CP CAP increase

Anazasi

Its time to up the numbers from 501 to 603 wouldn't you all agree./.....

Gidorick

How about a smaller increase... but more frequently?

ReaX

yes pls 1 cp per day increase

rotaugen454

You'll get the people who did a lot of grinding to agree that they want a large advantage, but I've noticed that the majority of players are not at my CP level. This power creep is what will keep people from starting.

Nebthet78

With the CP system the way it is, there is ALWAYS going to be a power creep, no matter what they do. Any new player coming in is ALWAYS going to have to play catch up. That is something that they are going to just have to suck up, as a player coming into an MMO that have been live for over 2years. But the bonus is, those that are below the cap have the catch-up mechanic where they can gain CP extremely quickly both with and without being enlightened. That makes a huge difference!

Elvent

Sheesh I'm having a hech of a long time just trying to catch up and cap my CP....317 so far, took a few months and still trying and using scrolls and always trying to do it while enlightened is active. At this rate another month I will probably finally be capped..... or two months...

Nestor

I looked this weekend at the listings of my Guilds. A rough Estimate is 10% to 20% of the players are at the Cap, based on the guilds I am in. I am not in any PvP or Trials Guilds, those may have a higher percentage. As for the players who are not at the Cap? Most of them are not over 300CPs right now. There is no urgency from a population stand point to increase the cap.

As much as I would like an increase myself, it is more to spend the points than any inherent need for more power. Mobs are Melting just fine as it stands right now. There is no real urgency from the Player Power aspect to increase the cap.

So, raising the cap is fine, but the first question to be asked, is why and the second is, what benefit would it bring to the player base as a whole?

At this time, it would only serve to increase the gap between players.

HoolDog

People should be allowed to use earned progression. It has to have a significant jump... 2 none increases now, at this rate people will never be allowed to allocate all of the CP earned.

We have none CP campaigns for players that want to fight against the higher CP players.

CP is so easy to farm now... I came late to this game plus had a lengthy break after failing to learn / understand the game and because of the catch up mechanic I have overtaken friends that brought me to this game, friends that were in the game from release... And I have limited game time as a family man.

Lack of progression and end game content kills games for people... Final fantasy 14 died this way for me.

Raise the Cap!

TheTraveler

I agree - raise the cap! I only started playing in January, and I have... let's see, about 5 CP 561 toons already, and some more busy getting there, so it's not that hard.

In the guilds I belong to, about 60-70% of the players that I see online every day, are at cap.

A cap raise would be very welcome for PVE, for doing vet trials, and vet DLC Undaunted dungeons.

rotaugen454

I look around and see only a small percentage at cap no matter what zone I am in. I have 691 CP and would benefit, but don't think it is necessary. Wouldn't they have to adjust difficulty upwards, making it even harder for lower ranked players? I can solo a lot of supposed group dungeons as it is.

JD2013

Necromancy!

The Worm Cult is at it again!

And they raise CP caps with updates. Since there won't be another update until around March 2017, y'all are gonna have to be patient

Anazasi

Player levels and monster levels are all Dynamic Adjusting cap should not force any issues with the game. Remember NPC level is 160 most players are already 500 or better. What players should be concerned with is the incoming drop sets. What will happen when monster levels scale up does that mean gear scales up as well and omg the farming will never end.

In light of this eventuality RNG needs to be heavily looked at and dare I say please please please remove the crap traits or at least cut the chance of getting them in half. We are all tired of countless hours of farming because of them.

Anazasi

Updates are quarterly. Should be another around December.

SickDuck

I just hope they will go for 600 and not trolling us with 591 in the next update.

Mush55

Think zos dug them selves into a bit of hole with this one, well over the cp cap , already have the bis for my class the only way I can go forward is to go horizontal when zos allow me to spend my cp.............

VinyParsley2016

Anazasi wrote: »

Its time to up the numbers from 501 to 603 wouldn't you all agree./.....

No! Increase to 701! Then, lets kick all CP501 guys in vet Dungeon cuz their cp are too low

Taleof2Cities

I support a CP cap increase ...

I don't support another complaint thread about it ...

andreasranasen

TBH i rather have them increase the amount of points we can allocate into each tree I wanna have 180 points in bastion. My shields will be strong as hell lol

TheTraveler

Anazasi wrote: »

Player levels and monster levels are all Dynamic Adjusting cap should not force any issues with the game. Remember NPC level is 160 most players are already 500 or better. What players should be concerned with is the incoming drop sets. What will happen when monster levels scale up does that mean gear scales up as well and omg the farming will never end.

In light of this eventuality RNG needs to be heavily looked at and dare I say please please please remove the crap traits or at least cut the chance of getting them in half. We are all tired of countless hours of farming because of them.

Hear! Hear! I am sooooooo tired of get prosperous and training pieces... It's bad enough getting medium armor in mag sets or light armor for stam sets, etc. - getting those traits to boot is just painful. I realize they would probably have to keep 9 traits for the crafting system, but can't they think up anything better than prosperous - honestly? Probably wrong thread for this tho...

Seido_Tensei_

Nestor wrote: »

I looked this weekend at the listings of my Guilds. A rough Estimate is 10% to 20% of the players are at the Cap, based on the guilds I am in. I am not in any PvP or Trials Guilds, those may have a higher percentage. As for the players who are not at the Cap? Most of them are not over 300CPs right now. There is no urgency from a population stand point to increase the cap.

As much as I would like an increase myself, it is more to spend the points than any inherent need for more power. Mobs are Melting just fine as it stands right now. There is no real urgency from the Player Power aspect to increase the cap.

So, raising the cap is fine, but the first question to be asked, is why and the second is, what benefit would it bring to the player base as a whole?

At this time, it would only serve to increase the gap between players.

@Nestor As to the question of Why?:

- Player progression for those who are currently at the cap (e.g. access to champion tree passives etc.)
- Those that solo, increased CP will allow them to complete content easier.
- More players able to participate and complete Veteran Hard-mode Trials (most casual players do not have the gear to effectively clear end game veteran trials. Raising the CP cap can help players with sub par gear complete the trials they need for end game gear without a ton of gold / re-crafting.) Higher CP makes content easier and vet trials remain inaccessible to a lot of people who would like to complete them.

What benefits would it bring to the player base as a whole:

Much of what is above, in addition to motivate competitive players to engage and complete high exp activities. (why is this a bad thing?)



I think the bigger question we should be asking is:

What issue is the cap currently solving?

If we assume an increase in champion points only exacerbates the gap between players, this "gap" between players was originally mentioned in terms of PVP where high CP players clearly had an advantage. With the introduction of "No CP" campaigns, new and casual players have an environment they can PVP without any potential imbalance.

Will the players currently at the lower end of the CP gap ever catch up in a meaningful time frame to the players at the top?

I would argue the catch up mechanic as it currently stands can allow anyone to hit the cap in 3-4 months of average playing for those who complete high exp activities (e.g. at least 1 DLC release cycle to go from CP 160-561). So if you farm all day and never complete content, why should we have to wait for you?

Should new players who play casually / sparingly be able to catch up to hardcore players?

My opinion is no....those that want to catch up can do so with ease, those that don't are playing the game differently and should not be considered when evaluating the CP cap.


Conclusion: PVP is handled by no CP campaigns, PVE will only be made more accessible. So again, what problem is the cap solving?

Nestor

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

Conclusion: PVP is handled by no CP campaigns, PVE will only be made more accessible. So again, what problem is the cap solving?

@Seido_Tensei_

First, my post was from 5 months ago, the CP creep upwards has increased for everyone. And, we just got out of a second Exp Doubling Event. And, we have had two cap increases since I posted this.

However, to address your question in the context of my answer at the time I made it:

When you have most people significantly below a cap, increasing the cap only serves to increase the power spread between the top and the bottom/middle of the group, this does not help the group. This is what the Cap Serves. It also forces, or should force a diversity of game play as we can't max out all the constellations and make ourselves a jack of all trades. But the Sheeple and the Meta still funnel everyone into two or three cookie cutter builds for the game.

Now, if the cap is increased, lets say on a population where most are near or at the cap, what does it accomplish? Let me use NASCAR racing as an analogy. People were asking about changing out carburetors for fuel injection a while back (NASCAR has since made this change for Fuel Economy reasons). The governing body said, "We have racers running door to door three cars wide right now, we give everyone fuel injection, guess what, we will still have racers running door to door three cars wide after everyone spent all that money adding the equipment."

Games are the same way, you raise the cap, everyone increases their allocation to the new cap and then everyone is still the same, just throwing larger numbers around. The game play does not alter at it's core. So, at the time I made the post, it would make no sense to raise the cap as those at the cap would not see any real change, as compared to others that are at the cap, and would only distance themselves further from the mean or median of the population. So, no change to base game play for those at the cap, and those below the cap would just feel less capable and powerful.

Now, once this event is over and I can see how many people around me are at or near the cap, my views on increasing the cap may change. However, what improvements to game play are going to come about because everyone can throw larger numbers at each other, and resist larger numbers being thrown at them? So, we pretty much end up at the same place we were at before the cap was raised.

So, should ZOS raise the cap again? Probably as the population may now support it. Will the game be any better for it? Probably not. It did not get any better with the last two cap increases.

And, ZOS should probably wait for all these new sets to be farmed and equipped and used with statistics gathered before increasing the CP cap again. Hopefully the new gear sets can introduce some new diversity. And, with the ability to run 2 complete 5 piece sets, plus a full Monster set, we have in essence a Cap Increase brought about by the last update. It was just not with CP's. But, stats and power have increased far more than another 30 CPs would bring about.

Balance issues may very well get thrown out the window with the new gear sets. Why make that worse?

SickDuck

VinyParsley2016 wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Its time to up the numbers from 501 to 603 wouldn't you all agree./.....

No! Increase to 701! Then, lets kick all CP501 guys in vet Dungeon cuz their cp are too low

You can do that already. With these double xp events and the reduced amount of xp needed per cp, half of them are noobs anyway.

Seido_Tensei_

@Nestor My bad, saw the recent responses and didn't realize this was a necroed thread. My apologies for responding to something 5+ months old.

But to be honest, you didn't address my comments or question at all in your last response:

Yes I get having a cap should technically "increase build diversity" but lets be honest. Having maxed CP (3600) would not change build diversity one bit in the current game. Players will do as they do now and build they way they want. The only requirements we have for "builds" is that healers are only considered healers if they have a heal, tanks can only be a tank if they have a taunt. Other than that there is no part of theory crafting that was be negatively affected by removing the CP cap.

Increasing build diversity isn't connected to CP. In the current meta, many people are opting for 4 DD to clear veteran dungeon content because a dedicated healing / tanking is not always necessary. Many builds can already fill multiple roles.

So any limiting of build diversity can be attributed to other game mechanics as builds are already limited to a few viable configurations in the current game in spite of the CP cap.

@Nestor I also agree nothing much changes with increased CP except for larger numbers, but character progression is important to keeping a game interesting. If the larger numbers don't actually change anything, why not let us have our larger numbers?

Nestor

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

But to be honest, you didn't address my comments or question at all in your last response:

Yes I get having a cap should technically "increase build diversity" but lets be honest. Having maxed CP (3600) would not change build diversity one bit in the current game.

Well, I kind of did:

Nestor wrote: »

[This is what the Cap Serves. It also forces, or should force a diversity of game play as we can't max out all the constellations and make ourselves a jack of all trades. But the Sheeple and the Meta still funnel everyone into two or three cookie cutter builds for the game.

@Seido_Tensei_

Did you play on the PTS back when we cold allocated all 3600 CPs on the Templates? It was a sneeze the mobs down and take no damage while doing so even if we were naked kind of thing. Yes, I am exaggerating slightly. But taking on the old Lower Craglorn Wasps solo with a white mob loot staff was kind of weird. Right now, I have a completely different CP Allocation for my Healer than I do my Tank and on my DPS, and even then the DPS's are different, similar but different enough.

Character progression comes in many forms, and having a 3600CP Cap is not one of them. Because there is no character progression with 3600CPs, just have a Healing Staff along with a weapon on your bars and you can do every role with one character. We are not progressing our characters, we are just wearing different weapons. New gear sets did not matter. No matter what I wore, it all died in front of me with little to no effort on my part.

Now, we have to pick and choose our constellations to go with the gear and class and play style (and I am ignoring the Min/Maxer Sheeple here). The progression is building a character within the limitations imposed upon us. We may not get bigger numbers each month, but we can find different ways to do things, and maybe counter the Min/Max Meta.

If you think about it, having limits on the CPs makes the overall game better, because we have to figure out ways to do things withing the limits of the game. Every classic game that has been around for hundreds of years have specific rules in place to limit game play and it makes for a better game. Chess would not be the game that it is if every piece could move like the Queen Does. If you could play Monopoly and just carry into the game 100,000's of thousands of Monopoly Money, would that game be any better just because you had no limits on what you could buy, and could weather landing on Broadway with Hotels on each circuit of the board? No. Every game that is popular has rules and limitations. Would Soccer be the game that it is if people could pick the ball up with their hands and run with it? Adding in the ability to use the player's hands would be a cap increase too, and it would not make for a better game. I have played this game without caps on the PTS, it is not fun. All Bosses are YOLO run in and spam an attack.

So, I am all in favor of Caps because it makes the game better. What the cap should be is a different discussion entirely. And, since neither you or I have access to the metrics, all we can do is talk about it academically.

Rune_Relic

STOP!
Before we continue...what exactly would you accomplish with more CP than you already have ?
Other than just melting stuff quicker...and making the power gap even bigger.

Will this make the content more challenging and less boring ?

Nestor

Rune_Relic wrote: »

STOP!
Before we continue...what exactly would you accomplish with more CP than you already have ?

@Rune_Relic

That is the question right there that needs to be answered.

rotaugen454

Rune_Relic wrote: »

STOP!
Before we continue...what exactly would you accomplish with more CP than you already have ?
Other than just melting stuff quicker...and making the power gap even bigger.

Will this make the content more challenging and less boring ?

You mean other than gaining an even bigger advantage in PvP against lower CP players? Yes, there is a no CP campaign (and I have a maxed out CP character running around in it), but they couldn't fit all the lower CP characters into it. You know that you don't see 95% of the population as maxed CP in the other campaigns. You'll say skill means more and you will beat them regardless. If that is true, then why widen the gap even further?

Danksta

Seido_Tensei_ wrote: »

@Nestor My bad, saw the recent responses and didn't realize this was a necroed thread. My apologies for responding to something 5+ months old.

But to be honest, you didn't address my comments or question at all in your last response:

Yes I get having a cap should technically "increase build diversity" but lets be honest. Having maxed CP (3600) would not change build diversity one bit in the current game. Players will do as they do now and build they way they want. The only requirements we have for "builds" is that healers are only considered healers if they have a heal, tanks can only be a tank if they have a taunt. Other than that there is no part of theory crafting that was be negatively affected by removing the CP cap.

Increasing build diversity isn't connected to CP. In the current meta, many people are opting for 4 DD to clear veteran dungeon content because a dedicated healing / tanking is not always necessary. Many builds can already fill multiple roles.

So any limiting of build diversity can be attributed to other game mechanics as builds are already limited to a few viable configurations in the current game in spite of the CP cap.

@Nestor I also agree nothing much changes with increased CP except for larger numbers, but character progression is important to keeping a game interesting. If the larger numbers don't actually change anything, why not let us have our larger numbers?

Do you want to fight players in Cyrodiil with 1500+ CPs!? No, I didn't think so. Neither does anyone else.