Fix Cyrodiil or just get rid of it (sort of)

krathos

This isn't a bashing thread so keep your salt in their shakers.

ZoS has proven they either cannot or are unwilling to prioritize the fixing of issues that have plagued PvP for 2 years now. At this point the only thing remedying the issue is the fact that population in PvP is shrinking fairly drastically each patch.

I'm a die hard pvp player. I am in every game I play. This game was sold to me as the spiritual successor to DAoC - that it would support large scale, open-world fighting and sieging. It has failed in every way.

Anyways. If we can't get Cyrodiil fixed proper...

Give us 1v1, 4v4, and 12v12 (or 24v24) battlegrounds/arenas. Reform Cyrodiil/IC into some alliance unrestricted co-op PvE place. Or just get rid of separate alliances altogether - there's no real realm loyalty anyways and the need for 10 extra vet zones is about to go away when DB drops. I'm willing to bet most, or at least a large number of players have toons in multiple alliances as it is. If/when you introduce arenas as has been said in ESO live it will decimate the already struggling Cyrodiil population anyways and further divide the player base.

We may as well just focus on one place for PvP. A place where maybe ZoS will want to give attention and can make it some money with tournaments, seasons, etc. When arenas drop later this year it's going to be another crapfest watching them balance PvE, arenas, and cyrodiil.

OR fix the latency and other issues in Cyrodiil so we can actually enjoy it how it's supposed to be enjoyed and don't introduce arenas or bg.

Whichever, I don't care at this point.

Teridaxus

No

Forestd16b14_ESO

Arenas are already in the works the problem is zerg guilds run PvP and currently 2 AD zerg guilds own 2 of te 3 playable pvp servers,

Maybe give more campaigns ?

krathos

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Arenas are already in the works the problem is zerg guilds run PvP and currently 2 AD zerg guilds own 2 of te 3 playable pvp servers,

Maybe give more campaigns ?

Idk another campaign would be nice just so there's one without lag 24/7. The problem is, however, people flock to where the population is and that includes zergs, small groups, solo players, etc. Few want to PvP on a dead campaign.

Latency is the big killer. You can avoid zergs which avoids frame drops but the latency is felt across the entire campaign. I'm just starting to lose hope that ZoS is going to actually fully resolve that issue at all.

Once arenas are introduced you will see even fewer people in Cyrodiil and you already see an exodus of guilds and players. On top of that ZoS will have to balance for yet another scene. The arena, cyrodiil, and pve players will all be wanting different and often conflicting balance changes.

To clarify I don't want to lose Cyrodiil anymore than you or anyone else. I just don't trust that ZoS will be able to maintain Cyrodiil & arenas with balance or really fix the latency problem in Cyrodiil.

PrinceFabious

Hell no

NativeJoe

They are trying to fix the lag. They are trying every "major patch" lol click dev tracker if you want to see what is going on.
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ZOS_BrianWheeler
mod
In terms of "why are we lagging out when no one is doing anything around us?":

All things that happen in a zone will effect that zone, so in the case of a battle going on at Glademist where tons of server checks are being initiated, it can (and does) effect what is happening across the map at Bloodmayne. That's how the entire game functions where server processes of a zone are handled and effect the entire zone.

We believe the changes being made to these sorting/requirement changes will help more than other changes have in the past, but that also doesn't mean we believe it's a silver bullet. Each time we peel back a layer of optimizations, we find more we can change to make Cyrodiil perform better. There haven't been discussions about the anti-bot/hack code yet as we continue to have our engineers bang on the combat code.

We are focusing on that aspect the most because of evidence seen with our Non-Veteran Campaign populations vs. Veteran Campaign populations when paired with performance graphs. Looking at Blackwater Blade vs. Scourge on Xbox for example, we see that Blackwater Blade actually has a higher population than Scourge but Blackwater performs better than Scourge. It's this information that has been pointing us to abilities that Non-Veteran players don't have access to via morphs, item abilities, magicka/health/stam regeneration and more.

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And sometimes they need graphs to point out the obvious... they're a very visual people. lol Anybody could have figured out meteor, proxy, soul tether, and various other AOE's cause lag. Hell, thats why there for months entire guilds where running "lag-sploit" builds to make the server cry, and then they'd use "lag free" skills like mages wrath and go to town on the pugs standing around doing nothing.

Idk. If I was going to vote on what is destroying pvp....1 it's the lag. 2. it's the people... IE AFK guilds that just log in to their alts, take up population space of who they want wiped out, and then the other faction takes everything from said people.

krathos

NativeJoe wrote: »

They are trying to fix the lag. They are trying every "major patch" lol click dev tracker if you want to see what is going on.
(****************************************************************************************************************)
ZOS_BrianWheeler
mod
In terms of "why are we lagging out when no one is doing anything around us?":

All things that happen in a zone will effect that zone, so in the case of a battle going on at Glademist where tons of server checks are being initiated, it can (and does) effect what is happening across the map at Bloodmayne. That's how the entire game functions where server processes of a zone are handled and effect the entire zone.

We believe the changes being made to these sorting/requirement changes will help more than other changes have in the past, but that also doesn't mean we believe it's a silver bullet. Each time we peel back a layer of optimizations, we find more we can change to make Cyrodiil perform better. There haven't been discussions about the anti-bot/hack code yet as we continue to have our engineers bang on the combat code.

We are focusing on that aspect the most because of evidence seen with our Non-Veteran Campaign populations vs. Veteran Campaign populations when paired with performance graphs. Looking at Blackwater Blade vs. Scourge on Xbox for example, we see that Blackwater Blade actually has a higher population than Scourge but Blackwater performs better than Scourge. It's this information that has been pointing us to abilities that Non-Veteran players don't have access to via morphs, item abilities, magicka/health/stam regeneration and more.

(***********************************************************************************************************)

I follow the tracker. They've been "trying" for almost two years dude. Latency has been a problem in Cyro for a long time now. Everything is in the "next major patch". It basically means we go months and months without fixes. We already know we will be dealing with the ~15% base run speed reduction and broken gap closers for the next few months too per Gina's responses on the issues. Like I said, unable or unwilling - at this point it is one of those.

NativeJoe

Well, All they can do is "try". effectively they just can't deliver what they advertised. Not yet at least. And the game is going to remain broken. It's a f2p game now... that means they gotta push product, not fixes.

I have a love hate relationship with this game.

So you either Roll with the punches, or you seep in your own anger.

Personally I'm going to go peer pressure some guildies into running VMA with me, listen to the cries of pain, keyboard breaking, and pure rage to cheer me up.

krathos

Yeah at this point I'm just saying I'd rather have a lag free arena/bg environment instead of the crapfest we have now in Cyrodiil. I'd love to have a functioning Cyrodiil. I'm not even a huge fan of arena/bg pvp. But at what point do we need to realize that what they promised, large open world sieges and fights, is not going to happen. And when arenas are introduced later this year it will just hurt Cyrodiil even more.

Sallington

krathos wrote: »

snip

This game was sold to me as the spiritual successor to DAoC - that it would support large scale, open-world fighting and sieging. It has failed in every way.


snip

This is the best TLDR to summarize ESO PVP.

fastolfv_ESO

Arenas are for games that failed miserably at open world pvp, i would prefer cyro being shut down and thieves guild being rolled back for a month or even 2 until its all fixed then launching again

themdogesbite

If you want to get rid of cyrodiil then introduce open world pvp with a karma system so i can slay PvE carebears all day and night. I'd go back to ESO in a heartbeat.

Etaniel

An open world pvp system where you can only respawn in one of your faction's main city/belkarth when you die from PvP, that would be so amazing. With the possibility of killing anyone in your path of course

Sallington

Lack of Open PvP servers is the number 1 worst result of this whole "mega"server business.

Minno

-Add Arenas
-Balance classes around pvp arenas
-Turn cyrodill into pve only
-Add 3 new trials, tons of tri faction quests/world bosses, tons of dungeons and more group dailies.
-IC is a new city to do crafting,etc.
- rank system for arenas.

"Rebuilding cyrodill after the invasion".

EIGHTS

After IC, I really don't like PvP arena. You already have 7 arena zones in IC. Because I don't like endless battle. That's meaningless.

Astanphaeus

No, just no.

Nidwin

It's going to take Years and a complete revamp of a lot of stuff if they want to properly fix Cyrodill for oRvR. Because the lag isn't the only issue, far from.

I'll keep my account active, in case I want to do some PVE, as for the RvR it's back to IC (Inevitable City) as home.

RadioheadSh0t

These people just typing "No" without any explanation are what's wrong with this community. Do you like bugs and latency? Do you think Cyro is in a good state or will ever be fixed? Are you a PVE player chiming in on PvP issues?

Cyro is broken and it will never be fixed. The only hope to save PvP is BGs or Arenas, if done correctly. The only way this game has any shred of maintaining a PvP player base is by adding those and doing it well (i.e., not littered with PvE crap).

EIGHTS wrote: »

After IC, I really don't like PvP arena. You already have 7 arena zones in IC. Because I don't like endless battle. That's meaningless.

Calling the IC districts "arenas" is just absurd. They're PvE grind zones where maybe you'll run into someone to fight every now and then. No one goes to those for PVP. What we're talking about with "arenas" is actual PvP.

Anazasi

I just wonder. Did it ever occur to anyone to really think about ESO PVP. No one ever complains about loosing to a perceived fair fight. So lets look at the perception. If the fight is 1 v 1 or 12 v 12 I think we can all agree its fair based on numbers; right. If the fight is 1 v 2 or 1 v 4 and the 1 player wins we can reasonably say we lost because the player had a better build, or skill; so where does the real problem come from . Perception. We look at open world pvp where the player perceives the expectation of fairness. ZOS of course is the entity obligated by contract to provide, maintain, and control that perception and sadly by the looks of these forums and the number of complaints and arguments, they have failed to do so.

How does an MMO achieve perceptual fairness in a world PVP 3 faction fight? Please keep in mind ZOS can not control the actual people connected to their servers. So what they are responsible for, is the environment in which we log into. At present it is riddled with lag, due to many reasons that ZOS continually works on. Then of course there is the population balance or imbalance, which they offer up a token well you are loosing because no one has logged in so we will up your score so you can win by absenteeism. Of course my all time favorite is the cross faction players who always seem to have access to any campaign that happens to be the location of their friends which of course adds to the perception of unvested gaming.

If ZOS wants to fix the game it should begin with the perceptions they have allowed over the past 2 years. You can not fix something that is broken by adding new content. You can only fix broken parts by actually fixing what is broken.

RadioheadSh0t

Anazasi wrote: »

I just wonder. Did it ever occur to anyone to really think about ESO PVP. No one ever complains about loosing to a perceived fair fight. So lets look at the perception. If the fight is 1 v 1 or 12 v 12 I think we can all agree its fair based on numbers; right. If the fight is 1 v 2 or 1 v 4 and the 1 player wins we can reasonably say we lost because the player had a better build, or skill; so where does the real problem come from . Perception. We look at open world pvp where the player perceives the expectation of fairness. ZOS of course is the entity obligated by contract to provide, maintain, and control that perception and sadly by the looks of these forums and the number of complaints and arguments, they have failed to do so.

How does an MMO achieve perceptual fairness in a world PVP 3 faction fight? Please keep in mind ZOS can not control the actual people connected to their servers. So what they are responsible for, is the environment in which we log into. At present it is riddled with lag, due to many reasons that ZOS continually works on. Then of course there is the population balance or imbalance, which they offer up a token well you are loosing because no one has logged in so we will up your score so you can win by absenteeism. Of course my all time favorite is the cross faction players who always seem to have access to any campaign that happens to be the location of their friends which of course adds to the perception of unvested gaming.

If ZOS wants to fix the game it should begin with the perceptions they have allowed over the past 2 years. You can not fix something that is broken by adding new content. You can only fix broken parts by actually fixing what is broken.

Or they've given up trying to fix it and are shifting their resources elsewhere (hopefully BGs and Arenas, but most likely some PvE zone I'll never touch).

I don't think there is any way to fix Cyrodiil. I think it was an overly ambitious concept that simply is inoperable with their coding. If they cared about fixing it, or were able to fix it, it would be fixed by now. They care about selling boxes, DLCs, and crown items, and I can't blame them, they're a business, but they're not going to be able to hold PvP players with a system that simply does not work and has no light at the end of the tunnel.

Adding new content to PvP will give PvP players something to play without the headaches of Cyrodiil (hopefully). BGs and/or Arenas are the only thing that could keep me playing this game in the future, but only if they do it correctly.