Info on how each skill works should be more easily available to players

Azurephoenix999

Problem

Players need to know things like what each skill scales off of, what kind of damage they deal, what defenses enemies could use against it and how to work around them, etc. Some of these may be mentioned in the skill's description, but a lot of the time it's not nearly as obvious.

This leads to lots of players (including myself sometimes) using abilities ineffectively, thinking they're not as good as everyone says they are on the forums, and then proceeding to complain about the skill on said forums.

If you're in a group delve with a group member that doesn't know how to optimise their build, they have difficulty performing their role correctly. This means the group as a whole will have a much more difficult and frustrating time, and thus they will have less fun.

Example

For example, until a few days ago I had no idea that Vigor actually scaled partially off of weapon damage and crit values, and thought it purely scaled off of Stamina. There was nothing in-game that would've lead me to find this out on my own, I only know it now because I lucked out and saw a comment that mentioned it. If I never saw that comment, I would be none the wiser, and my Vigor skill would be eternally rubbish because I had no idea how it actually worked.

"Why can't they just look up info on their skills online?"

There's no central database showing us these details on all the skills, all the fanmade ones are either severely outdated or don't work properly in the first place. With regards to googling this kind of info on each skill individually, that would take a hell of a long time and simply shouldn't be necessary.

Proposal

A button or key you can press when browsing skills in the skill menu, that brings up a more detailed description of how damage/healing/whatever is calculated with that skill, along with a list of tips that you can use if you want it to be more effective, the best situations in which the skill is used, and maybe a list of alternatives if that particular skill isn't working out for you.

Why I believe this would be beneficial to the community

People will know exactly how their skills work and in what situations they should use them. Players in general will become more competent and as a direct result the playerbase as a whole will have more fun playing the game.

LordSock

Sounds like a good idea. Would like to see this implemented. Could be a simple toggle in options called "Enhanced Tooltip" ON OFF

sirrmattus

how much you gona pay for it? cheap ass Z does nothing for free

Azurephoenix999

sirrmattus wrote: »

how much you gona pay for it? cheap ass Z does nothing for free

I'll give them £1, a plate of my finest pasta, and an old copy of Mass Effect.

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

It should have been incorporated from day one.
MASSIVE oversight on ZoS's part.

NewBlacksmurf

makes sense but i'd suggest that instead of a button, an automatic description should show under the existing box (just enable a scroll down option) so this would be open to PC aand console.

-Basically in setting there would be an option for full details - tool tips

Azurephoenix999

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

makes sense but i'd suggest that instead of a button, an automatic description should show under the existing box (just enable a scroll down option) so this would be open to PC aand console.

-Basically in setting there would be an option for full details - tool tips

Yeah, that could work too. Tbh, I think that idea is probably better.

Beardimus

I concur on this in particular for consoles. I do wonder how many people picked up a copy from a GAME store etc and just started playing it as a hack and slash and either get fed up or not having a Fing clue what's going on.

I personally would have been lost without this forums / Guild mates and all the web resources.

Rune_Relic

RTFM....!

Oh...wait.....

Azurephoenix999

Rune_Relic wrote: »

RTFM....!

Oh...wait.....

Exactly, my friend.

Shunravi

They should be more clear about all the stuff that players have had to figure out for themselves

Scaling, animation canceling, armor previews, hardcaps, trait effects, etc...

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

You obviously mean: "They should've been...", right?

Shunravi

dtm_samuraib16_ESO wrote: »

You obviously mean: "They should've been...", right?

Reply to me? Well, yes, but they didn't. So they should now going forward.

Magdalina

Absolutely, yes, I've been saying this for so long.

There's absolutely no easy intuitive way to know that most skills scale with corresponding max stat, crit and damage, but shields scale with max stat only(...actually haven't known this myself for the longest time...), as do sorc pets, that physical and spell resistance actually have a hard cap and while you can keep stacking them skyhigh it loses all effect after some point, that synergies scale with synergizer's highest stat(rather than your own; I ended up testing this myself with a friend since there's no clear info anywhere) etc etc etc...
Why it is that way I have no idea. It's like ZOS just makes skills/mechanics based on "this sounds cool!" sometimes and then it's up to players to figure out how it works or something.

emily3989

Respec scroll sales would plummet.

Annalyse

This is a great idea. Adding to it, I would also love to be able to see the morph options before I take the base skill. Sometimes a morphed skill is very useful while the base one is not.

Azurephoenix999

Shunravi wrote: »

They should be more clear about all the stuff that players have had to figure out for themselves

Scaling, animation canceling, armor previews, hardcaps, trait effects, etc...

Well, we know about that stuff now, but having something in-game to explain it would always be helpful for the newbies.

Azurephoenix999

Annalyse wrote: »

This is a great idea. Adding to it, I would also love to be able to see the morph options before I take the base skill. Sometimes a morphed skill is very useful while the base one is not.

I second this.

idk

No game explains in game how much each skill scales off something stats. It is formula based and the formulas are out there. Google and you'll end up finding it.

At that; most things that cost stam scale off stam and weapon dammage. Same is true for magika but it's the general rule and there are some exceptions.

Also, generally 1 pt weapon damage = ~9.5 stam. Again, same with magika and spell damage.

Lenikus

....You do realize they tell you all the time that Stamina abilities scale on Weapon damage and Max Stamina, and Magicka abilities scale on Spell damage and Max Magicka, and Ultimate abilities scale on whichever is higher, right ?

That's on character screen when you select what to add as a stat point.

Azurephoenix999

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

No game explains in game how much each skill scales off something stats. It is formula based and the formulas are out there. Google and you'll end up finding it.

At that; most things that cost stam scale off stam and weapon dammage. Same is true for magika but it's the general rule and there are some exceptions.

Also, generally 1 pt weapon damage = ~9.5 stam. Again, same with magika and spell damage.

Can't name an example atm, but there must be at least one game that already does it.

Besides, even if no games do this yet, that's not a sufficient reason for why ESO can't be the first.

Magdalina

Lenikus wrote: »

....You do realize they tell you all the time that Stamina abilities scale on Weapon damage and Max Stamina, and Magicka abilities scale on Spell damage and Max Magicka, and Ultimate abilities scale on whichever is higher, right ?

That's on character screen when you select what to add as a stat point.

...so here I was naively thinking my shields, as a magicka ability, must be scaling off Spell damage and Max Magicka, only to discover they actually only scale with Max Magicka(as do my pets, which are also a magicka ability).

Dromede

I don't insist on having mathematical formulas out, but please include something like "this skill scales of your max magicka and spell power"! Or maybe that part of skill description can be unlocked by toggling Combat hints in the settings or something...

I feel really bad for console players who want to be competitive - I'm so used to rely on PC addons to help me with creating builds, I have no idea how they do that.

rfennell_ESO

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Problem

Players need to know things like what each skill scales off of, what kind of damage they deal, what defenses enemies could use against it and how to work around them, etc. Some of these may be mentioned in the skill's description, but a lot of the time it's not nearly as obvious.

This leads to lots of players (including myself sometimes) using abilities ineffectively, thinking they're not as good as everyone says they are on the forums, and then proceeding to complain about the skill on said forums.

If you're in a group delve with a group member that doesn't know how to optimise their build, they have difficulty performing their role correctly. This means the group as a whole will have a much more difficult and frustrating time, and thus they will have less fun.

Example

For example, until a few days ago I had no idea that Vigor actually scaled partially off of weapon damage and crit values, and thought it purely scaled off of Stamina. There was nothing in-game that would've lead me to find this out on my own, I only know it now because I lucked out and saw a comment that mentioned it. If I never saw that comment, I would be none the wiser, and my Vigor skill would be eternally rubbish because I had no idea how it actually worked.

"Why can't they just look up info on their skills online?"

There's no central database showing us these details on all the skills, all the fanmade ones are either severely outdated or don't work properly in the first place. With regards to googling this kind of info on each skill individually, that would take a hell of a long time and simply shouldn't be necessary.

Proposal

A button or key you can press when browsing skills in the skill menu, that brings up a more detailed description of how damage/healing/whatever is calculated with that skill, along with a list of tips that you can use if you want it to be more effective, the best situations in which the skill is used, and maybe a list of alternatives if that particular skill isn't working out for you.

Why I believe this would be beneficial to the community

People will know exactly how their skills work and in what situations they should use them. Players in general will become more competent and as a direct result the playerbase as a whole will have more fun playing the game.

There was a point where (I think) esohead was trying to include this with bars for rank scaling and stat scaling.

The problem is, it seems, every 3 months or so ZOS does such a radical redesign of so many features and abilities that anything you worked out becomes out of date and useless.

Also, there really is no world of worldcraft analog in this game. What many (and I'm not meaning to lump you into the ex wow grouping, regardless) people expect isn't remotely possible to gauge in eso. For the most part, in wow, all you really needed to know was the coefficient a spell used to calculate damage (or coefficients for multiple effects etc). This game is all over the place in that it has a coefficient but it's drawing from multiple and sometimes not very intuitive sources to calculate things.

Any information I once had, spreadsheets... or testing... or whatever sites that have remotely accurate infomation (good luck with that) will become mostly useless in no time.

I don't even know a site that has any accurate and up to date information any longer.

Dromede

Lenikus wrote: »

....You do realize they tell you all the time that Stamina abilities scale on Weapon damage and Max Stamina, and Magicka abilities scale on Spell damage and Max Magicka, and Ultimate abilities scale on whichever is higher, right ?

That's on character screen when you select what to add as a stat point.

There's too many grey areas.. And also there's so many loot items that increase max magicka and stamina return that players will think that you need to increase both to be viable. Think about Elegant set that is going to change only with DB release, even though the scaling changes were introduced over a year ago. It's all very confusing.

lolo_01b16_ESO

Do you think there is someone at zos who knows how every single skill works? And if so, why did some skills have wrong / inaccurate tooltips for a full year?

Rohamad_Ali

I like information . I would like to know more .

rfennell_ESO

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

Do you think there is someone at zos who knows how every single skill works? And if so, why did some skills have wrong / inaccurate tooltips for a full year?

I'm guessing that if there was someone that actually knew the details and math to every skill they would be leaving ZOS to work on derivatives on wall street.

Azurephoenix999

Dromede wrote: »

I don't insist on having mathematical formulas out, but please include something like "this skill scales of your max magicka and spell power"! Or maybe that part of skill description can be unlocked by toggling Combat hints in the settings or something...

I feel really bad for console players who want to be competitive - I'm so used to rely on PC addons to help me with creating builds, I have no idea how they do that.

This is what I'm asking for. Nothing specific, just a list of the stats that the ability uses to calculate effectiveness, and maybe a list of what affects each of those stats so you know how to get more in that stat.

Shunravi

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Dromede wrote: »

I don't insist on having mathematical formulas out, but please include something like "this skill scales of your max magicka and spell power"! Or maybe that part of skill description can be unlocked by toggling Combat hints in the settings or something...

I feel really bad for console players who want to be competitive - I'm so used to rely on PC addons to help me with creating builds, I have no idea how they do that.

This is what I'm asking for. Nothing specific, just a list of the stats that the ability uses to calculate effectiveness, and maybe a list of what affects each of those stats so you know how to get more in that stat.

All you would need is colors and a guide to them. Say green for stamina, blue for magica, red for health, yellow for weapon damage, purple for spell damage. Have them somewhere somehow in the description.

If only stamina were yellow then it would be easier to work with primary and secondary colors....

But then, words may just do it better and be les confusing.

Alagras

Can't agree more. An in-game interactive wiki would completely change the game for many players. Also good repeatable tutorials, like "master of arms" quests

And it would be a very good deal for ZoS financially, i swear it

Because there s a fracture in the player base between the people who make research, watch builds videos etc and those who don't.
And it leads many players to leave the game as they get called noobs in every single pick up group they join, they feel it's over their head, that they're missing something, and it is bound to happen given how much "figure-it-yourself" the game is. Not saying it s always the game fault, but very little is done to avoid that.

If the game doesn t show them they re doing some things wrong, players will. "lol m8 u n00b ur dps sucks lol" they're told, after it happened 3-4 times they're quite likely to cancel sub and uninstall game.
For instance many players think for a long time that they can be hybrids stam/magic and still deal good damage. The memory of previous elder scrolls games is misleading them, and how could it be otherwise? Elder scrolls serie is single player, so many players lead here by say Skyrim don't have an MMO culture

If the game doesn t show them they re doing some things wrong, players will. "lol m8 u n00b ur dps sucks lol" after they're told this 3-4 times they're quite likely to cancel sub and uninstall game.

"Can't they google a bit to figure things out all info is out there on the web"? Sure, but for many people doing so feels like a job, it's not what they expect for the end of their day. If the info is inside the game it feels very different.

Make a real in-game wiki with everything, with every text full of links leading to terms definition and explanation, a search box (that works), skill trees etc, and the level of the average player will seriously go up, and his fun will follow, and his money along.

As OP said

Azurephoenix999 wrote: »

Problem Players in general will become more competent and as a direct result the playerbase as a whole will have more fun playing the game.

also

emily3989 wrote: »

Respec scroll sales would plummet.

that too



Also tutorials would help a lot. They could take place in fighter and mages guilds halls, they re empty they can become training grounds. Put some "master of arms" or arcanes in each, giving challenges of ascending difficulty following the "level" of the zone, easiest in starting zones and so on.

Take those players who never dodge roll out of red circles, or in 5 seconds. Well they re just lacking practice. Give them a challenge where they do nothing but dodge rollin gout of appearing circles for one minutes, with some stam feeding, and they will rock. In each new zone a harder challenge awaits in guild hall, and so on.

Tanking, damage dealing and healing tutorials, as a guy who's playing his first MMO can perfectly miss what taunting is until he's explained properly, or the pros and cons between over time and burst abilities (speaking of... nevermind). Teaching basics of what a skill rotation is.

I would see a little "narration problem" here though, as NPCs are never supposed to say he names of skills, or even the names of the 4 classes. Only Cyro quest boards do i think
But, well, i think they should. Integrate the 4 classses to the lore for good, and give each player a quest where he comes to the source of his class martial style, learning who founded it etc. Classes are imo beautifully designed, with oppositions in their combat styles but also their aesthetic, their elements, it could become the matter of good quests