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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – November 18
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
PROOF! Reinforced is BETTER than Nirnhoned armor! *PICS INCLUDED*
Djeriko
✭✭✭
So I did a little experiment on PTS since none of the dev's posted anything about Reinforced in the changes to the armor and weapon traits. Prior to the DB update I've noticed with the new number window in the inventory when I put Nirnhoned and Reinforced armor on.
Funny thing is Reinforced is actually better than Nirnhoned in EVERY way. Nirnhoned currently increases your spell resist at gold level at 24%. While Reinforced says it increases your armor by 16%... But funny thing is that currently Reinforced also increases your spell resist too.
Now with the PTS making Nirnhoned increase spell and armor by a flat number (301 at gold level), this is nothing compared to Reinforced that currently increases both spell and armor at higher numbers.
Don't believe me? Let's go to the screen shots!
Below is a character equipped with all heavy armor. In both pics the only thing that changes is the cuirass so watch the spell and armor numbers to the left.
First wearing Nirnhoned at gold level...
And now wearing Reinforced at gold level...
Still don't see it? I'll sum it up... With Nirnhoned, spell resist is 23922 and physical resist is 19962. And Reinforced gave us spell resist of 24064 and physical resist of 20104.
So why is a common trait so much better than a rare trait? And why is Nirnhoned costing so much in banks while reinforced is just thrown away?
Very funny ZOS!
Players, you are the ones being played....
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
P.S. ZOS,
While you are fixing this, find someone to be in charge of dyes that is not color blind! Ever since Glass was introduced, every armor after that has incorrectly programmed dyes. The new styles on PTS aren't worth the time if you keep producing new stuff that's uglier than the old stuff when someone tries to dye it.
Funny thing is Reinforced is actually better than Nirnhoned in EVERY way. Nirnhoned currently increases your spell resist at gold level at 24%. While Reinforced says it increases your armor by 16%... But funny thing is that currently Reinforced also increases your spell resist too.
Now with the PTS making Nirnhoned increase spell and armor by a flat number (301 at gold level), this is nothing compared to Reinforced that currently increases both spell and armor at higher numbers.
Don't believe me? Let's go to the screen shots!
Below is a character equipped with all heavy armor. In both pics the only thing that changes is the cuirass so watch the spell and armor numbers to the left.
First wearing Nirnhoned at gold level...
And now wearing Reinforced at gold level...
Still don't see it? I'll sum it up... With Nirnhoned, spell resist is 23922 and physical resist is 19962. And Reinforced gave us spell resist of 24064 and physical resist of 20104.
So why is a common trait so much better than a rare trait? And why is Nirnhoned costing so much in banks while reinforced is just thrown away?
Very funny ZOS!
Players, you are the ones being played....
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
P.S. ZOS,
While you are fixing this, find someone to be in charge of dyes that is not color blind! Ever since Glass was introduced, every armor after that has incorrectly programmed dyes. The new styles on PTS aren't worth the time if you keep producing new stuff that's uglier than the old stuff when someone tries to dye it.
"When in doubt, kill it with fire."
3
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Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Pretty sure I heared someone say reinforced is better on chest, Nirnhoned trumps is for other pieces though. Did you only try chest?4 -
Djeriko✭✭✭I'm pretty sure you are correct, Reinforced is awesome on the cuirass.
But how about on a helmet now shall we...
Reinforced is still better..."When in doubt, kill it with fire."1 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Try some of the items that have small armor values like belt, boots and gloves. My guess is that nirn may prove to be better as a flat value increase when the base number is low as in those 3 cases.1 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do you have an passives active for this or is this a flat value increase on base stats?
As if you have other passive skills or abilities increasing your armour or spell resistance surely the percentage will be better?@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭If the armor on the item is greater than 1881 Reinforced is better. If it's less Nirn is better. If it's for PvP Impen will give you more mitigation than either of those.10 -
Djeriko✭✭✭If the armor on the item is greater than 1881 Reinforced is better. If it's less Nirn is better. If it's for PvP Impen will give you more mitigation than either of those.
You're missing the POINT!
I'm not saying Reinforced is better than Impen.
The point of this post is to show ZOS that their numbers on Fortified Nirnhoned was nerfed too much. Nirnhoned and Reinforced both do the same thing but Reinforced does it with greater numbers! Why is a common trait increasing by higher numbers than a rare trait is what I'm trying to show. Also Reinforced I'm sure was intended to only increase physical resist but instead does spell resist. Maybe removing the Reinforced buff to spell resist may bring it back to a logical range but I say Nirnhoned needs to be higher. Not to mention, Defending weapon at max level does better than Nirnhoned armor trait in numbers but that's something else entirely.redspecter23 wrote: »Try some of the items that have small armor values like belt, boots and gloves. My guess is that nirn may prove to be better as a flat value increase when the base number is low as in those 3 cases.
Why would you not make the highest level armor at gold level?! What everyone should see is the end result so they know what they are working for before they learned they wasted their mats! Wasting gold temper mats makes everyone sad *face palm*Do you have an passives active for this or is this a flat value increase on base stats?
As if you have other passive skills or abilities increasing your armour or spell resistance surely the percentage will be better?
I do have passives on but passives don't care what trait you have working. They care what armor you have and all of these were done with heavy armor which they were. Also they were at max level (vet 16 equivalent) so the materials used are the same except for the trait mat. Keep it simple people! The only thing different between the two pics is the traits on the armors. Each pic taken seconds apart. I even made sure to use the same armor style.... as if that matters....
BTW guys if you want to see these numbers for yourself, GET ON THE PTS and craft it yourself. Make a Template character and get all those crafting mats to burn.
ALSO the only time ZOS will take what we say as a fact is if they have picture or video proof of it so the pics are more for ZOS than they are for players.Edited by Djeriko on May 23, 2016 8:03AM"When in doubt, kill it with fire."0 -
WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This the third thread now. Go do it again with a girdle, post results here.PC EU2 -
Duiwel✭✭✭✭✭
✭GJ OP! Well spotted my good man
Keep up the good work from now on I shall call thee Sherlock Holmes
@Duiwel:Join ORDER OF SITHIS We're recruiting! PC EU"Dear Brother. I do not spread rumours. I create them..."1 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The point of this post is to show ZOS that their numbers on Fortified Nirnhoned was nerfed too much. Nirnhoned and Reinforced both do the same thing but Reinforced does it with greater numbers!
That's inaccurate. Reinforced only does it in greater numbers in some cases. In other cases, nirnhoned is better. As pointed out in post #8, there is a cutoff point where one trait is better above, and another is better below.
This makes both traits useful, depending on how high the base armor is.
You say nirnhoned was nerfed too much, but what do you actually think it should be? Always better than reinforced? That would make reinforced a completely useless trait.
If you want to criticize something, criticize the fact that both traits do the same thing, but one is always better than the other for each particular piece of armor (making it into a newbie-trap). The traits should be different in a way that makes them both useful in different scenarios(for example, one should give naturally more spell resist, the other more physical resist, and player should decide which he wants more).Edited by Sharee on May 23, 2016 1:05PM5 -
AardvarkChips✭✭✭If that's the case, then the nirn would also have to be as readily available as the sardonyx. The OP is trying to point out that, for what amounts to an enormous amount of farming and luck, or money, you can earn a trait that is...maybe as good as the trait's you're tripping over on any given day. I fail to see any sense of balance in that, and question the judgment of those who do.
That being said, if this is what ZOS is going for, it would at least be nice for them to let us know how this is calculated, so we don't waste more time and gold, having to conduct redundant experiments.2 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭If the armor on the item is greater than 1881 Reinforced is better. If it's less Nirn is better. If it's for PvP Impen will give you more mitigation than either of those.
You're missing the POINT!
I'm not saying Reinforced is better than Impen.
The point of this post is to show ZOS that their numbers on Fortified Nirnhoned was nerfed too much. Nirnhoned and Reinforced both do the same thing but Reinforced does it with greater numbers! Why is a common trait increasing by higher numbers than a rare trait is what I'm trying to show. Also Reinforced I'm sure was intended to only increase physical resist but instead does spell resist. Maybe removing the Reinforced buff to spell resist may bring it back to a logical range but I say Nirnhoned needs to be higher. Not to mention, Defending weapon at max level does better than Nirnhoned armor trait in numbers but that's something else entirely.redspecter23 wrote: »Try some of the items that have small armor values like belt, boots and gloves. My guess is that nirn may prove to be better as a flat value increase when the base number is low as in those 3 cases.
Why would you not make the highest level armor at gold level?! What everyone should see is the end result so they know what they are working for before they learned they wasted their mats! Wasting gold temper mats makes everyone sad *face palm*Do you have an passives active for this or is this a flat value increase on base stats?
As if you have other passive skills or abilities increasing your armour or spell resistance surely the percentage will be better?
I do have passives on but passives don't care what trait you have working. They care what armor you have and all of these were done with heavy armor which they were. Also they were at max level (vet 16 equivalent) so the materials used are the same except for the trait mat. Keep it simple people! The only thing different between the two pics is the traits on the armors. Each pic taken seconds apart. I even made sure to use the same armor style.... as if that matters....
BTW guys if you want to see these numbers for yourself, GET ON THE PTS and craft it yourself. Make a Template character and get all those crafting mats to burn.
ALSO the only time ZOS will take what we say as a fact is if they have picture or video proof of it so the pics are more for ZOS than they are for players.
No, you are missing the point. Reinforced is only the better trait on four out of twenty-four pieces of armor. For every other piece of armor Nirn is better. It's fine how it is, and you are complaining about nothing.2 -
Serenityx✭✭✭
You say nirnhoned was nerfed too much, but what do you actually think it should be? Always better than reinforced? That would make reinforced a completely useless trait.
If you want to criticize something, criticize the fact that both traits do the same thing, but one is always better than the other for each particular piece of armor (making it into a newbie-trap). The traits should be different in a way that makes them both useful in different scenarios(for example, one should give naturally more spell resist, the other more physical resist, and player should decide which he wants more).
This lacks any kind of logic whatsoever...the thing is that nirns are extremely rare. So, of course it should be better over all in most situations.
You make it sounds like just because you have the gold to min/max your stats everyone else does do. Resistance is obviously a huge stat in this game for some builds, I dont see any issue with their being two traits that both affect this stat while one is common and the other is rarer>more costly>better. More common/accessible cheaper and not as good doesnt make it useless..Edited by Serenityx on May 23, 2016 6:29PM0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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You say nirnhoned was nerfed too much, but what do you actually think it should be? Always better than reinforced? That would make reinforced a completely useless trait.
If you want to criticize something, criticize the fact that both traits do the same thing, but one is always better than the other for each particular piece of armor (making it into a newbie-trap). The traits should be different in a way that makes them both useful in different scenarios(for example, one should give naturally more spell resist, the other more physical resist, and player should decide which he wants more).
This lacks any kind of logic whatsoever...the thing is that nirns are extremely rare. So, of course it should be better over all in most situations.
You make it sounds like just because you have the gold to min/max your stats everyone else does do. Resistance is obviously a huge stat in this game for some builds, I dont see any issue with their being two traits that both affect this stat while one is common and the other is rarer>more costly>better. More common/accessible cheaper and not as good doesnt make it useless..
So basically, you want one of the traits completely useless unless you are poor.
There is already an advantage rich people with gold-quality gear have in PvP over those who can't afford it.
We don't need to extend that advantage to traits as well.Edited by Sharee on May 24, 2016 5:40AM0 -
Mike0987✭✭✭Reinforced should only increase physical resistance. Apparently like so many other things, its bugged.0 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You cant just equip full reinforced and then full nirn, and expect that to be a proper test. One is flat value on your stat, and one is your armor value.
It depends on what gear set, cp and what armor parts, just to name a few.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends2 -
Djeriko✭✭✭
How does that make sense? Look at the pictures people! If you doubt those then go onto the PTS yourself and craft a Nirnhoned and Reinforced armor item. It doesn't matter what you wear or what CP you use. Reinforced will ALWAYS produce higher spell and physical resist based on the numbers.
So I'll ask again, was Nirnhoned producing less than Reinforced intended?"When in doubt, kill it with fire."0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
How does that make sense? Look at the pictures people! If you doubt those then go onto the PTS yourself and craft a Nirnhoned and Reinforced armor item. It doesn't matter what you wear or what CP you use. Reinforced will ALWAYS produce higher spell and physical resist based on the numbers.
So I'll ask again, was Nirnhoned producing less than Reinforced intended?
Reinforced is a % increase and Nirnhoned is a flat increase and that has been mentioned many times in this thread already. Both have advantages depending on the armor you put it on. It's really quite simple math.1 -
Ajax_22✭✭✭✭✭
How does that make sense? Look at the pictures people! If you doubt those then go onto the PTS yourself and craft a Nirnhoned and Reinforced armor item. It doesn't matter what you wear or what CP you use. Reinforced will ALWAYS produce higher spell and physical resist based on the numbers.
So I'll ask again, was Nirnhoned producing less than Reinforced intended?
Did you miss the post where I said Reinforced is better than Nirnhoned for only four out of twenty-four pieces of armor? Take your own advice and go test more than a single piece of armor before you start declaring one trait better than the other.2
