Complaints regarding the removal of level restrictions

ParaNostram

Seriously you guys? This is a great thing, why are you complaining? Now you can do whatever content you want at whatever level you want. Don't feel like questing in location X? Feel free to wander over to location Y! I remember in Beta people were complaining (rightfully) about how the leveled zones forced you to do certain content at certain levels and in a specified order. This ruins the feeling of paying a TES game. Well, now that isn't the case! You can just pick a direction and go off on an adventure, it seems quite the fun choice!

That being said, the complaints regarding making factions useless need to be addressed. Here is how I see it. This is an issue for the RP community which the RP community would understand why you wouldn't just up and move factions willy nilly, so they wouldn't. It essentially becomes a non issue there, they will have loyalty to their faction. Non RPers, well, do you really care about the lore that much, or do you like just having content to do?

PvPers? Well, okay you guys have valid complaints if you just don't want to rub against players of the other faction, except you do this all of the time. A good number of players have characters in every faction. So congratulation DC//EP//AD purists, you're still rubbing shoulders with enemy colors.

I see this as purely a good thing, implementing some more Elder Scrolls feel into this Online game. I know I'm looking forward to just questing as I feel like doing so, making me actually enjoy questing again.

DDuke

Sure, this game could use more paths when it comes to the leveling experience. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

They could've done away with the alliance restrictions, kept Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon as options for all characters. Instead, they went the route that destroyed Skyrim & Oblivion - level scaling.

What do any of those options & choices of where you level matter, if that "leveling" has no real, meaningful purpose? Where is the sense of danger & what do I have to look forward to as a new player, if I can just do everything right away?

The moment you step out of Coldharbour, your character is a demigod capable of defeating every boss & monster in Tamriel. Yay?

Well, you are entitled to your opinions - but don't call it "Elder Scrolls feel", it couldn't be further from that.

"Elder Scrolls feel" is that moment you arrive in a boat in Seyda Neen - it's a wild, dangerous world and you don't know what to expect. You wander into a nearby cave.... and then run like the wind (well, not really because you didn't level up your athletics yet) as high level bandits chase you. Determined, you decide to come back later and destroy those bandits.

That's the Elder Scrolls feel - never knowing what you find in a location. Is it a dangerous area you'll have to revisit later? Or is it a bunch of battle-leveled bandits that you beat by bashing your face on keyboard before moving on to the next cave with the same battle-leveled bandits & another meaningless gaming experience.

Volkodav

ParaNostram wrote: »

Seriously you guys? This is a great thing, why are you complaining? Now you can do whatever content you want at whatever level you want. Don't feel like questing in location X? Feel free to wander over to location Y! I remember in Beta people were complaining (rightfully) about how the leveled zones forced you to do certain content at certain levels and in a specified order. This ruins the feeling of paying a TES game. Well, now that isn't the case! You can just pick a direction and go off on an adventure, it seems quite the fun choice!

That being said, the complaints regarding making factions useless need to be addressed. Here is how I see it. This is an issue for the RP community which the RP community would understand why you wouldn't just up and move factions willy nilly, so they wouldn't. It essentially becomes a non issue there, they will have loyalty to their faction. Non RPers, well, do you really care about the lore that much, or do you like just having content to do?

PvPers? Well, okay you guys have valid complaints if you just don't want to rub against players of the other faction, except you do this all of the time. A good number of players have characters in every faction. So congratulation DC//EP//AD purists, you're still rubbing shoulders with enemy colors.

I see this as purely a good thing, implementing some more Elder Scrolls feel into this Online game. I know I'm looking forward to just questing as I feel like doing so, making me actually enjoy questing again.

I agree with you 100%!

THEDKEXPERIENCE

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, this game could use more paths when it comes to the leveling experience. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

They could've done away with the alliance restrictions, kept Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon as options for all characters. Instead, they went the route that destroyed Skyrim & Oblivion - level scaling.

What do any of those options & choices of where you level matter, if that "leveling" has no real, meaningful purpose? Where is the sense of danger & what do I have to look forward to as a new player, if I can just do everything right away?

The moment you step out of Coldharbour, your character is a demigod capable of defeating every boss & monster in Tamriel. Yay?

Well, you are entitled to your opinions - but don't call it "Elder Scrolls feel", it couldn't be further from that.

"Elder Scrolls feel" is that moment you arrive in a boat in Seyda Neen - it's a wild, dangerous world and you don't know what to expect. You wander into a nearby cave.... and then run like the wind (well, not really because you didn't level up your athletics yet) as high level bandits chase you. Determined, you decide to come back later and destroy those bandits.

That's the Elder Scrolls feel - never knowing what you find in a location. Is it a dangerous area you'll have to revisit later? Or is it a bunch of battle-leveled bandits that you beat by bashing your face on keyboard before moving on to the next cave with the same battle-leveled bandits & another meaningless gaming experience.

This is nonsense. Go make a level 3 alt today, and take him to Wrothgar. Come back and tell me how much of a demigod you feel like.

I did this a few weeks ago. The difference is that you can probably survive a fight, maybe, versus getting insta-killed.

ParaNostram

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, this game could use more paths when it comes to the leveling experience. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

They could've done away with the alliance restrictions, kept Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon as options for all characters. Instead, they went the route that destroyed Skyrim & Oblivion - level scaling.

What do any of those options & choices of where you level matter, if that "leveling" has no real, meaningful purpose? Where is the sense of danger & what do I have to look forward to as a new player, if I can just do everything right away?

The moment you step out of Coldharbour, your character is a demigod capable of defeating every boss & monster in Tamriel. Yay?

Well, you are entitled to your opinions - but don't call it "Elder Scrolls feel", it couldn't be further from that.

"Elder Scrolls feel" is that moment you arrive in a boat in Seyda Neen - it's a wild, dangerous world and you don't know what to expect. You wander into a nearby cave.... and then run like the wind (well, not really because you didn't level up your athletics yet) as high level bandits chase you. Determined, you decide to come back later and destroy those bandits.

That's the Elder Scrolls feel - never knowing what you find in a location. Is it a dangerous area you'll have to revisit later? Or is it a bunch of battle-leveled bandits that you beat by bashing your face on keyboard before moving on to the next cave with the same battle-leveled bandits & another meaningless gaming experience.

Elder Scrolls feel is being able to go in whatever direction you want and gradually over time grow more powerful as you adventure. A lvl 1 and a VR16 are not the same in power, even if there's scaling. Access to better equipment, abilities, more skill points, etc. There is a clear difference but now there won't be some arbitrary "don't go this way your Disneyland tour is supposed to go here first!"

For the record, your Morrowind comparrison is wrong. I killed those bandits when I first played, as I saw it was a challenge, decided I would not be stopped, and I figured out how to push through. The game doesn't dictate the path I take, I choose my path. Live another life, play the way you choose, these options are now finally properly available in the questing side of ESO.

DDuke

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, this game could use more paths when it comes to the leveling experience. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

They could've done away with the alliance restrictions, kept Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon as options for all characters. Instead, they went the route that destroyed Skyrim & Oblivion - level scaling.

What do any of those options & choices of where you level matter, if that "leveling" has no real, meaningful purpose? Where is the sense of danger & what do I have to look forward to as a new player, if I can just do everything right away?

The moment you step out of Coldharbour, your character is a demigod capable of defeating every boss & monster in Tamriel. Yay?

Well, you are entitled to your opinions - but don't call it "Elder Scrolls feel", it couldn't be further from that.

"Elder Scrolls feel" is that moment you arrive in a boat in Seyda Neen - it's a wild, dangerous world and you don't know what to expect. You wander into a nearby cave.... and then run like the wind (well, not really because you didn't level up your athletics yet) as high level bandits chase you. Determined, you decide to come back later and destroy those bandits.

That's the Elder Scrolls feel - never knowing what you find in a location. Is it a dangerous area you'll have to revisit later? Or is it a bunch of battle-leveled bandits that you beat by bashing your face on keyboard before moving on to the next cave with the same battle-leveled bandits & another meaningless gaming experience.

This is nonsense. Go make a level 3 alt today, and take him to Wrothgar. Come back and tell me how much of a demigod you feel like.

I did this a few weeks ago. The difference is that you can probably survive a fight, maybe, versus getting insta-killed.

So basically your reply is "this is nonsense". Good argument, you've totally convinced me.

I could make a level 3 character & go to Wrothgar and complete every single quest in the zone, but sadly I don't feel like spending 1,5k crowns for another character slot.

Korah_Eaglecry

ParaNostram wrote: »

Seriously you guys? This is a great thing, why are you complaining? Now you can do whatever content you want at whatever level you want. Don't feel like questing in location X? Feel free to wander over to location Y! I remember in Beta people were complaining (rightfully) about how the leveled zones forced you to do certain content at certain levels and in a specified order. This ruins the feeling of paying a TES game. Well, now that isn't the case! You can just pick a direction and go off on an adventure, it seems quite the fun choice!

That being said, the complaints regarding making factions useless need to be addressed. Here is how I see it. This is an issue for the RP community which the RP community would understand why you wouldn't just up and move factions willy nilly, so they wouldn't. It essentially becomes a non issue there, they will have loyalty to their faction. Non RPers, well, do you really care about the lore that much, or do you like just having content to do?

PvPers? Well, okay you guys have valid complaints if you just don't want to rub against players of the other faction, except you do this all of the time. A good number of players have characters in every faction. So congratulation DC//EP//AD purists, you're still rubbing shoulders with enemy colors.

I see this as purely a good thing, implementing some more Elder Scrolls feel into this Online game. I know I'm looking forward to just questing as I feel like doing so, making me actually enjoy questing again.

1.) Because they have nothing else to complain about at this very moment. Most people come here for the drama and get a kick out of the negativity.
2.) It wasnt that big of an announcement. All he told us was how many accounts of the game there are and that theyre dropping barriers. A lot of people tuned in for something anything that might shed like on the next two quarters. Some people might not seem all that impressed by this since it doesnt affect their max level characters.
3.) PvPers are going to complain about anything that isnt PvP related.
4.) Endgamers are going to complain about anything that isnt Endgame related.


The list can probably go on and on. But people will always find something to complain about.

ParaNostram

DDuke wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, this game could use more paths when it comes to the leveling experience. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

They could've done away with the alliance restrictions, kept Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon as options for all characters. Instead, they went the route that destroyed Skyrim & Oblivion - level scaling.

What do any of those options & choices of where you level matter, if that "leveling" has no real, meaningful purpose? Where is the sense of danger & what do I have to look forward to as a new player, if I can just do everything right away?

The moment you step out of Coldharbour, your character is a demigod capable of defeating every boss & monster in Tamriel. Yay?

Well, you are entitled to your opinions - but don't call it "Elder Scrolls feel", it couldn't be further from that.

"Elder Scrolls feel" is that moment you arrive in a boat in Seyda Neen - it's a wild, dangerous world and you don't know what to expect. You wander into a nearby cave.... and then run like the wind (well, not really because you didn't level up your athletics yet) as high level bandits chase you. Determined, you decide to come back later and destroy those bandits.

That's the Elder Scrolls feel - never knowing what you find in a location. Is it a dangerous area you'll have to revisit later? Or is it a bunch of battle-leveled bandits that you beat by bashing your face on keyboard before moving on to the next cave with the same battle-leveled bandits & another meaningless gaming experience.

This is nonsense. Go make a level 3 alt today, and take him to Wrothgar. Come back and tell me how much of a demigod you feel like.

I did this a few weeks ago. The difference is that you can probably survive a fight, maybe, versus getting insta-killed.

So basically your reply is "this is nonsense". Good argument, you've totally convinced me.

I could make a level 3 character & go to Wrothgar and complete every single quest in the zone, but sadly I don't feel like spending 1,5k crowns for another character slot.

Actually the argument was battle leveling does not make you a demigod like you said, and then a clear example was given. After that, the logic was laid out as a desire for content to be doable as opposed to walled off by an arbitrary level restriction. For something to be possible with skill is a challenge. For something to be impossible by it's nature is just not fun.

Orlacc

Seriously? If they gave out free candy some sourpuss would complain.

emily3989

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, this game could use more paths when it comes to the leveling experience. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

They could've done away with the alliance restrictions, kept Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon as options for all characters. Instead, they went the route that destroyed Skyrim & Oblivion - level scaling.

What do any of those options & choices of where you level matter, if that "leveling" has no real, meaningful purpose? Where is the sense of danger & what do I have to look forward to as a new player, if I can just do everything right away?

The moment you step out of Coldharbour, your character is a demigod capable of defeating every boss & monster in Tamriel. Yay?

Well, you are entitled to your opinions - but don't call it "Elder Scrolls feel", it couldn't be further from that.

"Elder Scrolls feel" is that moment you arrive in a boat in Seyda Neen - it's a wild, dangerous world and you don't know what to expect. You wander into a nearby cave.... and then run like the wind (well, not really because you didn't level up your athletics yet) as high level bandits chase you. Determined, you decide to come back later and destroy those bandits.

That's the Elder Scrolls feel - never knowing what you find in a location. Is it a dangerous area you'll have to revisit later? Or is it a bunch of battle-leveled bandits that you beat by bashing your face on keyboard before moving on to the next cave with the same battle-leveled bandits & another meaningless gaming experience.

This is nonsense. Go make a level 3 alt today, and take him to Wrothgar. Come back and tell me how much of a demigod you feel like.

I did this a few weeks ago. The difference is that you can probably survive a fight, maybe, versus getting insta-killed.

YES! Have some imagination. Make a new toon, take him through the DLC content at lvl 10+, don't use CP, you will have fun, or at least should be challenged if that is what you are looking for. No game is perfect in regards to content difficulty, just do 5 randoms and you will see the disparity in player skill alone that they can't deal with. I myself am having fun soloing Craglorn content, I kill most bosses, but takes some time, some destroy me. Soloing one of the nirn mines was very challenging for me an my lvl at the time I did it, and very rewarding - the challenge is out there, you must gotta find it.

Tavore1138

It just sounds really dull to me...

DDuke

ParaNostram wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, this game could use more paths when it comes to the leveling experience. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

They could've done away with the alliance restrictions, kept Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon as options for all characters. Instead, they went the route that destroyed Skyrim & Oblivion - level scaling.

What do any of those options & choices of where you level matter, if that "leveling" has no real, meaningful purpose? Where is the sense of danger & what do I have to look forward to as a new player, if I can just do everything right away?

The moment you step out of Coldharbour, your character is a demigod capable of defeating every boss & monster in Tamriel. Yay?

Well, you are entitled to your opinions - but don't call it "Elder Scrolls feel", it couldn't be further from that.

"Elder Scrolls feel" is that moment you arrive in a boat in Seyda Neen - it's a wild, dangerous world and you don't know what to expect. You wander into a nearby cave.... and then run like the wind (well, not really because you didn't level up your athletics yet) as high level bandits chase you. Determined, you decide to come back later and destroy those bandits.

That's the Elder Scrolls feel - never knowing what you find in a location. Is it a dangerous area you'll have to revisit later? Or is it a bunch of battle-leveled bandits that you beat by bashing your face on keyboard before moving on to the next cave with the same battle-leveled bandits & another meaningless gaming experience.

Elder Scrolls feel is being able to go in whatever direction you want and gradually over time grow more powerful as you adventure. A lvl 1 and a VR16 are not the same in power, even if there's scaling. Access to better equipment, abilities, more skill points, etc. There is a clear difference but now there won't be some arbitrary "don't go this way your Disneyland tour is supposed to go here first!"

For the record, your Morrowind comparrison is wrong. I killed those bandits when I first played, as I saw it was a challenge, decided I would not be stopped, and I figured out how to push through. The game doesn't dictate the path I take, I choose my path. Live another life, play the way you choose, these options are now finally properly available in the questing side of ESO.

That's what I'm saying. You could go any direction on the map in Morrowind (that's why I'm saying Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon all being available to a low level player would be a good thing), but there were areas you really wanted to stay away from until you were high level.

Oh, and I wasn't talking about Addamasartus, those bandits were only level 1-2 (unless you modded the game)

I'm talking about caves/ancestral tombs where the enemies would literally cast one spell and one shot you if you weren't high level enough.

What level scaling will do is make it sure that you'll never ever face a challenge (let alone content you can't do) in ESO during leveling phase. It's what it did to Oblivion & Skyrim and what ruined those games for most of the more experienced gamers who know what a good game looks like.

KaleidoscopeEyz

I like the changes. It's a good thing.

ParaNostram

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I really don't understand the argument of challenge... Is it really a challenge just to have the numbers be higher? That's all leveled content is, "oooooo this guy is a higher level than you it's going to be haaard!" That's an awful way to create challenging content. Challenge should come through mechanics or player made restrictions, not some arbitrary level system.

What's challenging? Soloing a world boss in one of the DLCs. What else is challenging? Creating an unorthodox build and making it viable, or playing with no champion points or set bonuses when questing. That's challenging.

Enodoc

ParaNostram wrote: »

Now you can do whatever content you want at whatever level you want. Don't feel like questing in location X? Feel free to wander over to location Y!

I agree with that, and that is certainly a good thing. Something that I do see an issue with is story progression. If you go too far ahead of where the continuity of the story says you should be, you currently find enemies that are too hard for you. After this change, you'll be able to freely wander around the world without this problem. This means you'll be able to pick up quests all over the place, and some of those won't make sense if you haven't done the storyline that comes before. Say, for example, you wander to Reaper's March and help choose a new Mane because the old one has been corrupted. But you haven't yet done Greenshade. Then you go to Greenshade, you find the previous Mane in good health and the Lunar Champions going into unnecessary detail about how this expedition is all part of their training. That makes no sense if you've already done Reaper's March.

Disclaimer: Yes, you can do this already. But the level range of the zones actively discourages you from doing so, and clearly indicates that Greenshade should be done first.

AmberLaTerra

And lets not forget this is kind of flipping off every one of us who bought the explorers pack for "Any race any alliance". When this goes active what is the point of having spent the crowns on that pack when I can take a nord through the AD lands at level 3 without it now?

ParaNostram

DDuke wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sure, this game could use more paths when it comes to the leveling experience. I don't think anyone disagrees with that.

They could've done away with the alliance restrictions, kept Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon as options for all characters. Instead, they went the route that destroyed Skyrim & Oblivion - level scaling.

What do any of those options & choices of where you level matter, if that "leveling" has no real, meaningful purpose? Where is the sense of danger & what do I have to look forward to as a new player, if I can just do everything right away?

The moment you step out of Coldharbour, your character is a demigod capable of defeating every boss & monster in Tamriel. Yay?

Well, you are entitled to your opinions - but don't call it "Elder Scrolls feel", it couldn't be further from that.

"Elder Scrolls feel" is that moment you arrive in a boat in Seyda Neen - it's a wild, dangerous world and you don't know what to expect. You wander into a nearby cave.... and then run like the wind (well, not really because you didn't level up your athletics yet) as high level bandits chase you. Determined, you decide to come back later and destroy those bandits.

That's the Elder Scrolls feel - never knowing what you find in a location. Is it a dangerous area you'll have to revisit later? Or is it a bunch of battle-leveled bandits that you beat by bashing your face on keyboard before moving on to the next cave with the same battle-leveled bandits & another meaningless gaming experience.

Elder Scrolls feel is being able to go in whatever direction you want and gradually over time grow more powerful as you adventure. A lvl 1 and a VR16 are not the same in power, even if there's scaling. Access to better equipment, abilities, more skill points, etc. There is a clear difference but now there won't be some arbitrary "don't go this way your Disneyland tour is supposed to go here first!"

For the record, your Morrowind comparrison is wrong. I killed those bandits when I first played, as I saw it was a challenge, decided I would not be stopped, and I figured out how to push through. The game doesn't dictate the path I take, I choose my path. Live another life, play the way you choose, these options are now finally properly available in the questing side of ESO.

That's what I'm saying. You could go any direction on the map in Morrowind (that's why I'm saying Stonefalls/Glenumbra/Auridon all being available to a low level player would be a good thing), but there were areas you really wanted to stay away from until you were high level.

Oh, and I wasn't talking about Addamasartus, those bandits were only level 1-2 (unless you modded the game)

I'm talking about caves/ancestral tombs where the enemies would literally cast one spell and one shot you if you weren't high level enough.

What level scaling will do is make it sure that you'll never ever face a challenge (let alone content you can't do) in ESO during leveling phase. It's what it did to Oblivion & Skyrim and what ruined those games for most of the more experienced gamers who know what a good game looks like.

You're mistaking whether or not content is possible with whether or not content is challenging. If all the game requires is you go level some before you do this content, then how is that challenging? It's just comparing numbers at that point! "Oh, you're 5 higher than me, I'll go get 10 and come back. Wooo. I feel challenged." Morrowind wasn't challenging. The challenging aspects came from the puzzles, creative design. It wasn't the leveled world that made it challenging on any level. The leveled world was a restriction in content, gotta go through this path with some kind of deviations but not really. It's not a challenge to go grind, to swing a sword at some mudcrabs until you level or sit in the corner of the Mage's Guild and spam spells for a few hours. That was dead time investment that didn't make you really feel more powerful.

What made me feel powerful in Morrowind was advancing through the content, finding rare and powerful weapons//spells//armor and enhancing my character that way. Having to go grind was just a chore. It's fun to some, seeing their numbers rise, but a game of comparing numbers being the most significant factor as to how "challenging" the encounter is is not a case of something being actually challenging.

kadar

What level scaling will do is make it sure that you'll never ever face a challenge in ESO.

But...but I want to face challenges!

I'm not even sure how I feel about this yet, I only just heard about it this morning, but I am automatically against any changes that make content easier. Easy content is boring. If there is no challenge to be overcome, then there is no reward, or feeling of success. It's as simple as that for me.

Catches_the_Sun

I would have loved this change, had they kept the Alliances separate. We're expected to believe that races that fight under the other 2 banners can roam freely across our lands, without fear of being attacked by us, can come in to our towns, our markets, buy & sell wares to each other...then we're supposed to magically hate each other when we port to Cyrodiil? Matt Firor has lost sight of one of the things that made DAOC's PvP system feel so great & unique.

ParaNostram

Enodoc wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Now you can do whatever content you want at whatever level you want. Don't feel like questing in location X? Feel free to wander over to location Y!

I agree with that, and that is certainly a good thing. Something that I do see an issue with is story progression. If you go too far ahead of where the continuity of the story says you should be, you currently find enemies that are too hard for you. After this change, you'll be able to freely wander around the world without this problem. This means you'll be able to pick up quests all over the place, and some of those won't make sense if you haven't done the storyline that comes before. Say, for example, you wander to Reaper's March and help choose a new Mane because the old one has been corrupted. But you haven't yet done Greenshade. Then you go to Greenshade, you find the previous Mane in good health and the Lunar Champions going into unnecessary detail about how this expedition is all part of their training. That makes no sense if you've already done Reaper's March.

Disclaimer: Yes, you can do this already. But the level range of the zones actively discourages you from doing so, and clearly indicates that Greenshade should be done first.

True... Idk if they account for that at all with the questing, I know that if you run into Razum'Dar for the first time later on like in Greenshade or further, they do change the dialogue for that. I hadn't thought of this.

Takes-No-Prisoner

ParaNostram wrote: »

That being said, the complaints regarding making factions useless need to be addressed. Here is how I see it. This is an issue for the RP community which the RP community would understand why you wouldn't just up and move factions willy nilly, so they wouldn't. It essentially becomes a non issue there, they will have loyalty to their faction. Non RPers, well, do you really care about the lore that much, or do you like just having content to do?

When it comes to adventuring over in other alliance areas, I just pretend to hide my Aldmeri badge of honor and just mingle with the locals. After all, I like shopping for goods in Wayrest. NPCs, They all just assume I'm politically allied with their cause in Cyrodiil. I'd rather just go with that flow so I can adventure in their lands without getting arrested for being on the wrong political agenda. I was hand picked and trained by Razum-dar as an Eye of the Queen, espionage can be really fun element to RP.

As someone who PvPs a lot, alliance pride can be a big thing people will have egos about but there is value in getting to know the other sides of the coins. For example;

Many Ebonheart players despise Almderi Dominion for what took place in Shadowfen's Hatching Pool's. As I did this quest, I was utterly offended by how my alliance was doing this to innocent peoples. Unforgivable. The best thing I could do as an Agent for her Highness was to destroy the root cause of this evil. I also did forgive the mis-guided Aldmeri army that was there. While we know Ayrenn does have good people working for her, this quest was a prime example of some of the hidden evils that can result from poorly communicated armies. These soldiers, I believe, were not working with Ayrenn's interests in mind. How could I have not known this if I couldn't sneak into EP's lands?

ParaNostram

Catches_the_Sun wrote: »

I would have loved this change, had they kept the Alliances separate. We're expected to believe that races that fight under the other 2 banners can roam freely across our lands, without fear of being attacked by us, can come in to our towns, our markets, buy & sell wares to each other...then we're supposed to magically hate each other when we port to Cyrodiil? Matt Firor has lost sight of one of the things that made DAOC's PvP system feel so great & unique.

I honestly can get behind keeping the faction territories separated until max level, and I can get behind a lack of separation. It all comes down to whether or not you care about the lore, or if you just want to do the quests.

DDuke

ParaNostram wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I really don't understand the argument of challenge... Is it really a challenge just to have the numbers be higher? That's all leveled content is, "oooooo this guy is a higher level than you it's going to be haaard!" That's an awful way to create challenging content. Challenge should come through mechanics or player made restrictions, not some arbitrary level system.

What's challenging? Soloing a world boss in one of the DLCs. What else is challenging? Creating an unorthodox build and making it viable, or playing with no champion points or set bonuses when questing. That's challenging.

It's not about "challenge" - it's about character progression. It's about playing and having that time spent have a meaningful effect on your character. If everything just scales, nothing matters. I don't play video games for *** & giggles - I play them to make my in game avatar stronger & stronger to be able to complete more & more content.
If you can complete everything straight away, that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

That content I need to "unlock" by having my character become stronger serves as a carrot for me to keep playing. When you have max level characters, end game raiding / PvP BGs & Arenas with leaderboards become that carrot.


P.S. In an ideal MMO, killing a World Boss would require a 40-man raid. Just goes to show how casualized this MMO has become...

ParaNostram

DDuke wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I really don't understand the argument of challenge... Is it really a challenge just to have the numbers be higher? That's all leveled content is, "oooooo this guy is a higher level than you it's going to be haaard!" That's an awful way to create challenging content. Challenge should come through mechanics or player made restrictions, not some arbitrary level system.

What's challenging? Soloing a world boss in one of the DLCs. What else is challenging? Creating an unorthodox build and making it viable, or playing with no champion points or set bonuses when questing. That's challenging.

It's not about "challenge" - it's about character progression. It's about playing and having that time spent have a meaningful effect on your character. If everything just scales, nothing matters. I don't play video games for *** & giggles - I play them to make my in game avatar stronger & stronger to be able to complete more & more content.
If you can complete everything straight away, that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

P.S. In an ideal MMO, killing a World Boss would require a 40-man raid. Just goes to show how casualized this MMO has become...

Skyrim was challenging and it was scaled. You might never have hit a brick wall, I mean I call that a good thing personally. Even Dark Souls games don't have brick walls you run into that can't be overcome through sheer skill.

DDuke

ParaNostram wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I really don't understand the argument of challenge... Is it really a challenge just to have the numbers be higher? That's all leveled content is, "oooooo this guy is a higher level than you it's going to be haaard!" That's an awful way to create challenging content. Challenge should come through mechanics or player made restrictions, not some arbitrary level system.

What's challenging? Soloing a world boss in one of the DLCs. What else is challenging? Creating an unorthodox build and making it viable, or playing with no champion points or set bonuses when questing. That's challenging.

It's not about "challenge" - it's about character progression. It's about playing and having that time spent have a meaningful effect on your character. If everything just scales, nothing matters. I don't play video games for *** & giggles - I play them to make my in game avatar stronger & stronger to be able to complete more & more content.
If you can complete everything straight away, that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

P.S. In an ideal MMO, killing a World Boss would require a 40-man raid. Just goes to show how casualized this MMO has become...

Skyrim was challenging and it was scaled. You might never have hit a brick wall, I mean I call that a good thing personally. Even Dark Souls games don't have brick walls you run into that can't be overcome through sheer skill.

Ok, I think I've heard enough...

Skyrim was the biggest disgrace of a game I've ever seen. There was nothing difficult about it and I don't think I died once during a "maximum difficulty" playthrough. I even modded it extensively and still it was literally impossible to die.

Claiming "Skyrim was challenging" is like saying the Earth is flat.


In Morrowind you could die if your character wasn't strong enough - it's called character progression, something that Skyrim lacked entirely (not just levels, but lack of attributes, athletics/acrobatics etc etc).

Enodoc

ParaNostram wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Now you can do whatever content you want at whatever level you want. Don't feel like questing in location X? Feel free to wander over to location Y!

I agree with that, and that is certainly a good thing. Something that I do see an issue with is story progression. If you go too far ahead of where the continuity of the story says you should be, you currently find enemies that are too hard for you. After this change, you'll be able to freely wander around the world without this problem. This means you'll be able to pick up quests all over the place, and some of those won't make sense if you haven't done the storyline that comes before. Say, for example, you wander to Reaper's March and help choose a new Mane because the old one has been corrupted. But you haven't yet done Greenshade. Then you go to Greenshade, you find the previous Mane in good health and the Lunar Champions going into unnecessary detail about how this expedition is all part of their training. That makes no sense if you've already done Reaper's March.

Disclaimer: Yes, you can do this already. But the level range of the zones actively discourages you from doing so, and clearly indicates that Greenshade should be done first.

True... Idk if they account for that at all with the questing, I know that if you run into Razum'Dar for the first time later on like in Greenshade or further, they do change the dialogue for that. I hadn't thought of this.

Only primarily within one zone and with respect to one character though. If you jump out of Auridon and go straight to Malabal Tor, you'll hear about the deaths of Estre, Naemon, and Pelidil in the storyline, even if those deaths haven't actually happened yet. But as I said, that discrepancy exists already, so maybe they won't bother to address it. But with people going all over the place without level-based guidance, it may become more of an issue for players who like their immersion. Even if it amounts to someone basically telling you in-game that there's an "issue with the flow of time" (dragon break) or some-such, meaning that they directly tell you that, timeline-wise and story-wise, the events in Auridon happen before those elsewhere, even if you do them later.

The_Old_Goat

Even as a new player(closing in on my 1st month), I don't see this as a good thing. Admittedly it's hard to find dungeon groups for a lowbie these days but that's another subject altogether. I like the idea of progression rather than just free ranging everything.

Twilanthe

I am torn on this issue. I was very excited when I heard this news, mostly because as an RPer I will now be open to RP with anyone of any faction, and won't be restricted to just one faction.

I am also very glad that if my friend joins and makes a fresh new character, I can take my Level 50, 300CP character and go quest with them (especially since I grinded her up from 10 to VR1 in three days with the Jubilee Cake so haven't done any quests with her yet).

I am also glad that the other 2 characters that I Jubilee-Leveled by grinding Old Orsinium for hours can go back and do the lower level zones and maybe still get something from it. I am also glad that the handful of low level alts I never bothered to level can now start their adventure wherever I want.

However, after reading some forum posts I now have a few...reservations. And to be honest these have less to do with the opening up the world thing, and far more to do with the lack of challenge in leveling content.

I agree that the content is too easy. I'm a big fan of MMOs that force group interactions. I'm a big fan of multi-player games not just being a primarily Solo experience until end-game dungeons. If ZOS made it so that even questing required you to group with at least one other person I would not be unhappy. Especially if it wasn't just a matter of strength versus then mobs, but also challenges, puzzles, etc that required coordinated efforts.

How awesome would it be if the main questline through each zone ended in a boss that required at least 2-3 players and had dungeon-like mechanics? How much better would that make end-game content if by the time someone actually got to max level they had some boss mechanics under their belt? (Currently I can quest through all the 1-50 content and never once block an attack or interrupt a spell cast, and have very little difficulty).

So long story short I am a little worried that in order for this scaling to work content will need to get even more nerfed than it already is. Once this One Tamriel hits, a new character will be able to literally go anywhere and do anything and while it may be challenging to ones who are completely new with no CP, it won't be challenging to people making alts. Basically I won't ever be challenged in this game again except for end-game content.

I think it would be neat if players scaled to the zone, so if a level 45 goes to a zone that is generally level 15, they scale down and the content remains challenging. The key word being challenging. That for a level 45 in a level 15 zone with no CP they'd need a buddy to quest with still, but could probably handle it on their own with 160cp or so under their belt. So those that want to faceroll the content can apply their 501CP and still solo everything, while still giving a challenge to those who want it.

I love Elder Scrolls, I've played them all, (well since Morrowind at least), and the lore is what brought me to ESO. I understand that ZOS wants to cater to the people who aren't used to MMOs, but in my opinion an MMO should be focused on the multi-player aspect. Things should require groups, and not just end-game content and world bosses. Personally I think it would be downright awesome if most players couldn't leave a city without an ally. (Hell, maybe introduce NPC allies like in Skyrim, you can hire a mage from the Mage's guild, a Fighter from the Fighters guild, a Thief from the Thieves guild, and Assassin from the Dark Brotherhood, or a Healer from one of the temples of the divines. It costs x-gold and has some kind timer, so people who still want to Solo, can).

Tavore1138

DDuke wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I really don't understand the argument of challenge... Is it really a challenge just to have the numbers be higher? That's all leveled content is, "oooooo this guy is a higher level than you it's going to be haaard!" That's an awful way to create challenging content. Challenge should come through mechanics or player made restrictions, not some arbitrary level system.

What's challenging? Soloing a world boss in one of the DLCs. What else is challenging? Creating an unorthodox build and making it viable, or playing with no champion points or set bonuses when questing. That's challenging.

It's not about "challenge" - it's about character progression. It's about playing and having that time spent have a meaningful effect on your character. If everything just scales, nothing matters. I don't play video games for *** & giggles - I play them to make my in game avatar stronger & stronger to be able to complete more & more content.
If you can complete everything straight away, that kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

That content I need to "unlock" by having my character become stronger serves as a carrot for me to keep playing. When you have max level characters, end game raiding / PvP BGs & Arenas with leaderboards become that carrot.


P.S. In an ideal MMO, killing a World Boss would require a 40-man raid. Just goes to show how casualized this MMO has become...

This. Or something close.

Progression is the point. I want my quest from 1-50 to have some meaning to me, I want to be challenged occasionally by things that are higher level so that I can feel pleased about doing that level 20 quest with a level 12 character and some skill. I want the choices I make while I level to have some consequence both immediately and in the future (as much as you can do that in an MMO).

I want my character to develop and be unique.

I want areas that I know I can go to an expect to be challenged - not in some crazy 1990's hardcore death mode type way but enough that my adrenaline is pumping.

It wish if anything they would dump classes and open up freer builds rather than just another step in making sure that no-one ever feels left behind however little effort they are willing to put into playing.

clocksstoppe

It will be the same problem like Oblivion. Once you realize you are not progressing you get bored and quit.

Also they will remove 90% of crafting because it has no meaning if everyone has the same level (with the exception of trait requirement sets).



Removing alliance based servers is great, but removing progression from the game is extremely stupid. At this point I think they just want to have a final cash grab before they kill the game and shut it down.

Lysette

Twilanthe wrote: »

I am torn on this issue. I was very excited when I heard this news, mostly because as an RPer I will now be open to RP with anyone of any faction, and won't be restricted to just one faction.

I am also very glad that if my friend joins and makes a fresh new character, I can take my Level 50, 300CP character and go quest with them (especially since I grinded her up from 10 to VR1 in three days with the Jubilee Cake so haven't done any quests with her yet).

I am also glad that the other 2 characters that I Jubilee-Leveled by grinding Old Orsinium for hours can go back and do the lower level zones and maybe still get something from it. I am also glad that the handful of low level alts I never bothered to level can now start their adventure wherever I want.

However, after reading some forum posts I now have a few...reservations. And to be honest these have less to do with the opening up the world thing, and far more to do with the lack of challenge in leveling content.

I agree that the content is too easy. I'm a big fan of MMOs that force group interactions. I'm a big fan of multi-player games not just being a primarily Solo experience until end-game dungeons. If ZOS made it so that even questing required you to group with at least one other person I would not be unhappy. Especially if it wasn't just a matter of strength versus then mobs, but also challenges, puzzles, etc that required coordinated efforts.

How awesome would it be if the main questline through each zone ended in a boss that required at least 2-3 players and had dungeon-like mechanics? How much better would that make end-game content if by the time someone actually got to max level they had some boss mechanics under their belt? (Currently I can quest through all the 1-50 content and never once block an attack or interrupt a spell cast, and have very little difficulty).

So long story short I am a little worried that in order for this scaling to work content will need to get even more nerfed than it already is. Once this One Tamriel hits, a new character will be able to literally go anywhere and do anything and while it may be challenging to ones who are completely new with no CP, it won't be challenging to people making alts. Basically I won't ever be challenged in this game again except for end-game content.

I think it would be neat if players scaled to the zone, so if a level 45 goes to a zone that is generally level 15, they scale down and the content remains challenging. The key word being challenging. That for a level 45 in a level 15 zone with no CP they'd need a buddy to quest with still, but could probably handle it on their own with 160cp or so under their belt. So those that want to faceroll the content can apply their 501CP and still solo everything, while still giving a challenge to those who want it.

I love Elder Scrolls, I've played them all, (well since Morrowind at least), and the lore is what brought me to ESO. I understand that ZOS wants to cater to the people who aren't used to MMOs, but in my opinion an MMO should be focused on the multi-player aspect. Things should require groups, and not just end-game content and world bosses. Personally I think it would be downright awesome if most players couldn't leave a city without an ally. (Hell, maybe introduce NPC allies like in Skyrim, you can hire a mage from the Mage's guild, a Fighter from the Fighters guild, a Thief from the Thieves guild, and Assassin from the Dark Brotherhood, or a Healer from one of the temples of the divines. It costs x-gold and has some kind timer, so people who still want to Solo, can).

Well, I would be gone as soon as they would force grouping up - and so might be the majority - TES comes from single-player and quests have to be mainly soloable or it does not feel like TES. I do not want to be forced to group with some random others - I have already a problem to do spindleclutch, because I would have to group with people I don't know. So as long as I do not have tons of friends, so that there is a chance that a couple of them are online at the same time and willing to do that with me, I will be unable to progress in the undaunted skill line - to me this skill line is currently useless, I cannot do it.

Edit: I expect TES with friends - not TES with some random guys, which might be very nasty and unforgiving and overall unpleasant people. And I want this optional - I can group up with friends, if I like to, but I do not have to in order to get through the content - that is TES with friends to me and I expect to get this from an Elder Scrolls game.