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Is this game canon?
Llilium
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like, i'm seriously confused. if all of these factions that are against eachother in a war composed of the same people from the same lands across tamriel as a whole, why is there a war in the first place? i figured "ok, i guess this is a fluke scenario and your non-pact race fighting for the pact is kind of a hypothetical thing or maybe he's pledged allegience to the pact since he's been here forever" but if you're from the pact and also fighting in daggerfall lands for their causes too, where's the tension? did the war end? what exactly is going on here?
with this being said, all the mounts and etc etc, plus the main questline and your particular hero being the end-all-be-all hero of the world destroying molag ball and so on, is this game something that should be regarded as just non-canon? is the WAR just non canon?
clearly game mechanics are non canon because god forbid we have 500 million people running around blowing fire and growing spikes out of their backs and other people vanishing and teleporting and etc etc, whilst riding around on alien panther ghosts, despite that being the most glaring piece of nightmare.
HELP ME UNDERSTAND ZOS / ESO COMMUNITY. HELP ME FIND PEACE
(((((((((
with this being said, all the mounts and etc etc, plus the main questline and your particular hero being the end-all-be-all hero of the world destroying molag ball and so on, is this game something that should be regarded as just non-canon? is the WAR just non canon?
clearly game mechanics are non canon because god forbid we have 500 million people running around blowing fire and growing spikes out of their backs and other people vanishing and teleporting and etc etc, whilst riding around on alien panther ghosts, despite that being the most glaring piece of nightmare.
HELP ME UNDERSTAND ZOS / ESO COMMUNITY. HELP ME FIND PEACE
(((((((((0
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Llilium✭✭✭also this is aimed at the idea of the "one tamriel" aspect being added for gameplay purposes.
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Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is canon.
Is that the end of the thread? Yea... I think that's it.
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!3 -
wayfarerx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It is canon.
Is that the end of the thread? Yea... I think that's it.
This.
And for all the stuff that doesn't make sense... dragonbreak.
Done and done.@wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion1 -
Mavi✭✭Everything is canon in the second era since there is no official register of what happened in the three banner war. Also you did not destroyed Molag Bal you scratched him (thing is, if you're a daedric prince a scratch from a mortal seems very terrifying).1
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Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We need to know when to separate game mechanics from lore.
And this game is canon. For good and for bad.Edited by Abeille on June 13, 2016 9:46PMJust so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭One good thing to get in your head is that on the multiplayer level, you are not the chosen hero. This is a pretty much universal thing on an RP level. It is safe to say that everything the Soul-Shriven Hero did was canon, just not your canon. The hero of the Soul Burst is canon.
The war is between lands and their people, not races. Every race inhabits just about every corner of tamriel, but a bosmer born in Highrock is more Breton than bosmer in culture. They would be Covenant. Banners War would be canon.
Spells and skills are canon. The only cavet there is that there is no 'sun magic', dragonknights are a joke to lore, and all classes could use all magic in the TES world.
To repeat, the Soul-Shriven hero actually goes to the other factions, when talking about lore there is only one Soul Shriven. From the perspective of RPers (those that care for lore) you are NOT the Soul-Shriven Hero. The closest you could reasonably see yourself is one of the many Soul-Shriven that could have escaped after Varen and the Hero (this was a point form someone else on these forums, not my own).
It is pretty easy to figure out what is canon. Most of all the story is, but most of it is done by the Soul-Shriven Hero, not everyone.2 -
Shazgob✭✭✭Dragonbreak. It's the reason everything respawns, there are multiple (thousands) of vestiges running around fighting off Molag Bal, and why books and other lore items appear in this game even though they haven't been created yet.
All timelines are one because of mortals mingling in divine affairs (imo, Mannimarco was the one who caused the Dragonbreak, not the vestige)-- past, present, and future are all one. The proof is in The Lusty Argonian Mage, written in the 3rd era, it can be found in Ayleid ruins, why? All timelines are one.
This game is canon however, start to finish. Just like other Scrolls games, if it can't be explained logically within the boundaries of the lore, it's because: Dragonbreak.
SPOILERS BELOW
(Also, Dragonbreaks occur in all games: Daggerfall has many different endings, all are canon and happen because of the break. Morrowind has the reincarnated Indoril Nerevar destroy the Heart of Lorkhan, dragonbreak. Oblivion has the emperor die, gates spewing daedra out, Mehrunes Dagon walking and destroying the Imperial City, and Akatosh coming to stop him, dragonbreak. Skyrim? You as a mortal travel into Sovengarde to stop the acclaimed first born of Akatosh in martial combat, and bear in mind, all the Divines are portrayed/believed to be Dragons, meaning you essentially killed an ancient Demi-God, dragonbreak.
It's the scapegoat
) <Malacath's Trousers>
Guild Master and Trouser King
-Veteran Maw of Lorkhaj: 50,000+
Champion Rank - 700
50 StamsOrc Flawless Conqueror and Master Angler
50 Altmer Healplar
50 Argonian Stamblade Ganker
50 Breton Magicka Nightblade DPS
50 Bosmer Stamina Templar DPS
50 Khajiit Dragonknight DPS0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭"Dragonbreak" is just another word for "game mechanics.""As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?2 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »"Dragonbreak" is just another word for "game mechanics."
Which is one of the reasons why it is a bad excuse that bothers me every time it is used.
We just need to be able to separate what is a game mechanic and what is actual lore. That's all. We don't need to use "dragonbreak" as an excuse for game mechanics, we just need to understand that game mechanics are not necessarily part of the lore.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.2 -
C0wrex✭✭✭✭First time I fought a Deadric prince - mano e mano. Pretty badass stuff right there!
Oh and it's canon!"We are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek and not to yield."
-Tennyson, Ulysses0 -
Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »"Dragonbreak" is just another word for "game mechanics."
Which is one of the reasons why it is a bad excuse that bothers me every time it is used.
We just need to be able to separate what is a game mechanic and what is actual lore. That's all. We don't need to use "dragonbreak" as an excuse for game mechanics, we just need to understand that game mechanics are not necessarily part of the lore.
In my opinion "DragonBreak" shouldn't even be an excuse.https://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah2 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dragonbreak. It's the reason everything respawns, there are multiple (thousands) of vestiges running around fighting off Molag Bal, and why books and other lore items appear in this game even though they haven't been created yet.
All timelines are one because of mortals mingling in divine affairs (imo, Mannimarco was the one who caused the Dragonbreak, not the vestige)-- past, present, and future are all one. The proof is in The Lusty Argonian Mage, written in the 3rd era, it can be found in Ayleid ruins, why? All timelines are one.
This game is canon however, start to finish. Just like other Scrolls games, if it can't be explained logically within the boundaries of the lore, it's because: Dragonbreak.
SPOILERS BELOW
(Also, Dragonbreaks occur in all games: Daggerfall has many different endings, all are canon and happen because of the break. Morrowind has the reincarnated Indoril Nerevar destroy the Heart of Lorkhan, dragonbreak. Oblivion has the emperor die, gates spewing daedra out, Mehrunes Dagon walking and destroying the Imperial City, and Akatosh coming to stop him, dragonbreak. Skyrim? You as a mortal travel into Sovengarde to stop the acclaimed first born of Akatosh in martial combat, and bear in mind, all the Divines are portrayed/believed to be Dragons, meaning you essentially killed an ancient Demi-God, dragonbreak.
It's the scapegoat)
Oh god... that terrible thing pops it head up here.
Dragon Breaks are a thing, but I remember that signature spam... None of the reasons are good.0 -
Abeille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Whatzituyah wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »"Dragonbreak" is just another word for "game mechanics."
Which is one of the reasons why it is a bad excuse that bothers me every time it is used.
We just need to be able to separate what is a game mechanic and what is actual lore. That's all. We don't need to use "dragonbreak" as an excuse for game mechanics, we just need to understand that game mechanics are not necessarily part of the lore.
In my opinion "DragonBreak" shouldn't even be an excuse.
I agree with this so much, you have no idea. It is such a boring excuse.Just so that everyone knows, my Altmer still can't have black hair. About a dozen of Altmer NPCs in the game have black hair. Just saying.
Meet my characters:Command: Do the thing.
Zadarri, Khajiit Fist of Thalmor: The thing was done, as commanded.
Durza gra-Maghul, Orc blacksmith: The thing was done perfectly, in the most efficient way.
Tegwen, Bosmer troublemaker: You can't prove I didn't do the thing.
Sings-Many-Songs, Argonian fisher: Sure, I'll do the thing... Eventually. Maybe.
Aerindel, Altmer stormcaller: After extensive research, I've come to the conclusion that doing the thing would be a waste of resources.
Liliel, Dunmer pyromancer: Aerindel said I shouldn't do the thing. Something about "resources".
Gyda Snowcaller, Nord cryomancer: I will find a way to do it that won't waste resources and make Aerindel proud of me.
Beatrice Leoriane, Breton vampire: I persuaded someone else into doing the thing. You are welcome, dear.
Sahima, Redguard performer: Doing the thing sounds awfully unpleasant and really not my problem.
Ellaria Valerius, Imperial priestess: I'll pray to the Eight for the thing to be done, if it is Their will.1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »"Dragonbreak" is just another word for "game mechanics."
Which is one of the reasons why it is a bad excuse that bothers me every time it is used.
We just need to be able to separate what is a game mechanic and what is actual lore. That's all. We don't need to use "dragonbreak" as an excuse for game mechanics, we just need to understand that game mechanics are not necessarily part of the lore.
I agree completely."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Whatzituyah wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »"Dragonbreak" is just another word for "game mechanics."
Which is one of the reasons why it is a bad excuse that bothers me every time it is used.
We just need to be able to separate what is a game mechanic and what is actual lore. That's all. We don't need to use "dragonbreak" as an excuse for game mechanics, we just need to understand that game mechanics are not necessarily part of the lore.
In my opinion "DragonBreak" shouldn't even be an excuse.
It really shouldn't. Like, Dragonbreak is an actual thing in the lore, but it doesn't apply to every seemingly strange thing you encounter.
It gets thrown around way too often."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
C0wrex✭✭✭✭Mmmm Dragon Breaks!"We are not now that strength which in old days moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will, to strive, to seek and not to yield."
-Tennyson, Ulysses0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
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Hear hear! Dragon breaks are a great concept, but they don't explain everything and shouldn't be used as a scapegoat. There are only three (possibly four) known dragon breaks in history, and if you consider the magnitude of the effects those had on the world, hopefully one would think twice about using that phrase haphazardly. There is a theorised fifth instance, but that is speculatory at best over whether it is actually a dragon break or not.ShedsHisTail wrote: »
It really shouldn't. Like, Dragonbreak is an actual thing in the lore, but it doesn't apply to every seemingly strange thing you encounter.Whatzituyah wrote: »
In my opinion "DragonBreak" shouldn't even be an excuse.
Which is one of the reasons why it is a bad excuse that bothers me every time it is used.ShedsHisTail wrote: »"Dragonbreak" is just another word for "game mechanics."
We just need to be able to separate what is a game mechanic and what is actual lore. That's all. We don't need to use "dragonbreak" as an excuse for game mechanics, we just need to understand that game mechanics are not necessarily part of the lore.
It gets thrown around way too often.
The Middle Dawn
The Maruhkati Selective attempted to exorcise Auriel from Akatosh, and in doing so, brought about a resurgence of the Dawn Era, where things were done and undone, made and unmade, then undone and made again, in a temporal fluidity with only one chronometric constant - the fall of eight stars from the heavens.
The Warp in the West
This is the one that consolidated all six endings of Daggerfall into one event so that there was a stable history for Morrowind. This is my personal all-time-favourite retcon, but is also the basis for throwing the dragon break theory around wildly for anything else that is vaguely temporally inconsistent. The basis of this dragon break is that, in order to complete the story of Daggerfall, the Agent had to enter Aetherius to retrieve the Mantella, and mortals aren't supposed to enter Aetherius. That was the "starting point" of the break; the "ending point" was the destruction of Numidium, as the Mantella is destroyed then as well.
The Numidium Effect
This one is reverse-implied from the Warp in the West, since it also involves Numidium and the Mantella. Tiber Septim uses Numidium to conquer Tamriel, and the Mantella is blasted into Aetherius as a result. The "period" of the dragon break here is likely to be between the initial creation of the Mantella, and the point where it is blasted into Aetherius. The result of the dragon break is the end of the Aldmeri Dominion and the beginning of the Third Empire, bringing peace to Tamriel.
The Disappearance of the Dwarves
Considering it's long-term implications, its involvement of Numidium and the Heart of Lorkhan, and the numerous conflicting reports of the event, the Battle of Red Mountain is often considered a dragon break as well, with the Dwemer disappearing into it.
Tid-Ahraan
This is the theorised fifth occurrence of a dragon break, and is the one that resulted in Alduin being ejected from Time at the end of the Dragon War. It is potentially considered a dragon break because of its use of an Elder Scroll and the fact that it resulted in a tear in Time.
With regards to the endings of the other games; there's no need to shout dragon break when the Heart of Lorkhan is destroyed, as Time doesn't break down and Akatosh doesn't get involved. At the end of Oblivion, Akatosh does get involved, but he doesn't get broken and neither does Time, so no dragon break occurs then either. The end of Skyrim involves you entering Aetherius, so this could conceivably result in a dragon break just like it did for Daggerfall, and it would go some way to consolidating the fact that the Skyrim Civil War can be won for either side. But since there has been no TES 6 yet, that's speculation at best.
Now let's consider ESO. Is there anything in ESO that needs a "dragon break" explanation, that can't be explained by anything else? Not really.
Multiple Heroes
This isn't an issue. From your perspective, and the perspective of the world, you are the Hero, the one and only Vestige (why do you think the Main Quest is forced solo?), and the one and only Alliance Champion. Everyone else is A. N. Adventurer, an incidental character who you happened across along the way. No dragon breaks required.
OP's Game Mechanics
500 million people blowing fire and growing spikes is fine. Anyone can learn spells in Elder Scrolls. People vanishing and teleporting is also fine. Teleportation spells are a known division of the School of Mysticism. Some of the mounts they have created are borderline-questionable, but moreso with regards to how we have been able to tame them, rather than their existence in the first place.
Playing for The Enemy
Due to the changes coming with One Tamriel, the fact that you are a member of one alliance going to help another will require a retcon from the previous explanation. The most conceivable retcon is that, while playing in another alliance you are either:
a) Independent, and not a member of any faction outside of PvP, allowing you to fight for anyone indiscriminately.
b) Playing a "Spinner story" type of affair created by Meridia or some other divine intervention (I really like this idea @Abeille), where your actions within the other alliances are "things that happened" even if they occur outside of your primary timeline. Spinner stories affecting the wider world are canon without dragon breaks being involved.
Books from the wrong time period
This is Hermaeus Mora's fault, not the result of a dragon break.
Respawning Enemies
For the most part, this isn't an issue. Creatures move in to places when the previous inhabitants are killed. The only issue then is bosses. Put this down to a gameplay mechanic that doesn't need explanation, as there is no need for anyone to visit such a place more than once anyway. But consider that they did actually bother to include some lore for this in one dungeon; Rubble Butte, where you have to recover a book on the Middle Dawn dragon break for a quest, is stuck in a time loop, directly explaining why the bosses keep respawning.Edited by Enodoc on June 14, 2016 12:53PMUESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
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