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1h and shield skill line in DB

Mojmir
Mojmir
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One Hand and Shield
Defensive Stance (Defensive Posture morph): Fixed an issue where this morph’s stun effect would trigger on every reflection if you layered Defensive Stance with any other reflect ability.
Power Bash:
Increased the damage of this ability and its morphs by 85%, but it will no longer stun or disorient enemies hit.
Reduced the range of this ability and its morphs to the standard instant-cast melee range of 5 meters from 7 meters.
Power Slam (Power Bash morph): In addition to the changes made to the base ability, we redesigned this morph so while slotted, blocking an attack will increase the damage of your next Power Slam by 25% for 5 seconds.

will this skill line every be viable as DPS for end game?
looking over the trait redesigns,is it possible?
  • Tormy
    Tormy
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    Power slam needs the cc added back
  • sagitter
    sagitter
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    I can understand wreclking bow, but why removing stun from bash? this was the only usefull stamina cc for all classes , i think they are forcing tank to dps, that isn't a tank role. Now we have to depend on magicka cc, dk got fossilize, nb got fear, sorc got prison, templar got javelin, that is not so good, because is a projectile and often be reflected.This change hurts templars a bit more.
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    Tormy wrote: »
    Power slam needs the cc added back

    I agree. In PVE, as a tank, it's the best skill for taking hard hitting targets out of battle for 14+ seconds. Especially when I have to solo world bosses who have multiple targets to kill.
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
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    Tormy wrote: »
    Power slam needs the cc added back

    I agree. In PVE, as a tank, it's the best skill for taking hard hitting targets out of battle for 14+ seconds. Especially when I have to solo world bosses who have multiple targets to kill.

    The CC component is almost exclusively for solo questing and pvp. A pve tank has better options than this for a 14s CC. It's also counterproductive in any group setting to use hard CCs like this, because the CC is instantly broken by the group.

    Imho the fact that Power Bash now does comparable damage to Pierce Armor without the taunt component, it is definitely on my radar for a viable 1H&S dps build. I've already theorycrafted both bars and the gear, and I think it will work quite well.

    Looking a the big picture, we are seeing ESO take a shift closer to the "play how you want" mentality. I do not see this as a bad thing. As someone who pvps and pves, I can honestly say that there are so many other CC options, particularly class CCs, that are just as good or better than the hard CC from bash.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    sagitter wrote: »
    I can understand wreclking bow, but why removing stun from bash? this was the only usefull stamina cc for all classes , i think they are forcing tank to dps, that isn't a tank role. Now we have to depend on magicka cc, dk got fossilize, nb got fear, sorc got prison, templar got javelin, that is not so good, because is a projectile and often be reflected.This change hurts templars a bit more.

    It is a real shame I agree. There are a few stamina options for cc but they're class specific. Example: Binding Javelin, sneak attacks or ambushes, etc. I do admit being a bit curious about our new capacity to snare with the cleansing ritual morphs. I'm sad about the loss of the # of cleanses though, there are too many abilities which can do triple debuffs, and the Templar cleanse SHOULD have at least the option of removing one attack's worth of debuff. This reminds me though of other inequities like between Eclipse and Dragon Scales, or Power of the Light and Reapers/Piercing Mark. Some skills are obvious analogs of each other, and yet some are vastly superior than others. I do think that giving the snare to Cleansing Ritual though might be a very good start to equalizing the Templar class a bit, POSSIBLY even with the loss of those extra cleanses, though with its costs I'm not really sure. Defense costs more than offense in this game, and it seems like they keep making that more and more true. With the continual upward scaling of damage, I foresee this becoming a big problem in the game's balance if they don't give pause to this mindset or strategy. My gut feeling is that they might very well be doing so however.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • gamerguy757
    gamerguy757
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    I love these new updates. I'm working on a onehand/shield build with a 2h stamina nightblade utilizing the reflect and powerful bash moves. FULL ON OFFENSIVE NO CLOAK NIGHTBLADE!!! HIGH DAMAGE!!!!
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    I'm working pts with a redguard sword and board dps build,it's for lack of a better word,quaint.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    Autolycus wrote: »
    Tormy wrote: »
    Power slam needs the cc added back

    I agree. In PVE, as a tank, it's the best skill for taking hard hitting targets out of battle for 14+ seconds. Especially when I have to solo world bosses who have multiple targets to kill.

    The CC component is almost exclusively for solo questing and pvp. A pve tank has better options than this for a 14s CC. It's also counterproductive in any group setting to use hard CCs like this, because the CC is instantly broken by the group.

    Imho the fact that Power Bash now does comparable damage to Pierce Armor without the taunt component, it is definitely on my radar for a viable 1H&S dps build. I've already theorycrafted both bars and the gear, and I think it will work quite well.

    Looking a the big picture, we are seeing ESO take a shift closer to the "play how you want" mentality. I do not see this as a bad thing. As someone who pvps and pves, I can honestly say that there are so many other CC options, particularly class CCs, that are just as good or better than the hard CC from bash.

    I agree except when you consider Templar. I'm intrigued by the snare on cleansing ritual, but it is painful to see the loss of our 5-debuff cleanse. That really hurt. Templar cc is still extremely slushy with respect to other classes, but at least by giving us a large pbaoe snare it will punish people for getting in our house (potentially). I like that conceptually anyway, and I'm hopeful in this regard.

    I still feel Eclipse just needs an overhaul to be like defensive posture and reflective scales and be done with it. I think all reflects should be a % no higher than 50%, but give them a nice happy duration like 20-30 seconds to make it worth your while, and get rid of the # of reflects. In this way it would be punishing to ranged attackers, but randomly punishing. I also personally recommend they make it more like 25% reflect rate. These reflects are in my view overly punishing to ranged attackers. I hold the same view of the absorb function on a shield. Absorption should be a secondary effect with a CHANCE of operating, not a 100% chance. This is actually a problem I've seen a lot of Magplars complain about when fighting people who use annulment. Your jabs and other magicka skills simply feed your enemy and get soaked. I am not sure this is a good mechanic, and while I understand having a partial reflect/absorb, I think having the full 100% is broken in an environment with multiple players. 100% Reflect/Absorb should just be the realm of the immortals of renown such as the Nerevarine, The Hero of Kvatch, and the Dragonborn. I don't think its good to have this in multiplayer, and never have.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
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    Autolycus wrote: »
    Tormy wrote: »
    Power slam needs the cc added back

    I agree. In PVE, as a tank, it's the best skill for taking hard hitting targets out of battle for 14+ seconds. Especially when I have to solo world bosses who have multiple targets to kill.

    The CC component is almost exclusively for solo questing and pvp. A pve tank has better options than this for a 14s CC. It's also counterproductive in any group setting to use hard CCs like this, because the CC is instantly broken by the group.

    Imho the fact that Power Bash now does comparable damage to Pierce Armor without the taunt component, it is definitely on my radar for a viable 1H&S dps build. I've already theorycrafted both bars and the gear, and I think it will work quite well.

    Looking a the big picture, we are seeing ESO take a shift closer to the "play how you want" mentality. I do not see this as a bad thing. As someone who pvps and pves, I can honestly say that there are so many other CC options, particularly class CCs, that are just as good or better than the hard CC from bash.

    I agree except when you consider Templar. I'm intrigued by the snare on cleansing ritual, but it is painful to see the loss of our 5-debuff cleanse. That really hurt. Templar cc is still extremely slushy with respect to other classes, but at least by giving us a large pbaoe snare it will punish people for getting in our house (potentially). I like that conceptually anyway, and I'm hopeful in this regard.

    I still feel Eclipse just needs an overhaul to be like defensive posture and reflective scales and be done with it. I think all reflects should be a % no higher than 50%, but give them a nice happy duration like 20-30 seconds to make it worth your while, and get rid of the # of reflects. In this way it would be punishing to ranged attackers, but randomly punishing. I also personally recommend they make it more like 25% reflect rate. These reflects are in my view overly punishing to ranged attackers. I hold the same view of the absorb function on a shield. Absorption should be a secondary effect with a CHANCE of operating, not a 100% chance. This is actually a problem I've seen a lot of Magplars complain about when fighting people who use annulment. Your jabs and other magicka skills simply feed your enemy and get soaked. I am not sure this is a good mechanic, and while I understand having a partial reflect/absorb, I think having the full 100% is broken in an environment with multiple players. 100% Reflect/Absorb should just be the realm of the immortals of renown such as the Nerevarine, The Hero of Kvatch, and the Dragonborn. I don't think its good to have this in multiplayer, and never have.

    That's actually a very good point. I also find that eclipse needs to be overhauled. The concept of the skill is cool, and I've always liked the skill itself, but I find it seriously lacking in the "practical applications" department, and it's especially lacking when put next to the other hard CCs present in each of the other classes.

    I really like your suggestions for having eclipse with reflects, but specifically in the way you suggested it. I haven't put a great deal of thought into it yet, so I won't speak much on class balance with a change like this. But when we look at this suggestion by itself, I think it would afford a great deal of much-needed utility in the templar defensive lineup. On a side note, I really like the snare component, especially for purifying ritual. From a pvp perspective only, purifying ritual is one of those templar skills that is useful in either a magicka or stamina build, so adding the snare to it imho is fantastic. That being said, I'm with you on the purge component :(
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