Why Are Bugs & Poor Performance Tolerated?

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

As the title asks. Why is this tolerated in this game by the community? Seriously. Why? If Rockstar Games, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. has done half the stuff Zenimax has done, it'd be all over gaming website. We'd be seeing article after article on Giant Bomb and Kotaku of how such-n'-such gaming developers have completely made ______ game unplayable. But yet and still, this game seems to get very little to if any flack for it. Why? Oh sure. You'll see someone make a thread about an exploit transpiring, or you'll see a thread about the poor RNG (which ZOS is still doing), or you'll see a thread about how PVP is getting ignored (which it is and has been for months). But notice, there's no articles about what's going on. There's no reports made about it. Why?

If there were some headlines about it on a lot of these gaming news websites like IGN or Kotaku, I believe half of the stuff going on would cease immediately. Why? Because it would effect ZOS' pockets. I'd damage their revenue, because more and more people would find out just how bad things are going here. And people would shy away from the game, thus FORCING a lot of crap to get fixed. But because we have streamers being paid off peanuts and crowns, and anyone who has major complaints about the game being shunned and swept under the rug -- we have this nonsense occurring.

So why, everyone? Why are we allowing this crap to happen to this game? Is it because we truly don't care, and we're just waiting on the next Elder Scrolls installment to no longer play this game? Or, is it because you're fine with the bugs and don't see them as an issue and overall virus to the game itself?

wayfarerx · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So why, everyone? Why are we allowing this crap to happen to this game?

Because:

We don't work at Zenimax Online Studios, so there's very little we could do except stop playing, but...
We don't find the problems severe enough to stop playing.

Seriously, MMOs are big complex machines with lots of moving parts. There will be bugs, some will get squashed and some new ones will appear. I'm just as frustrated as most about many of the problems, but not so much that I want to vote with my wallet and leave the game forever.

If you don't approve of what ZOS is doing then your only real options are to leave or complain on the forums, but no one is "allowing" anything to happen... we're just playing video games.

Korah_Eaglecry · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

As the title asks. Why is this tolerated in this game by the community? Seriously. Why? If Rockstar Games, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. has done half the stuff Zenimax has done, it'd be all over gaming website. We'd be seeing article after article on Giant Bomb and Kotaku of how such-n'-such gaming developers have completely made ______ game unplayable. But yet and still, this game seems to get very little to if any flack for it. Why? Oh sure. You'll see someone make a thread about an exploit transpiring, or you'll see a thread about the poor RNG (which ZOS is still doing), or you'll see a thread about how PVP is getting ignored (which it is and has been for months). But notice, there's no articles about what's going on. There's no reports made about it. Why?

If there were some headlines about it on a lot of these gaming news websites like IGN or Kotaku, I believe half of the stuff going on would cease immediately. Why? Because it would effect ZOS' pockets. I'd damage their revenue, because more and more people would find out just how bad things are going here. And people would shy away from the game, thus FORCING a lot of crap to get fixed. But because we have streamers being paid off peanuts and crowns, and anyone who has major complaints about the game being shunned and swept under the rug -- we have this nonsense occurring.

So why, everyone? Why are we allowing this crap to happen to this game? Is it because we truly don't care, and we're just waiting on the next Elder Scrolls installment to no longer play this game? Or, is it because you're fine with the bugs and don't see them as an issue and overall virus to the game itself?

Because the games so massive that its easy to over look or even not notice the bugs. Over the summer and spring of the first year on PC the Developers actually got the game to a pretty stable state after the launch fiasco.

Unfortunately, and this is just my opinion. This current "only update/patch during DLC release" approach is going to come back to bite them in the ***. You cant tackle the issues properly if youre only able to tackle them once every 3 months. Theres no way to tell if the fix will actually be a confirmed fix til its live. Versus patching weekly or bi-weekly where if something doesnt work, its put back on the known issues list and they take another pass at it. This means that bugs, that might otherwise get a fix quite soon after its introduction last far longer then they would have. That over time more and more impactful bugs are introduced that push older bugs farther down the list. Eventually this list starts to really pile up as theres no way one or two patches will be able to keep a handle on the issues each DLC adds and compounds.

We might not see the true extent of this for a while. It might really come down on us like a pile of bricks a year or two from now. But when it does, itll be really ugly for ZOS. And knowing how they approach things, theyll shrug it off with no lessons learned and continue on business as usual. Because as long as they can distract us with the next DLC and the next shiny mount/motif. Theyll continue to get away with the least amount of effort approach.

WillhelmBlack · May 2016

Because we're still holding on to what the original team made, a fkn awesome mmo based on the ES series and a combat system which challenged you but with skill could master. Unfortunately though, patch after patch it's losing it's charm. That girl you met with the cute face, did all the things under the sun with you and made you laugh, cry and feel excited, you still love that girl now but the farts no longer entertain and just put you off, she leaves her dirty laundry on the floor, makes the same meals over and over, nods her head but really, honestly doesn't give a hoot about what you're saying. That's our 2 year relationship with ZOS.

edited for masked profanity

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

As the title asks. Why is this tolerated in this game by the community? Seriously. Why? If Rockstar Games, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. has done half the stuff Zenimax has done, it'd be all over gaming website. We'd be seeing article after article on Giant Bomb and Kotaku of how such-n'-such gaming developers have completely made ______ game unplayable. But yet and still, this game seems to get very little to if any flack for it. Why? Oh sure. You'll see someone make a thread about an exploit transpiring, or you'll see a thread about the poor RNG (which ZOS is still doing), or you'll see a thread about how PVP is getting ignored (which it is and has been for months). But notice, there's no articles about what's going on. There's no reports made about it. Why?

If there were some headlines about it on a lot of these gaming news websites like IGN or Kotaku, I believe half of the stuff going on would cease immediately. Why? Because it would effect ZOS' pockets. I'd damage their revenue, because more and more people would find out just how bad things are going here. And people would shy away from the game, thus FORCING a lot of crap to get fixed. But because we have streamers being paid off peanuts and crowns, and anyone who has major complaints about the game being shunned and swept under the rug -- we have this nonsense occurring.

So why, everyone? Why are we allowing this crap to happen to this game? Is it because we truly don't care, and we're just waiting on the next Elder Scrolls installment to no longer play this game? Or, is it because you're fine with the bugs and don't see them as an issue and overall virus to the game itself?

Because the games so massive that its easy to over look or even not notice the bugs. Over the summer and spring of the first year on PC the Developers actually got the game to a pretty stable state after the launch fiasco.

Unfortunately, and this is just my opinion. This current "only update/patch during DLC release" approach is going to come back to bite them in the ***. You cant tackle the issues properly if youre only able to tackle them once every 3 months. Theres no way to tell if the fix will actually be a confirmed fix til its live. Versus patching weekly or bi-weekly where if something doesnt work, its put back on the known issues list and they take another pass at it. This means that bugs, that might otherwise get a fix quite soon after its introduction last far longer then they would have. That over time more and more impactful bugs are introduced that push older bugs farther down the list. Eventually this list starts to really pile up as theres no way one or two patches will be able to keep a handle on the issues each DLC adds and compounds.

We might not see the true extent of this for a while. It might really come down on us like a pile of bricks a year or two from now. But when it does, itll be really ugly for ZOS. And knowing how they approach things, theyll shrug it off with no lessons learned and continue on business as usual. Because as long as they can distract us with the next DLC and the next shiny mount/motif. Theyll continue to get away with the least amount of effort approach.

I agree and think that it'll be a lot sooner than we all realize. Things are getting very ugly right now, and is only getting worse. If ZOS pulls another stunt like what they did with the Thieves Guild DLC (where they ignored the bugs we pointed out to them in the PTS and released an entirely different thing than what was on the PTS), then I think it'll only be months away.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Because we're still holding on to what the original team made, a fkn awesome mmo based on the ES series and a combat system which challenged you but with skill could master. Unfortunately though, patch after patch it's losing it's charm. That girl you met with the cute face, did all the things under the sun with you and made you laugh, cry and feel excited, you still love that girl now but the farts no longer entertain and just put you off, she leaves her dirty laundry on the floor, makes the same meals over and over, nods her head but really, honestly doesn't give a sh!t about what you're saying. That's our 2 year relationship with ZOS.

Yep. Agreed. It's starting to get stale and pretty quick.

Jaronking · May 2016

Hey report to those sites what going on and maybe they will report on it.Then maybe something will get fix .

Gidorick · May 2016

Many of many disconnected reasons.

*Because ESO isn't popular enough to warrant attention from gaming websites.
*Because gaming websites aren't news outlets. They are advertising machines masquerading as news outlets.
*Because ESO is an MMO which inherently l gives ZOS a pass on the existence of bugs and lag.
*Because the bugs aren't actually as severe as you would believe from reading the forums.
*Because the bugs that DO exist aren't severe enough to cause players to leave.

Etc... etc...

If the bugs and lag were hurting ZOS' bottom line, they'd be fixed much faster.

Smileybones · May 2016

Err did you miss the weekly patches ? I agree they don' happen every week, but saying that they happen every 3 months is way under the truth.

About performance, can't say about consoles since I don't own one but on PC NA in 6 months of playing I never experienced any performance issue, so maybe stop running ESO on a potato.

Cyrodiil you mean maybe ? Well there are several less populated and LAG FREE campaings that you are free to join.

Bugs ? As previously stated, every piece of software of this complexity has bugs. Many of them are fixed actually if you care reading the patch notes.

In my country we call this kind of thread a storm inside a glass of water.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO · May 2016

Let me tell you how these things come to life:
Normally, in an INTELLIGENT corporation, you find a bug, you go hunt it down and kill it.
Or, you call Ghostbusters, but they are not that thorough.
Only when you got the last bug, or at least you're convinced you got the last bug, and NOT ANY SOONER, you will begin to focus on things like DLC and the like.
You let this be thoroughly tested, with the idea that there WILL be bugs, which then need to be hunt down and killed, either by the company or said Ghostbusters, before throwing it into the public.

What happens in reality is Corporation Jedi'ism.
You know what I mean: "Let's cover our eyes, and hope it goes away. But let's bring out that DLC before the *** hits the fan."

Said fan has been hit with thingies like lag, DC's, you know what I mean, most of you been there, right?
It's why I myself, I am a Sith, I take the bull by the horns, rip it's ugly head of, and shred it into Kebab.
Said bull will not ever harass me again...

Enraged_Tiki_Torch · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

As the title asks. Why is this tolerated in this game by the community? Seriously. Why? If Rockstar Games, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. has done half the stuff Zenimax has done, it'd be all over gaming website. We'd be seeing article after article on Giant Bomb and Kotaku of how such-n'-such gaming developers have completely made ______ game unplayable. But yet and still, this game seems to get very little to if any flack for it. Why? Oh sure. You'll see someone make a thread about an exploit transpiring, or you'll see a thread about the poor RNG (which ZOS is still doing), or you'll see a thread about how PVP is getting ignored (which it is and has been for months). But notice, there's no articles about what's going on. There's no reports made about it. Why?

If there were some headlines about it on a lot of these gaming news websites like IGN or Kotaku, I believe half of the stuff going on would cease immediately. Why? Because it would effect ZOS' pockets. I'd damage their revenue, because more and more people would find out just how bad things are going here. And people would shy away from the game, thus FORCING a lot of crap to get fixed.

ESO isn't getting any headlines on Gaming Websites aside from DLC updates because the game is old. As far as the issues with the game being addressed on these websites. It doesn't need to be, this game has a bad reputation in the gaming community already.

IMO Zenimax should be more concerned with keeping the gamers they have than trying to acquire new players. If they can improve the game's standing with it's current players than they wouldn't have the issue with current gamers publicly giving the game a bad rap.

ADarklore · May 2016

Love how the armchair developers believe it's so simple to track down bugs in thousands of miles of code, and then understand how changing that code could ultimately cause hundreds of other bugs. Sometimes you just have to live with some bugs in order to not cause more chaos by trying to 'fix' it. It's not like a loose eyelash that you can just pluck out. This is exactly the reason they stated they like to do major updates every few months, to avoid the risk of constantly incorporating new bugs into the system... everything they add has to be pieced into the existing system... and understandably sometimes the new code doesn't like the old. Also keep in mind that it took them an extra year of development just to figure out how to get the console versions to work.

FatKidHatchets · May 2016

My complaint isn't the trouble of cleaning old bygs. It happens, its every DLC that brings new ones.

Do these folks even get in trouble?

negbert · May 2016

What bugs? I play the game for hours every day without any issues (unlike Fallout 4 which crashes all the time). Is this actually a pvp thread?

Tryxus · May 2016

It's an Elder Scrolls game, ofc it has bugs in it

rootimus · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

As the title asks. Why is this tolerated in this game by the community? Seriously. Why? If Rockstar Games, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. has done half the stuff Zenimax has done, it'd be all over gaming website.

Unfortunately, all the developers you mention do the same thing. The market is primarily filled with bad games made by people who have no real interest in them, "managed" by people who only see dollar signs. It's why I'm not pre-ordering Civ 6, but instead waiting for it to go on sale at xmas.

The only real solution is for you to come up with a great idea, find a way to fund it and make a game yourself, at least until the unwashed masses start demanding a higher standard than they currently accept. I sincerely apologise to the word "standard" for the implication that the aforementioned people have any.

Necrelios · May 2016

These things are certainly not tolerated. For me they stack silently like straws until they inevitably break the camels back. Every game has a lifespan. ESO is just going through a mid-life crisis.

clocksstoppe · May 2016

I have no performance issues.

Tandor · May 2016

I've been playing since the PC launch and apart from one broken quest that was immediately fixed by abandoning and retaking it I haven't encountered any significant bugs or performance issues. I'm sure the fact that I don't PvP or do group dungeons etc has something to do with it, not to mention the fact that I'm playing it on a desktop PC (I have it installed on a couple actually, with very different specs but equally solid performance), but for me the game has run pretty flawlessly since launch.

Ourorboros · May 2016

wayfarerx wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

So why, everyone? Why are we allowing this crap to happen to this game?

Because:
We don't work at Zenimax Online Studios, so there's very little we could do except stop playing, but...

We don't find the problems severe enough to stop playing.

Seriously, MMOs are big complex machines with lots of moving parts. There will be bugs, some will get squashed and some new ones will appear. I'm just as frustrated as most about many of the problems, but not so much that I want to vote with my wallet and leave the game forever.

If you don't approve of what ZOS is doing then your only real options are to leave or complain on the forums, but no one is "allowing" anything to happen... we're just playing video games.

No other responses needed. This says everything that needs to be said.

Sotha_Sil · May 2016

Are you new to the forums ? I think you are... because for the past two years there have been countless posts about the game performance issues... it's just that people who really cared are either tired to say it or left. We are flooded with useless threads nowadays.

And no gaming website actually cares about ESO anymore, it had poor reviews when it first came out and MMOs are not revaluated after they launch.

Volkodav · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

As the title asks. Why is this tolerated in this game by the community? Seriously. Why? If Rockstar Games, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. has done half the stuff Zenimax has done, it'd be all over gaming website. We'd be seeing article after article on Giant Bomb and Kotaku of how such-n'-such gaming developers have completely made ______ game unplayable. But yet and still, this game seems to get very little to if any flack for it. Why? Oh sure. You'll see someone make a thread about an exploit transpiring, or you'll see a thread about the poor RNG (which ZOS is still doing), or you'll see a thread about how PVP is getting ignored (which it is and has been for months). But notice, there's no articles about what's going on. There's no reports made about it. Why?

If there were some headlines about it on a lot of these gaming news websites like IGN or Kotaku, I believe half of the stuff going on would cease immediately. Why? Because it would effect ZOS' pockets. I'd damage their revenue, because more and more people would find out just how bad things are going here. And people would shy away from the game, thus FORCING a lot of crap to get fixed. But because we have streamers being paid off peanuts and crowns, and anyone who has major complaints about the game being shunned and swept under the rug -- we have this nonsense occurring.

So why, everyone? Why are we allowing this crap to happen to this game? Is it because we truly don't care, and we're just waiting on the next Elder Scrolls installment to no longer play this game? Or, is it because you're fine with the bugs and don't see them as an issue and overall virus to the game itself?

Because we arent the Devs,or ZOS.THEY are the ones who says what goes and what stays.

SkoomaAddict420 · May 2016

Addiction... We know the game has bugs in it. I just clobber them with a greatsword...

DaveMoeDee · May 2016

I play the game because it is fun. If I didn't enjoy the game, I wouldn't play it.

The number of bugs is itself irrelevant. All that matters is whether I like the game, even when experiencing bugs.

The truth is, I don't notice many bugs. There are times when I lose my ability to attach or use skills until I /reloadui. In Cyrodiil, sometimes siege doesn't work for me when I first put it down but works when I return to it. Sometimes it won't work for me at all and I can't even pick it up. Sometimes I get infinite loadscreens in Cyrodiil. Lag isn't a bug, but the poor performance takes away some from the game. I actually don't care that much about lag.

I still get weird sounds at time since TG launched. Don't care about that.

None of the bugs I have mentioned feel like a big deal to me apart from the infinite loadscreens. Sure, I die sometimes in PvE during a /reloadui, but I also had FO4 crash repeatedly in the same underground building 2 nights ago.

Considering how many applications I have deployed in the office that I know have bugs (yet fixing them is less important than other things I need to do), I am pretty accepting of bugs existing in principle.

NativeJoe · May 2016

Tandor wrote: »

I've been playing since the PC launch and apart from one broken quest that was immediately fixed by abandoning and retaking it I haven't encountered any significant bugs or performance issues. I'm sure the fact that I don't PvP or do group dungeons etc has something to do with it, not to mention the fact that I'm playing it on a desktop PC (I have it installed on a couple actually, with very different specs but equally solid performance), but for me the game has run pretty flawlessly since launch.

Hold up. Elephant in the room. if your Not doing dungeons, pvp, or any end game ...and you've been playing since launch...

What do you do? what are you doing?

Volkodav · May 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've been playing since the PC launch and apart from one broken quest that was immediately fixed by abandoning and retaking it I haven't encountered any significant bugs or performance issues. I'm sure the fact that I don't PvP or do group dungeons etc has something to do with it, not to mention the fact that I'm playing it on a desktop PC (I have it installed on a couple actually, with very different specs but equally solid performance), but for me the game has run pretty flawlessly since launch.

Hold up. Elephant in the room. if your Not doing dungeons, pvp, or any end game ...and you've been playing since launch...

What do you do? what are you doing?

Quests.
I also havent had many bugs.None that were very bad anyway. Except for the required updating of my video card.
Questing and working on achievements are what I do most. The only endgame I do is the main quest,Cadwell's Silver,etc.I too have been playing since launch,well,before that really. Betas. I still never PvP.

** I must update this comment.
I am now having very bad problems with crashing and locking up.I mean really bad.Like every 15-30 minutes.

FelixTheCatt · May 2016

I haven't played this game in almost 7 months but when I left game play was relatively stable with the exception of PvP. Is it really that bad now?

Tandor · May 2016

NativeJoe wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've been playing since the PC launch and apart from one broken quest that was immediately fixed by abandoning and retaking it I haven't encountered any significant bugs or performance issues. I'm sure the fact that I don't PvP or do group dungeons etc has something to do with it, not to mention the fact that I'm playing it on a desktop PC (I have it installed on a couple actually, with very different specs but equally solid performance), but for me the game has run pretty flawlessly since launch.

Hold up. Elephant in the room. if your Not doing dungeons, pvp, or any end game ...and you've been playing since launch...

What do you do? what are you doing?

I play multiple characters across two accounts, at my own pace although I do co-operative play for things like world bosses and dolmens etc, and I play other games as well as doing other things in my life. My highest character is VR2.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

FelixTheCatt wrote: »

I haven't played this game in almost 7 months but when I left game play was relatively stable with the exception of PvP. Is it really that bad now?

Oh it's pretty horrible. Lol. Just take a few moments to browse through the thread here.

Smileybones · May 2016

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

FelixTheCatt wrote: »

I haven't played this game in almost 7 months but when I left game play was relatively stable with the exception of PvP. Is it really that bad now?

Oh it's pretty horrible. Lol. Just take a few moments to browse through the thread here.

Care to enlighten us with what performance issues and bugs that you are experiencing ?

If YOU take a moment to browse through the thread, you see that many people AREN'T experiencing what you claim to be 'horrible'.

Ch4mpTW · May 2016

Smileybones wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

FelixTheCatt wrote: »

I haven't played this game in almost 7 months but when I left game play was relatively stable with the exception of PvP. Is it really that bad now?

Oh it's pretty horrible. Lol. Just take a few moments to browse through the thread here.

Care to enlighten us with what performance issues and bugs that you are experiencing ?

If YOU take a moment to browse through the thread, you see that many people AREN'T experiencing what you claim to be 'horrible'.

Here.

Julianos · May 2016

Im not tolarating i stopped paying any money after TG DLC but till TG i always subbed or bought crowns to help developers and ZOS. But Cyrodiil never fixed vice versa lag and ping increased bit more with every big patch/DLC. Its not because i hate ZOS but it feel s**pid paying money to something broken for me. I still play cyrodiil because im in a big PVP guild with TS its fun. But the game experience is 1/10.