When will Maelstrom Arena reward accomplishement instead of luck? (100+ runs screenshot history)

InfaM

@ZOS_Finn @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

I'm really pissed by that situation but I'll try to be constructive and polite even if I have that feeling that I'm getting screwed by your RNG system everytime I run VMA.

I did more runs before that thread but I started taking screenshot and save weapons 100+ runs ago.

So, I'm trying to get my hand on a sharpened fire staff and on a sharpened 2h maul and 2h axe, I like round number so let's say that the following screenshots are what I got from my latest 100+ runs, and let's say that 1 run is about 1hour, so those screenshot are the "rewards" of 100+ hours of farm in what might be the most boring content in the game

! VMA DOESN'T REWARD YOUR SCORE !

I can do 10Millions score and be the #1 there's nothing that will guarantee me that I'll get the item that I want, while it's possible to do 1000 score and get the weapons that I want, score have no impact on arena rewards , so why bother with score ?


! VMA DOESN'T REWARD YOU FOR HOW MANY RUNS YOU DID OR HOW MANY TIME YOU SPENT COMPLETING IT !

I can complete it 500 time and there's still nothing that will guarantee me that I'll get the item that I want, while some can get it on their first run, not fair and makes no sense , so am I supposed to be motivated about the idea that it could turn into an endless farm if I'm not "lucky" enough ?

+20 runs



! VMA REWARDS LUCK AND ONLY LUCK !
(I don't have a screenshot to prove that one as I'm not lucky though...)
Those facts are more discouraging than motivating.


I sold all the useless jewelry/armor I had in the last chest so you can count that 46 times out of the 100+ I went to farm the "maelstrom" arena for it's only purpose (which is weapon) I ended up with a powerfull set of "maelstrom" jewelry/armor ? oh wait there's no such thing, only useless armor and jewelry.... anyway I just kept the weapons for the screenshot and as you might guess , NONE OF THESE F*** WEAPON IS ONE OF THOSE 3 I NEED.

Now let's be serious zenimax, I don't want to endlessly farm that *** hoping for your f***d up system to give me the weapon as a gift, I want to be rewarded for my accomplishement, I don't want to be lucky, I want to earn it (which should already be the case with the time I spent there) , I'm "farming" VMA, I'm not f**ng gambling it, so farm=reward and reward≠luck , get it ?

Implement a f**ng token system or anything that will reward the time/score spent there completing the arena.

Oh and I have a news for you, RUNNING VMA 100 TIMES FOR NO REWARDS IS NOT FUN ! There's nothing fun in spending an hour in that boring place full of long scripted spawn to end up with an unwanted reward, was probably fun the 10 first runs, then you realise that those 10 hours you just spent there for nothing could repeat endlessly and then it gets really boring.
Right now I don't even know how much more time I'll have to spend there to hope for the last chest to "gift" me the weapons I want, 200 more run/hours ? 400 more hours ? seriously, you just removed veteran rank because it was supposed to be a grind, what about vma rng then ? atleast there was an end to veteran rank... but there's no end when rolling the dice on such a stupid RNG system that is VMA weapon farming.

I'm tired of waiting for luck to get the weapons I'm farming for, the fact that I'm able complete the arena means nothing when I have to roll the dice hoping for RNG favor on the last chest.

@ZOS Read it carefully because it's like you just don't care about that issue since I'm not the first to post about it and you never replied to any of those thread, it's been like that for month but hey as you ignore all post about it you'll probably hear about this issue for the first time if you ever see that thread....

PS : I'll update this thread every 10 runs

leipatemeibbaa

LOL, I have been complaining this for months and ZOS hasn't done nothing yet. Everytime I open the ticket they keep telling me this is part of the game they designed.

But, seriously this is not fun. RNG stucks. I have done arena over 120 times and only dropped one weapon which is I need.
I have been gettting over dozens of healling staff and bows, but only 1 destruction flame staff, 1 ice, 1 lighting...

and currently I am not getting anything from the chest for the last three runs.....

sirrmattus

At least you got weapons

Took me 50hrs just to finish it 1 time

Dalsinthus

sirrmattus wrote: »

At least you got weapons

Exactly. 28 weapons and three shields out of 50 runs is solid. I have not seen a drop rate this high, even with the treasure hunter passive. I only landed 1 weapon in my first 6 runs. I've now run it 16 times and landed 6 weapons.

I wish I could run the thing in an hour. My best so far is still around 2.5.

But overall I agree with the OP - the drop rate system for vMA is incredibly frustrating.

Dalsinthus

Double post

psychotic13

So that's 31 maelstrom weapons out of 50 runs, that's good I thought? I see people saying they run it and don't even get the weapon they want let alone which trait?

But I do agree they should implement some sort of system. Like you said you wanted a sharpened fire staff, you should be able to 'cash in' say 3/4 fire staffs with any trait for the one you want. Then you still have to run it several times to acquire that but if the RNG isn't on your side you still have another option.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I wonder when people will realize that Precise is better than Sharpened on a Maelstrom inferno staff...

Also, it's 28 weapons not 31, the Sword and Board gets double counted. I will say that a 56% drop rate is better than what I am seeing. I am guessing mine is more like 25%. I seem to be seeded for Sword/Board and Resto staves. All I care about at this point is a Precise Dagger and a second Precise Inferno (being a little greedy on that one, I know).

Aleraon

They should take away the last chest and instead, when you talk to the guy at the end of it, you're allowed to choose a reward for your prowess and victory.

InfaM

And 10 more runs for nothing.

WalkingLegacy

OP tagging ZOS doesn't do anything. Gotta tag specific peeps

InfaM

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

OP tagging ZOS doesn't do anything. Gotta tag specific peeps

Yep already tried to tag them @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_TristanK on another thread about this , but they just don't give a *** about this issue.

mtwiggz

It is an issue. The BiS weapons in the game are behind a ridiculous RNG grind wall. Everything in this game is becoming more and more "grindy" every DLC. I don't mind some grinding as this is an MMO. But I know many players, including myself, who have spent a ridiculous amount of hours in vMA with literally nothing to show for it. The items you get won't even compensate you for the gold you spent on repairs and the like.

Next DLC they're adding in a 50% chance for a weapon drop on the final chest, but they are going to water down the loot table with even more traits, most of which are already useless. Made even more worthless with the complete trait overhaul we all worked to obtain.

dday3six

mtwiggz wrote: »

It is an issue. The BiS weapons in the game are behind a ridiculous RNG grind wall. Everything in this game is becoming more and more "grindy" every DLC. I don't mind some grinding as this is an MMO. But I know many players, including myself, who have spent a ridiculous amount of hours in vMA with literally nothing to show for it. The items you get won't even compensate you for the gold you spent on repairs and the like.

Next DLC they're adding in a 50% chance for a weapon drop on the final chest, but they are going to water down the loot table with even more traits, most of which are already useless. Made even more worthless with the complete trait overhaul we all worked to obtain.

Yep, ZOS has a terrible issue with substituting gear grind for content.

DRXHarbinger

You do realise op you're getting drops and the frequency of them alone most of us would kill for right? Seriously I've done maelstrom more times than most people even claim to and only ever gotten 1 inferno and 2 of each melee and 5 resto and 7 bows. You're even above the upcoming drop rate.

[Minor edit for bating]

Dalsinthus

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

You do realise op you're getting drops and the frequency of them alone most of us would kill for right? Seriously I've done maelstrom more times than most people even claim to and only ever gotten 1 inferno and 2 of each melee and 5 resto and 7 bows. Seriously stfu with that. You're even above the upcoming drop rate. Ungrateful or what.

I am also struggling to understand how the drop rate is so high here. 35 weapons out of 60 runs?

InfaM

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

You do realise op you're getting drops and the frequency of them alone most of us would kill for right? Seriously I've done maelstrom more times than most people even claim to and only ever gotten 1 inferno and 2 of each melee and 5 resto and 7 bows. Seriously stfu with that. You're even above the upcoming drop rate. Ungrateful or what.

As stated I "started" to take screenshots like 60 runs ago , I've done more than that before that I didn't took screenshot for, I can't believe that you've done anywhere close to even 100 runs with a total of 25 weapons found in the arena. Lets imagine that you're done around 100 runs ? 25 weapons for 100 runs , ok...

Anyway I could even have 200 weapons out of the last chest that the problem would be the same , it's still time wasted for nothing if I didn't get the weapons with the traits that I'm aiming for , in the end I still use no maelstrom weapon.

So if you to feel grateful, that's you problem but don't come here tell me that it's a good thing and that I should be happy to deal with a [Snip] up RNG mechanic because after more than 100 "real" runs you'd probably understand that the point is to have what we are farming for and not a collection of useless maelstrom weapons.

Now enjoy your 25 maelstrom weapons with defending traits if dropping a maelstrom weapons is what matters the most when you farm there , 25 or 200 useless weapons is still useless as we don't use it , but well.

There's people that did more runs than me and that ended up with more weapons than me, I don't feel like they're lucky and don't think they are ungrateful when they also say that the rng there sucks.

In the end the rng is so bad and I'm "even above the upcoming drop rate" that your 26th weapons will probably the one you desire while my "luck" will lead me to post screenshot on my 200th run with no desired weapon...

[Edited to remove flaming]

khele23eb17_ESO

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

You do realise op you're getting drops and the frequency of them alone most of us would kill for right? Seriously I've done maelstrom more times than most people even claim to and only ever gotten 1 inferno and 2 of each melee and 5 resto and 7 bows. Seriously stfu with that. You're even above the upcoming drop rate. Ungrateful or what.

Are you insane? Instead of agreeing with the guy that the RNG loot system is crap (and it is) you attack him and dismiss what hes saying because hes luckier than you? If anything it should make you agree with him more, not less as it shows how inherently unfair the results of this system are. Also keep in mind that even if you were as lucky as he is, youd still not have what you want and youd still be forced to grind for a weapon with a trait that is not useless.

This layered RNG bull**** (getting the right weapon requires winning a lottery of 3 rng checks: to get a weapon at all, to get the weapon you need and then to get the trait that you want on that weapon) needs to be capped. Either by a token system or a trade in system.

PurifedBladez

Everytime I start to play vma I get really bored like a few rounds in. I feel like I could complete it but, I hate the *** out of it. It really is boring.

Artis

If it's not fun - don't run it. Problem solved. You're welcome.

What do you run it for? For weapons? Why do you need them? Especially BiS? You only need them in vMA (which you don't like running anyway) and perhaps in vMOL. But why would you run vMOL? Probably won't drop loot often too and sets there are not that great anyway. Why would you play what you don't find fun? Do you just want to have BiS gear just to have it? I'm not saying it's bad or anything, just trying to understand.

Flak

Couldn't agree more with the OP, the Loot System is the biggest issue for me in this game (I'm notoriously unlucky with drops). This needs to be changed, as he said it's not a reward anymore. There's gotta be a goal to work for that can be achieved in a limited number of runs. This is not only a problem in vMA but also in the IC Dungeons and vMoL.

khele23eb17_ESO

Artis wrote: »

If it's not fun - don't run it. Problem solved. You're welcome.

What do you run it for? For weapons? Why do you need them? Especially BiS? You only need them in vMA (which you don't like running anyway) and perhaps in vMOL. But why would you run vMOL? Probably won't drop loot often too and sets there are not that great anyway. Why would you play what you don't find fun? Do you just want to have BiS gear just to have it? I'm not saying it's bad or anything, just trying to understand.

Yes. People repeat content to advance their characters and get BiS gear. You just solved the great mystery of people playing endgame MMO content repeatedly for months despite it becoming a chore after the first 10-15 successful runs (theres lots of fun in learning to master content before that tho, if its actually challenging, and the emotional payoff of first kills can be tremendous). Youd see how quickly vMA would become abandoned by players if the only reward was an achievement for completion.

hamburgerler76

still cant beat it

Artis

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

If it's not fun - don't run it. Problem solved. You're welcome.

What do you run it for? For weapons? Why do you need them? Especially BiS? You only need them in vMA (which you don't like running anyway) and perhaps in vMOL. But why would you run vMOL? Probably won't drop loot often too and sets there are not that great anyway. Why would you play what you don't find fun? Do you just want to have BiS gear just to have it? I'm not saying it's bad or anything, just trying to understand.

Yes. People repeat content to advance their characters and get BiS gear. You just solved the great mystery of people playing endgame MMO content repeatedly for months despite it becoming a chore after the first 10-15 successful runs (theres lots of fun in learning to master content before that tho, if its actually challenging, and the emotional payoff of first kills can be tremendous). Youd see how quickly vMA would become abandoned by players if the only reward was an achievement for completion.

Lol what? ANd then what? Once they get all the gear they quit the game? Then why make it so that they can get it faster? Oh it would be abandoned you say? Then it's a good thing the drop rates are low, if players are in dungeons only for gear. Idk, that's too much of a hassle to buy an account and pay sub/buy DLC just so that you can collect some pixels (gear). I thought people play for fun.

InfaM

Artis wrote: »

If it's not fun - don't run it. Problem solved. You're welcome.
What do you run it for? For weapons? Why do you need them? Especially BiS? You only need them in vMA (which you don't like running anyway) and perhaps in vMOL. But why would you run vMOL? Probably won't drop loot often too and sets there are not that great anyway. Why would you play what you don't find fun? Do you just want to have BiS gear just to have it? I'm not saying it's bad or anything, just trying to understand.

I need those weapons to optimize my PVE char and my PVP char , as simple as that.

Artis wrote: »

Lol what? ANd then what? Once they get all the gear they quit the game? Then why make it so that they can get it faster? Oh it would be abandoned you say? Then it's a good thing the drop rates are low, if players are in dungeons only for gear. Idk, that's too much of a hassle to buy an account and pay sub/buy DLC just so that you can collect some pixels (gear). I thought people play for fun.

First of all it's not "All the gear" it's 1 item, hence why it's getting boring to run a place 200 time for 1 item and never be rewarded, and when we get that only item we then finally enjoy every other aspect of the game with the optimized character we're aiming for instead of being stuck in farming that never ending , never rewarding place that is VMA.

Artis wrote: »

Then why make it so that they can get it faster?

Because it's not sane to have to run a place more than 200 times and not be guaranteed to have the items we're trying to get, I don't feel like spending 200+ hours in a place and ending up with the same character and no upgrade is fun at all , now I'm stubborn and like I said before I'll probably farm it until I get my weapon or until I'm so pissed that I quit the game, because I don't see the point of doing something else than getting the last upgrade on my characters before stepping back in PVP or in PVE.

Artis wrote: »

Then it's a good thing the drop rates are low, if players are in dungeons only for gear. Idk, that's too much of a hassle to buy an account and pay sub/buy DLC just so that you can collect some pixels (gear). I thought people play for fun.

I need the weapon and the fun is gone since I did it so many time with no reward that it turned the fun into boredom because I know that my effort are not rewarded, it's all about luck and it doesn't feel right at all.
Right now I still need the weapon, so following your logic I should forget all the time I spent there, remember that the 10 first runs were fun, and give up on getting that weapon because it's boring, so it would be 100+ hours of farming wasted to end up with the memory of 10 fun run. It's not a good logic to me, I came here for the weapon, I did the effort to run that place 100+ time for the weapon and I can't find a solid reason for me ending up with no weapon.

I'll use the same logic about your thread "Is there any way we can complain on moderators and/or get any explanation to their actions?", it's like me saying, if you don't like forum, then don't use it, I thought people were using forum for fun and discussions about the game, if you don't like what moderators are doing on forum then don't use it and don't create thread about it.

It doesn't work like that and you know it.

khele23eb17_ESO

Artis wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

If it's not fun - don't run it. Problem solved. You're welcome.

What do you run it for? For weapons? Why do you need them? Especially BiS? You only need them in vMA (which you don't like running anyway) and perhaps in vMOL. But why would you run vMOL? Probably won't drop loot often too and sets there are not that great anyway. Why would you play what you don't find fun? Do you just want to have BiS gear just to have it? I'm not saying it's bad or anything, just trying to understand.

Yes. People repeat content to advance their characters and get BiS gear. You just solved the great mystery of people playing endgame MMO content repeatedly for months despite it becoming a chore after the first 10-15 successful runs (theres lots of fun in learning to master content before that tho, if its actually challenging, and the emotional payoff of first kills can be tremendous). Youd see how quickly vMA would become abandoned by players if the only reward was an achievement for completion.

Lol what? ANd then what? Once they get all the gear they quit the game? Then why make it so that they can get it faster?

Theres a difference between someone taking a break until new content is released or starting to level an alt and someone rage quitting after the rng screws him over for the 100th time. That second person is not coming back. And hes telling everyone he knows to stay away from the game.

Oh it would be abandoned you say? Then it's a good thing the drop rates are low, if players are in dungeons only for gear. Idk, that's too much of a hassle to buy an account and pay sub/buy DLC just so that you can collect some pixels (gear). I thought people play for fun.

Some people play football because they enjoy being fit. Some play football because they like the spirit of camaraderie and teamwork. Some play because they like scoring goals. Some play because they like their team advance in their league. All of them have fun playing football. Same principle applies here. There are multiple sources of fun in MMOs but character advancement has invariably been a key element of it since... ever.

Artis

LOL

But you don't need that item. You just want it. And it's your problem. It's been written about and solved long time ago by Buddha

The root of suffering is desire. To get rid of suffering you need to get rid of desire. Understand that you don't need that 1 item and stop expecting it. Then vma runs won't be as frustrating for you. Go there if it's fun only.

But seriously, answer the question please. What will you do when you get absolutely all gear. Every BiS piece.

Good analogy with the football - camraderie etc. Cheers

p.s. dont' compare my thread to this. I didn't ask to change anything. I asked IF there were any ways to do that. Because I still didn't figure out all the options that I have here. I just rarely noticed there's a star that you can click and subscribe to a thread lol.

lathbury

same thing i was saying here https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/263463/the-second-biggest-thing-harming-player-retention#latest I listed some solutions none of them will be implemented

InfaM

Artis wrote: »

LOL

But you don't need that item. You just want it. And it's your problem. It's been written about and solved long time ago by Buddha

The root of suffering is desire. To get rid of suffering you need to get rid of desire. Understand that you don't need that 1 item and stop expecting it. Then vma runs won't be as frustrating for you. Go there if it's fun only.

But seriously, answer the question please. What will you do when you get absolutely all gear. Every BiS piece.

Good analogy with the football - camraderie etc. Cheers

p.s. dont' compare my thread to this. I didn't ask to change anything. I asked IF there were any ways to do that. Because I still didn't figure out all the options that I have here. I just rarely noticed there's a star that you can click and subscribe to a thread lol.

From an optimization point of view I NEED it, so that's why I want it, because my goal is to have the best items I can get to be most effective in the contents I'm aiming for. Pretty common in MMO.
I already answered that question but you missed it.

Artis wrote: »

And if they fail to do so - how can we know which moderator exactly did this so we can point at other topics/posts they didn't touch or at the forum rules to show that they didn't do a great job... and how can we complain on them and their abuse of authority sometimes?

In fact your topic is a good example to compare to mine, you want to complain about moderators abusing their authority , for the purpose of having them CHANGING the way they manage some thread/post, I complain about vma RNG being bad so they can take a look at it and CHANGE the RNG mechanic there to something that reward effort and not luck.
I don't want to wait for buddha to gift me the weapons, while a better vma system would allow me to get the weapon as a reward for my effort.

I know it's hard for you to understand other people point of view as you're not concerned by vma rng and you probably didn't spent any time farming there yet or you been pretty lucky and had your weapon on a few runs, but buddha would tell you to be less self-centered and to take a look at the real problem that a lot of people are complaining about "the vma rng" and not to try to train your psychologist skills on a forum over people trying to point out that obvious vma issue

Because that solution is only valid for someone that never went to farm maelstorm at all "If it's not fun - don't run it. Problem solved. You're welcome."

lathbury

look on the bright side by the time we get the gear we want a new set will make it obsolete and we will have to buy a new dlc to do 200 runs in that.

InfaM

lathbury wrote: »

look on the bright side by the time we get the gear we want a new set will make it obsolete and we will have to buy a new dlc to do 200 runs in that.

I'm sure a ZOS employee with some lack of inspiration will come to that thread and only notice that one post.

lathbury

InfaM wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

look on the bright side by the time we get the gear we want a new set will make it obsolete and we will have to buy a new dlc to do 200 runs in that.

I'm sure a ZOS employee with some lack of inspiration will come to that thread and only notice that one post.

like that isn't already the business model. the tin foil hat side of my brain thinks gm's put this gear on streamers accounts so that they demo it etc and we like muppets try and obtain it. #divines scathing gloves are a lie