Tamriel United

Korah_Eaglecry

Gidorick wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ZOS doesnt need to do anything of the sort.

Well @Korah_Eaglecry , I'm glad they are doing something of this sort.

One Tamriel is pretty much the Open Zone Access and PVE Battle Leveling of this concept and players can, if they wish, stretch the narrative over the course of the three factions.

Did you really need to link me to this? Oh right you think your rubbing my nose in it. Congrats youve earned a block.

Gidorick

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ZOS doesnt need to do anything of the sort.

Well @Korah_Eaglecry , I'm glad they are doing something of this sort.

One Tamriel is pretty much the Open Zone Access and PVE Battle Leveling of this concept and players can, if they wish, stretch the narrative over the course of the three factions.

Did you really need to link me to this? Oh right you think your rubbing my nose in it. Congrats youve earned a block.

Well @Korah_Eaglecry , last time I tagged you on this thread to try to actually get a conversation going, you never responded. At least this got your attention.

Sorry to see you didn't want to discuss the development.

PainfulFAFA

Coz theyve lost so many players... Lol

Gidorick

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Coz theyve lost so many players... Lol

That could very well be true @PainfulFAFA .

With One Tamriel coming I wouldn't be surprised to see faction change on the way.

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

One Tamriel is pretty much the Open Zone Access and PVE Battle Leveling of this concept and players can, if they wish, stretch the narrative over the course of the three factions.

I hope they're planning to address the internal narrative as well. Meridia's alternate timeline "what would have happened" thing doesn't really work if you're able to do it by boat from the get-go. There will need to be a new reason why, as a member of the DC (for example), you are helping the EP to kill DC soldiers.

Kendaric

I'm more than happy to see the game opening up faction restrictions, they always felt artificial as far as PvE and RP are concerned.
Now if they would they'd implement something like RP phases/instances...

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

One Tamriel is pretty much the Open Zone Access and PVE Battle Leveling of this concept and players can, if they wish, stretch the narrative over the course of the three factions.

I hope they're planning to address the internal narrative as well. Meridia's alternate timeline "what would have happened" thing doesn't really work if you're able to do it by boat from the get-go. There will need to be a new reason why, as a member of the DC (for example), you are helping the EP to kill DC soldiers.

My idea to address this in this thread is to simply make you "factionless" @Enodoc. If the player isn't considered to be allied to a faction, they can pretty much do whatever they want.

But I do agree that it would be nice if those particular quests are addressed.

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

One Tamriel is pretty much the Open Zone Access and PVE Battle Leveling of this concept and players can, if they wish, stretch the narrative over the course of the three factions.

I hope they're planning to address the internal narrative as well. Meridia's alternate timeline "what would have happened" thing doesn't really work if you're able to do it by boat from the get-go. There will need to be a new reason why, as a member of the DC (for example), you are helping the EP to kill DC soldiers.

My idea to address this in this thread is to simply make you "factionless" @Enodoc. If the player isn't considered to be allied to a faction, they can pretty much do whatever they want.

Yeah I remember As I said, this would be bad for anyone who paid for Any Race, Any Alliance. I hope ZOS are thinking of ways to make Any Race, Any Alliance still worthwhile.

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

One Tamriel is pretty much the Open Zone Access and PVE Battle Leveling of this concept and players can, if they wish, stretch the narrative over the course of the three factions.

I hope they're planning to address the internal narrative as well. Meridia's alternate timeline "what would have happened" thing doesn't really work if you're able to do it by boat from the get-go. There will need to be a new reason why, as a member of the DC (for example), you are helping the EP to kill DC soldiers.

My idea to address this in this thread is to simply make you "factionless" @Enodoc. If the player isn't considered to be allied to a faction, they can pretty much do whatever they want.

Yeah I remember As I said, this would be bad for anyone who paid for Any Race, Any Alliance. I hope ZOS are thinking of ways to make Any Race, Any Alliance still worthwhile.

I was JUST thinking about that @Enodoc ... did ZOS say anything about that? It's not going to be locked to just those players. So what now? That's only useful for PVP?

That's actually MORE of a reason to let us be factionless and let us switch factions when we want. It would make Any-Race, Any-Alliance more viable. If you're a PVP players and you want to change factions, you can only do so if you have Any-Race, Any-Alliance.

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

One Tamriel is pretty much the Open Zone Access and PVE Battle Leveling of this concept and players can, if they wish, stretch the narrative over the course of the three factions.

I hope they're planning to address the internal narrative as well. Meridia's alternate timeline "what would have happened" thing doesn't really work if you're able to do it by boat from the get-go. There will need to be a new reason why, as a member of the DC (for example), you are helping the EP to kill DC soldiers.

My idea to address this in this thread is to simply make you "factionless" @Enodoc. If the player isn't considered to be allied to a faction, they can pretty much do whatever they want.

Yeah I remember As I said, this would be bad for anyone who paid for Any Race, Any Alliance. I hope ZOS are thinking of ways to make Any Race, Any Alliance still worthwhile.

I was JUST thinking about that @Enodoc ... did ZOS say anything about that? It's not going to be locked to just those players. So what now? That's only useful for PVP?

That's actually MORE of a reason to let us be factionless and let us switch factions when we want. It would make Any-Race, Any-Alliance more viable. If you're a PVP players and you want to change factions, you can only do so if you have Any-Race, Any-Alliance.

Hmm, maybe. I'm just afraid that they will completely do away with Any Race, Any Alliance once race change makes it into the Crown Store. There are ways that they could make it work (ie, only being able to change race to one of the others in your alliance), but I don't know if they would bother to implement that. Race Change, Alliance Change, and One Tamriel may be the end of Any Race, Any Alliance.

Kendaric

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

One Tamriel is pretty much the Open Zone Access and PVE Battle Leveling of this concept and players can, if they wish, stretch the narrative over the course of the three factions.

I hope they're planning to address the internal narrative as well. Meridia's alternate timeline "what would have happened" thing doesn't really work if you're able to do it by boat from the get-go. There will need to be a new reason why, as a member of the DC (for example), you are helping the EP to kill DC soldiers.

Well, they already give sort of an explanation... the troops we fight in PvE are usually rogue elements. If we'd be dealing with an "official" invasion force, they wouldn't be confined to relatively small areas in the respective zones.

The only real invasions seem to take place in Reaper's March with the Colovians and Bangkorai with the Reachmen & Imperials. It could probably be argued that the Dominion forces in Shadowfen are a real invasion force, however I somehow doubt they're acting under Ayrenn's order.
The Covenant forces in Stonefalls seem to be led by a rogue general who also practices necromancy.

Danvul

Where's the excitement in knowing that you can win every fight you enter because it's appropriately levelled for you? Where's the excitement in looting a dungeon knowing you're only going to get items appropriately levelled for you? Level scaling has been terrible since Oblivion and it will always be terrible. You're making an RPG not an action game.

Gidorick

Danvul wrote: »

Where's the excitement in knowing that you can win every fight you enter because it's appropriately levelled for you? Where's the excitement in looting a dungeon knowing you're only going to get items appropriately levelled for you? Level scaling has been terrible since Oblivion and it will always be terrible. You're making an RPG not an action game.

Well, In my concept @Danvul , players could toggle battle leveling to turn off the zone leveling. I'm not sure if this is the case with One Tamriel.

I personally think the freedom of play is worth the progression hit. Your personal progression will still be there. You'll still get more skills and more abilities.

But I do see how some players could get the feeling of "what's the point?" I would say try playing more for the narrative than the progression... maybe?

Enodoc

Kendaric wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

One Tamriel is pretty much the Open Zone Access and PVE Battle Leveling of this concept and players can, if they wish, stretch the narrative over the course of the three factions.

I hope they're planning to address the internal narrative as well. Meridia's alternate timeline "what would have happened" thing doesn't really work if you're able to do it by boat from the get-go. There will need to be a new reason why, as a member of the DC (for example), you are helping the EP to kill DC soldiers.

Well, they already give sort of an explanation... the troops we fight in PvE are usually rogue elements. If we'd be dealing with an "official" invasion force, they wouldn't be confined to relatively small areas in the respective zones.

The only real invasions seem to take place in Reaper's March with the Colovians and Bangkorai with the Reachmen & Imperials. It could probably be argued that the Dominion forces in Shadowfen are a real invasion force, however I somehow doubt they're acting under Ayrenn's order.
The Covenant forces in Stonefalls seem to be led by a rogue general who also practices necromancy.

Sure, I remember presenting exactly the same argument a long time ago for why playing through those zones does not break your faction loyalty.

Enodoc wrote: »

Also, all of the troops from your own alliance that you fight against are under the command of a rogue officer, operating outside of your alliance's orders. I would have thought that your alliance leader would praise the court-marshalling of these rogues.

But this is never really made clear; the detail is there if you dig into it, but from the perspective of the faction being invaded, that's not really important. The story tells you that they are seen as "the real deal".

The main issue though isn't that; it's the fact that the "what would have happened" setup doesn't work any more, because it's no longer initiated magically by Meridia at the end of the main quest. You will most likely be able to travel directly, by boat, to the other lands, meaning it is no longer part of an "alternate timeline". Unless they come up with a new introduction to questing in the other alliances which still sets it up in an alternate timeline. But that still doesn't explain why characters you meet in DLC zones recognise you if you were never there in the primary timeline. (Yes, the alternate timeline theory is already starting to fall apart. But @Abeille has come up with something that still works - something equivalent to a Spinner story. Everything that happens "in the story" is remembered as truth, even if it didn't happen in the primary timeline.)

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

But @Abeille has come up with something that still works - something equivalent to a Spinner story. Everything that happens "in the story" is remembered as truth, even if it didn't happen in the primary timeline.)

So kind of like... living lore?

Nice.

Kendaric

Enodoc wrote: »

Sure, I remember presenting exactly the same argument a long time ago for why playing through those zones does not break your faction loyalty.

But this is never really made clear; the detail is there if you dig into it, but from the perspective of the faction being invaded, that's not really important. The story tells you that they are seen as "the real deal".

True, the character is required to read the books and notices throughout the quests. But at least you can justify fighting your own alliance that way.

The main issue though isn't that; it's the fact that the "what would have happened" setup doesn't work any more, because it's no longer initiated magically by Meridia at the end of the main quest. You will most likely be able to travel directly, by boat, to the other lands, meaning it is no longer part of an "alternate timeline". Unless they come up with a new introduction to questing in the other alliances which still sets it up in an alternate timeline. But that still doesn't explain why characters you meet in DLC zones recognise you if you were never there in the primary timeline. (Yes, the alternate timeline theory is already starting to fall apart. But @Abeille has come up with something that still works - something equivalent to a Spinner story. Everything that happens "in the story" is remembered as truth, even if it didn't happen in the primary timeline.)

I would assume they add some explanation. Personally, I always hated the "alternate timeline" explanation, as it felt too artificial and forced for my taste.

Voxicity

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

ZOS doesnt need to do anything of the sort.

Well @Korah_Eaglecry , I'm glad they are doing something of this sort.

One Tamriel is pretty much the Open Zone Access and PVE Battle Leveling of this concept and players can, if they wish, stretch the narrative over the course of the three factions.

Did you really need to link me to this? Oh right you think your rubbing my nose in it. Congrats youve earned a block.

rekt

nimander99

You nailed it @Gidorick ! I knew world scaling was coming but Cross Alliance play surprised the heck out of me (pleasantly). I cant wait bro!

Gidorick

nimander99 wrote: »

You nailed it @Gidorick ! I knew world scaling was coming but Cross Alliance play surprised the heck out of me (pleasantly). I cant wait bro!

Neither can I @nimander99 ! I 'm just looking forward to being able to travel to ANY zone and complete ANY sidequest and I will get appropriate XP for my characters.

The OP of this thread was suggesting there be a stretching of the main narrative over the narrative of all three factions but I honestly don't even think that's needed. If a player wants to stretch the narrative, they are welcome to do so...

I still think making the player factionless and allowing us to change factions is a good idea... it would add an element of actual decision to the game and there could be all sorts of dynamics added for loyalty, playing factionless, leaving a faction too many times causing the player to be shunned by one army so they can't join that army for a period of time.

Kalifas

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

But @Abeille has come up with something that still works - something equivalent to a Spinner story. Everything that happens "in the story" is remembered as truth, even if it didn't happen in the primary timeline.)

So kind of like... living lore?

Nice.

With the introduction of battle scaling and no faction segregation we now come to talk about seasons and living lore. Sounds awfully familiar...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Living_World

I like being able to group up with whomever I please. I don't like battle scaling so much. And I don't know how I feel about seasons or living world. I don't like the seasons thing in Swtor or the battle scaling in GW2 or Swtor. Everything feels subtly easier and sometimes not so subtle.

NewBlacksmurf

I'm thinking the change is enough, after we see more specifics I'll have an opinion but as is I don't think the suggestions are going to improve things.
My only observation is to better understand ZOS's 2 year plan because in scaled content it could create situations where you'd want to redo parts for those same items at higher levels so redoing quests as an option is the only thing that "might" be a good addition.

Gidorick

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm thinking the change is enough, after we see more specifics I'll have an opinion but as is I don't think the suggestions are going to improve things.
My only observation is to better understand ZOS's 2 year plan because in scaled content it could create situations where you'd want to redo parts for those same items at higher levels so redoing quests as an option is the only thing that "might" be a good addition.

My BIG question for One Tamriel @NewBlacksmurf is if players will be able to turn the level scaling OFF if they wanted to.

NewBlacksmurf

Gidorick wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm thinking the change is enough, after we see more specifics I'll have an opinion but as is I don't think the suggestions are going to improve things.
My only observation is to better understand ZOS's 2 year plan because in scaled content it could create situations where you'd want to redo parts for those same items at higher levels so redoing quests as an option is the only thing that "might" be a good addition.

My BIG question for One Tamriel @NewBlacksmurf is if players will be able to turn the level scaling OFF if they wanted to.

@Gidorick
No I don't foresee that being a likely option nor a beneficial feature because the persistent world becomes limited when the player has options that affect other players. There is already solo only environments and I do for see more of those so that fills the need

Gidorick

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

No I don't foresee that being a likely option nor a beneficial feature because the persistent world becomes limited when the player has options that affect other players. There is already solo only environments and I do for see more of those so that fills the need

@NewBlacksmurf My thought would be that players could then "powerlevel" with their friends. A CP 160 character goes to a level 40 zone with a friend who is level 10... groups up and everyone turns battle-leveling off. The CP 160 character wipes the floor with the mobs, the level 10 character reaps many rewards. bwahahah!