Necromancer

k9mouse

If ZOS adds necromancy as skill line; it has to follow some ground rules (aka lore)

1) The important rule any new skill must follow is lore (the logic and history of Nirn / TES games)

2) By definition of the Necromancy School that raised the dead; it must have and use undead bodies. In gameplay terms, a player must kill a NPC and then that player could use the body for a thrall (like a sorc pet).

3) The class either have be an ex Worm cult member or never had join to keep in lore with the main story.

4) Any other ground rules that Necromancy skill line follow?

What type of lore friendly skills do you think that might be in a Necromancy skill line should have? Any ideas will work as long they are lore friendly.

Please note: as long as the skill is lore friend I am interested hearing your idea. If your idea is not lore friendly, I am not interested in your idea.

nordsavage

No to necromancer. Summoning and siphoning belong to other classes already. Plus necromancers are the in game enemy. We need a stamina based melee class.

lassitershawn

Necromancy doesn't NEED always need a fresh dead body, in Skyrim for example you could summon Bonemen/Mistmen/Wrathmen from the Soul Cairn.

I would like at least one spell that doesn't require a dead body, but the more powerful spells should require one. Also if there were skills such as "Coldfire Bolt" or something and not just resurrection skills, they obviously wouldn't need a dead body.

ShedsHisTail

As much as I hate to say it, but Necromancy in Elder Scrolls lore basically boils down to one skill; the ability to reanimate the dead in some form or another..

Rather than add a whole character class, it makes a lot more sense to just tack that one skill onto some other skill set. Like Soul Magic. Make it cost a soul gem, and it's a universal skill anyone can get. Then anyone who wants to can call themselves a Necromancer.

Edit: Quality of undead beasty directly linked to the quality of soulgem expended.

lassitershawn

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it, but Necromancy in Elder Scrolls lore basically boils down to one skill; the ability to reanimate the dead in some form or another..

Rather than add a whole character class, it makes a lot more sense to just tack that one skill onto some other skill set. Like Soul Magic. Make it cost a soul gem, and it's a universal skill anyone can get. Then anyone who wants to can call themselves a Necromancer.

Edit: Quality of undead beasty directly linked to the quality of soulgem expended.

I think they could do a lot more than this... you could have some kind of ultimate summoning a lich (or possibly even toggle you INTO a lich), a skill that sends in an exploding poison skeleton (like in vCoA), include a "Coldfire Bolt" spell that would add usable ice damage into the game (not technically necromancy but fits with the feeling I get from a necromancer), and then obviously a skill that resurrects a dead body.

One very interesting thing necromancy could do to the game, is allow you to resurrect enemy players in PvP, preventing their side from bringing them back with a soul gem. Obviously would have to have a long cast time but could be very cool.

Edit: If you turned an enemy player into your zombie they would obviously still be able to wayshrine.

dem0n1k

It'd be cool if you could re-animate dead enemy players bodies & they couldn't respawn till released Have their re-animated corpses run back & attack their faction mates (maybe with the same effect as a meatbag catapult for the LOLs)

lassitershawn

dem0n1k wrote: »

It'd be cool if you could re-animate dead enemy players bodies & they couldn't respawn till released Have their re-animated corpses run back & attack their faction mates (maybe with the same effect as a meatbag catapult for the LOLs)

This would unfortunately lead to griefing lol. But even stopping an enemy from rezzing one of their allies at the place of death would be very powerful, especially if you were part of a smaller group fighting a larger one.

ShedsHisTail

lassitershawn wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it, but Necromancy in Elder Scrolls lore basically boils down to one skill; the ability to reanimate the dead in some form or another..

Rather than add a whole character class, it makes a lot more sense to just tack that one skill onto some other skill set. Like Soul Magic. Make it cost a soul gem, and it's a universal skill anyone can get. Then anyone who wants to can call themselves a Necromancer.

Edit: Quality of undead beasty directly linked to the quality of soulgem expended.

I think they could do a lot more than this... you could have some kind of ultimate summoning a lich (or possibly even toggle you INTO a lich), a skill that sends in an exploding poison skeleton (like in vCoA), include a "Coldfire Bolt" spell that would add usable ice damage into the game (not technically necromancy but fits with the feeling I get from a necromancer), and then obviously a skill that resurrects a dead body.

But the question was, lore-friendly options. Those are not.
1.) A lich is not a thing you summon, they're free-willed undead bound by their own volition.
2.) Becoming a lich is a lengthy ritual and not reversible.
3.) Poison skeleton needs fresh skeleton to work; probably be disease damage.
4.) Pretty sure Destruction Staff already has something like a Coldfire Bolt.
5.) Reanimating a dead body could work, but, like you said in the rest of your post, it'd have to be a long cast time.

I know that all sounds nit-picky, but I didn't come up with the lore-friendly qualifier. I'm just adhering to it.
There's just really not much to differentiate an Elder Scrolls necromancer from any other Elder Scrolls mage.

Runaan

I support Necromancer as a new skill line completely. However, not as a whole new class in any way.

lassitershawn

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it, but Necromancy in Elder Scrolls lore basically boils down to one skill; the ability to reanimate the dead in some form or another..

Rather than add a whole character class, it makes a lot more sense to just tack that one skill onto some other skill set. Like Soul Magic. Make it cost a soul gem, and it's a universal skill anyone can get. Then anyone who wants to can call themselves a Necromancer.

Edit: Quality of undead beasty directly linked to the quality of soulgem expended.

I think they could do a lot more than this... you could have some kind of ultimate summoning a lich (or possibly even toggle you INTO a lich), a skill that sends in an exploding poison skeleton (like in vCoA), include a "Coldfire Bolt" spell that would add usable ice damage into the game (not technically necromancy but fits with the feeling I get from a necromancer), and then obviously a skill that resurrects a dead body.

But the question was, lore-friendly options. Those are not.
1.) A lich is not a thing you summon, they're free-willed undead bound by their own volition.
2.) Becoming a lich is a lengthy ritual and not reversible.
3.) Poison skeleton needs fresh skeleton to work; probably be disease damage.
4.) Pretty sure Destruction Staff already has something like a Coldfire Bolt.
5.) Reanimating a dead body could work, but, like you said in the rest of your post, it'd have to be a long cast time.

I know that all sounds nit-picky, but I didn't come up with the lore-friendly qualifier. I'm just adhering to it.
There's just really not much to differentiate an Elder Scrolls necromancer from any other Elder Scrolls mage.

Yes ik it isn't lore-friendly in the slightest to either summon or be a lich, but it would be epic lets be honest.

Not necessarily on the poison skeleton. As I stated above, you can summon bonemen (which are essentially skeletons) from the Soul Cairn without possessing a physical skeleton.

Destruction staff definitely does not have a Coldfire Bolt. You can use an ice staff for ice damage, but other staff types are almost always better.

lassitershawn

Runaan wrote: »

I support Necromancer as a new skill line completely. However, not as a whole new class in any way.

Agreed. I would also like the summons from Sorcerer class to become universal and give us something else cool in their place, but I'm sure this will never happen.

ShedsHisTail

Runaan wrote: »

I support Necromancer as a new skill line completely. However, not as a whole new class in any way.

Maybe a -set- of skills added to the Soul Magic line?
Two or three skills on the theme of necromancy.

I still think a universal skill that reanimates the dead should at least cost a soul stone.
Giving every player the option of having a combat pet; even temporarily, should have a cost.

lassitershawn

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Runaan wrote: »

I support Necromancer as a new skill line completely. However, not as a whole new class in any way.

Maybe a -set- of skills added to the Soul Magic line?
Two or three skills on the theme of necromancy.

I still think a universal skill that reanimates the dead should at least cost a soul stone.
Giving every player the option of having a combat pet; even temporarily, should have a cost.

Cost is bar slots and magicka, especially if they make it like sorc pets and require 2 (PLEASE DONT ZOS). To require a soul gem, they would have to be VERY strong.

Edit: Though possibly making an enemy player in PvP your zombie should require a gem.

ShedsHisTail

I dunno, I'm just not that jazzed about the whole Necromancer thing.

I mean, as a Lore buff and a big supporter of "play the way you want," having it not be an option seems like an oversight. But, from a game design perspective, it just doesn't feel like a big enough variation on the Mage theme to worry about.

I mean, lore-wise, Necromancers are the bad guys. They always have been. In other Elder Scrolls games, if you get caught practicing necromancy in a town, the guards will want to talk to you. Of course, it was the same with being a werewolf or vampire; which, as a lore buff, is another oversight I think should be corrected.

Every time I see a werewolf or vampire in Mournhold or Riften, I sort of just sigh to myself and remember the good old days or previous games. Would make it worse if every third person in town had a zombie trailing behind them.

ParaNostram

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it, but Necromancy in Elder Scrolls lore basically boils down to one skill; the ability to reanimate the dead in some form or another..

Rather than add a whole character class, it makes a lot more sense to just tack that one skill onto some other skill set. Like Soul Magic. Make it cost a soul gem, and it's a universal skill anyone can get. Then anyone who wants to can call themselves a Necromancer.

Edit: Quality of undead beasty directly linked to the quality of soulgem expended.

I think they could do a lot more than this... you could have some kind of ultimate summoning a lich (or possibly even toggle you INTO a lich), a skill that sends in an exploding poison skeleton (like in vCoA), include a "Coldfire Bolt" spell that would add usable ice damage into the game (not technically necromancy but fits with the feeling I get from a necromancer), and then obviously a skill that resurrects a dead body.

But the question was, lore-friendly options. Those are not.
1.) A lich is not a thing you summon, they're free-willed undead bound by their own volition.
2.) Becoming a lich is a lengthy ritual and not reversible.
3.) Poison skeleton needs fresh skeleton to work; probably be disease damage.
4.) Pretty sure Destruction Staff already has something like a Coldfire Bolt.
5.) Reanimating a dead body could work, but, like you said in the rest of your post, it'd have to be a long cast time.

I know that all sounds nit-picky, but I didn't come up with the lore-friendly qualifier. I'm just adhering to it.
There's just really not much to differentiate an Elder Scrolls necromancer from any other Elder Scrolls mage.

You could summon Liches in Oblivion.

ShedsHisTail

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it, but Necromancy in Elder Scrolls lore basically boils down to one skill; the ability to reanimate the dead in some form or another..

Rather than add a whole character class, it makes a lot more sense to just tack that one skill onto some other skill set. Like Soul Magic. Make it cost a soul gem, and it's a universal skill anyone can get. Then anyone who wants to can call themselves a Necromancer.

Edit: Quality of undead beasty directly linked to the quality of soulgem expended.

I think they could do a lot more than this... you could have some kind of ultimate summoning a lich (or possibly even toggle you INTO a lich), a skill that sends in an exploding poison skeleton (like in vCoA), include a "Coldfire Bolt" spell that would add usable ice damage into the game (not technically necromancy but fits with the feeling I get from a necromancer), and then obviously a skill that resurrects a dead body.

But the question was, lore-friendly options. Those are not.
1.) A lich is not a thing you summon, they're free-willed undead bound by their own volition.
2.) Becoming a lich is a lengthy ritual and not reversible.
3.) Poison skeleton needs fresh skeleton to work; probably be disease damage.
4.) Pretty sure Destruction Staff already has something like a Coldfire Bolt.
5.) Reanimating a dead body could work, but, like you said in the rest of your post, it'd have to be a long cast time.

I know that all sounds nit-picky, but I didn't come up with the lore-friendly qualifier. I'm just adhering to it.
There's just really not much to differentiate an Elder Scrolls necromancer from any other Elder Scrolls mage.

You could summon Liches in Oblivion.

Maybe, but Oblivion was terrible.

Eirikir

Runaan wrote: »

I support Necromancer as a new skill line completely. However, not as a whole new class in any way.

That would be the best way I think. The ultimate could supercharge your undead minion, with the morphs temporarily changing them to a supped up flesh or bone creature as seen at chains. Four or five skills to raise and control their undead critters.

Passives could increase the undead's active time, health, damage, with also a utility passive like making undead enemies yellow until you attack or something like that.

notimetocare

Accepability of necromancy varies with time and place.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it, but Necromancy in Elder Scrolls lore basically boils down to one skill; the ability to reanimate the dead in some form or another..

Rather than add a whole character class, it makes a lot more sense to just tack that one skill onto some other skill set. Like Soul Magic. Make it cost a soul gem, and it's a universal skill anyone can get. Then anyone who wants to can call themselves a Necromancer.

Edit: Quality of undead beasty directly linked to the quality of soulgem expended.

I think they could do a lot more than this... you could have some kind of ultimate summoning a lich (or possibly even toggle you INTO a lich), a skill that sends in an exploding poison skeleton (like in vCoA), include a "Coldfire Bolt" spell that would add usable ice damage into the game (not technically necromancy but fits with the feeling I get from a necromancer), and then obviously a skill that resurrects a dead body.

But the question was, lore-friendly options. Those are not.
1.) A lich is not a thing you summon, they're free-willed undead bound by their own volition.
2.) Becoming a lich is a lengthy ritual and not reversible.
3.) Poison skeleton needs fresh skeleton to work; probably be disease damage.
4.) Pretty sure Destruction Staff already has something like a Coldfire Bolt.
5.) Reanimating a dead body could work, but, like you said in the rest of your post, it'd have to be a long cast time.

I know that all sounds nit-picky, but I didn't come up with the lore-friendly qualifier. I'm just adhering to it.
There's just really not much to differentiate an Elder Scrolls necromancer from any other Elder Scrolls mage.

You could summon Liches in Oblivion.

Maybe, but Oblivion was terrible.

Far from it. Second only to Morrowind. Leagues better than the rest after that.

ShedsHisTail

notimetocare wrote: »

Accepability of necromancy varies with time and place.

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it, but Necromancy in Elder Scrolls lore basically boils down to one skill; the ability to reanimate the dead in some form or another..

Rather than add a whole character class, it makes a lot more sense to just tack that one skill onto some other skill set. Like Soul Magic. Make it cost a soul gem, and it's a universal skill anyone can get. Then anyone who wants to can call themselves a Necromancer.

Edit: Quality of undead beasty directly linked to the quality of soulgem expended.

I think they could do a lot more than this... you could have some kind of ultimate summoning a lich (or possibly even toggle you INTO a lich), a skill that sends in an exploding poison skeleton (like in vCoA), include a "Coldfire Bolt" spell that would add usable ice damage into the game (not technically necromancy but fits with the feeling I get from a necromancer), and then obviously a skill that resurrects a dead body.

But the question was, lore-friendly options. Those are not.
1.) A lich is not a thing you summon, they're free-willed undead bound by their own volition.
2.) Becoming a lich is a lengthy ritual and not reversible.
3.) Poison skeleton needs fresh skeleton to work; probably be disease damage.
4.) Pretty sure Destruction Staff already has something like a Coldfire Bolt.
5.) Reanimating a dead body could work, but, like you said in the rest of your post, it'd have to be a long cast time.

I know that all sounds nit-picky, but I didn't come up with the lore-friendly qualifier. I'm just adhering to it.
There's just really not much to differentiate an Elder Scrolls necromancer from any other Elder Scrolls mage.

You could summon Liches in Oblivion.

Maybe, but Oblivion was terrible.

Far from it. Second only to Morrowind. Leagues better than the rest after that.

Yeah, I never really liked Oblivion. Don't get me wrong, I played the hell out of it when it was new, but I always wanted more than it was willing to offer. Felt too traditional to me. It was every other fantasy property with "Elder Scrolls" stamped on the box.

lassitershawn

lassitershawn wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Runaan wrote: »

I support Necromancer as a new skill line completely. However, not as a whole new class in any way.

Maybe a -set- of skills added to the Soul Magic line?
Two or three skills on the theme of necromancy.

I still think a universal skill that reanimates the dead should at least cost a soul stone.
Giving every player the option of having a combat pet; even temporarily, should have a cost.

Cost is bar slots and magicka, especially if they make it like sorc pets and require 2 (PLEASE DONT ZOS). To require a soul gem, they would have to be VERY strong.

ParaNostram wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

lassitershawn wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

As much as I hate to say it, but Necromancy in Elder Scrolls lore basically boils down to one skill; the ability to reanimate the dead in some form or another..

Rather than add a whole character class, it makes a lot more sense to just tack that one skill onto some other skill set. Like Soul Magic. Make it cost a soul gem, and it's a universal skill anyone can get. Then anyone who wants to can call themselves a Necromancer.

Edit: Quality of undead beasty directly linked to the quality of soulgem expended.

I think they could do a lot more than this... you could have some kind of ultimate summoning a lich (or possibly even toggle you INTO a lich), a skill that sends in an exploding poison skeleton (like in vCoA), include a "Coldfire Bolt" spell that would add usable ice damage into the game (not technically necromancy but fits with the feeling I get from a necromancer), and then obviously a skill that resurrects a dead body.

But the question was, lore-friendly options. Those are not.
1.) A lich is not a thing you summon, they're free-willed undead bound by their own volition.
2.) Becoming a lich is a lengthy ritual and not reversible.
3.) Poison skeleton needs fresh skeleton to work; probably be disease damage.
4.) Pretty sure Destruction Staff already has something like a Coldfire Bolt.
5.) Reanimating a dead body could work, but, like you said in the rest of your post, it'd have to be a long cast time.

I know that all sounds nit-picky, but I didn't come up with the lore-friendly qualifier. I'm just adhering to it.
There's just really not much to differentiate an Elder Scrolls necromancer from any other Elder Scrolls mage.

You could summon Liches in Oblivion.

I never played Oblivion... started with Skyrim and went back for some Morrowind. If this is true, this has to be the ultimate >:D

Edit: Quoted myself and you somehow... oops.

Worstluck

No to the new class, but a skill line, hell yeah. I'd be all over that. I usually play a nightblade, then a necromancer in TES.

phairdon

All for necromancy skill lines or class.

IV1IVJA

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

I mean, lore-wise, Necromancers are the bad guys. They always have been. In other Elder Scrolls games, if you get caught practicing necromancy in a town, the guards will want to talk to you. Of course, it was the same with being a werewolf or vampire; which, as a lore buff, is another oversight I think should be corrected.

Every time I see a werewolf or vampire in Mournhold or Riften, I sort of just sigh to myself and remember the good old days or previous games. Would make it worse if every third person in town had a zombie trailing behind them.

Yeah, it should be that if people are openly showing their lycanthropy or vampirisim in public, they should be caught out for that. Connect it to the Justice System or something. Otherwise, NPCs go from telling you how they hate/are going to kill this creature, to being ok with them, and even talking to them.

Anyway, on topic, there should be some necromancy skills attached to the soul magic skill line. It doesn't have to be a separate skill line itself, but could be. What it shouldn't be, is a separate class. There's just not enough different from the current classes, as pointed out by 'nordsavage'. Also, as I was just talking about with lycanthropy and vampirism, if you have your undead 'pets' walking around with you in public, you should be caught for that.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Necro's do not 'need' a body to summon a spirit. in oblivion and morrowind, you did not need a body. however for this skill line, i dont mind it, would add a unique flavor, however there should be one summon that is summonable without a body, maybe a spirit of some sort.

and yes, i think necromancy should be added to the game, every past TES game in the series allowed it.

k9mouse

Some interesting ideas, does anyone have anymore ideas?

Abeille

An excuse for you to be granted special permission for using necromancy (ideally granted to you by the leader of your alliance) is enough for me to accept it.

Necrelios

It seems like Necromancers should have a one hand fighting skill line as well, because in games like TESV: Skyrim where there were a lot of necromancers, they always had a dagger, for some reason. In ESO, daggers are kinda useless for any magicka build though, which is weird as it doesn't seem to fit the lore.