Proof That Veteran Maelstrom Arena NEEDS Rebalancing/Tweaking

Ch4mpTW

Attached below are a series of screen shots taken of some of the numerous things taking place in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. If you think that there doesn't need to be any nerfing or rebalancing, I highly advise you put yourself in other people's shoes who have less: CP, time, etc. than you have to do this. So no. It's not a matter of entitlement. It's a matter of flat out selfishness, and wanting to be the 5%. It's a thought process of "screw everyone who can't do it, I have mines. That's what matters." And that's a very toxic mentality to have on a MMO. A very toxic mentality. Okay, so because 5% of the overall game population can spend hours on end farming this dungeon, and has the patience to do it over and over again, screw the other 95%? N'ah. That's not right.

And while I do believe there should be some challenging aspects of this game, VMA isn't challenging in a "proper sense". No. It's challenging as in "artificial difficulty". Stupid things like one-shots, and getting hit even though you're outside of the red circles. Those things don't provide real challenges. No. Making something into a DPS race, while throwing ads upon ads isn't challenging. It's laziness.

And before it's asked, yes. I have completed VMA before. I just figured for whatever the reason I'd give it a shot again, to see if I had the patience to farm weapons pre-DB. And my answer to that question? NOPE! I do NOT have the patience to sit through this bug-infested cesspool of: Glitching, lag, and one-shots. Absolutely not! Hell no! I am a HUGE Bloodbourne and Dark Souls fan, and play them regularly. I also go back and play other "challenging" games such as: Contra, Double Dragon, Ghouls n' Ghosts, and even the classic Mega Man games (recently got the Anniversary Collection on PS4 and picked-up a ton more for 3DS).

To those who think Normal Maelstrom Arena is challenging, you have literally no idea what you're up against for veteran version. Forget it being on the same boat or ocean. No, they're not even in the same galaxy as one another. They're dimensions apart from each other. As some have said on other threads, there's: Normal mode, veteran mode, then elite/nightmare mode. Veteran Maelstrom Arena would be elite/nightmare difficulty. Seriously. So before you go off wasting tons of gold in repairs, and or waste your time. Keep in mind that you've been warned. Oh! And you may not even get a weapon after enduring the bs. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.

Enjoy the pics below. (Note: These pictures were taken via PlayStation 4 on the NA server). I also have numerous other pictures, but figured these will suffice. If more is requested, I will happily show them. Or, take videos of some of the stuff occurring (e.g. Crematorial Guard one-shotting for 40k+ and many more).

DDemon

Most of the things displayed in the screenshots are DOTs, hence the high numbers, it does ot all happen at once. The rest are, for as far I can see, the result of a boss enraging, which means you didn't follow mechanics, or didn't do them quick enough.

Maelstrom as it is does not need any nerfing, the only issue I have with it, is the RNG on the end chest which annoys me to no end. With enough practice, maelstrom is really easy to run and you will avoid the high incoming damage most of the time.

Praeficere

1st: You let her enrage, clear the pillars of webs with the hoavors.

2nd: Break free his knockdown and you don't get bleed

3rd: Kill the Sorcs asap, you can start damaging them under the shield.

4th - 6th, you need to position better.

All of the one shots are easily avoidable if you learn vMA. You've done it once, doesn't mean you know it.

lassitershawn

First picture means the mechanic was utterly and completely ignored.

Argonian dude is definitely harder on melee/stamina builds, but one of those pictures is a DoT. The others ARE avoidable but again, definitely challenging in melee range.

Impending storm from the wamasu is completely avoidable.

Edit: Impending storm is the move from the wamasu that shoots the red circles correct? If I'm wrong forgive me, I haven't been in vMA in a while and its been even longer since I died to the wamasu.

Haquor

Praeficere wrote: »

All of the one shots are easily avoidable if you learn vMA. You've done it once, doesn't mean you know it.

I second this. Even 5 to 10 clears into vmsa i was asking friends/guilds about certain one shot mechanics that i was inadvertently avoiding and getting tips on other mechanics that i was either getting lucky with or healing through.

Now i farm it on 8 v16s a week. With a 300 ping in aus.

It is frustrating and unforgiving but is 100% easier when you are confident with the mechanics and are built correctly.

Your example screenshots show you need a better understanding i think.

But man i feel you its incredibly painful to learn and get comfortable with. That is what the problem is with it. People are so used to this game being a cakewalk that they run into this dungeon takes them a couple of weeks on and off to get down and its a shock.

Most people want thier stuff quicker than that and dont have the patience to learn and perform with skill in a challenging solo environment so they want it nerfed.

The only 2 things i would like to see changed are the daedroth firebreath damage in stage 9 and the loot/reward system.

Edit: And the random pod spawn in stage 7

Gilliamtherogue

Seems like you're taking damage from the Hulk after he's enraging, which means any damage he's dealing is going to be enrage damage and one shot you. It's a stupid bug that hasn't been fixed, and there's not much you can do about it except keep your distance when the mages spawn. Allow any previous applied bleeds to dissipate and then kill a mage, avoid his green poison circle during his enrage, as well as his ground rubble that he shoots out in random directions. While enraged, any of these will kill you regardless of mitigation, with the exception of Magma Shell.

lassitershawn

Haquor wrote: »

Praeficere wrote: »

All of the one shots are easily avoidable if you learn vMA. You've done it once, doesn't mean you know it.

I second this. Even 5 to 10 clears into vmsa i was asking friends/guilds about certain one shot mechanics that i was inadvertently avoiding and getting tips on other mechanics that i was either getting lucky with or healing through.

Now i farm it on 8 v16s a week. With a 300 ping in aus.

It is frustrating and unforgiving but is 100% easier when you are confident with the mechanics and are built correctly.

Your example screenshots show you need a better understanding i think.

But man i feel you its incredibly painful to learn and get comfortable with. That is what the problem is with it. People are so used to this game being a cakewalk that they run into this dungeon takes them a couple of weeks on and off to get down and its a shock.

Most people want thier stuff quicker than that and dont have the patience to learn and perform with skill in a challenging solo environment so they want it nerfed.

The only 2 things i would like to see changed are the daedroth firebreath damage in stage 9 and the loot/reward system.

Edit: And the random pod spawn in stage 7

Agree with almost all of this.

dday3six

Bugs with round 7 aside my main complaint about MSA is lag. That gets me killed more than anything.

Ch4mpTW

Praeficere wrote: »

1st: You let her enrage which is very hard to do, clear the pillars of webs with the hoavors.

2nd: Break free his knockdown and you don't get bleed

3rd: Kill the Sorcs asap, you can start damaging them under the shield.

4th - 6th, you need to position better.

All of the one shots are easily avoidable if you learn vMA. You've done it once, doesn't mean you know it.

My positioning can only be but so good on a stamina Dragonknight. Seriously. I'm doing all I can. ._. And I'm making sure to follow the mechanics incredibly accurately. I don't waste any time at all.

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Seems like you're taking damage from the Hulk after he's enraging, which means any damage he's dealing is going to be enrage damage and one shot you. It's a stupid bug that hasn't been fixed, and there's not much you can do about it except keep your distance when the mages spawn. Allow any previous applied bleeds to dissipate and then kill a mage, avoid his green poison circle during his enrage, as well as his ground rubble that he shoots out in random directions. While enraged, any of these will kill you regardless of mitigation, with the exception of Magma Shell.

This may be exactly what's going on. Because honestly, I'm following the mechanics down to a tee. I really am. I'm doing everything how I should, and keeping a close eye on everything happening around me. But, it seems like a lot of this being nothin' I can do.

Vaoh

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Attached below are a series of screen shots taken of some of the numerous things taking place in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. If you think that there doesn't need to be any nerfing or rebalancing, I highly advise you put yourself in other people's shoes who have less: CP, time, etc. than you have to do this. So no. It's not a matter of entitlement. It's a matter of flat out selfishness, and wanting to be the 5%. It's a thought process of "screw everyone who can't do it, I have mines. That's what matters." And that's a very toxic mentality to have on a MMO. A very toxic mentality. Okay, so because 5% of the overall game population can spend hours on end farming this dungeon, and has the patience to do it over and over again, screw the other 95%? N'ah. That's not right.

And while I do believe there should be some challenging aspects of this game, VMA isn't challenging in a "proper sense". No. It's challenging as in "artificial difficulty". Stupid things like one-shots, and getting hit even though you're outside of the red circles. Those things don't provide real challenges. No. Making something into a DPS race, while throwing ads upon ads isn't challenging. It's laziness.

And before it's asked, yes. I have completed VMA before. I just figured for whatever the reason I'd give it a shot again, to see if I had the patience to farm weapons pre-DB. And my answer to that question? NOPE! I do NOT have the patience to sit through this bug-infested cesspool of: Glitching, lag, and one-shots. Absolutely not! Hell no! I am a HUGE Bloodbourne and Dark Souls fan, and play them regularly. I also go back and play other "challenging" games such as: Contra, Double Dragon, Ghouls n' Ghosts, and even the classic Mega Man games (recently got the Anniversary Collection on PS4 and picked-up a ton more for 3DS).

To those who think Normal Maelstrom Arena is challenging, you have literally no idea what you're up against for veteran version. Forget it being on the same boat or ocean. No, they're not even in the same galaxy as one another. They're dimensions apart from each other. As some have said on other threads, there's: Normal mode, veteran mode, then elite/nightmare mode. Veteran Maelstrom Arena would be elite/nightmare difficulty. Seriously. So before you go off wasting tons of gold in repairs, and or waste your time. Keep in mind that you've been warned. Oh! And you may not even get a weapon after enduring the bs. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.

Enjoy the pics below. (Note: These pictures were taken via PlayStation 4 on the NA server). I also have numerous other pictures, but figured these will suffice. If more is requested, I will happily show them. Or, take videos of some of the stuff occurring (e.g. Crematorial Guard one-shotting for 40k+ and many more).

I'm sorry, but in these screenshots you simply died as normal, which can and should happen when doing the toughest content in the game. This is the reason there is a normal mode and a rare title for not getting a single death on Vet!

In some of these screenshots you completely ignored key mechanics, which you need to learn, just like every Vet dungeon has them.

It is a very difficult arena, no doubt. It is also the ONLY piece of content left that doesn't become a joke if you have full V16 Purple-Gold gear with 300+ CPs. This is the pinnacle of difficulty for those who have a strong enough character and will to learn its mechanics. There's only one piece of content in the game that is challenging for those who have all of the best gear, don't nerf it.

Another thing. With almost every boss in the game, you can just DPS or Heal your way past every mechanic and never worry. In vMA, you actually must put forth effort into learning how to run the mechanics. You can't just stand in one spot and spam a few skills to win.

FriedEggSandwich

The only thing I would have nerfed is the amount of rng. Like when both Argonian Minders in the Vault of Umbrage decide to stand on those poison bulbs on the ground, so whichever one you choose to kill you are still gonna die when you go stand next to the other. In my opinion every run should be completable without death, but thanks to rng this isn't the case. The rng combined with lag and bugs (like when you're snared by a blue ghost on the final round you simply can't cast liquid lightening) mean that only a fraction of rounds are completable with no death, whether you do everything perfectly or not.

nordsavage

While I do believe some rebalancing or mechanics clean up is in order I think you chose bad examples. Most of what you shown can be moved out of easily and you do not seem to know that you can use the casters shield to hide from the Argonian Behemoth while he expends his rage returning to his normal damage scale.

Darth_Trumpious

There's no point to "reblance" MSA if you don't follow the mechanism.

Vaoh

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

The only thing I would have nerfed is the amount of rng. Like when both Argonian Minders in the Vault of Umbrage decide to stand on those poison bulbs on the ground, so whichever one you choose to kill you are still gonna die when you go stand next to the other. In my opinion every run should be completable without death, but thanks to rng this isn't the case. The rng combined with lag and bugs (like when you're snared by a blue ghost on the final round you simply can't cast liquid lightening) mean that only a fraction of rounds are completable with no death, whether you do everything perfectly or not.

Now that you mention it, there are a couple RNG-related things which could get reworked.

Poison Bulbs should not inflict their Poison DoT on you while you stand in an Argonian Minder's protection field. I'd be fine with the poison DoT being purgeable tbh as well, but that's just me.

There are more, but I can't think them up right now.

Remember when those plants in Round 3 had that buggy pull ability! That was horrible, but got fixed. Hopefully this will too.

LadyNalcarya

Proof that OP doesnt know how vMA mechanics (and death recaps) work.
I mean, yeah, it is buggy and not very balanced, but ignoring the mechanic and posting it as proof? Seriously?
Its like if I would spam "Well, what is it" emote to Kalameet's face and then started to QQ when he roasted me.

greylox

It's an unenjoyable chore of the highest order, with rubbish rng on top. Just forget about it, I have.

DRXHarbinger

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Praeficere wrote: »

1st: You let her enrage which is very hard to do, clear the pillars of webs with the hoavors.

2nd: Break free his knockdown and you don't get bleed

3rd: Kill the Sorcs asap, you can start damaging them under the shield.

4th - 6th, you need to position better.

All of the one shots are easily avoidable if you learn vMA. You've done it once, doesn't mean you know it.

My positioning can only be but so good on a stamina Dragonknight. Seriously. I'm doing all I can. ._. And I'm making sure to follow the mechanics incredibly accurately. I don't waste any time at all.

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Seems like you're taking damage from the Hulk after he's enraging, which means any damage he's dealing is going to be enrage damage and one shot you. It's a stupid bug that hasn't been fixed, and there's not much you can do about it except keep your distance when the mages spawn. Allow any previous applied bleeds to dissipate and then kill a mage, avoid his green poison circle during his enrage, as well as his ground rubble that he shoots out in random directions. While enraged, any of these will kill you regardless of mitigation, with the exception of Magma Shell.

This may be exactly what's going on. Because honestly, I'm following the mechanics down to a tee. I really am. I'm doing everything how I should, and keeping a close eye on everything happening around me. But, it seems like a lot of this being nothin' I can do.

You're interrupting the argonian. You cannot interrupt it otherwise every hit will kill you. Even corrosive armor cannot sponge it. Just get under a shield and hit the minder to 50% health so it doesn't jump you straight away and them put some dots on the boss. Complete opposite of normal mechanics. The spider you're just taking too long. Tip just leave 1 pillar covered up from the start and police the spiders from stage 1, much easier than trying to free several on the boss round. The champion also has very high spell resistance but low physical, evil hunter works quite well on that round.

Asmael

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Praeficere wrote: »

1st: You let her enrage which is very hard to do, clear the pillars of webs with the hoavors.

2nd: Break free his knockdown and you don't get bleed

3rd: Kill the Sorcs asap, you can start damaging them under the shield.

4th - 6th, you need to position better.

All of the one shots are easily avoidable if you learn vMA. You've done it once, doesn't mean you know it.

My positioning can only be but so good on a stamina Dragonknight. Seriously. I'm doing all I can. ._. And I'm making sure to follow the mechanics incredibly accurately. I don't waste any time at all.

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Seems like you're taking damage from the Hulk after he's enraging, which means any damage he's dealing is going to be enrage damage and one shot you. It's a stupid bug that hasn't been fixed, and there's not much you can do about it except keep your distance when the mages spawn. Allow any previous applied bleeds to dissipate and then kill a mage, avoid his green poison circle during his enrage, as well as his ground rubble that he shoots out in random directions. While enraged, any of these will kill you regardless of mitigation, with the exception of Magma Shell.

This may be exactly what's going on. Because honestly, I'm following the mechanics down to a tee. I really am. I'm doing everything how I should, and keeping a close eye on everything happening around me. But, it seems like a lot of this being nothin' I can do.

You'd be surprised to know that you don't know all that much, even if you already completed vMA once.

I didn't remember that the clannfear on stage 9 needed to die on the portals (it was mostly an accident when he died there).
I didnt know that a simple attack on one of the hoarvor in stage 6 will be enough to pull them to you, so that you can easily kill them on top of an obelisk.
I didn't know that breaking free while the behemoth does his bite attack will prevent the DoT from happening.
I didn't know that the defense sigil could reflect the necrotic swarm of the stage 9 boss.

I managed to do it on my first run on my stam DK, and wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it'd be. Except for the very last boss, which is one ugly f****** for stamina builds, since stamina builds rely on mobility, which gets screwed over by crem. guards, necrotic shards (just like Nerieneth procs) and the soul churn's constant damage.

Bofrari

Yeah sorry to bust your bubble but this a complete L2P issue period you cannot ignore mechanics and expect to succeed even if they do nerf it if you keep doing this your still going to get pwned. All you need to do is figure out the mechanics and use them.

InfaM

Haquor wrote: »

The only 2 things i would like to see changed is the daedroth firebreath damage in stage 9 and the loot/reward system.

This