Sunshine Daydream's Guide to Crafting (more recent updates)

Tevalaur

I started translating in earnest other than the 5 or so runes used to test other things along the way at enchanting level 46. Once I translated all aspect runes, I did all future creations with Ta since they are abundant and was only after the translation bonus at this point; I finished translating at level 49 with 160k to go to max enchanting. But this does sound like a good area to start translating.

Enchanting translation bonus at varying enchanting levels:
2047 at level 6
5992 at level 26
11462 at level 46

If you need a rune to create a glyph sooner then I'd go ahead as needed (each translation bonus isn't THAT much inspiration), but saving unnecessary translations until enchanting level is in the mid-40s reaps the most rewards from that process.


However, translating early would raise your enchanting level to where you get significantly more inspiration for deconstructing glyphs over your crafting level. So I'm not sure if overall it helps the process to deliberately wait vs getting as much easy inspiration as possible as soon as possible and gaining more inspiration for each glyph that you may be purchasing.

For this reason I need to consider if I advocate translating runes as you find them to quickly boost early levels of enchanting or rather waiting to do so. I'm going to rerun those tests with another character with varying glyphs so I can get a more realistic impression of how much inspiration is lost in early levels so how urgent it is to rush through those levels and also compare those values to the inspiration chart and see if it's even truly useful as well.

SpAEkus

Some people also hold reading Skill books to later as well, wonder if its the same set of choices?

Tevalaur

Testing complete: I think for the glyphs that one is likely to buy for leveling, holding off on most translations as long as possible but no later than level 46 is good advice. If you need a rune to create a glyph sooner then I'd go ahead as needed (each translation bonus isn't THAT much inspiration), but saving unnecessary translations until enchanting level is in the mid-40s reaps the most rewards from that process.

My next update of the enchanting webpage (probably tomorrow) will reflect that advice as well as incorporate recommendations for which level/quality glyphs to purchase for deconstruction at many enchanting levels.

DECON CAP TO ENCHANTING INSPIRATION - with notes on translation bonus and advice on which glyphs to decon
427 @ level 1
2458 @ level 2-3 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Lesser green or Greater white glyph)
translation @ level 2 = 1060 bonus
3954 @ level 4-5 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Average/Strong green or Truly Superb white glyph)
translation @ level 5 = 1876 bonus
4747 @ level 6-7 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Moderate blue or Major green glyph)
5280 @ level 8 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Average blue or Greater/Grand green glyph)
6336 @ level 9 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Strong blue or Splendid green glyph)
7363 @ level 10-11 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Monumental/Superb green glyph)
translation @ level 10 = 2646 bonus
8725 @ level 12-13 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Major/Greater/Grand blue glyph)
9074 @ level 14-15
translation @ level 15 = 3518 bonus
10502 @ level 16-17 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Splendid blue glyph)
11154 @ level 18-19 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Monumental blue glyph)
12829 @ level 20-21 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Superb blue glyph)
translation @ level 20 = 4610 bonus
13606 @ level 22-23
14319 @ level 24-25 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Major purple glyph)
translation @ level 25 = 5569 bonus
16672 @ level 26-27 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Greater/Grand/Superb purple glyph)
17752 @ level 28-29
18816 @ level 30-31
translation @ level 30 = 6762 bonus
19954 @ level 32-33 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Monumental purple glyph)
21304 @ level 34-35
translation @ level 35 = 7909 bonus
22707 @ level 36-37 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Superb purple glyph)
24321 @ level 38 (can now receive full deconstruction inspiration from a Truly Superb purple glyph)
24291 @ level 39
25908 @ level 40-41
translation @ level 40 = 9310 bonus
27811 @ level 42-43
29726 @ level 44-45
translation @ level 45 = 11072 bonus

helediron

I am all too late with my appreciation but this is great testing and what a great guide!

This is the skeleton i use when pushing players to 50 in enchanting:
- Remind they have inspiration CP passive.
- 0..30: deconstruct looted glyphs.
- 15..30 green veteran crafted glyphs.
- 30..40: blue monumental crafted glyphs.
- 40.45: purple superb crafted glyphs.
- 45: learn runes.
- Finish to 50 with purple superb crafted glyphs.

For leveling provisioning, it would be worth to clarify what is the difference between recipe improvement level and to what player level a recipe is. Your guide has it correctly. People just make the mistake so often that i would emphasize it. This is important at improvement level 1, where you can make recipes to player level 1,5, 10 and 15. I have met way too many players who level their provisioning by cooking Chicken Breasts. They need to make them maybe thousand to get to 20. Selecting a recipe for player level 15 gives tenfold XP. Beyond first improvement it's not so important, since e.g. XP difference between recipes for level 20 and 25 is not big.

SpAEkus

Finished the White Loot Decon from Coldharbor Tutorial. All items were kill loot, no containers.

All the NPC are Level 2, which cannot be crafted so there is no way to know exactly how it compares to Crafted Decon IP numbers. But the results between basic, traits, and enchants were consistent, no bonus IP for anything.

L10 Character ESO+ No CP, BS L41 4/10, Cloth L40 4/10, WW L40 4/10
All Items White Quality

BS

L2 Iron Dagger 8g - 166 IP
L2 Iron Dagger Sharpened 8g - 166 IP
L2 Iron Dagger Sharpened Fire Enchant 8g - 166 IP

CLOTH

L2 Homespun Jerkin 10g - 202 IP
L2 Homespun Jerkin Stamina 10g - 202 IP
L2 Homespun Robe Infused Health 10g - 202 IP

L2 Rawhide Jack 10g - 202 IP
L2 Rawhide Jack Well-Fitted Stamina 10g - 202 IP

WW

L2 Maple Inferno Staff 14g - 387 IP
L2 Maple Inferno Staff Defending 14g - 387 IP
L2 Maple Resto Staff Defending Flame Enchant 14g - 387

SpAEkus

Also re-ran the BS-Cloth-WW IP penalty break points to make sure my own posts were more accurate.

DECON IP PENALTIES BY CRAFT SKILL LEVEL (Read: Skill Level for MAX IP per best use Item Level)

Tevalaur

SpAEkus wrote: »

Also re-ran the BS-Cloth-WW IP penalty break points to make sure my own posts were more accurate.

DECON IP PENALTIES BY CRAFT SKILL LEVEL (Read: Skill Level for MAX IP per best use Item Level)

I don't know what posts you're referring to here and the I don't know what data you're trying to represent. I do know if you're referring to the decon cap that I've seen numbers beyond those for decon so if you're implying by BS 20, Cloth 18, WW 13 you face no decon cap then you're wrong and deconning (especially a green or blue) a high level CP item at those levels is a waste.

Regardless, I wish you'd not hijack my thread with it please. This does not seem to have anything to do with my guide or any of your previous posts in this thread.

SpAEkus

Did not intend to offend,

The current PDF link didn't mention Decon IP penalties and Material Return Penalties for hard crafts, I didn't know if you planned on including any. I have been posting just a range that one needed to be in but after running it again that wasn't quite accurate enough and needed more detail.

All items are crafted white, should have specified. All data is there just to be complete, not suggesting which would be most effective, just showing where the penalties end based on using the item levels that return best IP per mat.

helediron

A little suggestion to provisioning and writ recipe table. It would be helpful if all of them had the recipe improvement level they belong to. I am doing lowest level writs on few characters and premade the food on my cook. It took a little to figure out which recipes actually belong to level 1. The higher level ( > 4)writs already have level there.

And this goes to show your guide is currently my goto reference when looking up any details regarding crafting.

the_man_of_steal

OP... you are crazy! Thanks for this!

Tevalaur

helediron wrote: »

A little suggestion to provisioning and writ recipe table. It would be helpful if all of them had the recipe improvement level they belong to. I am doing lowest level writs on few characters and premade the food on my cook. It took a little to figure out which recipes actually belong to level 1. The higher level ( > 4)writs already have level there.

And this goes to show your guide is currently my goto reference when looking up any details regarding crafting.

For that I use the link referenced as "This Google-Doc chart shows which recipes your character needs to know and at what writ level as well as where you'll be delivering the completed writs." although since I'm doing a slight redraft of the way alchemy & provisioning skill recommendations are described today I can also work on including that data in the table on the webpage.

edit: I see that link was actually just above the anchor for the "Recipes for Writs" link, I'm bumping the anchor up a paragraph so that link shows when you jump to that point on the page now.

Tevalaur

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

OP... you are crazy! Thanks for this!

You're welcome

Tevalaur

I needed to remove the link to the overall 103-page PDF. It's simply too difficult to keep the cumbersome to re-combine the file after even minor edits; each section still has its own associated PDF which is linked near the top of each webpage, just below the page title.

I've also reworked some of the sections and added an Introduction followed by a Table of Contents which reads something like this:

Introduction to Crafting

Gear received as rewards or looted from dead bodies can be studied (trait research) or deconstructed for materials & crafting inspiration (leveling). Stolen items and items with a value of 0 gold will give far less inspiration than other items.

Style materials (and occasionally motifs) are typically found in furniture such as desks, cabinets, dressers, trunks, and urns. Provisioning ingredients can be found everywhere but abound in crates and barrels. If you kill an animal, you may find many items -- including a usable hide for leatherwork (not foul hides, sell those). During your travels gather nodes of ore, fallen logs, fibrous plants, runes, alchemical reagents and pure water.

Rough wood must be sanded, ore must be smelted into ingots, hides must be processed, and raw fibrous plants must be spun & woven before being used to create items. This is done in the "Refinement" tab at a crafting table. Each craft has its own crafting table, located in most cities throughout each region and at special crafting sites (oriented to crafting a particular set) which are scattered about the wilderness.

When ready to create an item, bring refined materials of the proper level, a style material, and a trait gem if you wish the item to have a trait (only items destined for a writ delivery or crafting buddy's decon should not have a trait). After gear is crafted it can be improved in quality or have an enchantment added or changed, but the trait, style, and item level cannot be altered.

Each character automatically knows how to craft in their own racial style, but must study before creating other styles. This is done by reading style motifs (books and/or chapters). The basic racial motifs (blue books) and the Imperial motif (gold book) can be learned immediately, but other motifs require an investment of skill points into the material tiers before they can be understood (except when purchased from the crown store).

Upon reaching character level 6, the game offers tutorial quests, started by approaching the "writ board" in your starter city. These tutorials cover these basics and, once complete, enable you to do crafting writs.


Gradually Invest Skill Points

This plan will help keep the points from getting out of hand when skill points are difficult to get in early levels. Eventually you'll find you have plenty of points to put in all recommended or desired skills.

Provisioning would be the first place to invest points in my opinion. Spending points in Connoisseur (to extend the duration of drinks) is essential before drinking Psijic Ambrosia (the experience booster). The ability to make food at your level (Recipe Improvement) in at least blue quality (Recipe Quality 2) is significant and should be invested next. While Brewer & Chef might also be handy, they are only absolutely necessary once using perfect roe to create recipes such as Psijic Ambrosia & Orzorga's Smoked Bear Haunch as other ingredients are relatively plentiful.

On a first character, invest one rank into Keen Eye for Blacksmith, Cloth, Wood, & Alchemy as soon as possible to learn what these materials look like and to begin gathering these resources as you play. Keen Eye is not necessary for Enchanting however; all runestones glow already and do not blend into the vegetation like many other collectible materials, so once you learn to recognize them they can be easily spotted from afar.

Always invest as rapidly in possible in the skills that reduce research time and allow simultaneous trait research studies. Further invest in your blacksmith/cloth/wood skills as you level, keeping your material tier useful to your most advanced character's level.

Early on I'd skip putting points into Enchanting, focusing on leveling enchanting through deconstruction. I'd also ignore Alchemy skills for a short while -- except for the 2 skill points that help effectively learn all traits while starting to level the craft nicely.

If you follow the recommendations in Sunshine Daydream's Guide to Crafting you'll eventually invest around 100 points for a well-rounded do-it-all crafter:

• 11 points Alchemy (plus 4 for consumers)
• 15 points Enchanting
• 14 points Provisioning (plus 3-6 for consumers)
• 20 points Blacksmithing
• 20 points Clothing
• 20 points Woodworking

Other Considerations

If you don't normally wear light armor but wish to level up the Light Armor skill line, craft a sash (light belt) to minimize the loss to your armor. If you don't normally wear heavy armor but wish to level up the Heavy Armor skill line, craft a cuirass (heavy chest piece) to gain the most armor rating. If you wish to level up the Medium Armor skill line, craft bracers (medium hands) if you typically wear heavy armor or guards (medium legs) if you typically wear light armor.

One trick I wish I had used when researching traits: study either light or medium armor (whichever you are more likely to actually wear) and heavy armor on your main crafter while initially studying on light/medium (the other option) armor and metal weapons on another character. Then consolidate traits by having that alt make study items for your main crafter. This saves no overall time, and eventually all traits are learned on your main crafter anyhow, but does greatly reduce the time before being able to make the best set pieces.

Motifs can be expensive! You'll only want to purchase one copy of these, so keep blacksmithing, clothing, and woodworking on the same character for shared knowledge of style motifs. Some folks prefer to split off the consumables crafting (provisioning, alchemy, enchanting) to lower the percentage of skill points dedicated to crafting, but my main character is also my crafter (in all schools) and I like it that way.

If your playing characters know provisioning & alchemy you can always make food, drink, & potions when needed during your gameplay and without an interruption to change characters. Plus, unlocking the crafting level necessary for useful skills will be easily done while leveling the crafts anyhow.

Remember that while your main character(s) will eventually have plenty of skill points, it can be difficult to gather sufficient levels & skill points on a character designed solely around crafting. However, if you are creating a dedicated crafter, Orcs should be considered because they receive an inherant 10% boost to crafting inspiration. Also of note, high level Orcs can choose the Swift Warrior passive which increases sprint speeds while reducing sprint cost for faster gathering runs.

Gathering runs include lots of time sprinting. The Steed Mundus Stone's bonus to movement speed and medium armor with the well-fitted trait and stamina enchantments will aid in gathering runs. Consider using armor sets whose bonus includes a boost to stamina, such as Night's Silence, Hunding's Rage, and Eternal Hunt.

Have you just hit CP 160? Congratulations! Now prepare to spend a lot of materials to make your final gear... Each weapon or piece of armor can require most of a stack of rubedite ore, rubedo leather, ancestor silk or ruby ash wood. Age-old wisdom has it that weapons show the biggest difference, so first craft a gold-quality version of your weapon. Until you've gathered sufficient resources to craft CP 160 armor (or perhaps even longer) wear CP 150 armor pieces improved to purple quality.

If you have Champion Points to spend, place 30 thief points into Sprinter in The Tower and 10-75 points into The Lover. 30 points on The Tower boosts all crafting inspiration 20% and placing those points into Sprinter will help you gather resources faster. The first 10 points in The Lover grants Plentiful Harvest, which doubles the yield when harvesting from crafting nodes. If you place a total of 75 points in The Lover you reduce the time to actually gather from a node by 50% which can make it easier to grab materials before being attacked. If your character's main focus is crafting, consider focusing on the Mooncalf aspect of The Lover as it will allow you to sprint more while gathering resources.

edit in Dec, 2020 to change URLs

helediron

Tevalaur wrote: »

...snip...
One trick I wish I had used when researching traits: study light armor and heavy armor on your main crafter while initially studying medium armor and metal weapons on another. Eventually consolidate these traits by having your alt make study items for your main crafter (once all traits are learned), but it will greatly reduce the amount of time before being able to make the best set pieces.
...snip...

There is one pitfall, if targeting to nine traits. Potent nirncrux is still rare and more expensive than fortified. I would in that case put the main crafter researching blacksmith weapons. That way we avoid spending twice the potent ones during consolidation.

Tevalaur

helediron wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

...snip...
One trick I wish I had used when researching traits: study light armor and heavy armor on your main crafter while initially studying medium armor and metal weapons on another. Eventually consolidate these traits by having your alt make study items for your main crafter (once all traits are learned), but it will greatly reduce the amount of time before being able to make the best set pieces.
...snip...

There is one pitfall, if targeting to nine traits. Potent nirncrux is still rare and more expensive than fortified. I would in that case put the main crafter researching blacksmith weapons. That way we avoid spending twice the potent ones during consolidation.

I was thinking that most folks that invest in the expensive motif styles would only need one weapon motif for whatever kind of weapon they use if it needed duplicated but in the case of armor might need a significant investment to make various style armors without a major delay.

@helediron
What are your thoughts in light of that?

edit:
P.S. By the same token, should recommend light/medium split with whichever one is more likely to wear being researched on the main.

helediron

Tevalaur wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

...snip...
One trick I wish I had used when researching traits: study light armor and heavy armor on your main crafter while initially studying medium armor and metal weapons on another. Eventually consolidate these traits by having your alt make study items for your main crafter (once all traits are learned), but it will greatly reduce the amount of time before being able to make the best set pieces.
...snip...

There is one pitfall, if targeting to nine traits. Potent nirncrux is still rare and more expensive than fortified. I would in that case put the main crafter researching blacksmith weapons. That way we avoid spending twice the potent ones during consolidation.

I was thinking that most folks that invest in the expensive motif styles would only need one weapon motif for whatever kind of weapon they use if it needed duplicated but in the case of armor might need a significant investment to make various style armors without a major delay.

@helediron
What are your thoughts in light of that?

edit:
P.S. By the same token, should recommend light/medium split with whichever one is more likely to wear being researched on the main.

I think we need to keep in mind the short term and long term goals. Also ambition level matters. Only those crafters who decide to reach omnipotency in crafting in minimum time have to think these issues.

The first goal is the ability to make preferred five piece armour sets and main weapons. It can be light, medium or heavy, and it's totally personal preference. Main crafter always concentrates to them. If a crafter wants to make not-so-important gear, it can be delegated to helper crafter during first year.

The consolidating comes later, and the dilemma is to match early goals with later. I think the best guidance for upcoming crafters is to show the advantage of helper crafters but also list the pitfalls they create. Nine traits to all, expensive motifs and having all recipes; they have in common that it is easy to start investing too much to helper crafters, and they accidentally turn to main crafters.

This is an optimization problem between time to reach omnipotency against cost of reaching it. Ambitious crafters can consciously decide to split crafting to multiple crafters, and later pay the price of consolidation. Casual crafters can slowly build their one crafter or decide never e.g. collect rare motifs.

Tevalaur

helediron wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

Tevalaur wrote: »

...snip...
One trick I wish I had used when researching traits: study light armor and heavy armor on your main crafter while initially studying medium armor and metal weapons on another. Eventually consolidate these traits by having your alt make study items for your main crafter (once all traits are learned), but it will greatly reduce the amount of time before being able to make the best set pieces.
...snip...

There is one pitfall, if targeting to nine traits. Potent nirncrux is still rare and more expensive than fortified. I would in that case put the main crafter researching blacksmith weapons. That way we avoid spending twice the potent ones during consolidation.

I was thinking that most folks that invest in the expensive motif styles would only need one weapon motif for whatever kind of weapon they use if it needed duplicated but in the case of armor might need a significant investment to make various style armors without a major delay.

@helediron
What are your thoughts in light of that?

edit:
P.S. By the same token, should recommend light/medium split with whichever one is more likely to wear being researched on the main.

I think we need to keep in mind the short term and long term goals. Also ambition level matters. Only those crafters who decide to reach omnipotency in crafting in minimum time have to think these issues.

The first goal is the ability to make preferred five piece armour sets and main weapons. It can be light, medium or heavy, and it's totally personal preference. Main crafter always concentrates to them. If a crafter wants to make not-so-important gear, it can be delegated to helper crafter during first year.

The consolidating comes later, and the dilemma is to match early goals with later. I think the best guidance for upcoming crafters is to show the advantage of helper crafters but also list the pitfalls they create. Nine traits to all, expensive motifs and having all recipes; they have in common that it is easy to start investing too much to helper crafters, and they accidentally turn to main crafters.

This is an optimization problem between time to reach omnipotency against cost of reaching it. Ambitious crafters can consciously decide to split crafting to multiple crafters, and later pay the price of consolidation. Casual crafters can slowly build their one crafter or decide never e.g. collect rare motifs.

Agreed, and I definitely don't suggest keeping the trait research split indefinitely. I think I write out rather clearly that this is a stop-gap to enable making the pieces before being able to have all traits researched on the main crafter.

The question is about how to split, not how/why to consolidate. You suggest splitting based on nirncrux's prices, I'm suggesting keeping the weapons trait research primarily on the alt until ready to consolidate because one is more likely (in my estimation) to want to change armor styles during that interim while traits are split (thereby saving on motif costs).

As I have it written now, I suggest: "One trick I wish I had used when researching traits: study either light or medium armor (whichever you are more likely to actually wear) and heavy armor on your main crafter while initially studying light/medium (the other option) armor and metal weapons on another character. Then consolidate traits by having that alt make study items for your main crafter. This saves no overall time, and eventually all traits are learned on your main crafter anyhow, but does greatly reduce the time before being able to make the best set pieces."

Tevalaur

Edited the original post today to add a link to the new page on Housing & Furnishings as well.

Tevalaur

Typically I have drafts ready to upload upon the launch of a major update but I simply was unable to do so this time. Due to a death in the family in May, I was unable to prepare from the PTS so website updates were instead finalized in the first week of June, 2017. All pertinent information should now be considered updated!

Taleof2Cities

Very nice work on the latest Housing & Furnishings update, @Tevalaur!

The embedded spreadsheets don't clutter the page layout and look quite professional.

I don't think many players (including this player) noticed the delay to be honest ... my nose has been in the new content.

Tevalaur

This weekend's edits:
EDIT: June 18/19, 2017 - 3 major edits:
1. Noticed that I'd not updated these links/overview to include the separate page on Craftable Sets and a few other recent layout changes/enhancements, so updated the overall list/links
2. Added Master Writs to the Alchemy Guide and enhanced the organization within the tables of alchemical recipes
3. Reworked the Styles page, publicly revealing the design of a long-planned and finally underway renovation of this section.

Tevalaur

Summerset brings Jewelry Crafting to ESO, and this week we published Sunshine Daydream's Guide to Jewelry Crafting:

Jewelry Crafting

• All About Materials
• Plating Jewelry to Improve It
• Skill Progression
• Leveling Jewelry Crafting
  • Jewelry Writs
• Traits on Necklaces & Rings
• Research is a Long-term Process

EDIT: May 26, 2018 - the original post in this thread was edited to add the new section for Jewelry crafting, several major changes in Alchemy, new subsection in Traits, and updated several other sections for Summerset

EDIT: Dec, 2020 to change URLs