Quick Question for the experienced PvP'er

phbell

I have been running in Cryodiil some lately with a PvP guild I am in and have a question. How is it that a single opponent, 1v1, can execute 5 or more skills in literally - not exaggerating - one second? This happens even on those rare occasions when the game is not lagging horribly. Also - how can a player drop an ultimate like meteor repeatedly?

Are these examples of the "exploits" and macros that I hear others refer to in TS? I am trying to understand how this happens because, while I don't mind dying, it robs PvP of most of the fun and seems wrong. I have experienced this with only a handful of opponents. Others I tangle with that beat me have to work at it and it is a much more spirited exchange. For me - a battle is fun, regardless of outcome. But to get dead in the first second feels like someone is cheating.

Help me understand, Please.

Sallington

how do you know they are executing 5 attacks in, literally, 1 second?

phbell

Sallington wrote: »

how do you know they are executing 5 attacks in, literally, 1 second?

I am dead one second after we engage and pressing the "T" key shows damage from 5 ( or more) different skills.

Ghost-Shot

That sounds like a combination of lag and animation canceling. Its possible they have things in macros but not likely, macro use is not nearly as common as these forums would have you believe. Also keep in mind some skills/items have procs or secondary effects that can show up as a different item on a death recap.

Kungfu

Actually 5 isn't hard to achieve if you stepped in some red.

If they laid some kind of ground effect with a DoT first, then hit you with light attack cancelled into [insert ability here] canceled by bash, you would see 5 damaging effects in the same global cooldown:
1 - Initial ground effect (see: mines, destro staff wall, DK burn circles, etc)
2 - light attack
3 - ability
4 - ground effect dot
5 - bash

For what it's worth, people misunderstand around here what macros do. They don't allow anyone to squeeze in extra attacks where a player couldn't achieve with some practice. On the contrary, when compared to a skilled player who performs canceling as muscle memory habit, the macro losses because it (a)locks the player into the predetermined rotation until the macro completes and (b)actually executes SLOWER than the player because the local pc takes an extra fraction of a second to finish the macro, close the command, and relinquish the keyboard back to user.

phbell

Kungfu wrote: »

Actually 5 isn't hard to achieve if you stepped in some red.

If they laid some kind of ground effect with a DoT first, then hit you with light attack cancelled into [insert ability here] canceled by bash, you would see 5 damaging effects in the same global cooldown:
1 - Initial ground effect (see: mines, destro staff wall, DK burn circles, etc)
2 - light attack
3 - ability
4 - ground effect dot
5 - bash

For what it's worth, people misunderstand around here what macros do. They don't allow anyone to squeeze in extra attacks where a player couldn't achieve with some practice. On the contrary, when compared to a skilled player who performs canceling as muscle memory habit, the macro losses because it (a)locks the player into the predetermined rotation until the macro completes and (b)actually executes SLOWER than the player because the local pc takes an extra fraction of a second to finish the macro, close the command, and relinquish the keyboard back to user.

Thank you!!!

While I cannot confirm my "standing in the Red" I get the rest of it and I really appreciate your taking the time to help me understand. One question for my clarity: "Animation Cancelling" is where I fire off a skill that takes time (e.g. biting jabs from the Aedric Spear) and execute a second skill while that first skill completes? Have i got that correct?

CasNation

Also, while DOT ticks from the same DOT will add up as one entry in the death recap, light attacks keep discreet entries, so:

1) Ambush
2) Light Attack
3) surprise attack
4) bash
5) Light Attack
6) killers blade

Is not only enough to kill you but can also be executed in 1-1.5 seconds by a skilled player.

Multiple meteors though....That would be an exploit.

FatKidHatchets

Animation canceling is done two ways.

Weaving - This is pressing a skill such as vampires bane right after pressing light attack. You weave a light attack between each ability to increase damage output.

The second is pressing block after starting an ability. With practice you can fire off 3 of ghe same ability in the time it takes 1 to cast.

Makkir

If you see meteor more than once on your death recap you might be seeing the DOT dmg that it also does when it hits the ground...

RebornV3x

It's just how it is at least once or twice a week I see some questionable stuff in pvp this game can be so random at times

Kungfu

@phbell. You sort of have it. I am on my phone so please forgive the link below if it fails.

The short version:
Animation canceling = click once for a light attack. IMMEDIATELY press your class / weapon / guild / armor skill. If you do it correctly, you'll never SEE your character perform the light attack but the damage is still delivered at the same time your ability damage lands. This does not work with two abilities. Only the "click and hold" kind of attacks.
I say it that way because there are a few different tricks that are similar in nature.

The second level of canceling is performing a bash right after the ability so you don't see IT happen either.

If the link below doesn't show up right, go to YouTube and search for "animation canceling"
I recommend the videos by Lefty Lucy and Deltia first and foremost.

https://youtu.be/BLZzGoPp9Ug

Kungfu

Oh and don't be disheartened by stepping in red stuff in pvp. It's MUCH easier to get hit by it there than in pve cuz your adrenaline is pumping, players ALWAYS place it better than mobs or bosses can, and Cyrodiil had this wonderful side effect of not always showing the stupid red area until it's too late.

Waffennacht

What OP described is known as "weaving" it does make moves a bit faster.

Animation Cancelling can be done with block or bash or roll dodge or weapon switch

If done too quickly with block or bash you can actually cancel the first ability. Roll dodge or switch will always successfully animation cancel and is usually faster tbh.

Now for the 5 attacks 1 sec:

Some abilities (typically bow abilities) have a travel time and when combined with weave and cancel will land them at the same time. Your opponent took a bit longer than it did for you to get hit by all of it.

RajinPVP

my fav combo in stam nb is
1. Light attack on bow
2. Tap Poison injection and swap bar
3. Ambush in
4. Surprise attack
5. To bash cancel
ill do a couple of 4 and 5 till i get him lower to execute but the 1-5 rotation happens in like 2 seconds window so i get what op is saying.. But you dont need macro for this or cheats to works.

AverageJo3Gam3r

The meteor animations could be valkyn skoria meteors, too, not the meteor ultimate. With that said, some builds generate ultimate very fast (bloodspawn, tavas favor, invigorating drain, shooting star).

phbell

1000 Thanks to all that offered advice and explanation. Given the drama over the Memorial Day weekend in Cryodiil there is another, more likely answer. They were just cheating.

Disappointing. Really has ruined PvP because now I will never know if I am beaten straight-up.

velocidad

Simple answer is always the right one. They were cheating.

This also happens to me, in the time i cast 1 skill they launch 5 and kill me before my 1 skill ended.

There should be some kind of cheting check for this kind of actions.

Lenikus

I kill people fairly easy with this combo, that can be done in 1 second by a newb;

1. Bow Heavy attack
2. Bow's Befouled weapon enchant
3. Poison Injection
4. Weapon Swap
5. Ambush
6. Light Attack
7. 2Hander's Weapon Enchant
8. Surprise Attack / Incapacitating Strike

If the person is not dead by the Ambush, the first tick from the poison injection kills it.
I rarely if ever go any further than the light attack in that, specially when the light attack procs the 2hander's enchant

# Edit;
A common rookie mistake was (back in the day) the person would see a recap like Heavy Attack, Camouflaged Hunter, Prismatic Weapon , Surprise Attack & Bash, and think "oh fluffing hax0rz he used 5 skills, while all the guy did was buff himself and press 2 buttons then the first one again.

velocidad

Lenikus wrote: »

I kill people fairly easy with this combo, that can be done in 1 second by a newb;

1. Bow Heavy attack
2. Bow's Befouled weapon enchant
3. Poison Injection
4. Weapon Swap
5. Ambush
6. Light Attack
7. 2Hander's Weapon Enchant
8. Surprise Attack / Incapacitating Strike

If the person is not dead by the Ambush, the first tick from the poison injection kills it.
I rarely if ever go any further than the light attack in that, specially when the light attack procs the 2hander's enchant

# Edit;
A common rookie mistake was (back in the day) the person would see a recap like Heavy Attack, Camouflaged Hunter, Prismatic Weapon , Surprise Attack & Bash, and think "oh fluffing hax0rz he used 5 skills, while all the guy did was buff himself and press 2 buttons then the first one again.

The time to perform 1, without cheat, takes from 1 to 2 seconds, and that's only 1 from 8 and without thinking. So for sure, you can perform all that in 1 second without cheat.

RoyJade

WIth a combat log such the one from FTC, we can see more precisely who is a cheater and who is not. A lot of time, my death recap show me incedible stuff, and my combat log say me tha they was one second between each "normal" skill, and the lag just don't show me everything.
But I can report without any problem when I see five surprise attack in the same second when every other player's skill was "normal" (so one attack/second).

Sharee

velocidad wrote: »

Lenikus wrote: »

I kill people fairly easy with this combo, that can be done in 1 second by a newb;

1. Bow Heavy attack
2. Bow's Befouled weapon enchant
3. Poison Injection
4. Weapon Swap
5. Ambush
6. Light Attack
7. 2Hander's Weapon Enchant
8. Surprise Attack / Incapacitating Strike

If the person is not dead by the Ambush, the first tick from the poison injection kills it.
I rarely if ever go any further than the light attack in that, specially when the light attack procs the 2hander's enchant

# Edit;
A common rookie mistake was (back in the day) the person would see a recap like Heavy Attack, Camouflaged Hunter, Prismatic Weapon , Surprise Attack & Bash, and think "oh fluffing hax0rz he used 5 skills, while all the guy did was buff himself and press 2 buttons then the first one again.

The time to perform 1, without cheat, takes from 1 to 2 seconds, and that's only 1 from 8 and without thinking. So for sure, you can perform all that in 1 second without cheat.

I think he counted the time from the point when the target starts taking damage(because that's how the victim is going to count how fast he died). So the cast time of bow heavy attack does not factor into it, since it happened before the target took damage.

If the target is far enough, it is possible to fire a bow heavy attack, poison injection, and swap weapons while the first two attacks are still flying though the air (and did not damage target yet). Then you use ambush which instantly teleports you, and the ambush damage lands right as the two arrows reach their target(or within a split second of each other)