My thoughts on the Werewolf skill line...

Sogreth

First off I wanted to say that I love being able to use Werewolf/Vampire in ESO, it's great! But, I also have a few issues with the WW skill line.

The biggest one for me is the cost of the the Ultimate (Werewolf Transformation), compared to what you can actually do while transformed. 400 (325 for Rank 4) Ultimate is a pretty hefty amount for a 30 second transformation. And from what I've seen myself and what I've heard from other players, it's not much of a DPS increase at all, and it feels more like a mobility ultimate. Just used to run fast.

It feels like it's used only for the mobility, and mainly for cosmetic reasons (it looks so cool ). So here are some of my thoughts/changes to the WW Skill line that I think would make it much more smooth.

A toggle. Either change the WW ultimate to a toggle that drains Ultimate each second, or drains on each attack. I would honestly prefer each attack. I'm not a huge fan of this limited duration, and I think we should be able to freely go in and out of our Werewolf form. And as I said early, it's not like it's a huge DPS increase, many players have even said to me that they lose a LOT of DPS using it, and it's mainly used just for fun/looks.

Devour Passive. I think this needs to be changed. Either change the passive so you gain a small amount of Health and XX extra seconds on each kill (rather than having to stop, eat a corpse, then continue on). Or change the animation to be more clear and smooth. It feels very clunky right now. If you don't let the animation go all the way through, you don't get the extra time, even if you happen to move or get CC'd half a second early. Or if you take even 1 second too long to eat a corpse, it will disappear half way through and you don't get extra time.

TL;DR I think the WW skill line has a lot of potential. It just feels too clunky right now. And I think some changes are in order.

sneakymitchell

At least the Devour stops the time completely. But I do hate in PvP is when I devour an enemy and they re spawn at the nearest keep or what ever. I hate that they need to change that or what you said more faster animation.

iam_slickone

werewolf when used correctly can be very strong.

Sogreth

iam_slickone wrote: »

werewolf when used correctly can be very strong.

Any player that I've talked to about it have all said the same thing. "It's not a DPS increase", so there is never a point to using it in dungeons, and mainly only used for questing or if you want a "30 seconds of fame"...quite literally, it's like saying "Look at me! I'm a badass wolf!" And although they are right, it still doesn't feel great to be mainly used for cosmetic purposes. And in PvP I feel like it has even more problems than with PvE.

Strider_Roshin

It's such a burden on resources. I would like to transform but the abilities cost so much that it's a DPS loss due to all of the fully charged heavy attacks I need to throw in there.

leepalmer95

Sogreth wrote: »

iam_slickone wrote: »

werewolf when used correctly can be very strong.

Any player that I've talked to about it have all said the same thing. "It's not a DPS increase", so there is never a point to using it in dungeons, and mainly only used for questing or if you want a "30 seconds of fame"...quite literally. In PvP I feel like it has even more problems than with PvE.

Howl of agony is basically a wb without a charge up time, you get 10k~ stamina and 10k armour when in ww form.

The bleed off light attacks is very strong as well as the Dot from the claws.

In pvp a fear/howl basically 1 hits people.

Farorin

my biggest gripe with WW is the devour thing and corpses dissapearing/players re spawning. I think if you start the animation and complete it to the end, you should get the increase to the timer eve if the corpse is gone before the animation finishes.

Lynx7386

I'd like to see them change it like so:

Werewolf costs 300 ultimate (at rank 4) to transform, and when you transform you remain at 300 ultimate, or higher if you had higher than 300 when you used the ability (like overload can go past it's cost when building up ultimate).

When transformed, there is no timer or duration. Your special attacks all consume ultimate from that pool, rather than stamina or magicka, and deal damage based on your highest stat (the same way ultimates scale). This would make werewolf a little more effective for magicka builds as well as stamina builds. Each ability should cost something like 25-50 ultimate (prior to passives), so if you transform at 300 ultimate, the minimum required, you can use 6-12 abilities before being forced back. This will also cause abilities to be used more tactically and not simply spammed, you'll be relying on normal attacks more than your specials.

When transformed, light and heavy attacks regain a small amount of ultimate, so you can keep your morph going for longer and use more abilities. If you choose, you can forgo using any abilities and essentially stay transformed indefinitely. Simply having light and heavy attacks restore the normal ultimate (which is what, 1 every 3 seconds?) would allow you to space out your specials in order to stay transformed longer, or indefinitely.

jircris11

in pve i can run around in WW form indefinitely if in a dungeon or a some what populated area. In pvp i use it for those "need tank" moments and honestly i love going against groups of 3-5 and walking out full hp.

Bookwyrm

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I'd like to see them change it like so:

Werewolf costs 300 ultimate (at rank 4) to transform, and when you transform you remain at 300 ultimate, or higher if you had higher than 300 when you used the ability (like overload can go past it's cost when building up ultimate).

When transformed, there is no timer or duration. Your special attacks all consume ultimate from that pool, rather than stamina or magicka, and deal damage based on your highest stat (the same way ultimates scale). This would make werewolf a little more effective for magicka builds as well as stamina builds. Each ability should cost something like 25-50 ultimate (prior to passives), so if you transform at 300 ultimate, the minimum required, you can use 6-12 abilities before being forced back. This will also cause abilities to be used more tactically and not simply spammed, you'll be relying on normal attacks more than your specials.

When transformed, light and heavy attacks regain a small amount of ultimate, so you can keep your morph going for longer and use more abilities. If you choose, you can forgo using any abilities and essentially stay transformed indefinitely. Simply having light and heavy attacks restore the normal ultimate (which is what, 1 every 3 seconds?) would allow you to space out your specials in order to stay transformed longer, or indefinitely.

This would also be great for people who want to roleplay as their wolves, as they won't have to worry about shifting out of form unless they wanted to/started using abilities.

Iduyenn

Some nice ideas! Keep it up brothers/sisters .... There is hope, that the devs will hear us this time!

antmck2011rwb17_ESO

Bookwyrm wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I'd like to see them change it like so:

Werewolf costs 300 ultimate (at rank 4) to transform, and when you transform you remain at 300 ultimate, or higher if you had higher than 300 when you used the ability (like overload can go past it's cost when building up ultimate).

When transformed, there is no timer or duration. Your special attacks all consume ultimate from that pool, rather than stamina or magicka, and deal damage based on your highest stat (the same way ultimates scale). This would make werewolf a little more effective for magicka builds as well as stamina builds. Each ability should cost something like 25-50 ultimate (prior to passives), so if you transform at 300 ultimate, the minimum required, you can use 6-12 abilities before being forced back. This will also cause abilities to be used more tactically and not simply spammed, you'll be relying on normal attacks more than your specials.

When transformed, light and heavy attacks regain a small amount of ultimate, so you can keep your morph going for longer and use more abilities. If you choose, you can forgo using any abilities and essentially stay transformed indefinitely. Simply having light and heavy attacks restore the normal ultimate (which is what, 1 every 3 seconds?) would allow you to space out your specials in order to stay transformed longer, or indefinitely.

This would also be great for people who want to roleplay as their wolves, as they won't have to worry about shifting out of form unless they wanted to/started using abilities.

Taking it one step further... I'd like to see werewolf armour, and be able to customise your wolf.

KanedaSyndrome

Ehm, it's a 15 second transformation no?

KanedaSyndrome

You say for some it's not a major DPS increase, well for me it is. I think I do 5 times as much DPS while in werewolf form. I can 1-2 hit most mobs at my level. World bosses melt like butter while I'm transformed.

antmck2011rwb17_ESO

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

You say for some it's not a major DPS increase, well for me it is. I think I do 5 times as much DPS while in werewolf form. I can 1-2 hit most mobs at my level. World bosses melt like butter while I'm transformed.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I have trouble with some world bosses - those in Wrothgar or Hew's Bane.

willymchilybily

It's a dps increase for those who are allocating CP and using the right gear. Eg spawn of maphala. Or molag kena. My dots tick for 5-6k my howl is 20k to 27k depending on buffs and combos I use. and my heavy attacks are just a just shy of 20k most of the time

An animation canceled heavy howl combo goes of in a matter of seconds it's gotto be around 25k dps Or more i'd think. If you have you caltrops and maelstrom bows ground aoe running with what ever other dots you have going you only lose those extra dos sources for 2/3 of transformation.

I've seen Alcast drop vMA final round boss before the first crematiorium guard spawns. only other class that gets close to this is a sorc with overload and top end gear/set up. So in my opinion it's pretty good.

And in imperial city I go to the right district I can use it and never despawn. Seems like it's at about the right place imo. Sure I'd like to see a ultimate reduction and a better devour mechanic. But it isn't so in need of these changes.

CaptainBeerDude

I would love to be able to use class abilities while in WW. Bound Wolf Armour FtW.

Iduyenn

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

You say for some it's not a major DPS increase, well for me it is. I think I do 5 times as much DPS while in werewolf form. I can 1-2 hit most mobs at my level. World bosses melt like butter while I'm transformed.

You have to put this in relation.
For Soloplay you dont have any comparison. (which is ok, because you can battle how ever you want... hell you can even fistfight .

Take today`s daily (Elden Holow) for example. I did it random with some v16 guys/ladies. We had ~15 min. Endbossdps of both dd`s approximately 30k each. (And Magicka NB-heal did about 15k too)

Can you pull (with all buffs) this kind of Dps with werewolf too? (assuming you have a perfect setting/skill)

Well perhaps you can... but for how long?
You may be pulling 50k dps in 20 sec. But the over- all dmg done in this dungeon is way lower.

You have to count your breaks too. (for regaining Werewolf form, regenerate stamina... etc).

Yes, you can play as a werewolf. In fact... i grinded approximately 400`000`000 XP with it. You are not the fastest, but it somehow worked, because there where enough mobs and i had a good Heavy-attack-enough mob-ratio to never be out of stamina (with pots on cd).

But in the grand sceme of things you have to understand those, wich have to at least remotely compete with those 30k+ dps monsters. (And we are talking about over all dmg in a group dungeon, not only burst. AOE and sustained 2-5 minute fights in trials for example...).

If you are a dungeon-runner: You may love Werewolf because of the flair, but what group would you rather choose?

A: Group: 2x 30k dps with magicka detonation and all badass buffs (Need approx 15 min for 1 dungeon).

or

B: Group: 2x Werewolfs (or other dd`s) with ~10k dps each. (Need approx 45mins to 2hours, because you have additional boss mechanics wich will make it even harder/longer). (If you dps is to low, you have a hard time to compensate with tactics).
And after 30 tries, your Tank leaves the group... 2 hours for nothing...

Clearly... there are other considerations, (like buffs etc).

What i wanted to say: Even if you put yourself into it, the gap to "normal" players or advanced (or pro) is a to big of a percentage (Group A-B = 300% difference!!!). Even if you are a skilled player you will be suppar to average players by up to 100+% .
In random Dungeons i was grouped with Werewolfs (and other dd`s witch did 4-5k dps average). But all of you, wich run random dungeons know the catch... especially if you have scaled players.

All i ask, is the possibility to be at least a bit competitive/useful in pve if you do the following things:
- Advanced group play with other werewolfs (Yes, i am ok with the mandate to only be at the prime of your "usefulness" when other werewolfs are around.
- If you upgrade your gear to legendary (This should give you a boost)
- If you choose the "right" concept (aka gear/setup) for your werewolf, it should pay out to you and your group accordingly. Meaning: What you put in, you shall get out of it...
- L2P
==> If you min/max everything out, the difference to other players should not still be 100/200/300% ... but 10-20% . After all... we are supposed to play as we like right?
--> But instead we have to fight with ww timer, ressource management and other obstacles, before we can even think about beeing of relative use to a random group/competitive group/trial whatever.

The thing is: Zenimax is still thinking about Werewolf as an ultimate... and now, with this change, we see the direction aming in "full-furry-mode". So what is it now?
A PVP-Ultimate/gimmick or something you can build around an entire build?

Take this with a grain of salt. It is not my intention to start a "dps" discussion.

k9mouse

iam_slickone wrote: »

werewolf when used correctly can be very strong.

Sometimes, in human form, I can not or kill fast like in grinding. If I can change in WW form, I can solo / grind fast the same content. As long as some is hitting and I am killing them, I can stay WW indef amount of time. However, I can kill the NPCs so fast sometimes, I run out of NPCs to eat thus my WW timer ends.

I never got a problem getting Ultrament. I do not see an issue with the cost of it.

craybest

Werewolf is a huge DPS and survivality boost for me. I always save it for dungeon bosses, and I hardly ever die (while in human form I die a lot XD)
I'd love for a way for Werewolf form to last indefinitely outside of battle, both for fun and RP reasons.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Claws of Life or Feral Pounce needs a taunt rolled into it.

No reason at all that Werewolf shouldn't be a viable tanking option.

goatlyonesub17_ESO

My Khajiit nightblade character, Rissa Manyclaws, is a werewolf, but she never changes into that form anymore. She got wolfified only to max out the skill line and raise all the skills through one morph. Since then, she's reallocated her skill points, and the WW line didn't get any of them because her project now is to max out all weapon skills (level 50 and one morph per active/ultimate skill). That's why she does so much Rkindaleft just now. Once the weapon skills are finished, she'll go do Hews Bane and Thieves Guild. (Though, she's already been there and done the two world bosses and found all the relics for the TG cistern library.)

BomblePants

KanedaSyndrome wrote: »

You say for some it's not a major DPS increase, well for me it is. I think I do 5 times as much DPS while in werewolf form. I can 1-2 hit most mobs at my level. World bosses melt like butter while I'm transformed.

I totally agree.... it's a huge DPS increase for me - super powerful. And I think if you use all your passives the timer is about right - I can stay in form in some areas for at least 20 mins, no prob.

The thing is everyone is asking for more time in form but what will end up happening is WW will just end up nerfed....

ComboBreaker88

craybest wrote: »

Werewolf is a huge DPS and survivality boost for me. I always save it for dungeon bosses, and I hardly ever die (while in human form I die a lot XD)
I'd love for a way for Werewolf form to last indefinitely outside of battle, both for fun and RP reasons.

You use werewolf on dungeon bosses? WHAT? we're wolf is great for short burst dps. But overall flawless dawn breaker and stacking AoE/ DoT are the way to go hands down. If your whole group functions this way you can clear ANY dungeon in 15-20 min.

craybest

I meant for solo dungeons, not group ones that are longer. I'm just lv 37 for now

leepalmer95

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

craybest wrote: »

Werewolf is a huge DPS and survivality boost for me. I always save it for dungeon bosses, and I hardly ever die (while in human form I die a lot XD)
I'd love for a way for Werewolf form to last indefinitely outside of battle, both for fun and RP reasons.

You use werewolf on dungeon bosses? WHAT? we're wolf is great for short burst dps. But overall flawless dawn breaker and stacking AoE/ DoT are the way to go hands down. If your whole group functions this way you can clear ANY dungeon in 15-20 min.

If your whole group has enough dps you can kill bosses before your ww will run out.

Sogreth

I have my Ultimate cost down to 288, and it honestly still feels too high for what you get out of it. If it was a huge DPS increase, than yeah, okay. Maybe it could cost 300. But I could use much better Ultimates at a lower cost, so they will be up more often, and I can use them at least twice as much.

Some people have argued that it's a DPS increase. And it's not that I don't believe you, but it still doesn't merit a 300 cost.

LiquidSchwartz

I stayed in ww for about 1:15 without feeding because of the passive for taking damage and caltrops
Standing in an aoe is a double endged sword but ww is strong and can tank through it
Maybe youre not using ww right it isnt meant to be a spam lemme kill everything its a strategic advantage that nobody knows about and can be popped at any second

RedFireDisco

I'm not rolling a WW, but I have to agree the ultimate is way too steep. Honestly - I think all ultimates should be streamlined to the same cost.

Dawnbreaker is so cheap compared to meteor and Standard of might is another expensive drop.

The new direwolves are very cool hough and if you were a sorc pet build (for whatever reason) and you dropped the wolves ulitmate - Imagine running with four pets in your own little army.

Very nice.

RedFireDisco

*though*

Sogreth

LiquidSchwartz wrote: »

I stayed in ww for about 1:15 without feeding because of the passive for taking damage and caltrops
Standing in an aoe is a double endged sword but ww is strong and can tank through it
Maybe youre not using ww right it isnt meant to be a spam lemme kill everything its a strategic advantage that nobody knows about and can be popped at any second

Can't you see if people have the "Lycanthropy" passive?