Theory Crafting - Ice Knight

ParaNostram

So I'm playing around with a thought... After seeing the image at the bottom of this message, I started thinking about trying to create a somewhat viable hybrid build based around the following two sets, Winterborn (two rings, necklace, and any two of boots//belt//gloves) as well as 5/5 of the new crafted set, Pelinal (the set that makes your weapon damage and spell damage the highest of the two values). I already know part of the build, heavy armor//light armor split with an ice staff and a greatsword on the other bar, but I'm just not sure what class to use for this... I was thinking maybe Templar for having access to heals without a resto staff slotted. Any thoughts//ideas//suggestions?

I just think with the new Pelinal set, we have the potential to create some very interesting builds. It might not be the most effective set, hybrid builds likely will not be competitive still, but I think there's some real potential here.

ParaNostram

So I decided on a Dunmer Vampire Templar for the race and class, as well as adding the vampire because, well, bats and extra regeneration coupled with the mobility offered by Elusive Mist. Also, going to have to farm that Malestrom Greatsword and Ice Staff as those would play perfectly with this build. I made the build as best as I could in a skill calculator while trying to keep in mind the changes coming in DB to the skills. The only remaining issue is Champion Point distribution. It won't be the most powerful nor effective distribution but under the Warrior Tree I'll split the distribution three ways evenly between healing received, lessened elemental damage, and lessened physical damage. The Thief tree, stamina and magicka regeneration. Mage, split between elemental damage and physical damage. It might not be much, but as I do have full champion points it would work decently.

Here is the build as far as I've worked it.

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GreenSoup2HoT

Should of been a Nord. Dunmer probably is best though. I'm very interested in the set. Sound's fun.

susmitds

You are thinking in a good direction no doubt, but tbh from my tests in the PTS, the Pelinal's aptitude is only good on paper. Critical Strike chance and damage contributes more to the damage than Weapon Damage in PvE and in PvP, Champion points and max resource have a more importance than raw weapon damage. Even though weapon and spell damage is equalised, everything else is still split. Additionally, resource regeneration is also split and you will suffer from bad sustain. Also keep in mind that if you are using multiple spammable skills, then you are only using one at a time and further dampening your damage output.

ParaNostram

susmitds wrote: »

You are thinking in a good direction no doubt, but tbh from my tests in the PTS, the Pelinal's aptitude is only good on paper. Critical Strike chance and damage contributes more to the damage than Weapon Damage in PvE and in PvP, Champion points and max resource have a more importance than raw weapon damage. Even though weapon and spell damage is equalised, everything else is still split. Additionally, resource regeneration is also split and you will suffer from bad sustain. Also keep in mind that if you are using multiple spammable skills, then you are only using one at a time and further dampening your damage output.

I'm aware of these issues moving forward. I think the thief stone with full divines, or as much divines as possible, could help with the crit problems but that's neither here nor there, again not optimal. Resource regeneration would be taking a hit, however, cycling between the greatsword and the ice staff I think would allow resources time to recover. Stamina, truthfully, will be the side of it that needs the most help. I'd probably have to be running tripots but I could do that. Stamina is needed for roll dodging and cc breaking, PvP is my bread and butter, but fortunately with vampires in DB, essentially you can pop mist in place of dodge rolling, essentially opening up both resources for both purposes of utility and damage.

Anywho, good information, thank you for providing it, and I will try to take this into account moving forward. I want to make a hybrid build a reality, even if it will be difficult to play or sub optimal, just to prove it CAN be done. Also, this build is meant mostly for PvP. I'm a little rambly right now, just got done working.

Johngo0036

Check out Blob's NB build

Jim_Pipp

Really cool concept! I really like that you can see the build you want to have instead of wanting a min/max build.

I think hybrids may be more viable if we know what the resource pools are for. With Winterborn set your main damage will be magicka, so maybe stamina could be more utility (shuffle, Vigor, rally) and defense.

If you went 5 medium armor in pellinials you would get the bonus to weopon damage, plus weopon damage enchants on jewelry so basically push weopon damage (fighters guild abilities will help). Add 2 light and jewellery in Winterborn.

With your armour enchants and attributes push max magicka. Because of pellinials you will have high weopon +/= spell damage, good max magicka (so good ice damage), and with just a little split of cp's (and mage light) you could get 50% weopon/spell crit. The 2 stamina heal over times will benefit greatly from this crit.

Magicka sustain will be the most difficult thing, so potentially a breton/altmer race. Alternatively consider skills that give magicka return, like siphoning strikes if you were a nightblade? I don't know how effective the weakness to magicka destruction spell is, but if you are doing a lot of elemental damage the magicka return may be worthwhile.

Sorry for ranting, I really like your concept. Good luck with it.

notimetocare

Viable for solo, probably. But it will be weak. Hybrids are not good dmg. PvP you will be destroyed due to weak defense. Pve it will drag down a group, but likely done for most easy get dungeons and maybe normal msa.

susmitds

Well, I personally know that everything in the game can be done by a hybrid and that too quite comfortably. It may not be competitive but it is much more fun (I have a V16 hybrid templar as well). And IMO, having fun is the reason of playing a game.

notimetocare

susmitds wrote: »

Well, I personally know that everything in the game can be done by a hybrid and that too quite comfortably. It may not be competitive but it is much more fun (I have a V16 hybrid templar as well). And IMO, having fun is the reason of playing a game.

Define everything and comfortably. Hybrids can do anything, but how much of the group play is a carry? Actual hybrids like this build, not just people that use both resources.

ParaNostram

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Really cool concept! I really like that you can see the build you want to have instead of wanting a min/max build.

I think hybrids may be more viable if we know what the resource pools are for. With Winterborn set your main damage will be magicka, so maybe stamina could be more utility (shuffle, Vigor, rally) and defense.

If you went 5 medium armor in pellinials you would get the bonus to weopon damage, plus weopon damage enchants on jewelry so basically push weopon damage (fighters guild abilities will help). Add 2 light and jewellery in Winterborn.

With your armour enchants and attributes push max magicka. Because of pellinials you will have high weopon +/= spell damage, good max magicka (so good ice damage), and with just a little split of cp's (and mage light) you could get 50% weopon/spell crit. The 2 stamina heal over times will benefit greatly from this crit.

Magicka sustain will be the most difficult thing, so potentially a breton/altmer race. Alternatively consider skills that give magicka return, like siphoning strikes if you were a nightblade? I don't know how effective the weakness to magicka destruction spell is, but if you are doing a lot of elemental damage the magicka return may be worthwhile.

Sorry for ranting, I really like your concept. Good luck with it.

See that is all very valid information, however, that isn't (in my eyes) truly a hybrid build. That's emphasizing magicka over stamina. It would likely be more effective, no doubt, however it isn't what I'm wanting to build here. I want to be out there in the field, use my staff for my spells, swap over to my two hander for some gap closing and burst damage, swap back to the staff for some more spells applying those cold dots, and have my damage and resource use be relatively the same.

Granted, that's probably not a valid complaint from me honestly, the build I'm already working with for this (testing on a theoretical level right now) is already leaning towards magicka. I won't know what this looks like until I actually get to have this build in the game space. I'm excited about this and if the performance of my current idea does not work, I'll look into using one pool more for utility and the other more as my actual main pool.

For me, the trouble is finding a balance between being effective enough to actually stand a chance (albeit likely with a handicap that would have to be overcome through pure skill but a chance none the less) and matching the game feel of what I want to see done with this.

Thank you very much for your input. Getting to hear people's thoughts on this and tweaking the build is really exciting to me!