Official Discussion Thread for "What Veteran Rank Removal Means for your Character"

Elder_III

prax07 wrote: »

So if I can't possibly reach vr16 before the change happens my character is always going to have less cp points than every other player that did reach vr16? Referring tyo the bonus cp points vr16's will be getting. What's the point in continuing to play if I'll always be gimped? If my friend eventually buys the game his characters will also be weaker than everyone elses because of those bonus cp points? Might as well tell him to not buy the game then.

You get your first 40 CP so fast that it's a complete non issue. You can get them in a few days of casual play, so no biggie to worry about.

Sounomi

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

So for the first 3 silver zones I would only be earning 30% xp? Can I slot fewer champion points g of get xp? For the most part I enjoy the quest story lines, but only getting 30% of already low xp sounds painful.

That only applies to mobs you kill. Quests will always give the same amount of experience regardless of level or CP. Since most of your experience comes from quests, its not something to worry too much about.

Pyr0xyrecuprotite

I've been capped at 501cp for a while, and with premium randoms etc. it is fairly easy to get at least one CP per day. It seems like there is a fairly big range available for increasing both the max CP level AND the useable CP cap. So, looking ahead a bit, I am interested in finding out:

1. are there any plans yet for how (and how much) the CP max level (current cp160 with DB) is going to be raised in a future DLC update? For example, the new DB cp ranks (vr1=cp10 etc) could just be scaled up, e.g. by a factor of 2, (i.e. vr1=cp20, vr16 = cp320). OR, more new CP ranks could be added (cp170, cp180...), kinda like when the level cap was raised from vr14 to vr16. Or some combination of this. My concern with just adding new ranks at 10cp each is that it will take a LONG, LONG time to reach even the current cp cap of 501, never mind when the cp cap is increased...

2. What happens to our current max rank (vr16) gear, converted to cp160 in the DB DLC update, when new max cp ranks are available? Does our current max level gear scale up to the new cp max rank, or is it now obsolete (like vr14 gear when vr16 became the new max level)? Do we need to craft/find/buy and improve a new rank of gear again (for each alt, since this will affect all of our L50 alts at the same time)?

ShedsHisTail

I think some of you folks who are worried about not getting enough CP are putting a little too much value on champion points.
40 CP isn't -that- much of an advantage, at best it's helping you unlock a passive buff or two.

Honestly, if it were me making this change, I'd have just set the max level to 66, and then given everyone 10 CP for each level after level 1. Make it so you gain CP incrementally all the way up, not after you reach level 50. But, it is what it is.

NewBlacksmurf

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

I don't really have any problems with the conversion other than that "CP160" seems like a convoluted way to say "Level 66."

@ShedsHisTail I believe once you look at it, it's not anything like being level 66

It's like having VR shared account wide is all

NBrookus

prax07 wrote: »

So if I can't possibly reach vr16 before the change happens my character is always going to have less cp points than every other player that did reach vr16? Referring tyo the bonus cp points vr16's will be getting. What's the point in continuing to play if I'll always be gimped? If my friend eventually buys the game his characters will also be weaker than everyone elses because of those bonus cp points? Might as well tell him to not buy the game then.

@prax07 There is a catch-up mechanic. The less CP you have, the faster you earn them. You do still have to earn them, but you'll be gaining CP way faster than people at or near level cap. Even at level cap, they accrue pretty fast.

James-Wayne

Pyr0xyrecuprotite wrote: »

1. are there any plans yet for how (and how much) the CP max level (current cp160 with DB) is going to be raised in a future DLC update? For example, the new DB cp ranks (vr1=cp10 etc) could just be scaled up, e.g. by a factor of 2, (i.e. vr1=cp20, vr16 = cp320). OR, more new CP ranks could be added (cp170, cp180...), kinda like when the level cap was raised from vr14 to vr16. Or some combination of this. My concern with just adding new ranks at 10cp each is that it will take a LONG, LONG time to reach even the current cp cap of 501, never mind when the cp cap is increased...

I believe new DLC gear will offer a number of different CP levels depending on hows its obtained. Ie mob kills get you 180cp but boss veteran kills get you 240cp

Still early days but we should find out after mid year rolls around I guess.

prax07

NBrookus wrote: »

prax07 wrote: »

So if I can't possibly reach vr16 before the change happens my character is always going to have less cp points than every other player that did reach vr16? Referring tyo the bonus cp points vr16's will be getting. What's the point in continuing to play if I'll always be gimped? If my friend eventually buys the game his characters will also be weaker than everyone elses because of those bonus cp points? Might as well tell him to not buy the game then.

@prax07 There is a catch-up mechanic. The less CP you have, the faster you earn them. You do still have to earn them, but you'll be gaining CP way faster than people at or near level cap. Even at level cap, they accrue pretty fast.

That's not the way I've been understanding it. The more cp you have the more each additional one costs more and more in xp right? So to grind away at that extra additional 40 cp gift on top of grinding out the rest of the cp to be on equal footing with every other vr16 player seems to me that it could take quite a lot of time to grind out. That could be months of grinding for someone who doesn't or can't power level for hours. I read somewhere that the higher cp points cost something like 400k xp each to earn, having to grind out that or more xp 40 additional times seems like an insane amount of xp to grind just to be equal to everyone else.

myrrrorb14_ESO

Sounomi wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

So for the first 3 silver zones I would only be earning 30% xp? Can I slot fewer champion points g of get xp? For the most part I enjoy the quest story lines, but only getting 30% of already low xp sounds painful.

That only applies to mobs you kill. Quests will always give the same amount of experience regardless of level or CP. Since most of your experience comes from quests, its not something to worry too much about.

I appreciate the gesture and I guess quest xp is better than nothing.

I have been getting about 900xp for killing 2 mobs in the 1st silver zone (non starter) . So it really is quite a bit of xp. Non main quests give 11k-17k. Can't remember main 30k ish. Seems a shame to lose out on so much xp.

Guess I don't need it though. No vet ranks to crawl through.

FatKidHatchets

Said it before, say it again. They replaced VR with CP. Thats pretty much it. VR1 is CP 10 VR2 is CP 20. They added a zero and some how this confuses people.

NewBlacksmurf

FatKidHatchets wrote: »

Said it before, say it again. They replaced VR with CP. Thats pretty much it. VR1 is CP 10 VR2 is CP 20. They added a zero and some how this confuses people.

Yep. Complete waste of 2 years on ZOS' part and it comes off as misleading. "We are removing VR" then the article "Converting your VR character to CP"

Elsonso

FatKidHatchets wrote: »

Said it before, say it again. They replaced VR with CP. Thats pretty much it. VR1 is CP 10 VR2 is CP 20. They added a zero and some how this confuses people.

I used to be able to count by Veteran Ranks on my fingers and toes. Now, I don't know what I will do. I need 10 times the fingers and toes.

NewBlacksmurf

@ZOS_GinaBruno and @Wrobel

The thing that's sad about this is that somehow ZOS believes that the VR system was understood and straight forward.
Sure ppl all understand1,2,3,4....16
Ppl also understood zone 1-->vr1, zone 2--->vr2.

What needed to be removed that was left behind was:
-1. silver and gold zones being in front of Craglorn but neither being scaled like DLC.
This was the time to go back, and remove VR so that Craglorn, Silver and gold zones all scale just like the DLC which seemingly the scale method is drastically preferred over the static post game tiering that VR caused. Now we are left with the same barren zones and what will become a farm feat in each gold zone in certain spots.

-2. Crafting material progression started out in a greater than 10 level range for use but in order to add more skill Passives it was a 10 level tier. This still is awkward. Mat 1 should range levels 1-10. Mat 2 should range level 11-20, etc for all crafting.
Any excess mats would need to end up in whatever post 50 system they will use. So for now 50 should stop it all.

I have differing ideas on all existing mats if they all are to stay in the game but to me it makes better logic to remove anything above what would be considered as level 66 (or 70 in an every10 level tier
And re-introduce them later in the seasonal ideas yet to be detailed by ZOS)

-3. Gear restrictions and gear drops. Plain and simple, these should align in the same 10 level tiering as mentioned above based on NPC levels for drops and the skill line to equip. Yes this means that if we are going to actually use CP (which again I think is a bad idea) you have to add on to the post 50 skill line and start representing the cp range for future gear equip requirements and that would also apply to NPC level drops. But using CP like this isn't removing VR.

-4. Player seperation. I think this was the big idea of it all. The success of the scaling idea that brought many of us together in scaled content was a good start. It definately needed a lot of balancing but it was the right direction. Now, we have no detail on if scaling will continue in a CP consideration because it seems as tho ZOS is leaving the skill and stat points from the VR to fall within the 1-50 but we can't test if this makes sense on PTS cause it hasn't been rolled out yet.

Also....unless you're giving temporary CP constellation boosts and adding 10 points to certain CP Passives already selected by each character, as well as boasting gear and weapons, you're not scaling ppl so ......again, CP is best not used.

-.5 PvP and non-CP campaigns. So now we have a unknown in all types of campaigns. Technically there are a few types still instead of breaking things down. It should have been a non-CP where any pre 50 with or without CP could go but inside the CP benefits were turned off. A 50 campaign with and without CP.
Then you'd have the regular everything goes.

But because you are using CP as VR, there is now another question which shouldn't exist. Is there going to be in all non CP campaigns for 50 a new non CP gear? Again why Cp shouldn't be used as a VR conversion.




Just let VR die. All the above is to outline, there are more questions generated

SirJackTheValiant

One thing that concerns me with the removal of veteran rank is what will happen to all the previous VR materials such as Galatite and Shadowhide etc. VR 1-14 used to have its own progression of equipment that you would need to find crafting materials for. Now once an account reaches CP 150 no character you use will ever need those materials, rendering them even more useless than they already were.

Enodoc

SirJackTheValiant wrote: »

One thing that concerns me with the removal of veteran rank is what will happen to all the previous VR materials such as Galatite and Shadowhide etc. VR 1-14 used to have its own progression of equipment that you would need to find crafting materials for. Now once an account reaches CP 150 no character you use will ever need those materials, rendering them even more useless than they already were.

Indeed. That's one of the reasons why a lot of people said that 50+ gear progression should be based on something other than power.

ZOS_RichLambert

Enodoc wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

"One of the great things about basing character strength on Champion Points instead of Veteran Ranks is how favorable it is for playing multiple characters. As Champion Points are shared across your account, all alternate characters on your account are able to access your account's Champion Points at level 50. For example, say you have 160 CP on your account. When you create a new character and level them to 50, they will be able to equip CP 160 gear right away! "

This makes it sound like 1-49 cannot access Champion Points.

Hmm, yeah, that's a bit odd. Is that bad wording, @ZOS_GinaBruno ? As it stands now on Live, any character on the account can spend the account's Champion Points, even those characters below Level 50. You need Level 50 plus x CPs to be able to wear the CP gear, but you don't need to be Level 50 to gain the attribute bonuses from CPs or to spend them in the passives.

Yeah just bad wording. You can still spend your CP below level 50. You just won't be able to equip the Champion restricted gear until you hit level 50. (the gear in the screen shot for the article requires level 50 and 160CP)

Pyr0xyrecuprotite

prax07 wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

prax07 wrote: »

So if I can't possibly reach vr16 before the change happens my character is always going to have less cp points than every other player that did reach vr16? Referring tyo the bonus cp points vr16's will be getting. What's the point in continuing to play if I'll always be gimped? If my friend eventually buys the game his characters will also be weaker than everyone elses because of those bonus cp points? Might as well tell him to not buy the game then.

@prax07 There is a catch-up mechanic. The less CP you have, the faster you earn them. You do still have to earn them, but you'll be gaining CP way faster than people at or near level cap. Even at level cap, they accrue pretty fast.

That's not the way I've been understanding it. The more cp you have the more each additional one costs more and more in xp right? So to grind away at that extra additional 40 cp gift on top of grinding out the rest of the cp to be on equal footing with every other vr16 player seems to me that it could take quite a lot of time to grind out. That could be months of grinding for someone who doesn't or can't power level for hours. I read somewhere that the higher cp points cost something like 400k xp each to earn, having to grind out that or more xp 40 additional times seems like an insane amount of xp to grind just to be equal to everyone else.

@prax07
- Once you get any alt up to current vet 1 rank (or Level 50 when DB comes out), you'll see how fast Champion Points are accumulated because of the catch-up mechanics. There are several factors involved:

1. . the catchup mechanic scales the XP requirements quite amazingly in your favour at first. When you hit L50, your first CP costs only 1xp etc, Champ points are EASY. It's only after about 450cp or so that you need 400k or more, and it goes up to around 700k xp (and more) after you reach the current cap of 501cp.
2. . With daily enlightenment, the first 100k xp each day (while enlightened) are increased by a factor of four for purposes of gaining CPs. Up to 12 days worth of enlightenment can be saved up if you are away or don't use the full amount each day. With Enlightenment, you just need to do one daily premium random nonvet dungeon to gain over 400k xp towards CPs.
3. . You only need 160cp to reach the new DB level cap. You are then effectively max level. Between the first two mechanics, this should take all of maybe 3 days worth of play. Even after that, you can gain at least 2CPs per hour of gameplay (if in dungeons or questing, never mind grinding) until you get up to the cap.
4. . Champion points have diminishing returns. You get MUCH more benefit from the first 50 points in each tree than you do for any points gained after that. Yes, there are health/magic/stam gains as you gain more CPs, but don't sweat it that much - they are relatively small gains, just a few percent.
5. . Usable Champion points are still capped at 501. Yes, it is useful to work towards gaining CPs after 160cp, but there is really no point after the current cap, other than to prepare for when the cap is eventually raised. That is, comparing a long-time player with 700cp and a new-ish player with 501cp, there is no need for the lower level player to try "grind" CPs - the only reasons to quest and kill stuff are to have fun, get achievements, level up skills (maybe gain some skill points), learn stuff and improve as a player.

Note that when DB comes out, every vet/L50 character will have all the level-based skill and attribute points, but you may still need to grind them through the Vet zones, plus Craglorn, Cyrodiil and perhaps DLC content, to get the remaining skyshards and quest/dungeon skill points. The number of available skill points (i.e. how many skills and passives can be unlocked) may become a greater differentiator than the number of Champion Points unlocked. More Skill points will give you a wider range of endgame build choices.

prax07

I am vr4, and after Weeks of playing I have 142cp. It's taken Weeks to get those, so not seeing these accumulate at a very fast pace. I'm very much sweating not having as many cp as every other vr16 when this converts over, and the gap is only getting bigger with those 40 bonus points I won't be getting. To me that's a huge deal. Having 160cp compared to 200 or 400 really is a big deal, can't. See how it wouldn't be. There's already threads about how players are going to kick lesser cp's out of groups.

NordSwordnBoard

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

"One of the great things about basing character strength on Champion Points instead of Veteran Ranks is how favorable it is for playing multiple characters. As Champion Points are shared across your account, all alternate characters on your account are able to access your account's Champion Points at level 50. For example, say you have 160 CP on your account. When you create a new character and level them to 50, they will be able to equip CP 160 gear right away! "

This makes it sound like 1-49 cannot access Champion Points.

Hmm, yeah, that's a bit odd. Is that bad wording, @ZOS_GinaBruno ? As it stands now on Live, any character on the account can spend the account's Champion Points, even those characters below Level 50. You need Level 50 plus x CPs to be able to wear the CP gear, but you don't need to be Level 50 to gain the attribute bonuses from CPs or to spend them in the passives.

Yeah just bad wording. You can still spend your CP below level 50. You just won't be able to equip the Champion restricted gear until you hit level 50. (the gear in the screen shot for the article requires level 50 and 160CP)

*When things are converted to CP from VR, will VRs who are at >VR16 be given the unearned attribute and skill points bonus retroactively?

"With the removal of Veteran Ranks, we had an extra 16 attribute and 16 stat points that needed to be allocated. Our initial thought was to grant all 16 as soon as you hit Level 50. However, we wanted to make the journey from 1-50 more exciting and rewarding. This lead us to doling out an extra attribute and stat point every 5 levels, and two extra points every 10 levels. This fit the 16 points perfectly and created a nice reward cadence for everyone. "

*A VR16 has the 16 points already. If levels 1-50 are given the 16 points at intervals, what about the VR1 or VR10s? If a VR10 has 10/16 then they must be compensated for the six points they could have earned. Will these be given at conversion?

* Consequently will any non veteran/non CP ranks be given this bonus prorated to what they've earned up to conversion? Does a level 11 get three points added for the bonus at level 5 and two points at level 10 after conversion?

A few examples of what skill points and attribute points a VR5, VR10, & VR16 and any level below 50 will have after the Dark Brotherhood DLC happens would be great.

NBrookus

prax07 wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

prax07 wrote: »

So if I can't possibly reach vr16 before the change happens my character is always going to have less cp points than every other player that did reach vr16? Referring tyo the bonus cp points vr16's will be getting. What's the point in continuing to play if I'll always be gimped? If my friend eventually buys the game his characters will also be weaker than everyone elses because of those bonus cp points? Might as well tell him to not buy the game then.

@prax07 There is a catch-up mechanic. The less CP you have, the faster you earn them. You do still have to earn them, but you'll be gaining CP way faster than people at or near level cap. Even at level cap, they accrue pretty fast.

That's not the way I've been understanding it. The more cp you have the more each additional one costs more and more in xp right? So to grind away at that extra additional 40 cp gift on top of grinding out the rest of the cp to be on equal footing with every other vr16 player seems to me that it could take quite a lot of time to grind out. That could be months of grinding for someone who doesn't or can't power level for hours. I read somewhere that the higher cp points cost something like 400k xp each to earn, having to grind out that or more xp 40 additional times seems like an insane amount of xp to grind just to be equal to everyone else.

@prax07 Okay I see, you are looking at the last 40, not the first 40. Those last 40 after 461 really don't mean much. Seriously. An extra 1% mitigation is not game breaking. The first 40 mean far more.

To put it in perspective: I have never done any grinding; I just play. The past few months, I have spent most of my playtime in PvP where you get very little XP. Yet, I am at CP cap. The 40 points they are going to give me means nothing -- I can't spend them. Your power grinders are most certainly at max CP; they were a few days after CP came out. They will also not get anything they can use from this.

It's the more casual players that have a vet toon that will gain the most... this helps them catch up a little.

If you are a PvE'er, there's nothing in the game that requires 501 CP except maybe vMoL and vMA, and that's debatable. If you don't have the time or inclination to grind XP, you won't want to spend hours or days getting past each stage in vMA for the first time anyway. (Eventually they'll nerf it, or power creep will make it more accessible. It's not going to be forever out of reach.) More CP just means stuff gets a little faster and easier, and you can tailor your toon a little more to your playstyle. Someone playing for casual enjoyment is not going to have anything change for them.

If you are a PvP'er, every server has a campaign that has no champion points applied at all. If you have CP160 gear, you will be on equal level footing with someone with 501+ champion points. And getting to CP 160 is going to come really fast. They may have better set gear than you, or a better computer or better ping rate or just play better because they have more experience, but that's going to be true in any multiplayer game.

Pyr0xyrecuprotite

prax07 wrote: »

I am vr4, and after Weeks of playing I have 142cp. It's taken Weeks to get those, so not seeing these accumulate at a very fast pace. I'm very much sweating not having as many cp as every other vr16 when this converts over, and the gap is only getting bigger with those 40 bonus points I won't be getting. To me that's a huge deal. Having 160cp compared to 200 or 400 really is a big deal, can't. See how it wouldn't be. There's already threads about how players are going to kick lesser cp's out of groups.

Prax07,
Go to the second zone capital, pickup the daily undaunted nonvet pledge, then queue up for the daily premium random nonvet dungeon. (If you are lucky you can get two in one). If possible, ask in zone chat or in your guilds for someone else to join you in a group first, it makes the pull for a dungeon MUCH faster. Even better, pop a Psijiic Ambrosia (or crown experience scroll) part way through the dungeon (once you have an idea of whether your group is good enough to finish it or not), to boost your XP gain when you finish it.

If you want to gain levels fast, some of the best grinds for a vr4 are either in Cyrodiil delves, or if you have the DLC, Wrothgar/Orsinium - either of the public dungeons, if you have a partner, or Maelstrom Arena (nonvet mode). The vet zones are mainly for either just enjoying the quests, exploration and stories, or gaining skill points. The xp is ok (and great for levelling skills), but you can gain levels (and CPs) faster through grinding.

Yes, there are many unfriendly players who will look at your level (currently) and either kick you (if crown) or leave the group. They are looking at your level (or soon CPs) as a proxy for how experienced a player you are, and how quickly they will be able to do the dungeon with you in the group. Yes, having done those same dungeons 100 times already, they just want to get through them as quickly as possible, and may look at you as a burden. So, do your best to level up as quickly as possible - and join some PvE-friendly guilds where there are people willing to run new players through dungeons, explaining boss mechanics etc. as you go. Also, always explain at the start of a dungeon if you are unfamiliar with it. I'd rather find out at the start than after the 3rd wipe...

Keep in mind that some people drop group for other reasons, possibly unrelated to you. For example, they may queue for a random, but be hoping to get a SPECIFIC dungeon (e.ge the day's pledge), and drop out if they don't get it. OR, if they get queued for one of the longer/tougher dungeons (e.g. Vaults of Madness, vet Darkshade, vet CoA, Vet WGT, vet ICP), they might decide that they just don't have the time to try do THAT dungeon with a random group. (Several of those dungeons require EVERYONE to be fairly good; you just wipe if one person keeps dying because of inexperience). This is why I recommend queuing for NONVET random dungeons until you are vr16 and have endgame-level gear.

NewBlacksmurf

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno and @Wrobel

The thing that's sad about this is that somehow ZOS believes that the VR system was understood and straight forward.
Sure ppl all understand1,2,3,4....16
Ppl also understood zone 1-->vr1, zone 2--->vr2.

What needed to be removed that was left behind was:
-1. silver and gold zones being in front of Craglorn but neither being scaled like DLC.
This was the time to go back, and remove VR so that Craglorn, Silver and gold zones all scale just like the DLC which seemingly the scale method is drastically preferred over the static post game tiering that VR caused. Now we are left with the same barren zones and what will become a farm feat in each gold zone in certain spots.

-2. Crafting material progression started out in a greater than 10 level range for use but in order to add more skill Passives it was a 10 level tier. This still is awkward. Mat 1 should range levels 1-10. Mat 2 should range level 11-20, etc for all crafting.
Any excess mats would need to end up in whatever post 50 system they will use. So for now 50 should stop it all.

I have differing ideas on all existing mats if they all are to stay in the game but to me it makes better logic to remove anything above what would be considered as level 66 (or 70 in an every10 level tier
And re-introduce them later in the seasonal ideas yet to be detailed by ZOS)

-3. Gear restrictions and gear drops. Plain and simple, these should align in the same 10 level tiering as mentioned above based on NPC levels for drops and the skill line to equip. Yes this means that if we are going to actually use CP (which again I think is a bad idea) you have to add on to the post 50 skill line and start representing the cp range for future gear equip requirements and that would also apply to NPC level drops. But using CP like this isn't removing VR.

-4. Player seperation. I think this was the big idea of it all. The success of the scaling idea that brought many of us together in scaled content was a good start. It definately needed a lot of balancing but it was the right direction. Now, we have no detail on if scaling will continue in a CP consideration because it seems as tho ZOS is leaving the skill and stat points from the VR to fall within the 1-50 but we can't test if this makes sense on PTS cause it hasn't been rolled out yet.

Also....unless you're giving temporary CP constellation boosts and adding 10 points to certain CP Passives already selected by each character, as well as boasting gear and weapons, you're not scaling ppl so ......again, CP is best not used.

-.5 PvP and non-CP campaigns. So now we have a unknown in all types of campaigns. Technically there are a few types still instead of breaking things down. It should have been a non-CP where any pre 50 with or without CP could go but inside the CP benefits were turned off. A 50 campaign with and without CP.
Then you'd have the regular everything goes.

But because you are using CP as VR, there is now another question which shouldn't exist. Is there going to be in all non CP campaigns for 50 a new non CP gear? Again why Cp shouldn't be used as a VR conversion.




Just let VR die. All the above is to outline, there are more questions generated

So no feedback or responses to any of the numbered items for 45 days?

No calculation info for scaling?
No PTS examples of scaling cause the new skill/stat points aren't there.

What gives?

lasersharks10

A bit confused about about the silver and gold zones, and how the difficulty of the mobs in those zones is going to change with the DB update.

So, let's say that silver zone 1 has mobs that are at 40cp.

Is our current experience going to convert into cp, or is it going to be that previously vr16 characters, who get the 40cp from reaching vr16, are going to be the only ones who can kill the mobs set at the 40cp difficulty? If those "bonus cp's" are the only ones we're receiving, then someone who is at vr1 and can fight mobs in the silver 1 zone, would stand no chance after the update? Since they'd only be at 2.5 CP?

I've probably missed something somewhere, but that's what i've taken ZOS's posts to mean about the transformation from vr's to cp's.

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated!

Enodoc

lasersharks10 wrote: »

A bit confused about about the silver and gold zones, and how the difficulty of the mobs in those zones is going to change with the DB update.

So, let's say that silver zone 1 has mobs that are at 40cp.

Is our current experience going to convert into cp, or is it going to be that previously vr16 characters, who get the 40cp from reaching vr16, are going to be the only ones who can kill the mobs set at the 40cp difficulty? If those "bonus cp's" are the only ones we're receiving, then someone who is at vr1 and can fight mobs in the silver 1 zone, would stand no chance after the update? Since they'd only be at 2.5 CP?

I've probably missed something somewhere, but that's what i've taken ZOS's posts to mean about the transformation from vr's to cp's.

Any clarification would be greatly appreciated!

@lasersharks10 None of the CPs you have already are being removed, so anyone who has been playing with a VR recently will probably have more than the zone's CP number anyway. Someone who is currently VR1 with less than 10 CPs will be given 10 CPs immediately. CPs really don't affect power all that much compared to VRs, so someone with 10 CPs should be able to handle 40 CP mobs.

Essiaga

So if you have a v16 or CP 160 and you start an alt then Silver will be only worth 30% ... Why would anyone bother? Just do Gold or do what everyone seems to be doing already and grind scaled content such as IC.

It would make more sense to make all content CP 3600 and just battle scale players like you do in DLCs and Cyro. Then content is never lost and no zone will need re-scaled in the cap increase.

This is the problem with the champion system. The gaps you created between v1 to v16 and the fear of closing the gap. CP benefits are simply to great. 501 gives you the ability to increase your character so much. 25% damage + ... 20% regen + ... it's crazy amounts. Then consider class passives. NB rule the world.

BTW ZOS didn't remove Vet Ranks. They simply changed the name ... and it took 2 friggin years. We still have so many crafting materials that are now less valuable because my alts will never need CP 10-150 gear again and neither will the large majority of the population of the game. So much stuff in game has lost it's value ... trash.

Firmus

As a v16 myself, I like the idea of being able to equip high-level gear once I reach level 50 with any of my new characters. Those of us who have reached v16 know how time-consuming and particularly painful leveling those veteran ranks was. Doing it once was enough to make us (the player) a veteran. If we decide to get a new character, we already know enough about the game to have a very good notion of what we are hoping to achieve with it, such as what sort of gear we want to use, what sort of role we want to play, how suitable that character will be for that role, etc. Having to level up that new toon to v16 in order to be able to equip high-level gear just didn't feel right to me.

In summary, I think the removal of veteran ranks, along with the already existing account-based champion point system, rightly recognizes the person behind the characters as the real veteran, instead of his or her individual toons.

NewBlacksmurf

Essiaga wrote: »

So if you have a v16 or CP 160 and you start an alt then Silver will be only worth 30% ... Why would anyone bother? Just do Gold or do what everyone seems to be doing already and grind scaled content such as IC.

It would make more sense to make all content CP 3600 and just battle scale players like you do in DLCs and Cyro. Then content is never lost and no zone will need re-scaled in the cap increase.

This is the problem with the champion system. The gaps you created between v1 to v16 and the fear of closing the gap. CP benefits are simply to great. 501 gives you the ability to increase your character so much. 25% damage + ... 20% regen + ... it's crazy amounts. Then consider class passives. NB rule the world.

BTW ZOS didn't remove Vet Ranks. They simply changed the name ... and it took 2 friggin years. We still have so many crafting materials that are now less valuable because my alts will never need CP 10-150 gear again and neither will the large majority of the population of the game. So much stuff in game has lost it's value ... trash.

@Essiaga
But we don't even know if scaling is still a thing for CP.

What is being scaled and what does higher CP mean for NPCs?

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

So if you have a v16 or CP 160 and you start an alt then Silver will be only worth 30% ... Why would anyone bother? Just do Gold or do what everyone seems to be doing already and grind scaled content such as IC.

It would make more sense to make all content CP 3600 and just battle scale players like you do in DLCs and Cyro. Then content is never lost and no zone will need re-scaled in the cap increase.

This is the problem with the champion system. The gaps you created between v1 to v16 and the fear of closing the gap. CP benefits are simply to great. 501 gives you the ability to increase your character so much. 25% damage + ... 20% regen + ... it's crazy amounts. Then consider class passives. NB rule the world.

BTW ZOS didn't remove Vet Ranks. They simply changed the name ... and it took 2 friggin years. We still have so many crafting materials that are now less valuable because my alts will never need CP 10-150 gear again and neither will the large majority of the population of the game. So much stuff in game has lost it's value ... trash.

But we don't even know if scaling is still a thing for CP.

What is being scaled and what does higher CP mean for NPCs?

@NewBlacksmurf I would assume it's the percentage increase to base attributes. More CPs = more health, magicka, and stamina. That's the easiest thing to scale, and the most likely thing that is relevant for NPCs.

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

So if you have a v16 or CP 160 and you start an alt then Silver will be only worth 30% ... Why would anyone bother? Just do Gold or do what everyone seems to be doing already and grind scaled content such as IC.

It would make more sense to make all content CP 3600 and just battle scale players like you do in DLCs and Cyro. Then content is never lost and no zone will need re-scaled in the cap increase.

This is the problem with the champion system. The gaps you created between v1 to v16 and the fear of closing the gap. CP benefits are simply to great. 501 gives you the ability to increase your character so much. 25% damage + ... 20% regen + ... it's crazy amounts. Then consider class passives. NB rule the world.

BTW ZOS didn't remove Vet Ranks. They simply changed the name ... and it took 2 friggin years. We still have so many crafting materials that are now less valuable because my alts will never need CP 10-150 gear again and neither will the large majority of the population of the game. So much stuff in game has lost it's value ... trash.

But we don't even know if scaling is still a thing for CP.

What is being scaled and what does higher CP mean for NPCs?

@NewBlacksmurf I would assume it's the percentage increase to base attributes. More CPs = more health, magicka, and stamina. That's the easiest thing to scale, and the most likely thing that is relevant for NPCs.

I'm just asking tho to be 100% clear because it's not otherwise obvious or clear enough to be assumed. The skill n stats from vr16 are within 1-50 so those attribute numbs should be there too. CP has always been different and in addition to but what is it

Toorlokviing

i hope im not the only one who hopped for a title for having v16s before db drop...you know so later on down the road when there are more newbs playing this game you could show off your nice title. of course its per v16 char prior to vet rank drop.


was thinking a title like "old timer" if anyone thinks of a better title for a vet 16 char when db drops by all means list your title ideas. most ppl honestly dont care about the extra 40cp since alot of the ppl playing this game since launch already are capped.