From PC to Console player.Console players please listen.

Sleep

this can be applied to pc players too

KingYogi415

I did not invent the saptank but I appreciate the vote of confidence!
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/214065/build-sap-mania-2-0-nightblade-tank-build-for-update-7

There are tons of these!

Your answer has me thinking you don't wear set gear or have ever had a max level character.

Mojmir

Defialed wrote: »

@Pirsius I definitely agree with you on most points except add-ons. While a lot of players may rely on add-on for their parses or debuff trackers, I do know majority of the players I run with use theirs solely for UI looks. I personally like a sleek design for showing my resources but when it comes to PvE (for example), Im very comfortable with my rotation on a Magicka NightBlade enough to never look at my buffs/debuffs. Same with the others I mentioned. Not everybody is so reliant on them.

this right here,biggest advantage over console is cosmetic and non combat addons.
Mini map,merchant,etc

I use one combat utility, I like to see numbers on my health bars,that's it.I also have a Ps4 acct,combat is actually easier on console with the game pad for me. @KingYogi415 you took what I said as negative,your build will actually be better.

Pirsius

Defialed wrote: »

@Pirsius I definitely agree with you on most points except add-ons. While a lot of players may rely on add-on for their parses or debuff trackers, I do know majority of the players I run with use theirs solely for UI looks. I personally like a sleek design for showing my resources but when it comes to PvE (for example), Im very comfortable with my rotation on a Magicka NightBlade enough to never look at my buffs/debuffs. Same with the others I mentioned. Not everybody is so reliant on them.

I agree completely, and I was not trying to collectively group PC players as being reliant on add-ons. I was more trying to address the prior comments about role-competitiveness on the two platforms. Competitive DPS for example. Timers provide a great advantage generally. There are experienced players on both sides that can efficiently perform their roles without any assistance, but more often than not combat add-ons are frequently used on PC. Some players may not necessarily be dependent on them, could be just as a reminder.

Like I said earlier, I came from PC. Started in beta and played there until console release. Aesthetic and utility add-ons were amazing, and I miss them every time I play. Such a pain trying to price-check a certain item or skyshard/lorebook hunting on a console.

Mjollo

@Pirsius Ah okay. Well said.

vladimilianoub17_ESO1

KingYogi415 wrote: »

I did not invent the saptank but I appreciate the vote of confidence!
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/214065/build-sap-mania-2-0-nightblade-tank-build-for-update-7

There are tons of these!

Your answer has me thinking you don't wear set gear or have ever had a max level character.

Oh man common?Have some self respect.Look at that build you posted again.Dont you notice the diference between that build and the " tank build" you claim you are.On the video,thats a tank build,yours is a DPS pretending to be a tank.You are so ignorant that you think that I think you invented sap tank.And then you show me video which shows everything you are not.And in all of that all you get is that i dont have a max character./facepalm

You see the top screenshot on the following link?That is a character on max level (vr 10) way before you even you knew about this game I think.
http://imgur.com/a/NuMDw

The purpose of the OP was to encourage ppl to study the game,instead,you,who totally need to study the game comes and try the best effort to put me down.

Mjollo

^ you started this war...plunged this thread into chaos and now they're going to put you down!

vladimilianoub17_ESO1

here a video that sums what has happened to this discussion and how I feel now.Sad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kvq3mKASDHs

DaveMoeDee

bareheiny wrote: »

quadraxis666 wrote: »

You missed the part about how PC gamers are just more intelligent and skilled in general, hence why they game on PC. Also keyboard and mouse. They have controllers. That's a difference as big as the difference between fighter jets and tricycles.

We (console gamers) appear to be a lot more humble.

I'll chalk that up as a win in our tally sheet.

Humility is for losers!

ArchMikem

PC has more players that are actually attuned to MMORPG gameplay and make it their mission to get a hang on every single nook and cranny of the game's mechanics? Oh yeah. PC has more skilled players? MMMMMMMMMMnope.

You must forget. Consoles are chock FULL of twitchy trigger finger players that, if they can get high enough numbers will wreck you regardless of actual understanding of the game or not. And that can easily carry over to Dungeons as well. But the actual reason you found yourself in "less skilled" groups for Dungeons is pretty simple really. Everyone you're looking to group up with is spending their time in Cyrodiil, cause Multiplayer is their go-to.

LiquidSchwartz

lol

Curragraigue

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

Rainteal wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Rainteal wrote: »

I am also a bit interested in knowing about his back-bar Resto staff tank build. I assume he is doing so on a Magicka tank right? Players on console with no knowledge of anything because we don't have access to text chat and the internet might never be questioning his build if he were, say, using a back-bar Resto as a stam tank right?

Just wondering...

I use a resto on my tank too.

I use a magica nightblade sap tank.

Sword and board/resto. 28k health, 28k magica, 16k stam. Resists at about 28k each when buffed. Use kagernacs, baharas curse and engine guardian. Tanked every dungeon with no healer. Never tried trials, not my thing.

Even kick out some dps. Managed to get valkyn skoria's health bar down a quarter by myself with no platforms left the other night.

I probably have a bad build though, being on console and that.

Yup, Resto back bar Magicka tank/healer is a great build. I was not knocking that. I hope I didn't come off that way with my posts dripping of sarcasm. Apologies if I did!

I was wondering if the OP was trying to back-bar a Resto Stick on a Stamina build and got called out for it. Since he was talking about being more knowledgeable...

Why should i do that? i know about tanking builds,I said it before,I am in no need to lie or anything.BTW Tank is the only build that you may call a " hibrid" as a tank you need to spend on the 3 stats.Probably not equalyy in each stats,you my have more mag than stam or viceversa.

BTW,this is the guy who called me as *** tank.We get to maw of infernal in vet BC.There is 2 ways of tanking this boss that I know.One is you as a tank get the debuff and kite the boss close to the walls of the room to not leave fire in the middle of the room.2nd way i know is if your build is optimized and you can stand in the fire without problem then do that.

So I taunt the boss and proceed with the kiting.The guy that calls me bad tank proceed then to say" what what are you doing,you tank him like this" and he as DPs taunted the boss( yeah he had a taunt in his bar as DPS) and say that i have to tank the boss on the fire traps on the entrance of the room.For me thats totally new,but im open to new things,so I taunt the boss off of him and proceed to the traps after he dies for standing in the boss fire and traps,then I die too.

Then comes the childish behavior.I told him to lets try the kiting and he just proceed to interrupt my talking with continiuosly saying,*** tank,*** tank.Then he start making fun of my accent.I told him, now you are being racist,are you racist? he say,no only with your race.Then proceed not to kick me off the grp,but to disband it.Yup thats the guy who called me bad tank.

I know *** like this may happen on pc to but for the many runs I have done,that actitud prevails on console.But that guy was an ass.In many runs I find ppl very ignorant of mechanics which I then proceed,if they are in V chat whic is not always,to explain the mechanics and with some times and wipes they get it.But would not be awesome if they go and study those mechanics before hand like me and many others do?Which is the point of my thread.

This sounds like your real complaint which is very different from your first post. So you were annoyed by a racist idiot hardly a reason to malign all console players.

no I complaining about the many players that I find on console that dont know the mechanics of dungeons, that me, after running dungeons non stop since lvl 12 and ran many more dungeons on PC,found that that kind of player are more in console.Cant you see that was 1 example? Im sure you knew that was 1 example( I hope so) but you have to change everythig with the goal of messing the thread.And stop saying " all console" like many are doing,I never say that.

If you reread your first post you are saying all because at no point do you qualify it with some. You just say you have played on PC and you have played on console and console players don't know the mechanics in dungeons in your opinion.

If you had read my other posts in this thread you would have seen I have played on PC and PS4. My experience differs to yours. If you read other posts I counted at least another three other people that have said the same thing as me that the players are the same on PC as console. You get some that know what they are doing and some that don't, surprise surprise.

What you should have done was given the example you did and discussed the poor skills of that player rather than extrapolating from your limited experience pool (one character levelled on one console on one server and you think you can judge all console players) to the conclusion that all console players don't know dungeon mechanics.

FYI I don't watch videos on dungeon mechanics because I can learn them myself and as I said before it is very unusual for any of the PUG groups I have been in to wipe including lots of groups with people who haven't done the dungeons before. Maybe you should look at your own playstyle before you start blaming others for group wipes.

psychotic13

Why all the hate for console players?

I bet any competent console player will give you a run for your money and I'm talking PvP here too.

I'd love to shut some people's mouths

MuddledMuppet

This thread reveals far more about human nature than any difference between console is PC players.

It has clear demonstration of unjustified extrapolation of limited experience to make claims about facts, example; several posters pull figures out of their collective butts that have no foundation anywhere, so do I rejoin with '90% of PC players make statistics up on the spot to make their claims seem authentic? No. I don't. I recognise how weak an argument that would be. It is a fundamental flaw in human reasoning of which I am sure console users are just as guilty of. I'm also not going to lay claims like 'the majority of PC gamers are elitusts' based on the ill-informed ramblings and posturings of a few people.

It is this flawed reasoning that leads to stereotypical thinking and generalisations, this type of thinking must be challenged whoever it arises: I met an arrogant German therefore Germans are arrogant, I knew a stupid Irishman therefore the Irish are stupid, a line of thinking stemming from our fear of the next tribe. It is not just factually incorrect, it is dangerous.

We see a need for dominance within sub groups, that of in-group acceptance and out-group hostility. One of the worst failings of anthropological evolution which stems from fear of the other 'tribe'. Newsflash, to non-gamers we're ALL nerds stuck in moms basement, PC or console doesn't make any difference to that group. The same hostility can be seen in inter-console platform wars where some people seem to think that choosing the 'wrong' platform defines someone's characteristics and attributes as a person.

It's not insightful to do so, it is actually completely ignorant.

Next we see a standard human failure to acknowledge we could be wrong, to stick to our guns no matter what, to paint ourselves into a corner and stubbornly refuse to accept that others are justified in their responce to our claims. Op, I am not insulted at your claims, all that has been offended is my sensitivity to weak arguments. You seem to even have to exaggerate this and lay a further claim that I am 'insulted' or 'offended' to make it seem like we have made a disproportionate response.

We see throughout this thread unjustified and uncorrolated claims, weak generalisations and sterotypical assumptions, a refusal to consider that anyone else might actually have a point, dismissal of anyone experience that doesn't match that which caused the initial claim, and all of this has come from the 'intelligent' side if the argument.

Do we extrapolate that PC gamers are incapable of presenting an argument without logical fallacies? Some might, but I would consider it a flawed line of reasoning, one which us console users don't do ,cos we're awesome.

Editted for typos, my tablet has a habit of making assumptions of what words I am trying to type whilst still allowing all my typos to go through.

ThisOnePosts

As a multi-platform gamer that's very one-dimensional.. I've seen countless noobs who are geared and leveled, but no common sense on both PC and console.. in this game and others.

You sound like you've had a run in with something called...PUGGING. You are literally gambling while pugging. It may turn out amazing, it may turn out horrible.

In general.. voice chat > text chat when it comes to fast paced gaming (FPS, some raids/dungeons of certain MMOs, along with PvP, etc..).

Both PC and Console should DEFINITELY have built in voice and text chat, but right now that's not the case.

Also, as someone who has also been here since Beta, has multiple max level characters, you jump in teamspeak and how many people have their mics muted or no mic at all? It happens EVERYWHERE. If not, then you don't branch out enough on PC to interact with people outside of your circle but are forced to on console it seems since maybe you don't have many friends there.

I can see where your argument is going, but TL;DR: You're wrong.

Steel_Brightblade

Lol think you'll find that many of the better console players primarily only play with guild mates and use voice chat. Reason has nothing to do with text chat. Try joining a good guild, using voice chat instead of what appears to be random group finder runs as that's a great way to find the worst players.

TortUred_mAlice

Defialed wrote: »

^ you started this war...plunged this thread into chaos and now they're going to put you down!

What was that?

It's nothing, carry on.

Mjollo

@MuddledMuppet

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/titanfall-exertus-free-refills-pc-console/
http://www.gamesradar.com/pc-gamers-destroyed-console-gamers-in-tests-says-voodoo-pc-founder/

Enjoy. But surely I pulled this out of my collective butt.

On the debate of ESO specifically. I have yet to be impressed by watching a console user play this game. After watching several relatively popular streamers over time, it's just not merely as entertaining as watching a PC player. The reaction time of the players in the clips/streams were sluggish and poorly retaliated. I could yawned through most of it as the combat times were more extended than it should be. It was bad enough just to see most of them unable to break CC or even bother blocking/dodging depending on their builds.

MuddledMuppet

Defialed wrote: »

@MuddledMuppet

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/titanfall-exertus-free-refills-pc-console/
http://www.gamesradar.com/pc-gamers-destroyed-console-gamers-in-tests-says-voodoo-pc-founder/

Enjoy. But surely I pulled this out of my collective butt.

On the debate of ESO specifically. I have yet to be impressed by watching a console user play this game. After watching several relatively popular streamers over time, it's just not merely as entertaining as watching a PC player. The reaction time of the players in the clips/streams were sluggish and poorly retaliated. I could yawned through most of it as the combat times were more extended than it should be. It was bad enough just to see most of them unable to break CC or even bother blocking/dodging depending on their builds.

Soodcredited the outcome tothe combination of the superiormouse/keyboard setup, and his belief that "You simply don't get the same level of detail or control as you do with a PC over a console

Both articles ascribing differences between controller and mouse/kB for fps games.

Neither article lays claims about comparative skill, whether you pulled it out ya butt or not it has zero relationship to the disdcussion, so yeah, I enjoyed reading your vain attempt to prove something.

I could care less if you,be been impressed watching anything.

As you seem incapable of either providing evidence for your ealier claims or give any meaningfull data I'll just leave to carry on with your prejudices, your 'arguments' and rebuttal attempts aren,'t worth any time.

RAGUNAnoOne

You do realize most of the people who use the forums that I know actually do use the net to try to learn things and the ones that don't use the forums or even bother to look at the internet are the ones you are trying to reach out to right? talk about irony... Plus PS4 has web browsing capability...

MuddledMuppet

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

You do realize most of the people who use the forums that I know actually do use the net to try to learn things and the ones that don't use the forums or even bother to look at the internet are the ones you are trying to reach out to right? talk about irony... Plus PS4 has web browsing capability...

I've heard that some console users use tablets and phones with internet too, seems crazy idea to me though.

Korah_Eaglecry

Defialed wrote: »

@MuddledMuppet

http://www.dailydot.com/esports/titanfall-exertus-free-refills-pc-console/
http://www.gamesradar.com/pc-gamers-destroyed-console-gamers-in-tests-says-voodoo-pc-founder/

Enjoy. But surely I pulled this out of my collective butt.

On the debate of ESO specifically. I have yet to be impressed by watching a console user play this game. After watching several relatively popular streamers over time, it's just not merely as entertaining as watching a PC player. The reaction time of the players in the clips/streams were sluggish and poorly retaliated. I could yawned through most of it as the combat times were more extended than it should be. It was bad enough just to see most of them unable to break CC or even bother blocking/dodging depending on their builds.

Stop the presses Defialed hasnt been impressed by console players. If hes actually watched a console player who knows...But still. Unimpressed.

Mjollo

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Soodcredited the outcome tothe combination of the superiormouse/keyboard setup, and his belief that "You simply don't get the same level of detail or control as you do with a PC over a console

Both articles ascribing differences between controller and mouse/kB for fps games.

Neither article lays claims about comparative skill, whether you pulled it out ya butt or not it has zero relationship to the disdcussion, so yeah, I enjoyed reading your vain attempt to prove something.

I could care less if you,be been impressed watching anything.

As you seem incapable of either providing evidence for your ealier claims or give any meaningfull data I'll just leave to carry on with your prejudices, your 'arguments' and rebuttal attempts aren,'t worth any time.

You got offended when I mentioned the comparison of general skill ratio between console and PC. So here's other articles that support my claim. Both articles are primarily about comparitive skill. You should know this if you read it. The second article even pits 4 "mediocre" PC players against 6 competitive console gamers who still end up getting annihilated. They used "Precision of mouse and keyboard" for their reasoning of advantage and I totally agree. After all, they did win.

Whether you care or not about me being impressed isn't why that was posted so you're letting the main topic fly over your head again. I said this so you'd understand I'm coming at you with a proper point of view. When Data is unobtainable, experience is the next best thing.

Now, let me ask if you if you've played on a higher-end PC and experienced any live interaction with the players of that community through both PvP and PvE content?

Who's more believable? The blind man or the one who's seen it?

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Stop the presses Defialed hasnt been impressed by console players. If hes actually watched a console player who knows...But still. Unimpressed.

Thanks. Im glad you acknowledged my post but didn't read it.

MuddledMuppet

I have a decent gaming rig, played many games on it including ESO, used to be a beast in any fps shooter back in the day, I have developer picks from ubisoft for fps map making, from media molecule for littlebigplanet, from monolith for Gotham city impostors (a coveted very important impostor award) although I haven't made manyvideos for years my gaming vids have over 2 1/2 mill views,

I have played numerous fps games competitively on console and PC

Once again, I didn't get offended at your remarks, the only 'offence' taken if any was offence to a desire to see poeoole not make asinine unsupported generalism and get away with them, and the sadness of the pathetic out-group hostility perpetuated by so many on these forums and others.

Have your response by all means then I would be grateful if we call it a day, the attitudes displayed here are disheartening and a huge downer.

Jsmalls

There are casuals in every game, consoles are always going to have more casuals then PC.

That being said, there are plenty of groups that are on tier with the top players on PC. Go into any campaign, make friends with the higher ranked PvP players. From my experience if they know how to PvP then they are also good at PvE.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

This thread reveals far more about human nature than any difference between console is PC players.

It has clear demonstration of unjustified extrapolation of limited experience to make claims about facts, example; several posters pull figures out of their collective butts that have no foundation anywhere, so do I rejoin with '90% of PC players make statistics up on the spot to make their claims seem authentic? No. I don't. I recognise how weak an argument that would be. It is a fundamental flaw in human reasoning of which I am sure console users are just as guilty of. I'm also not going to lay claims like 'the majority of PC gamers are elitusts' based on the ill-informed ramblings and posturings of a few people.

It is this flawed reasoning that leads to stereotypical thinking and generalisations, this type of thinking must be challenged whoever it arises: I met an arrogant German therefore Germans are arrogant, I knew a stupid Irishman therefore the Irish are stupid, a line of thinking stemming from our fear of the next tribe. It is not just factually incorrect, it is dangerous.

We see a need for dominance within sub groups, that of in-group acceptance and out-group hostility. One of the worst failings of anthropological evolution which stems from fear of the other 'tribe'. Newsflash, to non-gamers we're ALL nerds stuck in moms basement, PC or console doesn't make any difference to that group. The same hostility can be seen in inter-console platform wars where some people seem to think that choosing the 'wrong' platform defines someone's characteristics and attributes as a person.

It's not insightful to do so, it is actually completely ignorant.

Next we see a standard human failure to acknowledge we could be wrong, to stick to our guns no matter what, to paint ourselves into a corner and stubbornly refuse to accept that others are justified in their responce to our claims. Op, I am not insulted at your claims, all that has been offended is my sensitivity to weak arguments. You seem to even have to exaggerate this and lay a further claim that I am 'insulted' or 'offended' to make it seem like we have made a disproportionate response.

We see throughout this thread unjustified and uncorrolated claims, weak generalisations and sterotypical assumptions, a refusal to consider that anyone else might actually have a point, dismissal of anyone experience that doesn't match that which caused the initial claim, and all of this has come from the 'intelligent' side if the argument.

Do we extrapolate that PC gamers are incapable of presenting an argument without logical fallacies? Some might, but I would consider it a flawed line of reasoning, one which us console users don't do ,cos we're awesome.

Editted for typos, my tablet has a habit of making assumptions of what words I am trying to type whilst still allowing all my typos to go through.

I love smart people. You, madam or sir, win today's Internet.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

KBnM vs Controller

Even if it's true that either the best KBnM players are better than the best controller players, or that the average KBnM player is better than the average controller player (which is impossible to actually prove but whatever) it's still a logical fallacy for the following reason.

Some people are just better with controllers. Chances are the best controller players would melt 99.9999% of KNnM players (I can make up stats too!).

If I played against bizzarro me the one with the controller would win. Meanwhile if I had a typing contest the KBnM would win.

Some people are just better at using one piece of equipment over another because of comfort. A NASCAR is faster than my Ford Fiesta, but I'd beat bizarro me in the race because I don't know how to properly use a NASCAR.

Korah_Eaglecry

Defialed wrote: »

MuddledMuppet wrote: »

Soodcredited the outcome tothe combination of the superiormouse/keyboard setup, and his belief that "You simply don't get the same level of detail or control as you do with a PC over a console

Both articles ascribing differences between controller and mouse/kB for fps games.

Neither article lays claims about comparative skill, whether you pulled it out ya butt or not it has zero relationship to the disdcussion, so yeah, I enjoyed reading your vain attempt to prove something.

I could care less if you,be been impressed watching anything.

As you seem incapable of either providing evidence for your ealier claims or give any meaningfull data I'll just leave to carry on with your prejudices, your 'arguments' and rebuttal attempts aren,'t worth any time.

You got offended when I mentioned the comparison of general skill ratio between console and PC. So here's other articles that support my claim. Both articles are primarily about comparitive skill. You should know this if you read it. The second article even pits 4 "mediocre" PC players against 6 competitive console gamers who still end up getting annihilated. They used "Precision of mouse and keyboard" for their reasoning of advantage and I totally agree. After all, they did win.

Whether you care or not about me being impressed isn't why that was posted so you're letting the main topic fly over your head again. I said this so you'd understand I'm coming at you with a proper point of view. When Data is unobtainable, experience is the next best thing.

Now, let me ask if you if you've played on a higher-end PC and experienced any live interaction with the players of that community through both PvP and PvE content?

Who's more believable? The blind man or the one who's seen it?

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Stop the presses Defialed hasnt been impressed by console players. If hes actually watched a console player who knows...But still. Unimpressed.

Thanks. Im glad you acknowledged my post but didn't read it.

Oh I read it. But so far I wasnt impressed.

Mjollo

@MuddledMuppet You let your Naivety and Arrogance get the best of you lol. I also have similar awards and marks of the sorts but generalism is all that's possible based on your reasoning. This is a forum for a video game where people of ages come to discuss topics at hand in a casual manner meaning your need for physical data is irrelevant here. In fact, it's not something that could ever be recorded because people like you will always end up in disbelief. If my computer were readily available, I would have already thrown clips together so you could compare the two playstyles side by side. But this isn't something you need to prove with data. It's something you know from watching and observing on its own. And I hate to break it to you but it's only morning, bud. My day is just getting started.

@jyates214b14_ESO I absolutely agree and I think it's failure for understanding this that threw the whole topic in disarray. Consoles were intended for extended audiences of all ages who want a more casual vibe than those of other platforms. So it's only logical to acknowledge a higher noob:pro ratio exists there. Therefore, the average player on a console may not be the same as those on PC. That doesn't mean everyone sucks it just means it's not as common to find higher-ups.

MuddledMuppet

@danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO Don't bring your logic in here!

Even that aside, (all of which I agree with) a controller is indisputably more ergonimc in design as it allow the hands to rest and operate in the neuteral position, this is a cornerstone of ergonomic design for hand operated equipment. it is worse at translating one pixel/cursor with accuracy. Better for some games, worse for others. As games like ESO use soft targeting, is similar to aim assist but exaggerated, accuracy is less relevant here than on a fps or even third person shooter.

Speaking only for myself, when I use keyboard I am constantly looking at it to check what keys I'm using, I never once look at my controller. I did used to be a complete k/m fanatic, but no longer.