Why Vicious death needs serious nerfage

frownsyndromes

ok guys so heres some back story, made a magicka nightblade 2 weeks ago to try out vicious death and literally its so stupid, you actually dont need a shed of skill (i know this because im absolute garbage on my nightblade), and yet look how easy this is to pull off, and i mean you can pretty much just own cyrodil if you have your ulti.... sorry for the rant but due to the fact that im still a newbie to magicka nightblade and i can pull this off really grinds my gears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79NXS8yiv9k

DUTCH_REAPER

Vicious Death /hug

leepalmer95

Well:

1. They were spawn camping, they deserved to be blown up.
2. They were in arena and likely running at the reds for the last 4 hours gaining no ap, zerging and not helping the actual pvp fight while taking up slots.
3. If they don't want to be blown up then they shouldn't stack.

I feel like this video shows VD working.

GeertKarel

I did pvp for the first time in a few months and I came against a few of those players, sadly for them I was fully specced as tank, didn't bother to chance cp/gear for only 30k ap (warhorn).

frownsyndromes

hahahah yeah very true but lets be honest its a little too strong on a nightlbade, i absolutly love to run it on my magicka dk but thats only because you have to use your brain to make it work

Necrelios

Ultimately, it wasn't Vicious Death that killed them. It was their over confident zerg mentality. This is exactly the kind of thing the set is supposed to challenge, and they totally had it coming.

More VD working as intended:

Personally, I love seeing this set in action. This is war, do you think war is fair? War is not fair. Defeating superior elements requires asymmetrical warfare.

frownsyndromes

i see what your saying but the damage it does is just insane

ChildOfLight

Here they came. Full stacks of nbs defending their broken skill because "it works as intended". Like a single skill should instant 100 - 0 a group of players with no possible interation or counterplay. Let's everyone reroll into Nb and play "Tamriel unlimited: World of NBs"

aLi3nZ

Magika nightblade got a bit of a well needed balance next patch.

-Prox det damage reduced by 40%. Although apparently when there is 10 enemy players in the target area the damage is only a bit less than it is now.

-Its no longer possibly to double dip in CP with abilities like proxy det by stacking points into elemental and thamature since prox det is not considered a dot by zos.

End result means this will be harder to pull off but yes, still possible.

I use this set atm. Its much more fun making tv stones blowing up groups then grinding. I am trying to get the last xyvikn polymorph atm. I did notice after blowing up pretty much any group once or twice they got pretty smart/wise with their gameplay. I had several failed attempts on a particular dc group in ic sewers. Another group put on barrier to collect a portal chest but it didn't work out of them which actually surprised me, lol.

Necrelios

ChildOfLight wrote: »

Here they came. Full stacks of nbs defending their broken skill because "it works as intended". Like a single skill should instant 100 - 0 a group of players with no possible interation or counterplay. Let's everyone reroll into Nb and play "Tamriel unlimited: World of NBs"

It sounds to me like the true underlying problem is more to do with nightblades than vicious death. Nightblades have some of the most powerful skills already, and just can spam cc's and lotus fan until other classes run out of stamina, then it's an easy victory.

Brutusmax1mus

Yes that's really dumb. Skill less 15k damage proc is bad for the game. But, you may have been able to kill a ton still with det, ultimate, SAP? A few times.

RazielSR

The set works good and zos made it against zergers. Is just another set,another option.

swirve

frownsyndromes wrote: »

ok guys so heres some back story, made a magicka nightblade 2 weeks ago to try out vicious death and literally its so stupid, you actually dont need a shed of skill (i know this because im absolute garbage on my nightblade), and yet look how easy this is to pull off, and i mean you can pretty much just own cyrodil if you have your ulti.... sorry for the rant but due to the fact that im still a newbie to magicka nightblade and i can pull this off really grinds my gears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79NXS8yiv9k

Noobs die frequently to VD from proximity to others. Most other things will kill you over this...

Its a l2p issue and yes i run with dem zergs but i dont play like a tard to be getting killed all da time by proxy and VD...like a lot of crybabies do...

There is a difference bout complaining bout VD proc b4 death...and being a noob who wants everything that kills u nerfed..

Brutusmax1mus

The worst part is how everyone and their mother had a full set after 1 week. It still does way to much damage for a set price proc. Should be more like skoria imo

RazielSR

Should be more like the end of easywinzergers.

Callous2208

Every nb and sorc is running it now, so it's almost a moot point. Hasn't really done anything to help with breaking up zergs though. Still zerg vs zerg, just all of them have VD. The people it really hurts are the small groups who used to use skill to overcome greater odds or stand tall against a decent ganker. It's ironic that this "zerg buster" set has made small group play even more dangerous, leading people back to the safety of the zerg.

Edit: And as of last night, I still say it's proc'ing before death. I know, I know, it's just an error on the death cap. I used to think that too, now I'm not so sure.

Rva_Kun

lol

Buffler

It procs if your engine guardian gets killed which is just plain stupid

swirve

swirve wrote: »

frownsyndromes wrote: »

ok guys so heres some back story, made a magicka nightblade 2 weeks ago to try out vicious death and literally its so stupid, you actually dont need a shed of skill (i know this because im absolute garbage on my nightblade), and yet look how easy this is to pull off, and i mean you can pretty much just own cyrodil if you have your ulti.... sorry for the rant but due to the fact that im still a newbie to magicka nightblade and i can pull this off really grinds my gears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79NXS8yiv9k

Noobs die frequently to VD from proximity to others. Most other things will kill you over this...

Callous2208 wrote: »

Every nb and sorc is running it now, so it's almost a moot point. Hasn't really done anything to help with breaking up zergs though. Still zerg vs zerg, just all of them have VD. The people it really hurts are the small groups who used to use skill to overcome greater odds or stand tall against a decent ganker. It's ironic that this "zerg buster" set has made small group play even more dangerous, leading people back to the safety of the zerg.

Edit: And as of last night, I still say it's proc'ing before death. I know, I know, it's just an error on the death cap. I used to think that too, now I'm not so sure.

Im guessing you dont play in skill groups... i often run with up 2 8 players and we frequently smash 20+ zergs in no time at all in open battlefield...its a combination of skill, healing and buffs...though this is azura where a lot of yellows and blues left because they could not run cp advantage over the average player...

Callous2208

swirve wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

frownsyndromes wrote: »

ok guys so heres some back story, made a magicka nightblade 2 weeks ago to try out vicious death and literally its so stupid, you actually dont need a shed of skill (i know this because im absolute garbage on my nightblade), and yet look how easy this is to pull off, and i mean you can pretty much just own cyrodil if you have your ulti.... sorry for the rant but due to the fact that im still a newbie to magicka nightblade and i can pull this off really grinds my gears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79NXS8yiv9k

Noobs die frequently to VD from proximity to others. Most other things will kill you over this...

Callous2208 wrote: »

Every nb and sorc is running it now, so it's almost a moot point. Hasn't really done anything to help with breaking up zergs though. Still zerg vs zerg, just all of them have VD. The people it really hurts are the small groups who used to use skill to overcome greater odds or stand tall against a decent ganker. It's ironic that this "zerg buster" set has made small group play even more dangerous, leading people back to the safety of the zerg.

Edit: And as of last night, I still say it's proc'ing before death. I know, I know, it's just an error on the death cap. I used to think that too, now I'm not so sure.

Im guessing you dont play in skill groups... i often run with up 2 8 players and we frequently smash 20+ zergs in no time at all in open battlefield...its a combination of skill, healing and buffs...though this is azura where a lot of yellows and blues left because they could not run cp advantage over the average player...

I do indeed run with those types of groups. I find it less of an issue in Azura as well. The issues I spoke of are mainly Trueflame/Haderus. Just from personal experience. On a side note, there still exists a great disparity, if it takes a skilled pvp group of 2-8, to withstand a cheese mechanic from one unskilled nb's onslaught.

swirve

Callous2208 wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

frownsyndromes wrote: »

ok guys so heres some back story, made a magicka nightblade 2 weeks ago to try out vicious death and literally its so stupid, you actually dont need a shed of skill (i know this because im absolute garbage on my nightblade), and yet look how easy this is to pull off, and i mean you can pretty much just own cyrodil if you have your ulti.... sorry for the rant but due to the fact that im still a newbie to magicka nightblade and i can pull this off really grinds my gears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79NXS8yiv9k

Noobs die frequently to VD from proximity to others. Most other things will kill you over this...

Callous2208 wrote: »

Every nb and sorc is running it now, so it's almost a moot point. Hasn't really done anything to help with breaking up zergs though. Still zerg vs zerg, just all of them have VD. The people it really hurts are the small groups who used to use skill to overcome greater odds or stand tall against a decent ganker. It's ironic that this "zerg buster" set has made small group play even more dangerous, leading people back to the safety of the zerg.

Edit: And as of last night, I still say it's proc'ing before death. I know, I know, it's just an error on the death cap. I used to think that too, now I'm not so sure.

Im guessing you dont play in skill groups... i often run with up 2 8 players and we frequently smash 20+ zergs in no time at all in open battlefield...its a combination of skill, healing and buffs...though this is azura where a lot of yellows and blues left because they could not run cp advantage over the average player...

I do indeed run with those types of groups. I find it less of an issue in Azura as well. The issues I spoke of are mainly Trueflame/Haderus. Just from personal experience. On a side note, there still exists a great disparity, if it takes a skilled pvp group of 2-8, to withstand a cheese mechanic from one unskilled nb's onslaught.

It does not take skill, it takes not being rubbish...only below average skill players struggle with VD or they are just whiners...

The up2 8 players is for fighting zergs...zergs are easy to deal with...

Callous2208

swirve wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

swirve wrote: »

frownsyndromes wrote: »

ok guys so heres some back story, made a magicka nightblade 2 weeks ago to try out vicious death and literally its so stupid, you actually dont need a shed of skill (i know this because im absolute garbage on my nightblade), and yet look how easy this is to pull off, and i mean you can pretty much just own cyrodil if you have your ulti.... sorry for the rant but due to the fact that im still a newbie to magicka nightblade and i can pull this off really grinds my gears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79NXS8yiv9k

Noobs die frequently to VD from proximity to others. Most other things will kill you over this...

Callous2208 wrote: »

Every nb and sorc is running it now, so it's almost a moot point. Hasn't really done anything to help with breaking up zergs though. Still zerg vs zerg, just all of them have VD. The people it really hurts are the small groups who used to use skill to overcome greater odds or stand tall against a decent ganker. It's ironic that this "zerg buster" set has made small group play even more dangerous, leading people back to the safety of the zerg.

Edit: And as of last night, I still say it's proc'ing before death. I know, I know, it's just an error on the death cap. I used to think that too, now I'm not so sure.

Im guessing you dont play in skill groups... i often run with up 2 8 players and we frequently smash 20+ zergs in no time at all in open battlefield...its a combination of skill, healing and buffs...though this is azura where a lot of yellows and blues left because they could not run cp advantage over the average player...

I do indeed run with those types of groups. I find it less of an issue in Azura as well. The issues I spoke of are mainly Trueflame/Haderus. Just from personal experience. On a side note, there still exists a great disparity, if it takes a skilled pvp group of 2-8, to withstand a cheese mechanic from one unskilled nb's onslaught.

It does not take skill, it takes not being rubbish...only below average skill players struggle with VD or they are just whiners...

Alright then friend. I'll say no more, though I am starting to have my doubts you do any serious pvping. Carry on not being rubbish, or perhaps using this false bravado as a thinly veiled attempt to defend this cheese set so you can continue utilizing it. And you're not downing zergs with 2-8 players. No one who has spent one day in Cyro is buying that line.

arkansas_ESO

Working as intended, IMO.


Honestly, it's not that hard to counter proxy det NBs as a group. Spread out, avoid stacking on chests/bosses/flags/etc., and, if all else fails, have somebody in your group running Radiant Magelight.

Brutusmax1mus

Stacking on flags is how you capture them though. Imo one player should not be able to kill as many as I've seen vicious death kill with in 5 seconds. The damage is way to high even at 7k it would be very strong, but it is double that.

Buffler

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Working as intended, IMO.


Honestly, it's not that hard to counter proxy det NBs as a group. Spread out, avoid stacking on chests/bosses/flags/etc., and, if all else fails, have somebody in your group running Radiant Magelight.

So in a 1v1 when the opponent destroys your engine guardian and you die because it procced VD thats working as intended?

Necrelios

Buffler wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Working as intended, IMO.


Honestly, it's not that hard to counter proxy det NBs as a group. Spread out, avoid stacking on chests/bosses/flags/etc., and, if all else fails, have somebody in your group running Radiant Magelight.

So in a 1v1 when the opponent destroys your engine guardian and you die because it procced VD thats working as intended?

No. Engine Guardians are not players. While it is hilarious, I do not believe it is intended . But then again, with the targeting system they really can't hit you until they destroy your engine guardian which isn't really fair either. People have been exploiting that for a long time so it's about time they got their due.

VanHalen

VD do not need a nerf. Just imagine how many tens of times NBs has to die pointless in the enemy crowd. And only 1 try of 100 published on YouTube
https://youtu.be/6vBJjp5_5ak

Van_0S

Yes!!
It actually made PvP more zergy

Kalante

There is a reason why rings of vicious death sell for over 70k gold.

Seri

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Stacking on flags is how you capture them though.

Hold block while on the flag? Keep defensive buffs up? Someone run magelight? Trops?

Aeryj has been kind enough to insta-bomb me in a group of 6ish inside a keep before and that was before VD was even a thing.

Personally I find it amusing watching groups wipe (even if it's my faction) and I don't even run the set, nor have a NB who has spent more than 5 minutes in Cyro.

VanHalen

VanHalen wrote: »

VD do not need a nerf. Just imagine how many tens of times NBs has to die pointless in the enemy crowd. And only 1 try of 100 published on YouTube
https://youtu.be/6vBJjp5_5ak

but I also love to abuse VD
https://youtu.be/jzpXaGxV0Wg