Maintenance for the week of May 25:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 25
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 27, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 25
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 27, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 4:00PM EDT (20:00 UTC)
In my opinion, every class is broken!
The_Smilemeister
✭✭✭✭✭
Just a quick warning, this post is long, like very long, I wouldn't be surprised if I set a new record. Just a heads up I tried to add humour to make light of the topic at hand and for my own personal pleasure. You've been warned.
Every now and then, I read up about someone or some people having a go at a certain class for this and that reasons (usually because they're over-powered in PvP), others complain that the class they love has been cast to the shadows because of countless de-buffs, many more complain that every class needs an equivalent ability or that they're missing what others have. To sum it all up, I'm sick to death of it all! Seriously, if my bin wasn't full of tissues because of my recent cold, I'd be throwing up in it for every post I've came across which discusses classes being too OP or too weak (I should also earn £1 per post too, but oh well. Life's too cruel). Do you want my opinion on it all? You do? Okay then. Every single class, Dragonknights, Sorcerers, Templars and Nightblades, they're all BROKEN!
How did I come to such a conclusion you may be asking? Well, with my knowledge of each class (I've had a go at them all so don't panic) and what's left of my sanity before Sheogorath drags me into the Shivering Isles, I'll explain my view on each class, what I think about the class system and why it's currently in a worse state than Kvatch was left in in Oblivion. Go ahead, approve or disapprove. Love or hate. I'm not out to make friends and unfortunately most of us live in a 'democracy' so everyone is entitled to their opinion, regardless of whether it has any real meaning or if it's complete b*ll*cks.
To start us off on our magnificent journey of harsh opinions and the occasional use of something called comedy, let's begin with the present time scum bags of the world of PvP, Nightblades and Sorcerers. You may have noticed that everyone is throwing rotten tomatoes in their direction and calling for their death all over the forums. As we all know, this has never happened to Dragonknights and Templars before... oh wait, yes it has. I'll get to the current 'victims' later. It's either Nightblades are too OP, or Sorcerers are too OP, or both. Either way, both classes have been dominating the '#de-buff the w*nkers' headlines for several months now. In my opinion it is both justified and unjustified.
To me, it makes sense that Nighblades and Sorcerers can deal a lot of damage. They're the de facto go to classes for damage dealing in the most interesting ways. Sorcerers should have a wide variety of ranged damage dealing and ranged attack defence abilities at their disposal whilst Nightblades should be able to dissapear and deal lots of damage to the unsuspecting poor sod they're going for and trap and ambush unsuspecting players. Damage wise, there's nothing wrong. My problem with them both is their survivability and defence. Both classes should have the weakest defences and the lowest amount of health. Let me explain.
With the majority of sorcerer offensive abilities being ranged, having the lightning bolt escape ability at their disposal and the ability to summon Daedra to do the dirty work (f*cking slavers), one would gather that sorcerers are supposed to be dealing damage from afar and should be doing their best to avoid close encounters with their opponents. Having a damage shield which protects them from ranged attacks would make sense, however being able to survive up close from melee attacks should be near impossible since they aren't warriors made to survive heavy blows from swords, axes and hammers and are unlikely to employ weapons or armour capable of doing so because it would harm their magical capabilities. Therefore they should be punished for getting close to opponents as their class was not made with face to face confrontation in mind.
Nightblades are supposed to stay hidden, jump an enemy when they're vulnerable and quickly take them. They should be able to do this ranged or close up, but whatever the case they should receive a penalty for not being able to stay in the shadows. They shouldn't be able to be discovered and then manage to win a confrontation. Their health and defence rating should be the lowest of all classes and Nightblades should be forced to flee instead of being able to fight when they are discovered.
Now on to the 'victims' of the current Sorctatorship and the Night Brotherhood Dragonknights and Templars have both similarities and differences. Dragonknights are made to deal damage whilst being able to soke it up like they're the guy who lives in a pineapple under the sea, whilst Templars are also able to soke up damage, but are great healers. Both classes have serious problems; Dragonknights have been nerfed so much it's a wonder why they aren't shooting foam bullets and Templars are a somewhat viable choice for damage dealers despite being dedicated to healing. Again, let me explain.
Templars are natural healers. With their excellent tanking abilities and a wide range of offensive abilities at their disposal, Templars make the ultimate battle medic. Despite this, healing isn't the only thing they're known for as they have ridiculously powerful abilities, the most noteworthy being the infamous 'Jesus/Jebus beam'. Templars should have the weakest damage output of all the classes. Templars should only need the offensive abilities for self defence as their primary job is to heal their allies and stop them from dying, not going around and shooting lasers like every time they step into a room it becomes a rave. Considering they can heal themselves effectively and absorb reasonable amounts of damage, there's very few reasons to justify the high amounts of damage they currently do.
Now onto the Dragonknights. Unlike the other classes, Dragonknights have had to put up with countless nerfs which have nearly broken the class. Dragonknights need a serious buff, we all know it. Dragonknights are supposed to be the ultimate melee damage dealer and tank. They're meant to be the first to charge into battle and the last to walk away. No other class should be able to match them in melee damage, damage resistance and resource management as they're made to last and are an excellent choice for those who like to get up close and personal with their opponent. With Dark Brotherhood on the way, Dragonknights are to be made more powerful as they will now be able to employ poison. Yep, we'll be able to swap being a pyromaniac for a walking nuclear warhead. I've no idea whose 'brilliant' idea this is, but I can't get my head around as to why someone thought fire specialists would look into becoming the irradiated spawn of Chernobyl instead. Seriously, what relevance does poison have to walking chunks of molten rocks carrying a sword? Another problem with Dragonknights are the people who want it to become powerful again. Buffing it up so they stand a chance in PvP again makes sense, adding an escape ability and adding more ranged attacks doesn't. Going back to one of my original points, Dragonknights are made to last, there's very little reason as to why they need to run away, especially since they're supposed to be the first in and the last out, it contradicts why Dragonknights exists in the first place. Also the ranged attacks scenario, again, very contradicting since Dragonknights are made for face to face confrontation. There's a reason why they're the only class with an ability like fiery chains that pulls an enemy towards them. It's one thing Dragonknights being buffed so they can be restored as a viable option again, but it's another to want abilities to be included that may very well defeat the purpose of the the class' existence.
Now for an overlook of the class system in ESO. There's a love and hate relationship with its implementation. It's hated because it means that there's very limited customisation choices and no longer follows the pattern of previous titles. It's loved because it means that no class (in theory for obvious reasons) is too weak or too powerful and each class had a role to play. Nice in theory, functions like sh*t. Why is it a stinking pile of horse cack? Builds. They're the problem. How are they a problem? Here's a few examples...
Melee Sorcerer
Tank Nightblade
Healer Dragonknight
DPS Templar
Anyone guessed the problem yet? A hint, what relevance to the builds have to the
class they're made for? From my point of view, none of them make any sense. Unfortunately they do in game. It's got the point that the amount of builds that can make one class superior at role that another class was specifically designed for that it defeats the point of classes existing. Why is this happening? If you want to be a tank, you should be a Dragonknight or a Templar, not a Nightblade. If you want to be a melee build, you should be anything but a Sorcerer. If you want to be a healer you should be a Templar, not a Dragonknight. If you want to be a DPS, you should be anything but a Templar.
As far as I'm concerned, each class has a role to play and they each have abilities which allow them to do that role. Examples of such abilities is the Nightblade's cloak ability which allows them to turn invisible and become the ultimate jump scare; another ability is the classical 'stop stealing my enemies' chain employed by Dragonknights to p*ss off Sorcerers attempting to escape and to troll grinders. These abilities are exclusive to those classes because both allow them to live up to the class' purpose. Give something similar to Sorcerers and Templars and then it ruins the purpose of the former two classes. Many people want the classes to have an equivalent to each other's abilities or make them just as effective as each other in the same situations by employing builds. They'll then become the exact same and the only differences will be that they have different names and some classes look and sound more cooler than others. If you can be one class but outperform another class at a task that other class was made for, classes make as much sense in this game as wheels would on a yacht.
The whole class system is in big sh*t right now. The classes are all broken, in one way or another. Builds take advantage of these broken classes to make them even more broken. The people who claim to 'love' their classes just want to denaturise them so every class has the same abilities that are just themed to look like the class they're used by. Things like this just raise the question 'why did Zenimax f*cking bother'?
Is there anyone else who thinks the way I do in regards to the classes? Anyone want to add anything else? Anyone want to praise and/or criticise anything I've written about? Be my guest. Although I won't be staying up for it because I've been going at this rant for nearly four hours, it's nearly 2am where I am and I'm very tired. I'd like to add more detail to this post but I've not got the energy to do it so if anyone has anything to say I'll respond as of when later today.
Every now and then, I read up about someone or some people having a go at a certain class for this and that reasons (usually because they're over-powered in PvP), others complain that the class they love has been cast to the shadows because of countless de-buffs, many more complain that every class needs an equivalent ability or that they're missing what others have. To sum it all up, I'm sick to death of it all! Seriously, if my bin wasn't full of tissues because of my recent cold, I'd be throwing up in it for every post I've came across which discusses classes being too OP or too weak (I should also earn £1 per post too, but oh well. Life's too cruel). Do you want my opinion on it all? You do? Okay then. Every single class, Dragonknights, Sorcerers, Templars and Nightblades, they're all BROKEN!
How did I come to such a conclusion you may be asking? Well, with my knowledge of each class (I've had a go at them all so don't panic) and what's left of my sanity before Sheogorath drags me into the Shivering Isles, I'll explain my view on each class, what I think about the class system and why it's currently in a worse state than Kvatch was left in in Oblivion. Go ahead, approve or disapprove. Love or hate. I'm not out to make friends and unfortunately most of us live in a 'democracy' so everyone is entitled to their opinion, regardless of whether it has any real meaning or if it's complete b*ll*cks.
To start us off on our magnificent journey of harsh opinions and the occasional use of something called comedy, let's begin with the present time scum bags of the world of PvP, Nightblades and Sorcerers. You may have noticed that everyone is throwing rotten tomatoes in their direction and calling for their death all over the forums. As we all know, this has never happened to Dragonknights and Templars before... oh wait, yes it has. I'll get to the current 'victims' later. It's either Nightblades are too OP, or Sorcerers are too OP, or both. Either way, both classes have been dominating the '#de-buff the w*nkers' headlines for several months now. In my opinion it is both justified and unjustified.
To me, it makes sense that Nighblades and Sorcerers can deal a lot of damage. They're the de facto go to classes for damage dealing in the most interesting ways. Sorcerers should have a wide variety of ranged damage dealing and ranged attack defence abilities at their disposal whilst Nightblades should be able to dissapear and deal lots of damage to the unsuspecting poor sod they're going for and trap and ambush unsuspecting players. Damage wise, there's nothing wrong. My problem with them both is their survivability and defence. Both classes should have the weakest defences and the lowest amount of health. Let me explain.
With the majority of sorcerer offensive abilities being ranged, having the lightning bolt escape ability at their disposal and the ability to summon Daedra to do the dirty work (f*cking slavers), one would gather that sorcerers are supposed to be dealing damage from afar and should be doing their best to avoid close encounters with their opponents. Having a damage shield which protects them from ranged attacks would make sense, however being able to survive up close from melee attacks should be near impossible since they aren't warriors made to survive heavy blows from swords, axes and hammers and are unlikely to employ weapons or armour capable of doing so because it would harm their magical capabilities. Therefore they should be punished for getting close to opponents as their class was not made with face to face confrontation in mind.
Nightblades are supposed to stay hidden, jump an enemy when they're vulnerable and quickly take them. They should be able to do this ranged or close up, but whatever the case they should receive a penalty for not being able to stay in the shadows. They shouldn't be able to be discovered and then manage to win a confrontation. Their health and defence rating should be the lowest of all classes and Nightblades should be forced to flee instead of being able to fight when they are discovered.
Now on to the 'victims' of the current Sorctatorship and the Night Brotherhood Dragonknights and Templars have both similarities and differences. Dragonknights are made to deal damage whilst being able to soke it up like they're the guy who lives in a pineapple under the sea, whilst Templars are also able to soke up damage, but are great healers. Both classes have serious problems; Dragonknights have been nerfed so much it's a wonder why they aren't shooting foam bullets and Templars are a somewhat viable choice for damage dealers despite being dedicated to healing. Again, let me explain.
Templars are natural healers. With their excellent tanking abilities and a wide range of offensive abilities at their disposal, Templars make the ultimate battle medic. Despite this, healing isn't the only thing they're known for as they have ridiculously powerful abilities, the most noteworthy being the infamous 'Jesus/Jebus beam'. Templars should have the weakest damage output of all the classes. Templars should only need the offensive abilities for self defence as their primary job is to heal their allies and stop them from dying, not going around and shooting lasers like every time they step into a room it becomes a rave. Considering they can heal themselves effectively and absorb reasonable amounts of damage, there's very few reasons to justify the high amounts of damage they currently do.
Now onto the Dragonknights. Unlike the other classes, Dragonknights have had to put up with countless nerfs which have nearly broken the class. Dragonknights need a serious buff, we all know it. Dragonknights are supposed to be the ultimate melee damage dealer and tank. They're meant to be the first to charge into battle and the last to walk away. No other class should be able to match them in melee damage, damage resistance and resource management as they're made to last and are an excellent choice for those who like to get up close and personal with their opponent. With Dark Brotherhood on the way, Dragonknights are to be made more powerful as they will now be able to employ poison. Yep, we'll be able to swap being a pyromaniac for a walking nuclear warhead. I've no idea whose 'brilliant' idea this is, but I can't get my head around as to why someone thought fire specialists would look into becoming the irradiated spawn of Chernobyl instead. Seriously, what relevance does poison have to walking chunks of molten rocks carrying a sword? Another problem with Dragonknights are the people who want it to become powerful again. Buffing it up so they stand a chance in PvP again makes sense, adding an escape ability and adding more ranged attacks doesn't. Going back to one of my original points, Dragonknights are made to last, there's very little reason as to why they need to run away, especially since they're supposed to be the first in and the last out, it contradicts why Dragonknights exists in the first place. Also the ranged attacks scenario, again, very contradicting since Dragonknights are made for face to face confrontation. There's a reason why they're the only class with an ability like fiery chains that pulls an enemy towards them. It's one thing Dragonknights being buffed so they can be restored as a viable option again, but it's another to want abilities to be included that may very well defeat the purpose of the the class' existence.
Now for an overlook of the class system in ESO. There's a love and hate relationship with its implementation. It's hated because it means that there's very limited customisation choices and no longer follows the pattern of previous titles. It's loved because it means that no class (in theory for obvious reasons) is too weak or too powerful and each class had a role to play. Nice in theory, functions like sh*t. Why is it a stinking pile of horse cack? Builds. They're the problem. How are they a problem? Here's a few examples...
Melee Sorcerer
Tank Nightblade
Healer Dragonknight
DPS Templar
Anyone guessed the problem yet? A hint, what relevance to the builds have to the
class they're made for? From my point of view, none of them make any sense. Unfortunately they do in game. It's got the point that the amount of builds that can make one class superior at role that another class was specifically designed for that it defeats the point of classes existing. Why is this happening? If you want to be a tank, you should be a Dragonknight or a Templar, not a Nightblade. If you want to be a melee build, you should be anything but a Sorcerer. If you want to be a healer you should be a Templar, not a Dragonknight. If you want to be a DPS, you should be anything but a Templar.
As far as I'm concerned, each class has a role to play and they each have abilities which allow them to do that role. Examples of such abilities is the Nightblade's cloak ability which allows them to turn invisible and become the ultimate jump scare; another ability is the classical 'stop stealing my enemies' chain employed by Dragonknights to p*ss off Sorcerers attempting to escape and to troll grinders. These abilities are exclusive to those classes because both allow them to live up to the class' purpose. Give something similar to Sorcerers and Templars and then it ruins the purpose of the former two classes. Many people want the classes to have an equivalent to each other's abilities or make them just as effective as each other in the same situations by employing builds. They'll then become the exact same and the only differences will be that they have different names and some classes look and sound more cooler than others. If you can be one class but outperform another class at a task that other class was made for, classes make as much sense in this game as wheels would on a yacht.
The whole class system is in big sh*t right now. The classes are all broken, in one way or another. Builds take advantage of these broken classes to make them even more broken. The people who claim to 'love' their classes just want to denaturise them so every class has the same abilities that are just themed to look like the class they're used by. Things like this just raise the question 'why did Zenimax f*cking bother'?
Is there anyone else who thinks the way I do in regards to the classes? Anyone want to add anything else? Anyone want to praise and/or criticise anything I've written about? Be my guest. Although I won't be staying up for it because I've been going at this rant for nearly four hours, it's nearly 2am where I am and I'm very tired. I'd like to add more detail to this post but I've not got the energy to do it so if anyone has anything to say I'll respond as of when later today.
7
-
PurifedBladez✭✭✭✭✭I kind of agree with you. There was a couple things I disagreed on but, I'd rather have a class system like you posted.
I've always lol'd at stam sorcs. They don't make any sense and, everyone cries for buffs to be thrown thay way. I feel like I'm the only one who just doesn't get it. Very stupid and they shouldn't be buffed at all, ever.3 -
Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭Objection! This game was meant for you to beable too a class to a certain role! Sure some may seem more viable for it like Templars for Healing but Nightblades also have abilities to heal look at the siphon tree for a second. You can see that you can increase healing per siphon ability slotted with a passive. Many other examples but I am typing this on a PS4 controller and it tedious.Edited by Whatzituyah on May 13, 2016 1:16AMhttps://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah1 -
The_Smilemeister✭✭✭✭✭PurifedBladez wrote: »I kind of agree with you. There was a couple things I disagreed on but, I'd rather have a class system like you posted.
I've always lol'd at stam sorcs. They don't make any sense and, everyone cries for buffs to be thrown thay way. I feel like I'm the only one who just doesn't get it. Very stupid and they shouldn't be buffed at all, ever.
Join the club. I never got my head around stamina Sorcerers either.1 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OpponentSmile66 wrote: »PurifedBladez wrote: »I kind of agree with you. There was a couple things I disagreed on but, I'd rather have a class system like you posted.
I've always lol'd at stam sorcs. They don't make any sense and, everyone cries for buffs to be thrown thay way. I feel like I'm the only one who just doesn't get it. Very stupid and they shouldn't be buffed at all, ever.
Join the club. I never got my head around stamina Sorcerers either.
Yeah, having taken a year break and coming back to constant complaining about Stam Sorcs, I was really confused. "Wait, when did Stam Sorc even become anyone even thought should be viable?" Sorc is my main, and I can definitely see how it's comparatively weaker than it was when I left, but what a strange thing.
Of course, I kind of still think ZOS should have stuck to their guns on hybrid being the most viable build, and there shouldn't be a Magica or a Stamina anything."A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle2 -
Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭Asherons_Call wrote: »I've seen longer
I did too on other forums.MasterSpatula wrote: »OpponentSmile66 wrote: »PurifedBladez wrote: »I kind of agree with you. There was a couple things I disagreed on but, I'd rather have a class system like you posted.
I've always lol'd at stam sorcs. They don't make any sense and, everyone cries for buffs to be thrown thay way. I feel like I'm the only one who just doesn't get it. Very stupid and they shouldn't be buffed at all, ever.
Join the club. I never got my head around stamina Sorcerers either.
Yeah, having taken a year break and coming back to constant complaining about Stam Sorcs, I was really confused. "Wait, when did Stam Sorc even become anyone even thought should be viable?" Sorc is my main, and I can definitely see how it's comparatively weaker than it was when I left, but what a strange thing.
Of course, I kind of still think ZOS should have stuck to their guns on hybrid being the most viable build, and there shouldn't be a Magica or a Stamina anything.
Your last comment I agree their needs to be a different stat to determine how strong a attack should be I don't mean just the weapon itself or your resources like it is now but what could that be.Edited by Whatzituyah on May 13, 2016 1:27AMhttps://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah0 -
The_Smilemeister✭✭✭✭✭Whatzituyah wrote: »Asherons_Call wrote: »I've seen longer
I did too on other forums.
Oh no, my hopes were dashed! Better luck next time I guess. Lol0 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OpponentSmile66 wrote: »Go ahead, approve or disapprove. Love or hate. I'm not out to make friends and unfortunately most of us live in a 'democracy' so everyone is entitled to their opinion, regardless of whether it has any real meaning or if it's complete b*ll*cks.
signing off3 -
The_Smilemeister✭✭✭✭✭OpponentSmile66 wrote: »Go ahead, approve or disapprove. Love or hate. I'm not out to make friends and unfortunately most of us live in a 'democracy' so everyone is entitled to their opinion, regardless of whether it has any real meaning or if it's complete b*ll*cks.
Love the picture. Haha0 -
Father_X_Zombie✭✭✭✭Ugh....Stam sorcs........
I agree with pretty much everything, but as a sorc I'm a bit worried about DKs getting a buff. Out of all of the classes DKs wreck me the most like you said they should. They should get more DPS options so they're not stuck running around spamming Wrecking Blow. And something should be done concerning the perma dodge roll/shuffle meta that is currently plaguing PvP. When DB hits, they are getting a decent dmg shield too, so....stam = god mode?
GT: AK x Zombie
Marcurio Avidius - Breton Sorcerer - The Flawless Conquerer - General
Raven Avidius - Imperial Nightblade - Stormproof
Cicero Avidius - Imperial Templar - First Sergeant
Audens Avidius - Breton Templar - Stormproof
Jimi Hendrix - Redguard Dragonknight - Stormproof
Leliana Artaine - Breton Nightblade - Stormproof
Brutus Decinus - Imperial Sorcerer - Stormproof AD
Wait aren't you DC - Dark elf Nightblade EP
Achilleus Infernium - Breton Dragonknight
Claudia Aurella - Imperial Warden
DC NA XB1
RIP XB1 NA Chillrend 2015-2017
Home to emp farmers and roleplayers
Put out of its misery by Brian Wheeler2 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OP, you are looking at "classes" in this game all wrong. This is not a rock-paper-scissors class system. In general, ZOS seems to want everyone to have a reasonable opportunity to be rock, paper, scissors, or some combination of these. Classes provide flavor and utility while also giving competitive edge or niche to each class.
For example, Nightblades are the best stealthers, but any class can build for stealth play. Templars are the best healers, but any class can build to be a competitive healer. For the record, I especially refute your pidgeon-holing of Templars to healing - they have ONE healing tree and TWO direct damage trees.
A really awesome thing about the class system in this game is that you can choose to specialize into stamina and weapon skills, essentially providing a highly customizable/hybridized fifth class that anyone can become.
Now, the actual problem with design in this game is that there aren't enough weaknesses to balance strengths. So in that sense I think we would agree fully. If you spec full DPS, your healing output and survivability should be garbage. If you spec tank/survivability, your DPS output should be garbage. And so on. But it's not like that at all - everybody gets to have everything and sacrifice nothing. ZOS has created a system without depth and is not very interesting. They are lucky the combat system is so amazing and visceral, otherwise I don't think this game would have much of a PvP community.
So anyway, that is why Sorcs and Nb's are especially broken right now. They can most easily be built for maximum damage output, maximum self-healing, maximum mobility, and maximum survivability all at the same time. They truly can have it all. With that said, the DB DLC is bringing some nice balance changes - it will be interesting to see how it plays out. But, the overall design flaw will remain, but that is just the nature of the game and I don't see it changing.3 -
dem0n1k✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dislike it when people have an differing opinion about an issue & so call it "broken" as if that somehow validates their opinion.
You've got some opinions on how the classes might be based on your own internal interpretation of each class... but they are not broken.. they all work very well if played right.Edited by dem0n1k on May 13, 2016 2:49AMNA Server [PC] -- Mostly Ebonheart Pact, Mostly.4 -
CaptainBeerDude✭✭✭✭✭PurifedBladez wrote: »I kind of agree with you. There was a couple things I disagreed on but, I'd rather have a class system like you posted.
I've always lol'd at stam sorcs. They don't make any sense and, everyone cries for buffs to be thrown thay way. I feel like I'm the only one who just doesn't get it. Very stupid and they shouldn't be buffed at all, ever.
...there is NPC stam sorcs...
...check ES lore on sorcs and try again...0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OpponentSmile66 wrote: »PurifedBladez wrote: »I kind of agree with you. There was a couple things I disagreed on but, I'd rather have a class system like you posted.
I've always lol'd at stam sorcs. They don't make any sense and, everyone cries for buffs to be thrown thay way. I feel like I'm the only one who just doesn't get it. Very stupid and they shouldn't be buffed at all, ever.
Join the club. I never got my head around stamina Sorcerers either.
Spellblades.
My problem is with magicka NBs. They are a mixture of so many archetypes they end up being nothing specific. Are they warlocks? Are they illusionists? Are they shadow mage assassins? Are they elementalists? Are they blood mages? Nope, none of those really. A mongrel class without own identity using a mix of spells from completely different archetypes because its effective.Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on May 13, 2016 3:59AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.1 -
Shadowfx1970✭✭✭Sorry I couldn't read it all I fell asleep not even half way through, not the post just tiredI went outside once, the graphics were awesome but the gameplay sucked0 -
RocDonald✭✭✭It would be nice if they even fixed things like the stupid elevation issue with chains or the fact that reflective scale doesn't really do any damage at all lol (wasted a skill point). I don't really have anything else to gripe about, I've been mostly happy with how my DK has turned out. Totally agree on the stam sorc thing, it really just doesn't make any sense. I guess puke breath doesn't really either in regards to the upcoming DK update.0 -
The_Smilemeister✭✭✭✭✭OP, you are looking at "classes" in this game all wrong. This is not a rock-paper-scissors class system. In general, ZOS seems to want everyone to have a reasonable opportunity to be rock, paper, scissors, or some combination of these. Classes provide flavor and utility while also giving competitive edge or niche to each class.
For example, Nightblades are the best stealthers, but any class can build for stealth play. Templars are the best healers, but any class can build to be a competitive healer. For the record, I especially refute your pidgeon-holing of Templars to healing - they have ONE healing tree and TWO direct damage trees.
A really awesome thing about the class system in this game is that you can choose to specialize into stamina and weapon skills, essentially providing a highly customizable/hybridized fifth class that anyone can become.
Now, the actual problem with design in this game is that there aren't enough weaknesses to balance strengths. So in that sense I think we would agree fully. If you spec full DPS, your healing output and survivability should be garbage. If you spec tank/survivability, your DPS output should be garbage. And so on. But it's not like that at all - everybody gets to have everything and sacrifice nothing. ZOS has created a system without depth and is not very interesting. They are lucky the combat system is so amazing and visceral, otherwise I don't think this game would have much of a PvP community.
So anyway, that is why Sorcs and Nb's are especially broken right now. They can most easily be built for maximum damage output, maximum self-healing, maximum mobility, and maximum survivability all at the same time. They truly can have it all. With that said, the DB DLC is bringing some nice balance changes - it will be interesting to see how it plays out. But, the overall design flaw will remain, but that is just the nature of the game and I don't see it changing.OP, you are looking at "classes" in this game all wrong. This is not a rock-paper-scissors class system. In general, ZOS seems to want everyone to have a reasonable opportunity to be rock, paper, scissors, or some combination of these. Classes provide flavor and utility while also giving competitive edge or niche to each class.
For example, Nightblades are the best stealthers, but any class can build for stealth play. Templars are the best healers, but any class can build to be a competitive healer. For the record, I especially refute your pidgeon-holing of Templars to healing - they have ONE healing tree and TWO direct damage trees.
A really awesome thing about the class system in this game is that you can choose to specialize into stamina and weapon skills, essentially providing a highly customizable/hybridized fifth class that anyone can become.
Now, the actual problem with design in this game is that there aren't enough weaknesses to balance strengths. So in that sense I think we would agree fully. If you spec full DPS, your healing output and survivability should be garbage. If you spec tank/survivability, your DPS output should be garbage. And so on. But it's not like that at all - everybody gets to have everything and sacrifice nothing. ZOS has created a system without depth and is not very interesting. They are lucky the combat system is so amazing and visceral, otherwise I don't think this game would have much of a PvP community.
So anyway, that is why Sorcs and Nb's are especially broken right now. They can most easily be built for maximum damage output, maximum self-healing, maximum mobility, and maximum survivability all at the same time. They truly can have it all. With that said, the DB DLC is bringing some nice balance changes - it will be interesting to see how it plays out. But, the overall design flaw will remain, but that is just the nature of the game and I don't see it changing.
To be honest, I agree. I was planning on talking about strengths and weaknesses but I got too tired in the end. There were plenty of things I was going to add after I finished talking about the class system. I'll probably end up doing that since there are things I wanted to clarify after re-reading my post. Either points are missing or they're not very well explained.0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭a lot of things are broken,not just classes.it's the longest beta I've ever been involved in.0 -
RedFireDisco✭✭✭✭I've said it repeatedly, Dragonknights need the best shield in the game because they rely on Dot's and have to last a fight with no burst damage. Halve sorc shield strength and triple obshield and they'd be roughly the same. That's the most stupid thing I have ever seen.
Dragon knights shouldn't need to be at level 5 undaunted to run a half decent shield.0 -
JD2013✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PurifedBladez wrote: »I kind of agree with you. There was a couple things I disagreed on but, I'd rather have a class system like you posted.
I've always lol'd at stam sorcs. They don't make any sense and, everyone cries for buffs to be thrown thay way. I feel like I'm the only one who just doesn't get it. Very stupid and they shouldn't be buffed at all, ever.
Never understood Stam Sorcs either. Go ask for one in any other MMO and you would get confused looks.Sweetrolls for all!
Christophe Mottierre - Breton Templar with his own whole darn estate! Templar Houses are so 2015. EU DC
PC Beta Tester January 2014
Elder of The Black
Order of Sithis
The Runners
@TamrielTraverse - For Tamriel related Twitter shenanigans!
https://tamrieltraveller.wordpress.com/
Crafting bag OP! ZOS nerf pls!2 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PurifedBladez wrote: »I kind of agree with you. There was a couple things I disagreed on but, I'd rather have a class system like you posted.
I've always lol'd at stam sorcs. They don't make any sense and, everyone cries for buffs to be thrown thay way. I feel like I'm the only one who just doesn't get it. Very stupid and they shouldn't be buffed at all, ever.
Never understood Stam Sorcs either. Go ask for one in any other MMO and you would get confused looks.
Its an Elder Scrolls thing:
Spellsword
Battlemage
Also Id be very surprised if people playing Rift, FF, WoW, GW2, Vundictus, TSW, Cabal Online, Age of Conan, etc. were confused when asked about melee damage dealing classes or builds which also used magic based attacks/buffs/summons.
Edited by khele23eb17_ESO on May 13, 2016 10:56AMP2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
Bonzodog01✭✭✭✭✭I have actually noticed that a lot of the storyline quest bosses are Stam Sorcs, (two handed, heavy armor, yet able to push out liquid lightning et al), and its known that at least two of the devs run Stam sorcs as main characters.
So, to me, this says one thing - they are trying to encourage more people to Hybridise their chars, and are attempting to kill off the min/max attitude that has ruined so many MMO's.
Personally, I applaud them for attempting this. Far too many MMO games have been ruined by the Min/max attitude to class builds, and people attempting to pigeon-hole classes.
In fact, they need to make more of an effort to encourage less min/max-ing and more hybridisation. So, I will be starting a seperate thread to discuss this further.Xbox One - EU - EP/DCTrying and failing to hold the walls of his Templar house up since 20150