So when will we have competitive ranged stamina based builds?

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This game doesn't really support archer foucused builds or ranged stam builds.

In GW2 they have the ranger class, and Wow has the hunter, and just about all other MMOs have some form of ranged stamina dps class or composition whether they use a bow or not, but in eso its melee>ranged on all forms.

NB= Melee(magic/stam) assassin
DK= Melee(magic/stam) warroir
Templar= Melee(magic/stam) Holy knight
Sorcerer= Ranged(magic exclusive) Caster mage

All the classes are melee based except the sorc which is a caster. Since the bow is going to be a utility skill line instead of a dmg one can we have a:
-Crossbow skill line?
-sling shot skill line?
Throwing axe skill line?

I don't know something so that stam builds can play ranged builds effectively like caster sorcs/NBs

Or maybe a new class:

Hunter =Ranged(stamina) archer?

Thoughts?

Zyle

I wouldn't want a class restricted to only range tbh, I like how it is setup now they just need to tweak bow to become more viable than just a one shot tool/snare spam for PvP. PvE wise I'm out of the loop as I haven't used a bow to PvE in a long time but I know they are still useful.

Understand that weapon skill lines are meant to compliment the class not define it.

Van_0S

Poison bow will be good for a StamDK due to DK passives and CP.

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Zyle wrote: »

I wouldn't want a class restricted to only range tbh, I like how it is setup now they just need to tweak bow to become more viable than just a one shot tool/snare spam for PvP. PvE wise I'm out of the loop as I haven't used a bow to PvE in a long time but I know they are still useful.

Understand that weapon skill lines are meant to compliment the class not define it.

Yeah, I figured that a new class would be silly. I honestly think snipe needs a redesign and if they refuse to do that at least add crossbows

I don't like playing in melee range I think its boring and too easy but right now bow just sucks for solo play.

SanTii.92

Not in a foreseeable future probably; this discrepancy is vital for the magicka domination we see nowadays for competitive dps, because range will always mean a safer approach, and generally a more versatile way to dps. In a healthier environment, this should be balanced with a higher melee potential which doesn't happen except for dks.

But hey, at least we got somewhat decent itemization now with Marksman (should work on pve too) + Hawk's Eye.

Skinless_Jerk

Zyle wrote: »

I wouldn't want a class restricted to only range tbh, I like how it is setup now they just need to tweak bow to become more viable than just a one shot tool/snare spam for PvP. PvE wise I'm out of the loop as I haven't used a bow to PvE in a long time but I know they are still useful.

Understand that weapon skill lines are meant to compliment the class not define it.

they could rename the powerset a .. NightBow instead of NightBlade?

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Van_0S wrote: »

Poison bow will be good for a StamDK due to DK passives and CP.

Yes it will be great as a support/utility weapon to add to their melee dps.

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sAnn92 wrote: »

Not in a foreseeable future probably; this discrepancy is vital for the magicka domination we see nowadays for competitive dps, because range will always mean a safer approach, and generally a more versatile way to dps. In a healthier environment, this should be balanced with a higher melee potential which doesn't happen except for dks.

But hey, at least we got somewhat decent itemization now with Marksman (should work on pve too) + Hawk's Eye.

I never could understand the logic behind ranged builds lacking in dps because of ranged.

In this game you can spam gap closers from now to the end of the world with no limitations, its ranged builds that have to put in a LOT of effort to kite them and are punished for it by dealing less dmg.

This would make sense in other games where gap closers have cool downs and you have to strategically enter melee range against range builds.

But yeah I glad hawk eye and Morag Tong are back!

Volkodav

I use a bow with my Stamina NB and have absolutely no problems with the build. Unless you are speaking about PvP.
The Hunter/Archer would be a good one to play.
I only wish there were crossbows to have a crossbow skill line for!

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Volkodav wrote: »

I use a bow with my Stamina NB and have absolutely no problems with the build. Unless you are speaking about PvP.
The Hunter/Archer would be a good one to play.
I only wish there were crossbows to have a crossbow skill line for!

Yeah, Bow isn't bad its just not there yet(or ever) to being a main hand weapon.

I use bow in PVE just fine since its easy but in vMSA I have to use melee and it sucks

In PVP im pretty much forced to Gank people.

SanTii.92

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Not in a foreseeable future probably; this discrepancy is vital for the magicka domination we see nowadays for competitive dps, because range will always mean a safer approach, and generally a more versatile way to dps. In a healthier environment, this should be balanced with a higher melee potential which doesn't happen except for dks.

But hey, at least we got somewhat decent itemization now with Marksman (should work on pve too) + Hawk's Eye.

I never could understand the logic behind ranged builds lacking in dps because of ranged.

In this game you can spam gap closers from now to the end of the world with no limitations, its ranged builds that have to put in a LOT of effort to kite them and are punished for it by dealing less dmg.

This would make sense in other games where gap closers have cool downs and you have to strategically enter melee range against range builds.

But yeah I glad hawk eye and Morag Tong are back!

I was referring to pve tho. Logic is pretty simple, higher risk higher reward. Most mechanics are fairly harder to avoid at melee range, we also need to deal with mobility at a higher extent compared to range classes. take a look at Lord Warden, Kena or the Elite Guard fights.

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sAnn92 wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Not in a foreseeable future probably; this discrepancy is vital for the magicka domination we see nowadays for competitive dps, because range will always mean a safer approach, and generally a more versatile way to dps. In a healthier environment, this should be balanced with a higher melee potential which doesn't happen except for dks.

But hey, at least we got somewhat decent itemization now with Marksman (should work on pve too) + Hawk's Eye.

I never could understand the logic behind ranged builds lacking in dps because of ranged.

In this game you can spam gap closers from now to the end of the world with no limitations, its ranged builds that have to put in a LOT of effort to kite them and are punished for it by dealing less dmg.

This would make sense in other games where gap closers have cool downs and you have to strategically enter melee range against range builds.

But yeah I glad hawk eye and Morag Tong are back!

I was referring to pve tho. Logic is pretty simple, higher risk higher reward.

You're right on that one.

Volkodav

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

I use a bow with my Stamina NB and have absolutely no problems with the build. Unless you are speaking about PvP.
The Hunter/Archer would be a good one to play.
I only wish there were crossbows to have a crossbow skill line for!

Yeah, Bow isn't bad its just not there yet(or ever) to being a main hand weapon.

I use bow in PVE just fine since its easy but in vMSA I have to use melee and it sucks

In PVP im pretty much forced to Gank people.

I can understand the problems with a bow in those two things.PvP and vMSA.
However,I can think of using any other main weapon.I get such great DPS out of it when I need it that it confounds me how people always say that it isnt a good weapon to use.

DaveMoeDee

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Not in a foreseeable future probably; this discrepancy is vital for the magicka domination we see nowadays for competitive dps, because range will always mean a safer approach, and generally a more versatile way to dps. In a healthier environment, this should be balanced with a higher melee potential which doesn't happen except for dks.

But hey, at least we got somewhat decent itemization now with Marksman (should work on pve too) + Hawk's Eye.

I never could understand the logic behind ranged builds lacking in dps because of ranged.

In this game you can spam gap closers from now to the end of the world with no limitations, its ranged builds that have to put in a LOT of effort to kite them and are punished for it by dealing less dmg.

This would make sense in other games where gap closers have cool downs and you have to strategically enter melee range against range builds.

But yeah I glad hawk eye and Morag Tong are back!

I would be happy to spam bow skills from the backline in PvP while other people melee. No need to kite when other players will engage.

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DaveMoeDee wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

sAnn92 wrote: »

Not in a foreseeable future probably; this discrepancy is vital for the magicka domination we see nowadays for competitive dps, because range will always mean a safer approach, and generally a more versatile way to dps. In a healthier environment, this should be balanced with a higher melee potential which doesn't happen except for dks.

But hey, at least we got somewhat decent itemization now with Marksman (should work on pve too) + Hawk's Eye.

I never could understand the logic behind ranged builds lacking in dps because of ranged.

In this game you can spam gap closers from now to the end of the world with no limitations, its ranged builds that have to put in a LOT of effort to kite them and are punished for it by dealing less dmg.

This would make sense in other games where gap closers have cool downs and you have to strategically enter melee range against range builds.

But yeah I glad hawk eye and Morag Tong are back!

I would be happy to spam bow skills from the backline in PvP while other people melee. No need to kite when other players will engage.

And this is where bow shines. Yes you can snipe behind a group but most people will dodge the snipes or LOS you until they can track you down and kill you.

And if the other group has a templar.... well nobody will die from snipe.

Ser Lobo

I understand some of the reasoning. It takes more effort to get in close and keep on the target with melee, so they've justified this by making melee do more damage. Considering that melee fighters have to deal with dodging and getting in and out, too, and I would understand this justification. These melee fighters would need more armor, more health, and would be unable to apply the damage straight up due to having to dodge and move a lot to survive.

That reasoning, in my opinion, doesn't actually seem to work. First you have mages, doing far more damage than archers from the same ranges, while still having as good or better protection.

I think it's dangerous indeed having archers and mages doing as much damage as melee characters. But right now the balance is siginficantly skewed against bows and archers.

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Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

I use a bow with my Stamina NB and have absolutely no problems with the build. Unless you are speaking about PvP.
The Hunter/Archer would be a good one to play.
I only wish there were crossbows to have a crossbow skill line for!

Yeah, Bow isn't bad its just not there yet(or ever) to being a main hand weapon.

I use bow in PVE just fine since its easy but in vMSA I have to use melee and it sucks

In PVP im pretty much forced to Gank people.

I can understand the problems with a bow in those two things.PvP and vMSA.
However,I can think of using any other main weapon.I get such great DPS out of it when I need it that it confounds me how people always say that it isnt a good weapon to use.

Yeah, and actully run Bow and DW, DW us my back up against un-kiteable mobs and flappy wing DKs but as it stands right now snipe just doesn't cut it for a reliable dps spam skill.

Volkodav

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

I use a bow with my Stamina NB and have absolutely no problems with the build. Unless you are speaking about PvP.
The Hunter/Archer would be a good one to play.
I only wish there were crossbows to have a crossbow skill line for!

Yeah, Bow isn't bad its just not there yet(or ever) to being a main hand weapon.

I use bow in PVE just fine since its easy but in vMSA I have to use melee and it sucks

In PVP im pretty much forced to Gank people.

I can understand the problems with a bow in those two things.PvP and vMSA.
However,I can think of using any other main weapon.I get such great DPS out of it when I need it that it confounds me how people always say that it isnt a good weapon to use.

Yeah, and actully run Bow and DW, DW us my back up against un-kiteable mobs and flappy wing DKs but as it stands right now snipe just doesn't cut it for a reliable dps spam skill.

Well,I use bow and DW all the time,snipe is my favorite skill,and Poison Arrow.Those two and the Nightblade's TP Strike get me through every time.

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ruze84b14_ESO wrote: »

I understand some of the reasoning. It takes more effort to get in close and keep on the target with melee, so they've justified this by making melee do more damage. Considering that melee fighters have to deal with dodging and getting in and out, too, and I would understand this justification. These melee fighters would need more armor, more health, and would be unable to apply the damage straight up due to having to dodge and move a lot to survive.

That reasoning, in my opinion, doesn't actually seem to work. First you have mages, doing far more damage than archers from the same ranges, while still having as good or better protection.

I think it's dangerous indeed having archers and mages doing as much damage as melee characters. But right now the balance is siginficantly skewed against bows and archers.

I completely agree that range should have it's dmg lower but only by a little, currently its a huge margin ( about 400-500 WD lower)

I played runescape in the past and the combat triangle went like this:

Archer>Mage>Warrior
Warrior>Archer>Mage
Mage>Warrior>Archer

Archers could kite warriors but had significant dmg output against them because arrows have difficulty penetrating armor, if a warrior got in close range its was RIP for archers. But warriors didn't have a gap closer up all the time so they had to use it a the right time.

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Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

I use a bow with my Stamina NB and have absolutely no problems with the build. Unless you are speaking about PvP.
The Hunter/Archer would be a good one to play.
I only wish there were crossbows to have a crossbow skill line for!

Yeah, Bow isn't bad its just not there yet(or ever) to being a main hand weapon.

I use bow in PVE just fine since its easy but in vMSA I have to use melee and it sucks

In PVP im pretty much forced to Gank people.

I can understand the problems with a bow in those two things.PvP and vMSA.
However,I can think of using any other main weapon.I get such great DPS out of it when I need it that it confounds me how people always say that it isnt a good weapon to use.

Yeah, and actully run Bow and DW, DW us my back up against un-kiteable mobs and flappy wing DKs but as it stands right now snipe just doesn't cut it for a reliable dps spam skill.

Well,I use bow and DW all the time,snipe is my favorite skill,and Poison Arrow.Those two and the Nightblade's TP Strike get me through every time.

Snipe is to slow for a dps skill its best used in stealth.

Volkodav

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

I use a bow with my Stamina NB and have absolutely no problems with the build. Unless you are speaking about PvP.
The Hunter/Archer would be a good one to play.
I only wish there were crossbows to have a crossbow skill line for!

Yeah, Bow isn't bad its just not there yet(or ever) to being a main hand weapon.

I use bow in PVE just fine since its easy but in vMSA I have to use melee and it sucks

In PVP im pretty much forced to Gank people.

I can understand the problems with a bow in those two things.PvP and vMSA.
However,I can think of using any other main weapon.I get such great DPS out of it when I need it that it confounds me how people always say that it isnt a good weapon to use.

Yeah, and actully run Bow and DW, DW us my back up against un-kiteable mobs and flappy wing DKs but as it stands right now snipe just doesn't cut it for a reliable dps spam skill.

Well,I use bow and DW all the time,snipe is my favorite skill,and Poison Arrow.Those two and the Nightblade's TP Strike get me through every time.

Snipe is to slow for a dps skill its best used in stealth.

Hmmm.I havent tried that yet.I'll have to check it out.I just dont use stealth skills.
I love using Snipe in conjunction with Poison Arrow,and TP Strike.Works well for me.

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Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

I use a bow with my Stamina NB and have absolutely no problems with the build. Unless you are speaking about PvP.
The Hunter/Archer would be a good one to play.
I only wish there were crossbows to have a crossbow skill line for!

Yeah, Bow isn't bad its just not there yet(or ever) to being a main hand weapon.

I use bow in PVE just fine since its easy but in vMSA I have to use melee and it sucks

In PVP im pretty much forced to Gank people.

I can understand the problems with a bow in those two things.PvP and vMSA.
However,I can think of using any other main weapon.I get such great DPS out of it when I need it that it confounds me how people always say that it isnt a good weapon to use.

Yeah, and actully run Bow and DW, DW us my back up against un-kiteable mobs and flappy wing DKs but as it stands right now snipe just doesn't cut it for a reliable dps spam skill.

Well,I use bow and DW all the time,snipe is my favorite skill,and Poison Arrow.Those two and the Nightblade's TP Strike get me through every time.

Snipe is to slow for a dps skill its best used in stealth.

Hmmm.I havent tried that yet.I'll have to check it out.I just dont use stealth skills.
I love using Snipe in conjunction with Poison Arrow,and TP Strike.Works well for me.

Thats is a good combo, but stealth snipe hits very especially if you are a NB.

Volkodav

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Volkodav wrote: »

I use a bow with my Stamina NB and have absolutely no problems with the build. Unless you are speaking about PvP.
The Hunter/Archer would be a good one to play.
I only wish there were crossbows to have a crossbow skill line for!

Yeah, Bow isn't bad its just not there yet(or ever) to being a main hand weapon.

I use bow in PVE just fine since its easy but in vMSA I have to use melee and it sucks

In PVP im pretty much forced to Gank people.

I can understand the problems with a bow in those two things.PvP and vMSA.
However,I can think of using any other main weapon.I get such great DPS out of it when I need it that it confounds me how people always say that it isnt a good weapon to use.

Yeah, and actully run Bow and DW, DW us my back up against un-kiteable mobs and flappy wing DKs but as it stands right now snipe just doesn't cut it for a reliable dps spam skill.

Well,I use bow and DW all the time,snipe is my favorite skill,and Poison Arrow.Those two and the Nightblade's TP Strike get me through every time.

Snipe is to slow for a dps skill its best used in stealth.

Hmmm.I havent tried that yet.I'll have to check it out.I just dont use stealth skills.
I love using Snipe in conjunction with Poison Arrow,and TP Strike.Works well for me.

Thats is a good combo, but stealth snipe hits very especially if you are a NB.

Yeah,..I really will have to try that next time I go inworld. Probably in an hour or so.I'm cooking dinner. XD

ADarklore

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Snipe is to slow for a dps skill its best used in stealth.

Have you ever tried combining Snipe with medium/heavy Bow attacks? To me it always seems that Snipe fires faster when you clip a medium/heavy attack with it; I've killed bosses weaving basic attacks with Snipe.

Volkodav

ADarklore wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Snipe is to slow for a dps skill its best used in stealth.

Have you ever tried combining Snipe with medium/heavy Bow attacks? To me it always seems that Snipe fires faster when you clip a medium/heavy attack with it; I've killed bosses weaving basic attacks with Snipe.

Right.This.

SanTii.92

ADarklore wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Snipe is to slow for a dps skill its best used in stealth.

Have you ever tried combining Snipe with medium/heavy Bow attacks? To me it always seems that Snipe fires faster when you clip a medium/heavy attack with it; I've killed bosses weaving basic attacks with Snipe.

Still, you are leagues behind any magicka caster.

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@Volkodav @ADarklore well I play on console so AC is a little tough for me but I'll try it out.

Volkodav

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

@Volkodav @ADarklore well I play on console so AC is a little tough for me but I'll try it out.

Ahh.I didnt know.

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sAnn92 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Snipe is to slow for a dps skill its best used in stealth.

Have you ever tried combining Snipe with medium/heavy Bow attacks? To me it always seems that Snipe fires faster when you clip a medium/heavy attack with it; I've killed bosses weaving basic attacks with Snipe.

Still, you are leagues behind any magicka caster.

True. ^^^