Is PvP broken?

ParaNostram

Unpopular opinion time! I don't think PvP in Cyrodiil is broken! It can be improved, no doubt, but I find it very rewarding and enjoyable. I see a variety of builds of every class when I am on working together to push things forward. I am seeing players rewarded for smart and tactical decisions mid battle (such as using line of sight, knowing when to push forward and when to swap to your defensive bar) and punished for being too greedy//getting tunnel vision. Loading screen time is down dramatically. Keep in mind, I play this game on high graphical settings with a $500 laptop.

I have seen great zergs left with only a few survivors desperately trying to limp to safety based on the efforts of a few smart zerg bombers.

I have seen zerg bombers completely fail as a group reacts quickly and survives.

I have seen tanks actually tank in PvP, holding the attention of their enemies and refusing to go down without a fight.

I have seen night blades pick off soft targets at the sides and rear of battles, and coordinated groups tearing down healers in the thick of it all.

I have seen casters of ever persuasion punishing people for even trying to approach them when they have the high ground.

I have seen every class fill ever role imaginable out there in the heated battles of Cyrodiil, and I have beaten every imaginable class and role and been beaten by every imaginable class and role by merit of skill, smart play, and luck.

Point being, this game does reward smart play. This game offers an in and an out to every feature and ability implemented. Flavor of the patch builds can be thwarted with understanding of how they're played and where their weakness is. Builds can be well rounded jack of all trade builds or be highly specialized and the game offers incentives for both. The game isn't perfect, but it's much better than people act like it is.

So yeah, the next time you complain about a balance issue, stop a moment and consider every possible angle. Did they line of sight me better? Did they us the terrain to their advantage? Is there a way I can learn better how to play? Were they just better than me? Was their build designed to counter mine? I feel as though if we all do this after every death in Cyrodiil, we'll all become much better PvPers and have a better time.

Anywho, that was just my rant on my unpopular opinion. Please, I invite your thoughts both in agreement and disagreement, but please keep it civil!

-Para Nostram

Sardath

People always think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I'm very new to ESO, came from GW2 due to a content drought. Back there, people used to give ESO as an example of proper patching and dev communication, even compared their RvR(called World vs World) to your PvP. Here, people complain about all these things.

Simply put, everywhere is roughly the same. The doomsayers and armchair developers will always say that the game is dying/in a bad state or that the devs have no idea what they're doing. On every MMO forum, you'll hear the exact same complaints.

And all the mindless ranting hurts the game a lot more than people realize. The reason for the "is ESO worth playing now?" posts is the bad reputation the game got in its early stages(a reason why I didn't touch it for two years). New people are put off because of exaggerations like "pvp is unplayable/the dlc is garbage/the devs never listen" and this only hurts the game in the long run.

Sure, criticism is important and the community must be vocal about the issues, but it needs to be portrayed in a realistic and useful way - for both developers and potential readers. Mindlessly yelling "the game is garbage" doesn't help anyone.

As a new player, I have no idea/saying of the state of the PvP. But I'm sure as hell it isn't as bad as people claim it to be.

Arenas or Battlegrounds would be nice though ._.

Van_0S

@Sardath, once you reach the game cap then you will know why the others post negative about this game.....
Its not about hating the devs or game but the opposite.
Well, for me I will be back in this game when DB is released.( provided DB is not disappointing.......)

krathos

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

@Sardath, once you reach the game cap then you will know why the others post negative about this game.....
Its not about hating the devs or game but the opposite.
Well, for me I will be back in this game when DB is released.( provided DB is not disappointing.......)

See you in the patch after DB! maybe

Sardath wrote: »

People always think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I'm very new to ESO, came from GW2 due to a content drought. Back there, people used to give ESO as an example of proper patching and dev communication, even compared their RvR(called World vs World) to your PvP. Here, people complain about all these things.

Simply put, everywhere is roughly the same. The doomsayers and armchair developers will always say that the game is dying/in a bad state or that the devs have no idea what they're doing. On every MMO forum, you'll hear the exact same complaints.

And all the mindless ranting hurts the game a lot more than people realize. The reason for the "is ESO worth playing now?" posts is the bad reputation the game got in its early stages(a reason why I didn't touch it for two years). New people are put off because of exaggerations like "pvp is unplayable/the dlc is garbage/the devs never listen" and this only hurts the game in the long run.

Sure, criticism is important and the community must be vocal about the issues, but it needs to be portrayed in a realistic and useful way - for both developers and potential readers. Mindlessly yelling "the game is garbage" doesn't help anyone.

As a new player, I have no idea/saying of the state of the PvP. But I'm sure as hell it isn't as bad as people claim it to be.

Arenas or Battlegrounds would be nice though ._.

You're new here so I don't expect you to fully understand... but some of us have been in this game for over 2 years now. We've gone through change after change, fix after fix, only to be left disappointed. We love Elder Scrolls and we see the huge potential this game has - that's why we stick around. If this game were a fresh title (not coming from an existing and successful franchise) it would have been dead on arrival. People are vocal here because they are passionate and because we receive no empathy for the frustrations we have been put through.

The game is 2 years old now and yet we still have:
- Massive ping in Cyrodiil during prime time.
- Bugged abilities such as gap closers which simply don't work 25% of the time at least.
- Old bugs that were fixed over a year ago that reappear with a new DLC - such as the DK wings resource drain bug.
- Horrible attempts at balance and fixing core mechanic issues with gear sets.
- Loads of exploits
- Bugged issues with CC such as getting double CC'd or certain CC stacking when they shouldn't.
- New content that when introduced is a shell of what was promised to us. Hell PC players went almost a full year with no new content at all so they could prepare their console launch.
- Mounts that randomly slow when you run
- They literally accidentally broke the whole games entire run speed by 10-15% (and finally admitted to it)
- Issues with armor styles (such as shoulder pads floating in the air above your character or their decision to not make any female armor models for any future styles)

That's not to mention balance issues between classes, PvE issues with VMA (which I can't speak of first hand), a lack of communication when it comes to anything that is "wrong" with the game.

This game is great until you reach max level. It seems they've ironed out most of the issues until then. The combat is fun and engaging but if you stick around long enough you will see that this game is more flawed than most at their 2 year anniversary.

A perfect example was the 2 year anniversary itself. They introduced this limited time cake memento to give you a 100% exp boost. They stated right off the bat that it would stack with all other forms of exp bonus (such as the scrolls you can buy in their lovely store). But, as a perfect reminder of the state of the game, it was bugged and many people spent real dollars buying scrolls that didn't work - and while they hotfixed the issue after a couple days and extended the duration of the gift they did not refund anyone's money or scrolls spent due to their own error.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

I have been here since beta. For the first eighteen months, I was strictly PVE /RP. Due to some things on the RP side and the fact that IC was coming out, I decided to try PVP. I have played PVP every day for hours at a time. Overall, I still enjoy it thanks to the wonderful guild that I joined. The people make a difference. If you get good people around you, then things work even if you are having 2 fps and lag making it impossible to switch bars. You get out of a game the exact that you are willing to put into it. I have six veteran rank characters, two who are V16. Yes, the performance of the server could be better. It could be more balanced. It is a work in progress. There are those who try their best to make the game unenjoyable on every faction in every aspect of the game. You just can't let the elitists destroy your own experience. You learn and adapt to the changes that occur. Half of the fun of anything is in the learning new things.

Am I making excuses for ZOS. No, they could have done some of the things much better. However, on the flip side, things could be much worse. The game has changed dramatically since beta. It is not the same game as it was 3 months ago let alone two years ago. There is both good and bad. I have been hoping that some of the Negative Nellies would find somewhere else to go, but then again, they have as much right to be here as I do. I am not going to let them destroy my enjoyment of the game. In time, things will change again. ZOS has already stated that they are working on arenas for the future. While I prefer to run with my guild, I might try out the arena. Overall, dueling has no interest for me. I play a healer so I am used to a support role, not a main combatant.

Sugaroverdose

Sardath wrote: »

People always think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I'm very new to ESO, came from GW2 due to a content drought. Back there, people used to give ESO as an example of proper patching and dev communication, even compared their RvR(called World vs World) to your PvP. Here, people complain about all these things.

Simply put, everywhere is roughly the same. The doomsayers and armchair developers will always say that the game is dying/in a bad state or that the devs have no idea what they're doing. On every MMO forum, you'll hear the exact same complaints.

And all the mindless ranting hurts the game a lot more than people realize. The reason for the "is ESO worth playing now?" posts is the bad reputation the game got in its early stages(a reason why I didn't touch it for two years). New people are put off because of exaggerations like "pvp is unplayable/the dlc is garbage/the devs never listen" and this only hurts the game in the long run.

Sure, criticism is important and the community must be vocal about the issues, but it needs to be portrayed in a realistic and useful way - for both developers and potential readers. Mindlessly yelling "the game is garbage" doesn't help anyone.

As a new player, I have no idea/saying of the state of the PvP. But I'm sure as hell it isn't as bad as people claim it to be.

Arenas or Battlegrounds would be nice though ._.

Game get hurt when dev's do not fix issues what people complain about. Game reputation is connected to overall quality and if dev's don't want to invest into it, it's not players problem.
Mindless 'game is garbage' could come when game doesn't really have game-breaking issues, or such issues get fixed asap, now - zeni don't do anything about proxydetvd effectiveness vs small groups, didn't fixed toppling charge, didn't fixed camohunter, console patch wich should at least fix DK scales doesn't even have schedule, while this bug is well known two weeks before TG console release.

At least zenimax may learn on their mistakes.

Whatzituyah

Depends on your definition of broken. Its definitely not in pieces and theirs a mix of people saying its fine or not fine. That means that whether or not Cyrodil is working properly is questionable and up for debate which is I guess why were here.

ParaNostram

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Sardath wrote: »

People always think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I'm very new to ESO, came from GW2 due to a content drought. Back there, people used to give ESO as an example of proper patching and dev communication, even compared their RvR(called World vs World) to your PvP. Here, people complain about all these things.

Simply put, everywhere is roughly the same. The doomsayers and armchair developers will always say that the game is dying/in a bad state or that the devs have no idea what they're doing. On every MMO forum, you'll hear the exact same complaints.

And all the mindless ranting hurts the game a lot more than people realize. The reason for the "is ESO worth playing now?" posts is the bad reputation the game got in its early stages(a reason why I didn't touch it for two years). New people are put off because of exaggerations like "pvp is unplayable/the dlc is garbage/the devs never listen" and this only hurts the game in the long run.

Sure, criticism is important and the community must be vocal about the issues, but it needs to be portrayed in a realistic and useful way - for both developers and potential readers. Mindlessly yelling "the game is garbage" doesn't help anyone.

As a new player, I have no idea/saying of the state of the PvP. But I'm sure as hell it isn't as bad as people claim it to be.

Arenas or Battlegrounds would be nice though ._.

Game get hurt when dev's do not fix issues what people complain about. Game reputation is connected to overall quality and if dev's don't want to invest into it, it's not players problem.
Mindless 'game is garbage' could come when game doesn't really have game-breaking issues, or such issues get fixed asap, now - zeni don't do anything about proxydetvd effectiveness vs small groups, didn't fixed toppling charge, didn't fixed camohunter, console patch wich should at least fix DK scales doesn't even have schedule, while this bug is well known two weeks before TG console release.

At least zenimax may learn on their mistakes.

I've seen proxy det vs small groups, I've seen it work and I've seen it fall apart. The difference? Smart groups know not to bunch up. Countering proxy det is as simple as just spreading out. It's not hard to do, see the red circle and immediately dodge roll away from the center of the group. What camo hunter glitch are you talking about? I play three DKs, not aware of any trouble with them, and i get toppling charged effectively all the time. Either you have poor luck or I have amazing luck to have never encountered these issues you speak of.

But yeah, the constant call for nerfing of things is kind of amusing honestly. Proxy det vicious death is a zerg deterrent, it works as intended. You clump up, you will likely die. If you spread out, it's pretty well countered. It's a clever way to punish mistakes (see my original post).

Other moves like Wrecking Blow spam? Well, that's the easiest. Take a step forward, or back, or line of sight. Too easy.

Jesus beam? Swap to your defensive bar, keep your health above half and it's doing next to nothing but keeping your opponent from using actually damaging attacks. Or CC them.

Everything has a counter. You just have to find it.

Sardath

@krathos , I'm not trying to say that the game doesn't have issues. I'm pretty sure it has plenty of em - but it's the same everywhere. People that want to abandon the game due to these issues will have the unfortunate surprise of finding them in the next game. Once the novelty wears off, you see the underlining issues - I'll surely see them soon here as well.

Best thing you can do is play the strengths of the game and vote with your wallet/time.

Edit: for the bugs, ZOS should probably consider implementing a bug tracler like this, if it doesn't already have one. It shows all the known issues and in what state the fix is. The extra communication is always welcome.

Jultzy

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Sardath wrote: »

People always think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I'm very new to ESO, came from GW2 due to a content drought. Back there, people used to give ESO as an example of proper patching and dev communication, even compared their RvR(called World vs World) to your PvP. Here, people complain about all these things.

Simply put, everywhere is roughly the same. The doomsayers and armchair developers will always say that the game is dying/in a bad state or that the devs have no idea what they're doing. On every MMO forum, you'll hear the exact same complaints.

And all the mindless ranting hurts the game a lot more than people realize. The reason for the "is ESO worth playing now?" posts is the bad reputation the game got in its early stages(a reason why I didn't touch it for two years). New people are put off because of exaggerations like "pvp is unplayable/the dlc is garbage/the devs never listen" and this only hurts the game in the long run.

Sure, criticism is important and the community must be vocal about the issues, but it needs to be portrayed in a realistic and useful way - for both developers and potential readers. Mindlessly yelling "the game is garbage" doesn't help anyone.

As a new player, I have no idea/saying of the state of the PvP. But I'm sure as hell it isn't as bad as people claim it to be.

Arenas or Battlegrounds would be nice though ._.

Game get hurt when dev's do not fix issues what people complain about. Game reputation is connected to overall quality and if dev's don't want to invest into it, it's not players problem.
Mindless 'game is garbage' could come when game doesn't really have game-breaking issues, or such issues get fixed asap, now - zeni don't do anything about proxydetvd effectiveness vs small groups, didn't fixed toppling charge, didn't fixed camohunter, console patch wich should at least fix DK scales doesn't even have schedule, while this bug is well known two weeks before TG console release.

At least zenimax may learn on their mistakes.

The players rarely knows what they want. World of Warcraft is a great example of that.

When it comes to fixing bugs it's always a mix, if you spend too much time trying to fix them people will complian the lack of new content. If you spend too much time with making new content people will complain on the bugs etc. It has a lot to do with their staff and budget. The more people you have working for you the easier it is. But for that to happen you need money and it's all connected.

ESO could probobly be better but as said before it could aswell be a lot worse. It's hard to tell unless you actually work there.

Ayalaya

People seems personally offended when they get killed in pvp. They can't understand that it is their own inability that gets them killed, not the game, so they go to the forums and start a rant. But they are not leaving, they probably love the game as much as everyone else. Just that someone must remind them. Like you do OP

hoaxburnrwb17_ESO

ParaNostram wrote: »

Unpopular opinion time! I don't think PvP in Cyrodiil is broken! It can be improved, no doubt, but I find it very rewarding and enjoyable. I see a variety of builds of every class when I am on working together to push things forward. I am seeing players rewarded for smart and tactical decisions mid battle (such as using line of sight, knowing when to push forward and when to swap to your defensive bar) and punished for being too greedy//getting tunnel vision. Loading screen time is down dramatically. Keep in mind, I play this game on high graphical settings with a $500 laptop.

I have seen great zergs left with only a few survivors desperately trying to limp to safety based on the efforts of a few smart zerg bombers.

I have seen zerg bombers completely fail as a group reacts quickly and survives.

I have seen tanks actually tank in PvP, holding the attention of their enemies and refusing to go down without a fight.

I have seen night blades pick off soft targets at the sides and rear of battles, and coordinated groups tearing down healers in the thick of it all.

I have seen casters of ever persuasion punishing people for even trying to approach them when they have the high ground.

I have seen every class fill ever role imaginable out there in the heated battles of Cyrodiil, and I have beaten every imaginable class and role and been beaten by every imaginable class and role by merit of skill, smart play, and luck.

Point being, this game does reward smart play. This game offers an in and an out to every feature and ability implemented. Flavor of the patch builds can be thwarted with understanding of how they're played and where their weakness is. Builds can be well rounded jack of all trade builds or be highly specialized and the game offers incentives for both. The game isn't perfect, but it's much better than people act like it is.

So yeah, the next time you complain about a balance issue, stop a moment and consider every possible angle. Did they line of sight me better? Did they us the terrain to their advantage? Is there a way I can learn better how to play? Were they just better than me? Was their build designed to counter mine? I feel as though if we all do this after every death in Cyrodiil, we'll all become much better PvPers and have a better time.

Anywho, that was just my rant on my unpopular opinion. Please, I invite your thoughts both in agreement and disagreement, but please keep it civil!

-Para Nostram

hmmm everything you see sounds like a real medieval war battle to me. ever seen them movies where you have one guy killing hundreds while everyone around him dies? or two guys going at it while in the background there a huge clash going on? or how about lord of the rings one archer killing hundreds or a little dwarf taking out hundreds with his axe? well it's exactly what I see in cyrodiil pvp and people are complaining about it?

sadownik

hoaxburnrwb17_ESO wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Unpopular opinion time! I don't think PvP in Cyrodiil is broken! It can be improved, no doubt, but I find it very rewarding and enjoyable. I see a variety of builds of every class when I am on working together to push things forward. I am seeing players rewarded for smart and tactical decisions mid battle (such as using line of sight, knowing when to push forward and when to swap to your defensive bar) and punished for being too greedy//getting tunnel vision. Loading screen time is down dramatically. Keep in mind, I play this game on high graphical settings with a $500 laptop.

I have seen great zergs left with only a few survivors desperately trying to limp to safety based on the efforts of a few smart zerg bombers.

I have seen zerg bombers completely fail as a group reacts quickly and survives.

I have seen tanks actually tank in PvP, holding the attention of their enemies and refusing to go down without a fight.

I have seen night blades pick off soft targets at the sides and rear of battles, and coordinated groups tearing down healers in the thick of it all.

I have seen casters of ever persuasion punishing people for even trying to approach them when they have the high ground.

I have seen every class fill ever role imaginable out there in the heated battles of Cyrodiil, and I have beaten every imaginable class and role and been beaten by every imaginable class and role by merit of skill, smart play, and luck.

Point being, this game does reward smart play. This game offers an in and an out to every feature and ability implemented. Flavor of the patch builds can be thwarted with understanding of how they're played and where their weakness is. Builds can be well rounded jack of all trade builds or be highly specialized and the game offers incentives for both. The game isn't perfect, but it's much better than people act like it is.

So yeah, the next time you complain about a balance issue, stop a moment and consider every possible angle. Did they line of sight me better? Did they us the terrain to their advantage? Is there a way I can learn better how to play? Were they just better than me? Was their build designed to counter mine? I feel as though if we all do this after every death in Cyrodiil, we'll all become much better PvPers and have a better time.

Anywho, that was just my rant on my unpopular opinion. Please, I invite your thoughts both in agreement and disagreement, but please keep it civil!

-Para Nostram

hmmm everything you see sounds like a real medieval war battle to me. ever seen them movies where you have one guy killing hundreds while everyone around him dies? or two guys going at it while in the background there a huge clash going on? or how about lord of the rings one archer killing hundreds or a little dwarf taking out hundreds with his axe? well it's exactly what I see in cyrodiil pvp and people are complaining about it?

Real medieval battles? Did you see them on youtube? I hope you understand that what you are describing is only in movies for a reason.

kevlarto_ESO

I have been here since Beta, the pvp in this game can be some of the best pvp I have ever played and have been playing mmo's since the 90's.
The other hand the technical issues can make you want to drive off a cliff, all games with pvp have some kind of issues, all mmo's have some kind of issues, it is the nature of the beast.
I plan on playing ESO for at least another year, maybe longer if they can get some much needed improvements and fixes in the game, I do plan on playing Camelot Unchained, I have been testing that already, do I expect it to have bugs and problems heck yes I do.

Yes there are balance issues in this game as with all mmo's, if they ever do put in small scale pvp here, those imbalances will really be highlighted, and you think the forums are bad now about crying for nerfs, oh boy I do not know if the forums will be able to repel whinning of that magnitude when small scale comes around. Zerg balls will be replaced with pre-mades and that can really suck the fun out of small scale pvp.

Elsterchen

I used to enjoy PVP for all those and many more reasons the OP mentions.
I did play PVP very often, started during beta and never gave it up completely ...

... well, untill recently. I haven't tried the 2.3.9 patch yet, but before I just wasn't able to play PVP anymore. Not because I didn't want to, but because of simple performance problems.

During the last month' I noticed that I get lag to a point of not beeing able to play anymore when:
- attempting to engage in big fights
- attemting to engage in small fights
- attemting to group
- attempting to engage in 1 vs 1 fights
- attempting to enter a door
- anyone gets near me
- ... and finally trying to ride my horse !

I would really love to participate in PVP ... however in its current state (looking at 2.3.8 only) this isn't possible for me.

I really feel its very unsatisfying to hover in midair while beeing killed, stomped to the ground, not able to use any ability, potion or movement... yet try to attack or block.

That is why I really would love the devs to concentrate on Cyrodiil performance issues.

edit: 2.3.9 and changing back to 32bit client allowed 3hrs of PVP for me. I had a crash report popping up and several latency and FPS drops. Yet since a long time I was able to participate in PVP again. Thanks for that! I really enjoyed it. Nevertheless, I know how almost lag free PVP feels and I want that back, please.

Nussi28

I want to throw in another aspect why PVP is broken from my point of view. Although this is only applying to some and not all campaigns.
Background: I play on PS4 EU and have characters through all factions
Currently I'm playing a lot with my AD Templar in Haderus, I changed to this campaign when Azura got the CP removed.
My problem is the big difference in active faction members. EP is ruling the campaign completely for several days, now. That means I haven't seen them not having all keeps in Cyrodiil for longer than half hour. In IC it's pretty much the same, everywhere groups of EP farming. Rarely I see other ADs or someone from DC. Partly I can deal with this and find my way. I stole a lot of stones from unheeding players. But it annoys me very much that it is not possible in anyway to have any kind of open fight. As soon as I show up I normally get outnumbered at least 1 to 5 sometimes even 1 to 20. I completely stopped in Cyrodiil as it is too frustrating attacking a keep with 5 people when 20 are defending it. It's even worse when they decide to not longer defend the keep instead preventing most players from even leaving the home base.

This is explicitly no QQ, as I'm still able to get my portion of AP. But I would suggest to think about measures which would even out the active faction members a bit. I also experienced the other side in the past, where my faction was outnumbering the others. This was no fun, too.

I think this is coming from normal human behavior, a lot of people want it easy e.g. for grinding. Some others, especially guilds, tend to hunger for power. They want to "own" the campaign. With the current mechanics it's too easy, they just group up until they've outnumbered everything else.

I would suggest to implement a mechanic to only allow people to go to Cyrodiil when a defined faction share is given. Something like one faction is only allowed to have max 50-60 % of the overall population. This would people force to spread out a bit more over the factions and maybe also through the different campaigns, thus having positive influence on lag issues as well.

MaxwellC

LOL did the OP ask is PvP broken? Lol PvP has been broken since the changes of 1.7 with our new #Balance

JadeNaria

ParaNostram wrote: »

Unpopular opinion time! I don't think PvP in Cyrodiil is broken! It can be improved, no doubt, but I find it very rewarding and enjoyable. I see a variety of builds of every class when I am on working together to push things forward. I am seeing players rewarded for smart and tactical decisions mid battle (such as using line of sight, knowing when to push forward and when to swap to your defensive bar) and punished for being too greedy//getting tunnel vision. Loading screen time is down dramatically. Keep in mind, I play this game on high graphical settings with a $500 laptop.

I have seen great zergs left with only a few survivors desperately trying to limp to safety based on the efforts of a few smart zerg bombers.

I have seen zerg bombers completely fail as a group reacts quickly and survives.

I have seen tanks actually tank in PvP, holding the attention of their enemies and refusing to go down without a fight.

I have seen night blades pick off soft targets at the sides and rear of battles, and coordinated groups tearing down healers in the thick of it all.

I have seen casters of ever persuasion punishing people for even trying to approach them when they have the high ground.

I have seen every class fill ever role imaginable out there in the heated battles of Cyrodiil, and I have beaten every imaginable class and role and been beaten by every imaginable class and role by merit of skill, smart play, and luck.

Point being, this game does reward smart play. This game offers an in and an out to every feature and ability implemented. Flavor of the patch builds can be thwarted with understanding of how they're played and where their weakness is. Builds can be well rounded jack of all trade builds or be highly specialized and the game offers incentives for both. The game isn't perfect, but it's much better than people act like it is.

So yeah, the next time you complain about a balance issue, stop a moment and consider every possible angle. Did they line of sight me better? Did they us the terrain to their advantage? Is there a way I can learn better how to play? Were they just better than me? Was their build designed to counter mine? I feel as though if we all do this after every death in Cyrodiil, we'll all become much better PvPers and have a better time.

Anywho, that was just my rant on my unpopular opinion. Please, I invite your thoughts both in agreement and disagreement, but please keep it civil!

-Para Nostram

I absolutely agree with everything you said as my gripe with pvp has never been about any of the items you mentioned but rather the terrible performance of it that is riddled with unresponsive combat and more. So in regards to gameplay, yes it is very fun but the technical aspect of it is not.

The overall concept of gameplay created by ZoS is great but their manner of maintaining it or rather lack there of, is very poor and hinders my enjoyment alot.

Currently I have been busy these days and have not been able to play but for someone like me who lives in Cyro, a couple days off from Cyro is a good thing these days

Morozov

Sardath wrote: »

People always think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I'm very new to ESO, came from GW2 due to a content drought. Back there, people used to give ESO as an example of proper patching and dev communication, even compared their RvR(called World vs World) to your PvP. Here, people complain about all these things.

Simply put, everywhere is roughly the same. The doomsayers and armchair developers will always say that the game is dying/in a bad state or that the devs have no idea what they're doing. On every MMO forum, you'll hear the exact same complaints.

And all the mindless ranting hurts the game a lot more than people realize. The reason for the "is ESO worth playing now?" posts is the bad reputation the game got in its early stages(a reason why I didn't touch it for two years). New people are put off because of exaggerations like "pvp is unplayable/the dlc is garbage/the devs never listen" and this only hurts the game in the long run.

Sure, criticism is important and the community must be vocal about the issues, but it needs to be portrayed in a realistic and useful way - for both developers and potential readers. Mindlessly yelling "the game is garbage" doesn't help anyone.

As a new player, I have no idea/saying of the state of the PvP. But I'm sure as hell it isn't as bad as people claim it to be.

Arenas or Battlegrounds would be nice though ._.

you haven't played PVP long enough to comment. Thanks however for the insights they do make sense. Majority of the complainers on the PVP/AW forums are the ones who have played in Cyrodiil the longest and have been able to see the iterations of patches and what has/has not worked over the years since launch. Those folks have seen what ESO PVP was like and what it has become. Considering this I think more people would understand why the PVP community complains so much and are a bunch of doomsayers.

I have read on other forums about bugs and broken skills/classes. That much I can agree is very similar. The main issue I think many people feel is the lack of response from the development teams at ZOS regarding the issues which directly affect their gameplay.

RedFireDisco

Died tonight trying to hit invasion to close a gap three times. Didn't work at all. I was taking on two guys, but I thought a had them. Of course, when you're main gap closer and cc doesn't work - RAGE!!!!

Sugaroverdose

ParaNostram wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Sardath wrote: »

People always think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I'm very new to ESO, came from GW2 due to a content drought. Back there, people used to give ESO as an example of proper patching and dev communication, even compared their RvR(called World vs World) to your PvP. Here, people complain about all these things.

Simply put, everywhere is roughly the same. The doomsayers and armchair developers will always say that the game is dying/in a bad state or that the devs have no idea what they're doing. On every MMO forum, you'll hear the exact same complaints.

And all the mindless ranting hurts the game a lot more than people realize. The reason for the "is ESO worth playing now?" posts is the bad reputation the game got in its early stages(a reason why I didn't touch it for two years). New people are put off because of exaggerations like "pvp is unplayable/the dlc is garbage/the devs never listen" and this only hurts the game in the long run.

Sure, criticism is important and the community must be vocal about the issues, but it needs to be portrayed in a realistic and useful way - for both developers and potential readers. Mindlessly yelling "the game is garbage" doesn't help anyone.

As a new player, I have no idea/saying of the state of the PvP. But I'm sure as hell it isn't as bad as people claim it to be.

Arenas or Battlegrounds would be nice though ._.

Game get hurt when dev's do not fix issues what people complain about. Game reputation is connected to overall quality and if dev's don't want to invest into it, it's not players problem.
Mindless 'game is garbage' could come when game doesn't really have game-breaking issues, or such issues get fixed asap, now - zeni don't do anything about proxydetvd effectiveness vs small groups, didn't fixed toppling charge, didn't fixed camohunter, console patch wich should at least fix DK scales doesn't even have schedule, while this bug is well known two weeks before TG console release.

At least zenimax may learn on their mistakes.

I've seen proxy det vs small groups, I've seen it work and I've seen it fall apart. The difference? Smart groups know not to bunch up. Countering proxy det is as simple as just spreading out. It's not hard to do, see the red circle and immediately dodge roll away from the center of the group. What camo hunter glitch are you talking about? I play three DKs, not aware of any trouble with them, and i get toppling charged effectively all the time. Either you have poor luck or I have amazing luck to have never encountered these issues you speak of.

But yeah, the constant call for nerfing of things is kind of amusing honestly. Proxy det vicious death is a zerg deterrent, it works as intended. You clump up, you will likely die. If you spread out, it's pretty well countered. It's a clever way to punish mistakes (see my original post).

Other moves like Wrecking Blow spam? Well, that's the easiest. Take a step forward, or back, or line of sight. Too easy.

Jesus beam? Swap to your defensive bar, keep your health above half and it's doing next to nothing but keeping your opponent from using actually damaging attacks. Or CC them.

Everything has a counter. You just have to find it.

So i must run away 10m every time i see guy who i don't know? Your "counter" is piece of sh*t if you ask me.
Proxy must be viable only on groups of 5+ people, as well as VC which should increase DPS over ball group, not being main dps vs 2+ people.

ParaNostram

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Sardath wrote: »

People always think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I'm very new to ESO, came from GW2 due to a content drought. Back there, people used to give ESO as an example of proper patching and dev communication, even compared their RvR(called World vs World) to your PvP. Here, people complain about all these things.

Simply put, everywhere is roughly the same. The doomsayers and armchair developers will always say that the game is dying/in a bad state or that the devs have no idea what they're doing. On every MMO forum, you'll hear the exact same complaints.

And all the mindless ranting hurts the game a lot more than people realize. The reason for the "is ESO worth playing now?" posts is the bad reputation the game got in its early stages(a reason why I didn't touch it for two years). New people are put off because of exaggerations like "pvp is unplayable/the dlc is garbage/the devs never listen" and this only hurts the game in the long run.

Sure, criticism is important and the community must be vocal about the issues, but it needs to be portrayed in a realistic and useful way - for both developers and potential readers. Mindlessly yelling "the game is garbage" doesn't help anyone.

As a new player, I have no idea/saying of the state of the PvP. But I'm sure as hell it isn't as bad as people claim it to be.

Arenas or Battlegrounds would be nice though ._.

Game get hurt when dev's do not fix issues what people complain about. Game reputation is connected to overall quality and if dev's don't want to invest into it, it's not players problem.
Mindless 'game is garbage' could come when game doesn't really have game-breaking issues, or such issues get fixed asap, now - zeni don't do anything about proxydetvd effectiveness vs small groups, didn't fixed toppling charge, didn't fixed camohunter, console patch wich should at least fix DK scales doesn't even have schedule, while this bug is well known two weeks before TG console release.

At least zenimax may learn on their mistakes.

I've seen proxy det vs small groups, I've seen it work and I've seen it fall apart. The difference? Smart groups know not to bunch up. Countering proxy det is as simple as just spreading out. It's not hard to do, see the red circle and immediately dodge roll away from the center of the group. What camo hunter glitch are you talking about? I play three DKs, not aware of any trouble with them, and i get toppling charged effectively all the time. Either you have poor luck or I have amazing luck to have never encountered these issues you speak of.

But yeah, the constant call for nerfing of things is kind of amusing honestly. Proxy det vicious death is a zerg deterrent, it works as intended. You clump up, you will likely die. If you spread out, it's pretty well countered. It's a clever way to punish mistakes (see my original post).

Other moves like Wrecking Blow spam? Well, that's the easiest. Take a step forward, or back, or line of sight. Too easy.

Jesus beam? Swap to your defensive bar, keep your health above half and it's doing next to nothing but keeping your opponent from using actually damaging attacks. Or CC them.

Everything has a counter. You just have to find it.

So i must run away 10m every time i see guy who i don't know? Your "counter" is piece of sh*t if you ask me.
Proxy must be viable only on groups of 5+ people, as well as VC which should increase DPS over ball group, not being main dps vs 2+ people.

Hun, you can see the red ring of an incoming AoE attack around an enemy when they have it up. It's simple, if there's red around them when they move they have a Proxy Det up. If it's one person running into a large group, it's probably a zerg bomber. Well, you have fun dying, I'll have fun surviving with my "sh*t" counter.

Sugaroverdose

ParaNostram wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Sardath wrote: »

People always think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I'm very new to ESO, came from GW2 due to a content drought. Back there, people used to give ESO as an example of proper patching and dev communication, even compared their RvR(called World vs World) to your PvP. Here, people complain about all these things.

Simply put, everywhere is roughly the same. The doomsayers and armchair developers will always say that the game is dying/in a bad state or that the devs have no idea what they're doing. On every MMO forum, you'll hear the exact same complaints.

And all the mindless ranting hurts the game a lot more than people realize. The reason for the "is ESO worth playing now?" posts is the bad reputation the game got in its early stages(a reason why I didn't touch it for two years). New people are put off because of exaggerations like "pvp is unplayable/the dlc is garbage/the devs never listen" and this only hurts the game in the long run.

Sure, criticism is important and the community must be vocal about the issues, but it needs to be portrayed in a realistic and useful way - for both developers and potential readers. Mindlessly yelling "the game is garbage" doesn't help anyone.

As a new player, I have no idea/saying of the state of the PvP. But I'm sure as hell it isn't as bad as people claim it to be.

Arenas or Battlegrounds would be nice though ._.

Game get hurt when dev's do not fix issues what people complain about. Game reputation is connected to overall quality and if dev's don't want to invest into it, it's not players problem.
Mindless 'game is garbage' could come when game doesn't really have game-breaking issues, or such issues get fixed asap, now - zeni don't do anything about proxydetvd effectiveness vs small groups, didn't fixed toppling charge, didn't fixed camohunter, console patch wich should at least fix DK scales doesn't even have schedule, while this bug is well known two weeks before TG console release.

At least zenimax may learn on their mistakes.

I've seen proxy det vs small groups, I've seen it work and I've seen it fall apart. The difference? Smart groups know not to bunch up. Countering proxy det is as simple as just spreading out. It's not hard to do, see the red circle and immediately dodge roll away from the center of the group. What camo hunter glitch are you talking about? I play three DKs, not aware of any trouble with them, and i get toppling charged effectively all the time. Either you have poor luck or I have amazing luck to have never encountered these issues you speak of.

But yeah, the constant call for nerfing of things is kind of amusing honestly. Proxy det vicious death is a zerg deterrent, it works as intended. You clump up, you will likely die. If you spread out, it's pretty well countered. It's a clever way to punish mistakes (see my original post).

Other moves like Wrecking Blow spam? Well, that's the easiest. Take a step forward, or back, or line of sight. Too easy.

Jesus beam? Swap to your defensive bar, keep your health above half and it's doing next to nothing but keeping your opponent from using actually damaging attacks. Or CC them.

Everything has a counter. You just have to find it.

So i must run away 10m every time i see guy who i don't know? Your "counter" is piece of sh*t if you ask me.
Proxy must be viable only on groups of 5+ people, as well as VC which should increase DPS over ball group, not being main dps vs 2+ people.

Hun, you can see the red ring of an incoming AoE attack around an enemy when they have it up. It's simple, if there's red around them when they move they have a Proxy Det up. If it's one person running into a large group, it's probably a zerg bomber. Well, you have fun dying, I'll have fun surviving with my "sh*t" counter.

Do you understand that "running" is "running" and not "surviving" not at all. Also magblade have a... SURPRISE ...spammable invisibility which does reduces your chances to spot them.

If i didn't clarify - i'm dying from proxydetvd(mostly from VD damage which is completely overpowered) exclusively when there's 1-3 allies around me, zergbomb is too hard for proxytethers

ParaNostram

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Sardath wrote: »

People always think the grass is greener somewhere else.

I'm very new to ESO, came from GW2 due to a content drought. Back there, people used to give ESO as an example of proper patching and dev communication, even compared their RvR(called World vs World) to your PvP. Here, people complain about all these things.

Simply put, everywhere is roughly the same. The doomsayers and armchair developers will always say that the game is dying/in a bad state or that the devs have no idea what they're doing. On every MMO forum, you'll hear the exact same complaints.

And all the mindless ranting hurts the game a lot more than people realize. The reason for the "is ESO worth playing now?" posts is the bad reputation the game got in its early stages(a reason why I didn't touch it for two years). New people are put off because of exaggerations like "pvp is unplayable/the dlc is garbage/the devs never listen" and this only hurts the game in the long run.

Sure, criticism is important and the community must be vocal about the issues, but it needs to be portrayed in a realistic and useful way - for both developers and potential readers. Mindlessly yelling "the game is garbage" doesn't help anyone.

As a new player, I have no idea/saying of the state of the PvP. But I'm sure as hell it isn't as bad as people claim it to be.

Arenas or Battlegrounds would be nice though ._.

Game get hurt when dev's do not fix issues what people complain about. Game reputation is connected to overall quality and if dev's don't want to invest into it, it's not players problem.
Mindless 'game is garbage' could come when game doesn't really have game-breaking issues, or such issues get fixed asap, now - zeni don't do anything about proxydetvd effectiveness vs small groups, didn't fixed toppling charge, didn't fixed camohunter, console patch wich should at least fix DK scales doesn't even have schedule, while this bug is well known two weeks before TG console release.

At least zenimax may learn on their mistakes.

I've seen proxy det vs small groups, I've seen it work and I've seen it fall apart. The difference? Smart groups know not to bunch up. Countering proxy det is as simple as just spreading out. It's not hard to do, see the red circle and immediately dodge roll away from the center of the group. What camo hunter glitch are you talking about? I play three DKs, not aware of any trouble with them, and i get toppling charged effectively all the time. Either you have poor luck or I have amazing luck to have never encountered these issues you speak of.

But yeah, the constant call for nerfing of things is kind of amusing honestly. Proxy det vicious death is a zerg deterrent, it works as intended. You clump up, you will likely die. If you spread out, it's pretty well countered. It's a clever way to punish mistakes (see my original post).

Other moves like Wrecking Blow spam? Well, that's the easiest. Take a step forward, or back, or line of sight. Too easy.

Jesus beam? Swap to your defensive bar, keep your health above half and it's doing next to nothing but keeping your opponent from using actually damaging attacks. Or CC them.

Everything has a counter. You just have to find it.

So i must run away 10m every time i see guy who i don't know? Your "counter" is piece of sh*t if you ask me.
Proxy must be viable only on groups of 5+ people, as well as VC which should increase DPS over ball group, not being main dps vs 2+ people.

Hun, you can see the red ring of an incoming AoE attack around an enemy when they have it up. It's simple, if there's red around them when they move they have a Proxy Det up. If it's one person running into a large group, it's probably a zerg bomber. Well, you have fun dying, I'll have fun surviving with my "sh*t" counter.

Do you understand that "running" is "running" and not "surviving" not at all. Also magblade have a... SURPRISE ...spammable invisibility which does reduces your chances to spot them.

If i didn't clarify - i'm dying from proxydetvd(mostly from VD damage which is completely overpowered) exclusively when there's 1-3 allies around me, zergbomb is too hard for proxytethers

Should have spread out then. Also, no shame in running, seriously. Getting smacked by range? Run behind a wall. AoE? Run out of red! I really don't understand what's so difficult about this. Do you expect to just stand there and soak all the damage? No! You move! And that is why this game is not broken in PvP, it rewards those who are smart and stay mobile and punishes those who stand in red.

Okay, mag nightblade is a decent excuse, but you know they exist, why clump up? Stay spread, always. Clumping up is just asking them to jump on you and your friends and hey! Guess what just happened! You're all dead. Now how did that happen?

But yeah, good thing ZOS understands the difference between an overpowered mechanic and a mechanic with high potential that can be countered through clever play. It's called Counter Play. https://youtube.com/watch?v=BRBcjsOt0_g

Brrrofski

Honestly...

If lag was remotely fixed, the other crap wouldn't bother me. The lag is what makes Cyrodiil broken for me.

ParaNostram

The reason why you see people spamming Vicious Death MagDet is because it is a relatively easily put together build that some people just refuse to learn how to counter. It's wrecking blow all over again when wrecking blow didn't need nerfed either, as that was a simple slide to the left, slide to the right, cha cha real smooth and they miss you every time wasting their time while you keep hitting them.

Want an extra tip to stop Vicious Death MagDet? Root them, dodge roll, hold block. Hello, you survived the explosion and they had to choose one person to go after making the explosion weaker. I only die to MagDet VicDeath when I have to hold a small area and only then if they're good enough to actually get into the mass of people I run with (hint, most aren't).

kewl

krathos wrote: »

A perfect example was the 2 year anniversary itself. They introduced this limited time cake memento to give you a 100% exp boost. They stated right off the bat that it would stack with all other forms of exp bonus (such as the scrolls you can buy in their lovely store). But, as a perfect reminder of the state of the game, it was bugged and many people spent real dollars buying scrolls that didn't work - and while they hotfixed the issue after a couple days and extended the duration of the gift they did not refund anyone's money or scrolls spent due to their own error.

Really well articulated encapsulation of our experiences. Thank you for this post. One moment in ESO history I'd like to add, the patch that pushed noting.