Is it time to make PvE gear bound on equip?

daemonios

RNG needs fixing, and this is the best way to do it in my opinion. This is why:

1. The current state of the game is essentially unfair and frustrating. No matter how many times you grind VMA, vICP, vWGT or vMoL, you can and often do get away with nothing at all, or gear that you have no use for and are stuck with because it's BoP. There is no connection between effort and reward. It needs to be changed.
2. Merely fiddling with the RNG wouldn't be enough. As long as the chance to get a piece of gear is random, there will always be unlucky outliers who never get theirs.
3. A re-trait system is not the answer. If you could simply re-trait any piece, then it would never matter which piece drops for you - you's simply change the trait to whatever you want. We might as well get blanks and apply our favourite traits, just as we do for enchantments.
4. Tokens would also not be optimal IMO. With such a system, all you'd need to do is farm enough tokens to get the gear you want. There would be no incentive whatsoever to run content again after you've got your gear, assuming tokens would be bound - and I've never seen any game where these types of system aren't bound.
5. PvP gear is already BoE, meaning it can be sold to other players. And it does get sold, often for very high prices depending on the specific set, piece and trait. Making PvE gear BoE would simply apply the same rules to both aspects of the game.
6. Making gear BoE solves the RNG issue and provide several advantages:
- It would solve the RNG issue by providing an alternative way of getting gear if the RNG gods don't smile on you;
- By keeping the RNG and making gear BoE, the rarity of certain items can still be controlled by the devs to a certain extent;
- BoE gear that you don't need would provide a much-needed source of income to PvE players, similarly to what happens in PvP;
- Making gear BoE instead of implementing any of the other fixes would create an incentive to keep running the content, since you could still be farming your gear or you could simply be farming gear to sell to other players;
- Gear sales would provide a gold sink through guild store listing and sales taxes.

So what does the community say? Is it time ZOS made PvE gear BoE, fixing the RNG issue once and for all and making the game more fair and balanced?

Destyran

I vote none. Because people who are in trade guilds would charge millions of pointless gold for it. Make a lower gold cap or make everything bop but better rng or purchases with tokens. They coulda at least added multiple chests in vicp and vwgt so you can open a named armour set chest and get a random piece of that set and so so

LadyNalcarya

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

Destyran wrote: »

I vote none. Because people who are in trade guilds would charge millions of pointless gold for it. Make a lower gold cap or make everything bop but better rng or purchases with tokens.

But pvpers can sell popular sets for tons of gold already... At the first week, I saw some Vicious Death jewelry pieces being sold for 700-800k. Though now the price dropped drastically, even for necklaces (that werent at AP merchant). Its just a simple supply/demand system.
Worm cult jewelry is still expensive, but mainly because of that stupid loot timer, and because certain casual player's icon added it to their build.

Edit: also, all rewards for the worthy and random boxes loot is BoE so there's an unfair disparity between tradeable pvp gear and non-tradeable pve items.

Samphaa

You say with a token system there would be no incentive to go back in there after you've got what you want.

Isn't that the point of farming gear, why would I continue to run something I've already ran 100 times and am sick of the sight of after I've already got my stuff?

Neophyte

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

Yes because you can farm to sell rare items like scathing Mage/imperium set/overwhelming/vmsa gear

Rex-Umbra

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

Yes please. I can't believe Orsinium sets are all still bop.

daemonios

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

Destyran wrote: »

I vote none. Because people who are in trade guilds would charge millions of pointless gold for it. Make a lower gold cap or make everything bop but better rng or purchases with tokens. They coulda at least added multiple chests in vicp and vwgt so you can open a named armour set chest and get a random piece of that set and so so

Right now you can only get gear if you get lucky. With BoE you could also buy it. The price would depend on rarity. How is it bad to have 2 options instead of just one? Also, this seems to work for PvP, why not PvE?

Samphaa wrote: »

You say with a token system there would be no incentive to go back in there after you've got what you want.

Isn't that the point of farming gear, why would I continue to run something I've already ran 100 times and am sick of the sight of after I've already got my stuff?

That's exactly the point. Right now there are 2 problems: one, you might never get your gear; two, if and when you do, there's no incentive to run the content again. With BoE gear both problems would be fixed - you can buy gear you weren't lucky enough to get, and you can run content and sell unneeded/duplicate pieces even after you're all geared up.

You might say people could run the content just for the fun of it. Problem is, there isn't so much new content that the "fun" outweighs the repetitiveness. This is why MMOs need a carrot on a stick, but the carrot we have now in ESO - the broken RNG system - is rotten.

NeillMcAttack

For many sets, sure! Orsinium gear especially. But maelstrom gear? Monster helms? I don't think so. Basically the best way to get the best in stock gear would be to play the markets. The most OP class in the game would be the full time trader : D

And also, how can you say that a token system would remove incentive to re-play content, but the ability to purchase it outright wouldn't?!? That I'm sure you can agree makes zero sense!

And finally, you will have to trust me when I tell you that there is no money to be made in PvP compared to PvE! I ask to trust me because I know that you don't PvP, I know that because if you did you would know that. Unless of course you consistently finish in the top 2% of players in your faction, then you can make pretty good gold.

Cr4p0w3

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

I would like this to happen.
It will alow me to help some friends that don't have to much time to grind dungeons by giving them the items that I already have or don't want.
I could even trade those ones for something I need.

Cously

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

Special loot like monster helmets, monster shoulders, master weapons, should be BOP. Everything else BOE. I don't play stamina classes but always get stamina loot I can't vendor or give to my friends, it's frustrating.

MarcoPolo

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

Definitely yes, not monster sets (even though id give someone 20billion gold for a kena helm) but definitely some of the other stuff

Rune_Relic

grind > rng bop > junk/decon
grind > rng bop > recraft (makes crafting community relevant to PvE)
grind > rng boe > gold > gear trader (makes trading community relevant to PvE)

The problem is not RNG from what I have been able to make out.
The problem is mutiple layers of RNG....in effect.. stacking improbabilites

The recraft option does not remove RNG.
The recraft option does not remove the work to get the gear.
The recraft option removes one of the layers that stacks improbabilities.
This making the RNG tolerable instead of redundant.

Having said that all gear should be equally viable...but build dependant.
ie. equal worth.
Anything having excessive worht is coveted over all else specifically because it is OP.
So at the end of the day no gear should be receiving special attention protection or gating...just rebalancing.
When gear is balanced.....BiS is irrelevant... along with drop rates and rarity.
Only requirement is gear is associated with specific locations and/or styles

BucFanJKE

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

I don't see why it isn't bind on equip anyways. It makes sense for everyone. I can have an entire vicious death set without ever having been in PVP, but the people that have grinded wgt to get the traits they want could easily have 5-100 extra pieces (of each slot) that they can't even sell and just have to hold onto (taking bank space) or deconstruct, when someone who only does PVP would very likely buy it.

It would definitely give people more incentives to continue running content since now they can actually make profit off it. It helps your lower and middle class people because now they have an additional way for income, and it helps your higher class players who have stupid amounts of gold by allowing them to outright buy pieces and do the content they prefer.

daemonios

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

For many sets, sure! Orsinium gear especially. But maelstrom gear? Monster helms? I don't think so. Basically the best way to get the best in stock gear would be to play the markets. The most OP class in the game would be the full time trader : D

News flash: monster sets are already purchasable at an NPC vendor So much for keeping the best gear for people who run the content... To be honest I can't think of a single reason why some gear should be reserved for people lucky and competent enough to clear all content. What do players or the game profit from such a system? Bragging rights? Not good enough an excuse, IMO. Still, if Maelstrom weapons were BoP and everything else was BoE, that would already be a huge improvement. But if that's the case, monster sets should return to the previous state where you need to grind dungeons/undaunted chests to get them.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

And also, how can you say that a token system would remove incentive to re-play content, but the ability to purchase it outright wouldn't?!? That I'm sure you can agree makes zero sense!

I don't follow... I think I made it pretty clear. With the current BoP system, just as with tokens, once you get all the gear you want/need there is nothing for you in the current content. Zero. With BoE gear, players can run the content as often as they wish and the gold they could make from good drops would provide its own incentive.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

And finally, you will have to trust me when I tell you that there is no money to be made in PvP compared to PvE! I ask to trust me because I know that you don't PvP, I know that because if you did you would know that. Unless of course you consistently finish in the top 2% of players in your faction, then you can make pretty good gold.

You're right, I don't PvP much. But I've seen Leki/Vicious Death/other PvP sets for sale at guild traders. Why can one part of the player base trade gear among themselves while the other can't?

NeillMcAttack

daemonios wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

For many sets, sure! Orsinium gear especially. But maelstrom gear? Monster helms? I don't think so. Basically the best way to get the best in stock gear would be to play the markets. The most OP class in the game would be the full time trader : D

News flash: monster helms are already available for purchase

What? You mean the, once a week, always infused, 90k gold or 200k AP, bound, still subject to RNG stuff You can buy in Cyrodiil. Truly game breaking.

What about the other points I make, are you here for a discussion, or to launch a petition? Can you not see the obvious value in not making 'some' stuff BoP? Do you not see the naivety in suggesting that enough gold should be able to acquire everything in the game?

daemonios

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

grind > rng bop > junk/decon
grind > rng bop > recraft (makes crafting community relevant to PvE)
grind > rng boe > gold > gear trader (makes trading community relevant to PvE)

The problem is not RNG from what I have been able to make out.
The problem is mutiple layers of RNG....in effect.. stacking improbabilites

The recraft option does not remove RNG.
The recraft option does not remove the work to get the gear.
The recraft option removes one of the layers that stacks improbabilities.
This making the RNG tolerable instead of redundant.

Having said that all gear should be equally viable...but build dependant.
ie. equal worth.
Anything having excessive worht is coveted over all else specifically because it is OP.
So at the end of the day no gear should be receiving special attention protection or gating...just rebalancing.
When gear is balanced.....BiS is irrelevant... along with drop rates and rarity.
Only requirement is gear is associated with specific locations and/or styles

I confess I strongly dislike the retraiting option. One of the reasons I already stated in my OP: it would make all traits equivalent, because you could always change them. That has a positive side (no more hundreds of runs only to get the piece you need with the wrong trait) but also a negative side (the only difference between gear traits would be whether they're the right ones to begin with, or whether they need to be changed after getting them).

In addition, there would still be a possibility that you can't get a specific piece of gear, regardless of trait. I still don't have all the pieces from the ICP/WGT sets, even in well-fitted, although I've run these dungeons hundreds of times each.

As for balancing, I have to cut ZOS some slack here. It's impossible to perfectly balance a game like this. At most you can act quickly if you catch something becoming simply too overpowered. That said, unfortunately in ESO we have neither balance nor quick actions from the devs...

daemonios

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

For many sets, sure! Orsinium gear especially. But maelstrom gear? Monster helms? I don't think so. Basically the best way to get the best in stock gear would be to play the markets. The most OP class in the game would be the full time trader : D

News flash: monster helms are already available for purchase

What? You mean the, once a week, always infused, 90k gold or 200k AP, bound, still subject to RNG stuff You can buy in Cyrodiil. Truly game breaking.

What about the other points I make, are you here for a discussion, or to launch a petition? Can you not see the obvious value in not making 'some' stuff BoP? Do you not see the naivety in suggesting that enough gold should be able to acquire everything in the game?

Yes, I mean that one. ZOS have opened Pandora's box and offered gear for gold that you used to have to farm.

I replied to all your comments, point by point. I was posting from my phone and somehow messed it up, so the post that initially appeared was cut short. If you go back now you can see my replies.

Regarding the "value in not making 'some' stuff BoP" (I think you meant not making it BoE), as I said in my reply: what does the game benefit from it, seriously? You don't answer this question yourself, you just state that there is "obvious" value. It's not obvious to me.

Acharnor

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

I dont have an MMO background and still can't fully appreciate BoP. I want to be able to do whatever I want with this stuff - wear it, give it away, sell it. Why some gear is and some is not is confusing. BoE sounds right.

NeillMcAttack

daemonios wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

For many sets, sure! Orsinium gear especially. But maelstrom gear? Monster helms? I don't think so. Basically the best way to get the best in stock gear would be to play the markets. The most OP class in the game would be the full time trader : D

News flash: monster helms are already available for purchase

What? You mean the, once a week, always infused, 90k gold or 200k AP, bound, still subject to RNG stuff You can buy in Cyrodiil. Truly game breaking.

What about the other points I make, are you here for a discussion, or to launch a petition? Can you not see the obvious value in not making 'some' stuff BoP? Do you not see the naivety in suggesting that enough gold should be able to acquire everything in the game?

Yes, I mean that one. ZOS have opened Pandora's box and offered gear for gold that you used to have to farm.

I replied to all your comments, point by point. I was posting from my phone and somehow messed it up, so the post that initially appeared was cut short. If you go back now you can see my replies.

Regarding the "value in not making 'some' stuff BoP" (I think you meant not making it BoE), as I said in my reply: what does the game benefit from it, seriously? You don't answer this question yourself, you just state that there is "obvious" value. It's not obvious to me.

Apologies, I see that now! 'Not BoE' and BoP (Bind on Pick up), same thing really.

Anyway, the obvious value comes from them being hard to obtain. It then makes them much more valuable to those that actually have them. I'm not here to argue against making more sets BoE. And I hate RNG as much the next man. I just see the value, from a dev perspective most of all, of having it this way. Fact of the matter is that everyone wants what others don't have. Be that through achievement or through luck. People don't care as long as they have it. I'm personally not one of those but I still understand that that is what people are like.

A token system is what I feel would work best. The whole Deadric Embers and shackles thing being just another shot at RNG is silly to me. They should have allowed them to be spent more specifically on what people were after. It in no way removes incentive to run the content, and doesn't hand control of all the rarest sets over to those with more gold than others. Because that is what you are suggesting. You would basically make it more reliable to run around farming nodes, crafting consumables to sell, and playing the market than actually running the content to recieve what it is you are after. I would hate this. It would mean all those with loads of time for these kinds of boring "activities" would be the most powerful theoretically, yet the least skillful and knowledgeable of the game in practice. Honestly sounds painful to me.

Xjcon

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

I honestly don't understand why all gear isn't Boe. When gear from VDSA sold for a good amount of gold I loved farming it for the chance to sell jewelry. If I could sell scathing mage pieces or spell power cure pieces, I would be farming those places anytime I could get a group to go. Same thing goes for VMA if weapons were BOE I would be in there in between group runs trying to get the weapon someone else needs.

I don't see why it's OK to sell PVP sets but not PVE sets.

Autolycus

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

It was time for this a year ago.

Neophyte

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

Forgot to mention if you farmed the BOP items and had the ability to sell them, people would say " that would take the fun away and people would stop doing the dungeons etc. Well I still do the daily quests and I have all the helms/shoulders I need. I will always run wgt/prison because it's still fun.

Xjcon

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

Kingbawsack wrote: »

Forgot to mention if you farmed the BOP items and had the ability to sell them, people would say " that would take the fun away and people would stop doing the dungeons etc. Well I still do the daily quests and I have all the helms/shoulders I need. I will always run wgt/prison because it's still fun.

I would be doing them more them ever trying to find pieces to sell. At one point in this game I was able to sustain my potion habit by selling drops, now I'm stuck wandering around picking flowers in my free time.

Wolfchild07

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

I cannot even be bothered trying to collect sets. It's not fun. It's a chore...it's work. I don't get paid to play this game.

There are so many sets now that it would take way too long to get them, or at least the ones I want. The enjoyment comes from using different gear, not grinding for it.

I'll just stick to crafting gear, I guess, as stale as that has become.

waterfairy

No, I don't think making gear BoE is the answer.

I don't like bound items of any type as it prevents me from sharing with my friend.

Miszou

I don't mind the RNG on gear so much... But opening six Wrothgar Rewards and finding nothing but VR15 decon material is getting kinda old.

I'll try out any set (regardless of traits), if I can actually find the set pieces to experiment with. And I can always run the bosses again to try and get better traits. I'm cool with that. At least I have *something*, and the carrot is still there to coax me into trying again.

But finding six pieces deconstruction junk isn't exactly motivating me to keep doing it...

Oreyn_Bearclaw

No, I don't think making gear BoE is the answer.

My only problem with straight BOE across the board is that I believe certain items should be content gated. Sorry, but if you cant clear ICP you dont get scathing. If you cant clear VMA, you dont get weapons. Maybe that makes me an elitist, I dont know.

That being said, you make some very valid points. The biggest one is that PVP players get to sell basically anything they get. It also sounds like next patch will be another one where anyone sitting on hoards of AP will get rich again. That is very frustrating. I used to make gold in this game by, you know, playing the game. This can still be true in PVP (especially next patch), but it is not true of PVE in the slightest. The only way to make money in PVE is to grind/farm, which sucks plain and simple.

Step one to fixing anything is to identify the problem. Certainly, there is a problem. If the choice was given to me and it was between keep the status quo or make everything BOE, I would choose BOE no question. That being said, I think there might be a better way to get there.

First: Bind on Group would be a great place to start. This would solve a ton of issues pretty much everywhere except VMA.

Second: Trait change. I think the misconception here is that I dont want a crafter to be able to walk up to a station and change a whole set with little to no effort. I want it to be difficult and create a meaningful choice, but it should be reasonably possible.

Third: A mix of BOE and BOP would be nice. A few straight BOE sets would certainly help with PVEers and their current lack of gold making capabilities. I also like the idea of making items BOE after they have been out for a few months. Scathing was fine as a BOP set for the first patch or two, but it might make sense to change to BOE after a while so people can round out their sets.

Fourth: A Token system is always talked about. I dont love this because it feels artificial, but again, certainly better than how it is now. If they were to do this, I would like to see it implemented on top of the current system so people can still get lucky. You farm 3-4 good pieces and by that time you have enough tokens to buy what you need to finish.

Fifth: Trading of Like items would also go a long way. Make it so I could trade a VMA dagger for a bow or a scathing sash for a scathing robe. This would keep items content gated, but greatly reduce the frustration. It could also be a source of gold I suppose, because there would likely be now way to prevent gold as part of the exchange, but I dont think that's an issue.

Xjcon

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

My only problem with straight BOE across the board is that I believe certain items should be content gated. Sorry, but if you cant clear ICP you dont get scathing. If you cant clear VMA, you dont get weapons. Maybe that makes me an elitist, I dont know.

That being said, you make some very valid points. The biggest one is that PVP players get to sell basically anything they get. It also sounds like next patch will be another one where anyone sitting on hoards of AP will get rich again. That is very frustrating. I used to make gold in this game by, you know, playing the game. This can still be true in PVP (especially next patch), but it is not true of PVE in the slightest. The only way to make money in PVE is to grind/farm, which sucks plain and simple.

Step one to fixing anything is to identify the problem. Certainly, there is a problem. If the choice was given to me and it was between keep the status quo or make everything BOE, I would choose BOE no question. That being said, I think there might be a better way to get there.

First: Bind on Group would be a great place to start. This would solve a ton of issues pretty much everywhere except VMA.

Second: Trait change. I think the misconception here is that I dont want a crafter to be able to walk up to a station and change a whole set with little to no effort. I want it to be difficult and create a meaningful choice, but it should be reasonably possible.

Third: A mix of BOE and BOP would be nice. A few straight BOE sets would certainly help with PVEers and their current lack of gold making capabilities. I also like the idea of making items BOE after they have been out for a few months. Scathing was fine as a BOP set for the first patch or two, but it might make sense to change to BOE after a while so people can round out their sets.

Fourth: A Token system is always talked about. I dont love this because it feels artificial, but again, certainly better than how it is now. If they were to do this, I would like to see it implemented on top of the current system so people can still get lucky. You farm 3-4 good pieces and by that time you have enough tokens to buy what you need to finish.

Fifth: Trading of Like items would also go a long way. Make it so I could trade a VMA dagger for a bow or a scathing sash for a scathing robe. This would keep items content gated, but greatly reduce the frustration. It could also be a source of gold I suppose, because there would likely be now way to prevent gold as part of the exchange, but I dont think that's an issue.

On one hand I agree with you about content gated gear, on the other what does it really matter if someone who can barely kill easy bosses gets BIS gear? The people who are already far ahead of those sorts of players will still be at the top.

I also agree that keeping certain things BOP for a limited time is a good idea, that way you reward the players who "Put in the hard yards" so to speak, but don't forever gate BIS gear from the rest of the community.

It's been confirmed that the group share feature is in the works so eventually we will see this.

All in all I want to be able to run dungeons for profit. I'm not at all fond of roaming around picking up material nodes to make gold.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

No, I don't think making gear BoE is the answer.

Xjcon wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

My only problem with straight BOE across the board is that I believe certain items should be content gated. Sorry, but if you cant clear ICP you dont get scathing. If you cant clear VMA, you dont get weapons. Maybe that makes me an elitist, I dont know.

That being said, you make some very valid points. The biggest one is that PVP players get to sell basically anything they get. It also sounds like next patch will be another one where anyone sitting on hoards of AP will get rich again. That is very frustrating. I used to make gold in this game by, you know, playing the game. This can still be true in PVP (especially next patch), but it is not true of PVE in the slightest. The only way to make money in PVE is to grind/farm, which sucks plain and simple.

Step one to fixing anything is to identify the problem. Certainly, there is a problem. If the choice was given to me and it was between keep the status quo or make everything BOE, I would choose BOE no question. That being said, I think there might be a better way to get there.

First: Bind on Group would be a great place to start. This would solve a ton of issues pretty much everywhere except VMA.

Second: Trait change. I think the misconception here is that I dont want a crafter to be able to walk up to a station and change a whole set with little to no effort. I want it to be difficult and create a meaningful choice, but it should be reasonably possible.

Third: A mix of BOE and BOP would be nice. A few straight BOE sets would certainly help with PVEers and their current lack of gold making capabilities. I also like the idea of making items BOE after they have been out for a few months. Scathing was fine as a BOP set for the first patch or two, but it might make sense to change to BOE after a while so people can round out their sets.

Fourth: A Token system is always talked about. I dont love this because it feels artificial, but again, certainly better than how it is now. If they were to do this, I would like to see it implemented on top of the current system so people can still get lucky. You farm 3-4 good pieces and by that time you have enough tokens to buy what you need to finish.

Fifth: Trading of Like items would also go a long way. Make it so I could trade a VMA dagger for a bow or a scathing sash for a scathing robe. This would keep items content gated, but greatly reduce the frustration. It could also be a source of gold I suppose, because there would likely be now way to prevent gold as part of the exchange, but I dont think that's an issue.

On one hand I agree with you about content gated gear, on the other what does it really matter if someone who can barely kill easy bosses gets BIS gear? The people who are already far ahead of those sorts of players will still be at the top.

I also agree that keeping certain things BOP for a limited time is a good idea, that way you reward the players who "Put in the hard yards" so to speak, but don't forever gate BIS gear from the rest of the community.

It's been confirmed that the group share feature is in the works so eventually we will see this.

All in all I want to be able to run dungeons for profit. I'm not at all fond of roaming around picking up material nodes to make gold.

That part I cannot disagree with in the slightest. I too wish that my hundreds of ICP/WGT runs actually provided me with some gold. As I said before, I would certainly cave on my position about content gated gear if that meant they would actually do SOMETHING. Status quo is slowly driving the core players away from this game.

Edit: And you are right, at this point I dont care too much if some pug gets his hands on a VMA staff. People are paying for clears and titles anyways. Might as well legitimize the profits for the rest of us. WTS VMA Resto staff x37. Haha

Cuyler

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

daemonios wrote: »

4. Tokens would also not be optimal IMO. With such a system, all you'd need to do is farm enough tokens to get the gear you want. There would be no incentive whatsoever to run content again after you've got your gear, assuming tokens would be bound - and I've never seen any game where these types of system aren't bound.

This is the only thing I disagree with. I strongly disagree with making the only incentive to playing an instance to grind endlessly for a particular piece. If that is the only incentive, then that hints a much bigger problem with the content. Such is the case with vMA, a majority just don't like the content. Point is tokens are not the bad guy, they are a means to a players satisfaction for the efforts they put in which is what keeps people playing. The design of the content is the underlying issue in most cases, if it sucks people won't want to repeat it, simple really.

I agree with everything else tho, +1, good post.

daemonios

Yes, make PvE gear BoE.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Anyway, the obvious value comes from them being hard to obtain. It then makes them much more valuable to those that actually have them. I'm not here to argue against making more sets BoE. And I hate RNG as much the next man. I just see the value, from a dev perspective most of all, of having it this way. Fact of the matter is that everyone wants what others don't have. Be that through achievement or through luck. People don't care as long as they have it. I'm personally not one of those but I still understand that that is what people are like.

I understand what you're saying. I just don't see the value in it. I'm no better or worse off if someone else can get BiS gear. And the more this RNG situation lasts, the less I believe in the current system. IC has been out for 9 months and I still don't have complete sets from the dungeons there. Wrothgar has been out for 5 months and the same is true for the sets in that expansion. A grind that makes players not get the gear even after 2 new expansions is unacceptable. Let me be clear here: some people have never gotten and will never get some sets with this system.

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

A token system is what I feel would work best. The whole Deadric Embers and shackles thing being just another shot at RNG is silly to me. They should have allowed them to be spent more specifically on what people were after. It in no way removes incentive to run the content, and doesn't hand control of all the rarest sets over to those with more gold than others. Because that is what you are suggesting. You would basically make it more reliable to run around farming nodes, crafting consumables to sell, and playing the market than actually running the content to recieve what it is you are after. I would hate this. It would mean all those with loads of time for these kinds of boring "activities" would be the most powerful theoretically, yet the least skillful and knowledgeable of the game in practice. Honestly sounds painful to me.

A token system would be better than what we have now, and if ZOS decided to go that way, I'd be happy. But IMO it wouldn't be the best solution. As I said, tokens will allow you to complete your sets, but after you're done, you're done. BoE would make it worthwhile to keep running the content since you could always sell gear, just like you could once sell trial gear (yes, you can still sell it now, but ZOS in their infinite wisdom decided trial gear should remain VR14 until the end of time).

Cuyler wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

4. Tokens would also not be optimal IMO. With such a system, all you'd need to do is farm enough tokens to get the gear you want. There would be no incentive whatsoever to run content again after you've got your gear, assuming tokens would be bound - and I've never seen any game where these types of system aren't bound.

This is the only thing I disagree with. I strongly disagree with making the only incentive to playing an instance to grind endlessly for a particular piece. If that is the only incentive, then that hints a much bigger problem with the content. Such is the case with vMA, a majority just don't like the content. Point is tokens are not the bad guy, they are a means to a players satisfaction for the efforts they put in which is what keeps people playing. The design of the content is the underlying issue in most cases, if it sucks people won't want to repeat it, simple really.

I agree with everything else tho, +1, good post.

The truth is, after you've run a dungeon 100+ times, there's absolutely no novelty in it. Yes, I still do undaunted pledges for kicks... sometimes... But content gets old. Having BoE gear drop from vet dungeons and trials would (1) make it easier to complete your gear sets and eliminate the screaming injustice of some players never getting said gear because the gods of RNG forgot about them and (2) provide a further incentive to re-run older content even if it's just to monetize (in-game) any drops you may get.