red diamond for max magicka on my imperial Templar

B3N

Vangy wrote: »

Nah, no one forces u to pick any race but yourself. And there are a vast number of combinations for builds.

Ie: Dunmers make amazing magDKs while Altmers fare better with sorcs and temps.

Or Khajiit Nbs , Bosmer Nbs, Redguard Nbs, Altmer (magblades) etc etc. All of them are very solid and viable albiet focusing on different aspects. Khajiit --> stealth burst pawnzor, bosmer has INSANE sustain, redguard is a nice mix.

Imperial tanks, nord tanks, argonian tanks --> Imperials are nice and flexible, nords have some sick health regen tank builds while argonians make remarkable tank with self heals. Ive got a guildie who did vWGT solo healing while tanking for group. Sick.

The only thing limiting you is you my friend.

You should read my initial post a bit more in detail. As I said - if you want to get the maximum out of your character, you are absolutely forced to play a specific race.

For example: I like the Nords because of their style and overall appearance. But on the other hand, playing a magicka Templar as Nord is totally crap when you want to get as much as possible stats out of your character. Let’s get one more example, I switch from magicka to stamina – now Redguard would be the best choice.

It’s totally broken that someone is getting thousands of magicka or stamina points more, just because he is playing another race.

Psyonico

Hartagon wrote: »

Even Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim didn't have racials that were anywhere near as strong as in this game, and they are single player games where balance was rather irrelevant.

Methinks you never played a Breton in Oblivion (50% magic resist out the gate)

You don't "need" to pick the optimal race for any given role; you can make up for differences using sets and CP, you just won't be min/maxed

psychotic13

Oh yeah in that case I'll choose:

The Orc passive - +6% Max Stamina/Health
The Dunmer passive - +6% Max Stamina/Magicka

Now I'm at +6% Heath and Magicka and +12% stamina and still have a passive left? Come at me bro.

Stupid idea, no offence ment.

B3N

psychotic13 wrote: »

Oh yeah in that case I'll choose:

The Orc passive - +6% Max Stamina/Health
The Dunmer passive - +6% Max Stamina/Magicka

Now I'm at +6% Heath and Magicka and +12% stamina and still have a passive left? Come at me bro.

Stupid idea, no offence ment.

As I said in my inital post, in a clever way. Your way, is the not so clever way, that's for sure.

Psyonico wrote: »

You don't "need" to pick the optimal race for any given role; you can make up for differences using sets and CP, you just won't be min/maxed

As I said too in my initial post, to get the maximum out of your character. If you don't want to get out the maximum, then of course you don't have to pick a specific race.

Turelus

Race change is coming, if you want to min/max FOTM builds you'll be able to switch race any time for a fee.

If you're not super fussed about min/max just play any race/class combo you want and focus on improving player skill over game stats to be stronger.

B3N

Well, I hope it's not just simple a race change, if they will keep the racials, then I really hope they implement it in a cleverer way then just a simple race change. My preferred solution is still to remove the racials completely from the game, because I think the whole idea behind racials is (except from a role playing standpoint maybe) broken.

tnanever

psychotic13 wrote: »

Oh yeah in that case I'll choose:

The Orc passive - +6% Max Stamina/Health
The Dunmer passive - +6% Max Stamina/Magicka

Now I'm at +6% Heath and Magicka and +12% stamina and still have a passive left? Come at me bro.

Stupid idea, no offence ment.

Stupid? That's your response. You imagine the stupidest, most unbalanced way that the idea could be implemented, then bash the whole idea as bad. You're annoyingly dense.

Vangy

B3N wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Nah, no one forces u to pick any race but yourself. And there are a vast number of combinations for builds.

Ie: Dunmers make amazing magDKs while Altmers fare better with sorcs and temps.

Or Khajiit Nbs , Bosmer Nbs, Redguard Nbs, Altmer (magblades) etc etc. All of them are very solid and viable albiet focusing on different aspects. Khajiit --> stealth burst pawnzor, bosmer has INSANE sustain, redguard is a nice mix.

Imperial tanks, nord tanks, argonian tanks --> Imperials are nice and flexible, nords have some sick health regen tank builds while argonians make remarkable tank with self heals. Ive got a guildie who did vWGT solo healing while tanking for group. Sick.

The only thing limiting you is you my friend.

You should read my initial post a bit more in detail. As I said - if you want to get the maximum out of your character, you are absolutely forced to play a specific race.

For example: I like the Nords because of their style and overall appearance. But on the other hand, playing a magicka Templar as Nord is totally crap when you want to get as much as possible stats out of your character. Let’s get one more example, I switch from magicka to stamina – now Redguard would be the best choice.

It’s totally broken that someone is getting thousands of magicka or stamina points more, just because he is playing another race.

Tell me... Which is the best race for a stam NB? I can tell you what NOT to pick. Ie dont use altmer.... Or breton... Short of that, everything else is perfectly good as long as you build right. I can't tell you what TO pick for sure. Cos there is no right answer. Khajiit might do the best DPS but redguard has more sustain. Which is more valuable to you? Or would you prefer imperials for the bonus max stam for better burst and flexibility via extra hp in PvP? You can min max a bosmer, redguard, khajiit etc etc to their fullest potential.....

As long as you dont pick a race that is COMPLETELY perpendicular to your choice of play, you can min max.....

What you are asking for (ie a total homogenisation/mix&match of racials) is completely against the idea of the elder scroll series.... If you feel so strongly about this, maybe ESO isnt the game for you.. This topic has been bashed back and forth into death countless times over the years... Everytime, the side arguing for this is met with overwhelming opposition... As it should be.

Pick a race that is good for your choice of play.

If you want racials to be toned down to minimise the gaps in optimal builds, I can understand that. But im gona say a fierce no to mixing and matching of racials. It kills the flavour of lore for me.

olsborg

Id prefer to have the racials switchable in a clever way. Cause then ppl could be who/what they wanted to be portrayed as and take no hits in terms of combat prowess.

Or you will only see redguards, altmer or bosmer or breton etc in pvp.

Vangy

olsborg wrote: »

Id prefer to have the racials switchable in a clever way. Cause then ppl could be who/what they wanted to be portrayed as and take no hits in terms of combat prowess.

Or you will only see redguards, altmer or bosmer or breton etc in pvp.

My imperial DK is slightly dismayed that you did not mention his people..... He makes a very support tank.... T.T

My khajiit NB however, is plotting to gank and teabag you

=X (joking btw, in case it wasnt clear)

EDIT: Nvm you're AD too.. For KATE BECKINSALE~

B3N

Vangy wrote: »

As long as you dont pick a race that is COMPLETELY perpendicular to your choice of play, you can min max.....

Pick a race that is good for your choice of play.

That's the whole point, that's why I started this discussion. Why do I have to pick a race which is good for my type of class / gameplay? Why can't I simply play the race of my choice without considering if it's the best or not for my class?

I love this game and in my previous post I said: maybe from a role playing perspective the racial abilities make sense, but only in this case.

SanSan

"If you want to get the maximum out of your character, you are more or less forced to play a specific race just because of the passive abilities."

Who cares about this? You are playing for power so picking a race does not matter at all.
What i mean by not caring is how the race looks like.

Noerknhar

Race system is *** at the moment.

I can't play an Argonian because of the racial stuff. Or does anyone want to miss out on the HUGE benefits?

psychotic13

B3N wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Oh yeah in that case I'll choose:

The Orc passive - +6% Max Stamina/Health
The Dunmer passive - +6% Max Stamina/Magicka

Now I'm at +6% Heath and Magicka and +12% stamina and still have a passive left? Come at me bro.

Stupid idea, no offence ment.

As I said in my inital post, in a clever way. Your way, is the not so clever way, that's for sure.

I'm just going to throw this out there, if you spent a lot more time getting to know the ins and outs of your character, you could be an Orc Magicka player and do well.

Skill means more than a few extra % bonus, like it really does.

B3N

psychotic13 wrote: »

I'm just going to throw this out there, if you spent a lot more time getting to know the ins and outs of your character, you could be an Orc Magicka player and do well.

Skill means more than a few extra % bonus, like it really does.

I agree with that. I'm playing a magicka Templar as Nord, by far one of the worst combinations and I'm doing very well against a majority of the people I fight. But when I fight against another player with a nearly equal skill level and he has picked the perfect race for his combination, then I'm in a disadvantage and can't do anything about this.

And you should consider the following: A huge amount of the damage is scaled on Stamina or Magicka. As a Nord, I get 9% more health which except Blazing Shield, no damage is scaling from. And consider one more thing. For example the 10% more Magicka from Altmer or Breton is also scaling with CP’s. As a Altmer or Breton I can achieve between 45-50k Magicka which I can never ever achieve with a Nord – under no circumstances! This brings any person with a bad race / class combination in a much harder position and when the skill level of both is equal this disadvantage is even harder.

psychotic13

B3N wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

I'm just going to throw this out there, if you spent a lot more time getting to know the ins and outs of your character, you could be an Orc Magicka player and do well.

Skill means more than a few extra % bonus, like it really does.

I agree with that. I'm playing a magicka Templar as Nord, by far one of the worst combinations and I'm doing very well against a majority of the people I fight. But when I fight against another player with a nearly equal skill level and he has picked the perfect race for his combination, then I'm in a disadvantage and can't do anything about this.

And you should consider the following: A huge amount of the damage is scaled on Stamina or Magicka. As a Nord, I get 9% more health which except Blazing Shield, no damage is scaling from. And consider one more thing. For example the 10% more Magicka from Altmer or Breton is also scaling with CP’s. As a Altmer or Breton I can achieve between 45-50k Magicka which I can never ever achieve with a Nord – under no circumstances! This brings any person with a bad race / class combination in a much harder position and when the skill level of both is equal this disadvantage is even harder.

I don't know about that, tbh I've seen several people say that nord is actually a good race for anything in PvP because of the mitigation they get. And because you have max health and they have max Magicka that just means where he puts a few point or whatever into health to keep his survivability up, you don't you can go full Magicka.

I know people go full Magicka everything on a Magicka race, but they're the squishy glass cannons. I really don't think racial swaps are needed, ok maybe a few Passives should be enhanced for 1 or 2 races but apart from that it's no big deal, most of it comes down to knowing what to do when your opponent uses certain Abilitys and countering them.

And you won't have 50k Magicka easily, not even with a Magicka race that's something you have to create your build around.

Azurya

imo the racial skills can have you struggling trying to get the max out of your char.

and I have very different races, and 7 of them I play NB, just to see how I can get the most out of each of them.
That is the way I like it, but yeah I can see that it is for others who just started some char without thinking about racials they can have a cold shower any day
on the other hand it does not take that long to lvl a new char now, 2 years ago that was a little different.

I like the specific racials and finding out to make to most out of it, so pls let it be!!

Izaki

B3N wrote: »

Well, I hope it's not just simple a race change, if they will keep the racials, then I really hope they implement it in a cleverer way then just a simple race change. My preferred solution is still to remove the racials completely from the game, because I think the whole idea behind racials is (except from a role playing standpoint maybe) broken.

Well you see this game still has the Elder Scrolls tm so they kinda have to keep the racials as its something present in every Elder Scrolls game. They kept Tamriel, they kept the races, they have to keep the passives too.

B3N

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Well you see this game still has the Elder Scrolls tm so they kinda have to keep the racials as its something present in every Elder Scrolls game. They kept Tamriel, they kept the races, they have to keep the passives too.

Well, it's their game and they can do with it whatever they want. And by the way, you really can't set a single player game in comparison to a multiplayer game.

Besides that, this is just a open discussion.

Burning_Talons

Reroll

Oakmontowls_ESO

What about a system where you can "level" the middle two passives based on how you build your character. The last passive will however be set with race and will contain the iconic passives that are unique to each race. In short there would still be a reason to pick each race but this would mean you wouldn't have to be locked into a magika build because you picked an altmer. So how this system would work is that you would be able to pick a max resource passive and a regen passive but the last passive will be race specific. However the last passive would also include multiple benefits like for example dunmer would get their fire damage in addition to some of the fire resist that they have now and altmer would get their elemental damage buff with like 1% extra magika. Also all of the values of the racial passives would be reworked to have less of an overall effect on the game.

nordsavage

No racial passive in an Elder Scrolls game? Who do you think you are? Do you even Elder Scrolls?