Stam Sorc - Will there be Changes to Bound Armaments/Thundering Presence with the "Stamina Update"?

Birdovic

Title says all thats needed.
Do you think changes are incoming?
Maybe even for the frequently begged for change to Chrystal Frag Morph becoming a Stam based instant spammable?

Ahzek

Dont get your hopes up. That way you wont be disappointed.

Birdovic

Ahzek wrote: »

Dont get your hopes up. That way you wont be disappointed.

I know but...Hope, well, is all thats left for quiet some time now.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

Didaco

Like that guard told me 6482638 times: "expect the worst and you can only be pleasantly surprised!"

Sugaroverdose

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe even for the frequently begged for change to Chrystal Frag Morph becoming a Stam based instant spammable?

"Stam sorcs newer was OP, please make them OP for 3 month"

Iyas

No

EsoRecon

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

scrub go back to shield stacking

bloodenragedb14_ESO

EsoRecon wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

scrub go back to shield stacking

so, from your comment i suppose you wisj to invalidate my completely valid opinion by insulting me and lableing me something i may or may not be?

be constructive or say nothing at all

Mettaricana

I hope for new stam sorc options mostly just want stam morphs and a slotted bound armor effect or remove bound armor entirely add its passives to the skill line and make a new skill like bound weapons have it be a flat % dmg buff like crit surge only not rely on crits maybe applies magic dmg or armor ignore and reverse that effect for magica morph make it for raw smg rather than crit burst dps.

Emma_Overload

Is there ANY class other than Sorcerer that has to put up with all the backbiting crap from Magicka snobs? Seriously, do Stamplars have to endure a bunch of insults and jibes from their magic using brothers? Are Stamblades begrudged every single stamina morph by Magblades?

idk

No one who can answer your question will at this time.

Birdovic

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

scrub go back to shield stacking

so, from your comment i suppose you wisj to invalidate my completely valid opinion by insulting me and lableing me something i may or may not be?

be constructive or say nothing at all

As much as I Love The Lore:

This still Is a mmo Version of Our favourite Game Series. In The Elder scrolls universe and Lore, almost everything Is connected to magicka in any way.

So Going with your reasoning Is like
"Hey since Elder Scrolls Is about magic, The stamina based classes Should all suck and have no Chance to compete".

Thats not how it is. To make it fun for everyone(People have Different Playstyle/Taste), stamina Is also an absolutely valid option.


You Argument was simply useless just like The persons ranting you quoted.

And I want to let you know I Played a magicka sorc since Beta and nothing Else for about 1~ year. So this Is a neutral opinion.

Pallio

I think the most logic change is to make crystal frags other morph stam range ability, ie. temp spear.. but with sorc flare.... who knows what they will actually do though it could be great or underwhelming or make things worse.....

mistermutiny89

Welcomed Stam sorc changes:

- Stam Frags (replaces aoe shards that no-one uses)
instant cast, same damage output as surprise attack, stuns when enemy is affected by lightning proc, dark magic Passives do the rest, 8 meter range

- Stam Curse (replaces pet morph that people rarely use)
(sorry ZoS, I know you love your pet builds but there's barely room for this ability with pets on bar)
Adds major defile, brings burst to the build that magicka sorcs have, deals poison damage

- Thundering Presence
lower the Stam cost, up the dot damage, removes snares

- bound armaments
Perfect as is.

Job done for you ZoS. Now get implementing.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

scrub go back to shield stacking

so, from your comment i suppose you wisj to invalidate my completely valid opinion by insulting me and lableing me something i may or may not be?

be constructive or say nothing at all

As much as I Love The Lore:

This still Is a mmo Version of Our favourite Game Series. In The Elder scrolls universe and Lore, almost everything Is connected to magicka in any way.

So Going with your reasoning Is like
"Hey since Elder Scrolls Is about magic, The stamina based classes Should all suck and have no Chance to compete".

Thats not how it is. To make it fun for everyone(People have Different Playstyle/Taste), stamina Is also an absolutely valid option.


You Argument was simply useless just like The persons ranting you quoted.

And I want to let you know I Played a magicka sorc since Beta and nothing Else for about 1~ year. So this Is a neutral opinion.

my opinion is valid, but it goes deeper than just some balance changes

there was a hundred ways zos could have made stamina classes, and make them good and completly valid, but for some reason, they decided to butcher the lore surrounding classes and put in classes mired in magicka, rather than throwing out the class idea entirly, or some other way.

my grievance is not with balance, not wholly, but with the way classes were done to begin with, i will always be disatified with it.

the classes, as they are now, upon their name in most of the skills, most who see these classes and what they do know pretty much from the get go what their main resource is. the game gives you the ability to make different builds within classes, thats fine, but they should always pale to the original purpose of the class.

sorcerer=mage
templar=healer
dragonknight=tank
nightblade=thief/assassin

im not saying you shouldnt have variety, but you shouldnt call to make a class something its not, thats why they are classes
each class is good at some things, while others are bad at the same things
this whole issue of balance is far to overrated

Averya_Teira

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

scrub go back to shield stacking

so, from your comment i suppose you wisj to invalidate my completely valid opinion by insulting me and lableing me something i may or may not be?

be constructive or say nothing at all

As much as I Love The Lore:

This still Is a mmo Version of Our favourite Game Series. In The Elder scrolls universe and Lore, almost everything Is connected to magicka in any way.

So Going with your reasoning Is like
"Hey since Elder Scrolls Is about magic, The stamina based classes Should all suck and have no Chance to compete".

Thats not how it is. To make it fun for everyone(People have Different Playstyle/Taste), stamina Is also an absolutely valid option.


You Argument was simply useless just like The persons ranting you quoted.

And I want to let you know I Played a magicka sorc since Beta and nothing Else for about 1~ year. So this Is a neutral opinion.

my opinion is valid, but it goes deeper than just some balance changes

there was a hundred ways zos could have made stamina classes, and make them good and completly valid, but for some reason, they decided to butcher the lore surrounding classes and put in classes mired in magicka, rather than throwing out the class idea entirly, or some other way.

my grievance is not with balance, not wholly, but with the way classes were done to begin with, i will always be disatified with it.

the classes, as they are now, upon their name in most of the skills, most who see these classes and what they do know pretty much from the get go what their main resource is. the game gives you the ability to make different builds within classes, thats fine, but they should always pale to the original purpose of the class.

sorcerer=mage
templar=healer
dragonknight=tank
nightblade=thief/assassin

im not saying you shouldnt have variety, but you shouldnt call to make a class something its not, thats why they are classes
each class is good at some things, while others are bad at the same things
this whole issue of balance is far to overrated

What's wrong with this is that the game was marketed as "play how you want, you can be anything". That implies (for intelligent people) that all REALISTIC (things like stamblade using destro staff or magicka DK using only DW skills, etc obviously don't work) variations should be competitive.

STEVIL

Ok, so for frags is the idea to take away from mag sorc the current morph with its chance of instant cast low cost OR to remove the aoe blast version AND replace them with a spamming, instant cast stamina based one?

WTH?

Did a mag sorc kick your dog?

Why not instead a morph for the bound armor toggle that sets all sorc class abilities to use sta, scale off sta, etc?

Birdovic

STEVIL wrote: »

A ) Ok, so for frags is the idea to take away from mag sorc the current morph with its chance of instant cast low cost OR to remove the aoe blast version AND replace them with a spamming, instant cast stamina based one?

WTH?

B )Did a mag sorc kick your dog?

C ) Why not instead a morph for the bound armor toggle that sets all sorc class abilities to use sta, scale off sta, etc?

A ) The often mentioned idea is to change the almost never ever used AoE Blast one into a instant cast stamina based one (which doesnt have to be strong like a chrystal frag and have much less range)

B ) I have a cat, and no, nobody kicked it. And why should it be a Mag sorc doing that anyway?

C ) Sounds like a really interesting idea

Ajax_22

STEVIL wrote: »

Ok, so for frags is the idea to take away from mag sorc the current morph with its chance of instant cast low cost OR to remove the aoe blast version AND replace them with a spamming, instant cast stamina based one?

WTH?

Did a mag sorc kick your dog?

Why not instead a morph for the bound armor toggle that sets all sorc class abilities to use sta, scale off sta, etc?

I've mained a Magicka Sorcerer since I stared playing this game, and this "Stam Sorcs tryin to takes my stuff" outrage from Magic Sorcs is just ridiculous. It's not like Stam Sorcs are asking for one of our Lighting Splash, or Mages' Fury morphs. Daedric Prey and Crystal Blast aren't used by anyone that spends more than a minute actually learning their class. Giving Stam Sorcs these morphs would do absolutely nothing to us. Additionally, If I was a Stam Sorc I would be completely insulted that ZOS updated Crystal Blast, last patch, and didn't make it a Stam morph. Hell I'm a Magic Sorc, and I'm insulted that they actually wasted dev time on updating that skill to something as equally useless as before.

acw37162

Stam sorc wish list.

Overload morph that scales off weapon damage and gives back stamina also grants major savagery when slotted

Thundering presences gets a change that allows it scale off thamaturge and mighty and all major expedition buffs are changed to six seconds when skill is maxed out.

Either crystal blast or the little used morph of lightening fury gets a stam version.

The 2H meta is changed by buffing bow, DW, S&S.

A stamina version of mines or restraining prison.

Crit surge imbuing your weapon attacks with lightening damage.

Would also like to see what they are talking about dragon knights where skills are being suggested at being made poison damage to get the mighty buff from the CP, for dragon knights poison damage has been suggested I am not sure what stam sorcs could do but it would be a nice buff to get more from your CP

CP5

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

EsoRecon wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

here is a challenge, barring eso, dig into lore, look for combat spells that use stamina, you find enough to make a viable build

i will always oppose the 'staminization' of sorcerer skills

scrub go back to shield stacking

so, from your comment i suppose you wisj to invalidate my completely valid opinion by insulting me and lableing me something i may or may not be?

be constructive or say nothing at all

As much as I Love The Lore:

This still Is a mmo Version of Our favourite Game Series. In The Elder scrolls universe and Lore, almost everything Is connected to magicka in any way.

So Going with your reasoning Is like
"Hey since Elder Scrolls Is about magic, The stamina based classes Should all suck and have no Chance to compete".

Thats not how it is. To make it fun for everyone(People have Different Playstyle/Taste), stamina Is also an absolutely valid option.


You Argument was simply useless just like The persons ranting you quoted.

And I want to let you know I Played a magicka sorc since Beta and nothing Else for about 1~ year. So this Is a neutral opinion.

my opinion is valid, but it goes deeper than just some balance changes

there was a hundred ways zos could have made stamina classes, and make them good and completly valid, but for some reason, they decided to butcher the lore surrounding classes and put in classes mired in magicka, rather than throwing out the class idea entirly, or some other way.

my grievance is not with balance, not wholly, but with the way classes were done to begin with, i will always be disatified with it.

the classes, as they are now, upon their name in most of the skills, most who see these classes and what they do know pretty much from the get go what their main resource is. the game gives you the ability to make different builds within classes, thats fine, but they should always pale to the original purpose of the class.

sorcerer=mage
templar=healer
dragonknight=tank
nightblade=thief/assassin

im not saying you shouldnt have variety, but you shouldnt call to make a class something its not, thats why they are classes
each class is good at some things, while others are bad at the same things
this whole issue of balance is far to overrated

This is ESO, the classes were never designed to be locked into tiny little corners and told off whenever they tried to do otherwise. Should all templars suffer because they are the "healer" class and therefore should not be bale to step outside of that? And speaking on lore, have you even read what defines the sorcerer class in all installments of elder scrolls games? I can tell you that they are the class best suited to be wearing heavy armor out of all of them. Oh, and as for the 'past games with spells that cost stamina', this is the first mmo for the series, up until this point you only needed stamina for physical activities and magicka for spells, in an mmo setting you have flashy abilities, are stamina users supposed to not use abilities and only use directional heavy attacks, blocking and bashing?

dodgehopper_ESO

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Is there ANY class other than Sorcerer that has to put up with all the backbiting crap from Magicka snobs? Seriously, do Stamplars have to endure a bunch of insults and jibes from their magic using brothers? Are Stamblades begrudged every single stamina morph by Magblades?

We get some of it, but not as much. It is in my view pretty stupid how people assume that Sorcerer means you can only wear a robe and hold a staff like Gandalf. If they were familiar with the class in Oblivion/Morrowind they would realize that the Stam Sorc is probably more like the class it is based from.

On the topic of Stamina Frags, you have a big problem with the way the passive are laid out. I actually really like Stamina Sorcerer. It is so mobile and aggressive, and the passives are nice although you lack in shields. I personally think that hardened ward should be based on health. I know a lot of people freak out when I say that, it raises hackles as well I'm sure. The thing is I think they ought to equalize shields and balance them, and they ought to make Crit Surge better. It should be at least as good as Rally. If they did that I doubt people would complain. The other problem with giving Sorc Stamina Spammables is that the class gets added weapon/spell damage for every class skill slotted. This would be an uneven balance, and I think its why they've held off in that regard.

On the matter of toggles: I hate them. I'd love to see them get rid of all toggles. I'd love to see all passives benefit you whether its on back or front bar (This is a wild suggestion I realize, and would require some serious balancing considerations on their part, but I have a lot of reasons why I think they should do this, and to be honest I am just too tired to back this up. The main reasoning though is that it would allow for more variety on such a minimal bar selection). I also think that overload should probably not get a bar of its own either, in this scenario.

PainfulFAFA

Things that need to be adjusted/fixed for stam sorc:

Overload. (needs to scale off of stam, add physical penetration)

Lightning Form. (buff the timer, lower the cost)

Crystal blast. (Wrobel, how can u create something like and then go on to say that you can use this to stop an incoming zerg? Dude, play the game for crying out loud. Nobody uses it. Not Viable for anything as long as it has a cast time. Trash this ability and add Crystal punch already..)

Deceptive_Yoshi

Imagine a crystal frag morph where it's exactly the same as the current except it procs and scales off of stamina stuff.

CaptainBeerDude

Mettaricana wrote: »

I hope for new stam sorc options mostly just want stam morphs and a slotted bound armor effect or remove bound armor entirely add its passives to the skill line and make a new skill like bound weapons have it be a flat % dmg buff like crit surge only not rely on crits maybe applies magic dmg or armor ignore and reverse that effect for magica morph make it for raw smg rather than crit burst dps.

I like. Change BA into Bound Weapons. 8% stam buff and lightning damage scaled off weapon damage to all weapon attacks.

CaptainBeerDude

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Is there ANY class other than Sorcerer that has to put up with all the backbiting crap from Magicka snobs? Seriously, do Stamplars have to endure a bunch of insults and jibes from their magic using brothers? Are Stamblades begrudged every single stamina morph by Magblades?

We get some of it, but not as much. It is in my view pretty stupid how people assume that Sorcerer means you can only wear a robe and hold a staff like Gandalf. If they were familiar with the class in Oblivion/Morrowind they would realize that the Stam Sorc is probably more like the class it is based from.

On the topic of Stamina Frags, you have a big problem with the way the passive are laid out. I actually really like Stamina Sorcerer. It is so mobile and aggressive, and the passives are nice although you lack in shields. I personally think that hardened ward should be based on health. I know a lot of people freak out when I say that, it raises hackles as well I'm sure. The thing is I think they ought to equalize shields and balance them, and they ought to make Crit Surge better. It should be at least as good as Rally. If they did that I doubt people would complain. The other problem with giving Sorc Stamina Spammables is that the class gets added weapon/spell damage for every class skill slotted. This would be an uneven balance, and I think its why they've held off in that regard.

On the matter of toggles: I hate them. I'd love to see them get rid of all toggles. I'd love to see all passives benefit you whether its on back or front bar (This is a wild suggestion I realize, and would require some serious balancing considerations on their part, but I have a lot of reasons why I think they should do this, and to be honest I am just too tired to back this up. The main reasoning though is that it would allow for more variety on such a minimal bar selection). I also think that overload should probably not get a bar of its own either, in this scenario.

Not back bar. Imagine everyone dropping the second weapon and just running buffs. I'm sure some builds would be hugely unbalanced with this.

Having written this, I kinda want it now...

sneakymitchell

It's funny that some enemies in the Imperial city are stam sorcs. I wonder why no one talk about them in why they make enemies such as those. I don't know what are they called the xvikyin something. With hammer I think. (sorry with the spelling of the name of the daedra.) I can't find an imagine of them. They are the ones with the lighting form and two hander weapon.

CaptainBeerDude

sneakymitchell wrote: »

It's funny that some enemies in the Imperial city are stam sorcs. I wonder why no one talk about them in why they make enemies such as those. I don't know what are they called the xvikyin something. With hammer I think. (sorry with the spelling of the name of the daedra.) I can't find an imagine of them. They are the ones with the lighting form and two hander weapon.

Pretty standard melee enemy. Usually have a cone AoE and a circle AoE. Always in HA with a 2H.

Birdovic

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

On the matter of toggles: I hate them. I'd love to see them get rid of all toggles. I'd love to see all passives benefit you whether its on back or front bar (This is a wild suggestion I realize, and would require some serious balancing considerations on their part, but I have a lot of reasons why I think they should do this, and to be honest I am just too tired to back this up. The main reasoning though is that it would allow for more variety on such a minimal bar selection). I also think that overload should probably not get a bar of its own either, in this scenario.

@dodgehopper_ESO

As someone already pointed it out, I think people would just use the 2nd bar for stacking tons of buffs and embracing the wonderful dps creep meta even more, so I doubt its a good idea.

But I had a different idea:

Since toggles just take too many slots away while we have too few already, it could be done like this:

1. Let every class have atleast access to 3 useful toggles (includes Magesguild)
2. Add a new slot next to Ultimate (for each weapon bar)
3. Let this slot only be used for toggles

With some balancing (Im almost scared to use this word anymore lol),
every class will have more possibilities and (especially interesting for Stam Sorc) more VARIETY to be played.

dodgehopper_ESO

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

On the matter of toggles: I hate them. I'd love to see them get rid of all toggles. I'd love to see all passives benefit you whether its on back or front bar (This is a wild suggestion I realize, and would require some serious balancing considerations on their part, but I have a lot of reasons why I think they should do this, and to be honest I am just too tired to back this up. The main reasoning though is that it would allow for more variety on such a minimal bar selection). I also think that overload should probably not get a bar of its own either, in this scenario.

@dodgehopper_ESO

As someone already pointed it out, I think people would just use the 2nd bar for stacking tons of buffs and embracing the wonderful dps creep meta even more, so I doubt its a good idea.

But I had a different idea:

Since toggles just take too many slots away while we have too few already, it could be done like this:

1. Let every class have atleast access to 3 useful toggles (includes Magesguild)
2. Add a new slot next to Ultimate (for each weapon bar)
3. Let this slot only be used for toggles

With some balancing (Im almost scared to use this word anymore lol),
every class will have more possibilities and (especially interesting for Stam Sorc) more VARIETY to be played.

A Toggle only slot is certainly interesting, but you still would need an active skill to activate many of them. This could still make it so your off bar's passives would effect you. I'm not averse to the idea, as it fits some suggestions I've made regarding a selection of passives for a character. I think they should be significantly limiting though, which means you'd need an actual choice. Some classes don't get toggles.