The Elder Roots, Snares, and Bombard Online

maxjapank

Thank you for bringing this up @RinaldoGandolphi . The devs really need to look into snares and roots. Being Immobalized should count as a hard cc. Being slowed after breaking free is fine. But the way Bombard is working now is just unacceptable. Even when you purge, it just reapplies the Immobalize. And the fact that it is stacking explains alot.

Full raids now have group members whose only job is to spam Bombard. That's all they do. Because they know that there is no way for other teams to counter it. And that is the problem. There is no counter to it.

Zheg

maxjapank wrote: »

Thank you for bringing this up @RinaldoGandolphi . The devs really need to look into snares and roots. Being Immobalized should count as a hard cc. Being slowed after breaking free is fine. But the way Bombard is working now is just unacceptable. Even when you purge, it just reapplies the Immobalize. And the fact that it is stacking explains alot.

Full raids now have group members whose only job is to spam Bombard. That's all they do. Because they know that there is no way for other teams to counter it. And that is the problem. There is no counter to it.

Rapids used to be the counter to it, but ww2 lack foresight and this is what we're now left with.

HoloYoitsu

So like, I have to add this to the list too?

And can someone get me a video of the stacking/unable to dodge? Video is the only way ZOS will acknowledge anything exists.

Vangy

Telel wrote: »

Telel is curious if those who are now wishing to lay the sacrifical goat of na'herf'baht at the altar of bombard are in fact people who use this most puissant of skills.

As someone who has made use of this illustrious sprayer of Khajiit joy they can assure you that in comparison to oh say...spinning round and round as knives spurt from your fingers or surrounding yourself in HUGE red rings of boom Bombard is an altogether different beast.

If you do not believe most humble khajiit then merely try firing it at a target that is in fact moving and is not a huge clump of people who wish to remain in place for seconds at a time huddling like guar hiding from the rain. It can take up to ten, ten, shots before the blasted attack lands. Then one must hope the target has no immunities to roots or snares up. Unless one is very careful the spewer of arrows shall have run out of stamina by this point.

This proclivity to requiring multiple applications is exasperated even furtherwhen the lag boss rears its ugly head.

Overall Telel finds its most useful against the kind of players who rely on only the most low skill methods of play. Things like cloaking proxblades who think running forward and spamming concealed weapon and prox det are far less abuseable than bombard. Oh, and of course those *** so lovely lag blobs who are so used to just running in straight lines spamming one skill each as they 'got gud' all over everyone else.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. QFT.

Someone give this kitty a medal!

Telel

@Zheg @RinaldoGandolphi Khajiit must of course act sad when they say they disagree still even if the skill has become more widely spread.

Right now there are still many many MANY players who rely on the simple tactic of 'LOLOL PROX BOMB WITH RAPIDS AND OR CLOAK" en masse. The only real counters Telel has to such people is to slow and immobilize them as often and for as long as possible. If one can't do so...well Telel goes boom and this one hates going boom.

Unless of course you want to see thirty annoyed werewolves doing the same thing in kind of course. And this one can assure you that they are very very good at running forward and spinning in circles.

Then you have high mobility opponents whose entire play style requires them to remain in constant motion as they murderize less skilled players. Again, removing the ability to root them with maybe one in five of those bombard shots would shift balance entirely to that play style which is just as easy to abuse as this one's beloved arrow spray.

So until other viable methods of dealing with these situations come up then Telel humbly wishes horrific disease filled unpleaseantness on those who wish to take away their favorite bow skill.

Also if you change bombard Telel will just go back to sitting at 50 meters and spamming snipe into your backs. Then running away while giggling like a Bosmer school girl.

With pig tails.

RebornV3x

the sad thing about the game is everything is becoming a spam one button melee

L2Pissue

themdogesbite wrote: »

Me trying to move in pvp:

look whose complaining about PvP... a well known zerger

maxjapank

Telel wrote: »

Right now there are still many many MANY players who rely on the simple tactic of 'LOLOL PROX BOMB WITH RAPIDS AND OR CLOAK" en masse. The only real counters Telel has to such people is to slow and immobilize them as often and for as long as possible. If one can't do so...well Telel goes boom and this one hates going boom.

Then you have high mobility opponents whose entire play style requires them to remain in constant motion as they murderize less skilled players. Again, removing the ability to root them with maybe one in five of those bombard shots would shift balance entirely to that play style which is just as easy to abuse as this one's beloved arrow spray.

There is nothing wrong with snares or slows. But you really cannot defend a skill that immobilizes without cc immunity. And if it is indeed stacking, then that's a big problem.

As a Templar, I can cast Purifying Ritual and move one yard. But then I am immobilized again. So cast Purifying again...move one yard...and get immobilzed again. I can't use an Immovable pot because that doesn't cover being Immobilized. Go figure. As for Purge, well...you actually cannnot even move one yard before being immobilized again.

The only skill that I know of that can counter Bombard is Shuffle. And that's it. Are you suggesting that all Magicka builds use Shuffle?

Zheg

maxjapank wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Right now there are still many many MANY players who rely on the simple tactic of 'LOLOL PROX BOMB WITH RAPIDS AND OR CLOAK" en masse. The only real counters Telel has to such people is to slow and immobilize them as often and for as long as possible. If one can't do so...well Telel goes boom and this one hates going boom.

Then you have high mobility opponents whose entire play style requires them to remain in constant motion as they murderize less skilled players. Again, removing the ability to root them with maybe one in five of those bombard shots would shift balance entirely to that play style which is just as easy to abuse as this one's beloved arrow spray.

There is nothing wrong with snares or slows. But you really cannot defend a skill that immobilizes without cc immunity. And if it is indeed stacking, then that's a big problem.

As a Templar, I can cast Purifying Ritual and move one yard. But then I am immobilized again. So cast Purifying again...move one yard...and get immobilzed again. I can't use an Immovable pot because that doesn't cover being Immobilized. Go figure. As for Purge, well...you actually cannnot even move one yard before being immobilized again.

The only skill that I know of that can counter Bombard is Shuffle. And that's it. Are you suggesting that all Magicka builds use Shuffle?

You can also use momentum (its the other morph of rally). In fact, I run this on my healer when I'm not feeling like sword and board. It's still annoying as eff though and Wrobel should have implemented some kind of fix weeks ago.

maxjapank

Zheg wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Telel wrote: »

Right now there are still many many MANY players who rely on the simple tactic of 'LOLOL PROX BOMB WITH RAPIDS AND OR CLOAK" en masse. The only real counters Telel has to such people is to slow and immobilize them as often and for as long as possible. If one can't do so...well Telel goes boom and this one hates going boom.

Then you have high mobility opponents whose entire play style requires them to remain in constant motion as they murderize less skilled players. Again, removing the ability to root them with maybe one in five of those bombard shots would shift balance entirely to that play style which is just as easy to abuse as this one's beloved arrow spray.

There is nothing wrong with snares or slows. But you really cannot defend a skill that immobilizes without cc immunity. And if it is indeed stacking, then that's a big problem.

As a Templar, I can cast Purifying Ritual and move one yard. But then I am immobilized again. So cast Purifying again...move one yard...and get immobilzed again. I can't use an Immovable pot because that doesn't cover being Immobilized. Go figure. As for Purge, well...you actually cannnot even move one yard before being immobilized again.

The only skill that I know of that can counter Bombard is Shuffle. And that's it. Are you suggesting that all Magicka builds use Shuffle?

You can also use momentum (its the other morph of rally). In fact, I run this on my healer when I'm not feeling like sword and board. It's still annoying as eff though and Wrobel should have implemented some kind of fix weeks ago.

Omg. I have to run a two-hander? Thanks for the info, though. Didn't know the other morph.

Nifty2g

game has taken a disgusting turn with snares.

*** stupid

Teridaxus

Lets nerf talons instead!

elbiw

With multiple bombards, one is often also unable to swap bars .This is a bug, if bombard is a soft cc or immobilise, weapon swapping should never be affected

Zakazh

This is clearly beyond annoying to anyone who PvP/RvRs in this game, but we all know RvR changes take *YEARS* in this game, so don't anybody get your hopes too high.

Also, @RinaldoGandolphi, thank you for being generally lucid in bringing this up once again, but most peoples' estimation of your general intellect level plunged when we realized that you don't know the difference between the words "your" and "you're". Here, let me help:

grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/youre_your.htm

RinaldoGandolphi

Zakazh wrote: »

This is clearly beyond annoying to anyone who PvP/RvRs in this game, but we all know RvR changes take *YEARS* in this game, so don't anybody get your hopes too high.

Also, @RinaldoGandolphi, thank you for being generally lucid in bringing this up once again, but most peoples' estimation of your general intellect level plunged when we realized that you don't know the difference between the words "your" and "you're". Here, let me help:

grammar-monster.com/easily_confused/youre_your.htm

Seeing as I typed this from my IPhone,which the autocorrect obviously used the wrong spelling of the word,I actually fixed it.

Since your wanting to be a grammar pro, it has been changed to the correct use of you are" for clarity.

The fact you even bring this up is so bush league it's pathetic. I hope you enjoy derailing threads. You can Atleast say your good at that.

HoloYoitsu

elbiw wrote: »

With multiple bombards, one is often also unable to swap bars .This is a bug, if bombard is a soft cc or immobilise, weapon swapping should never be affected

Forget wep swap, I can't even use skills.

Vangy

If I cant spam snares how am I going to stop that 20 man proxy det zerg from just rushing through and blowing me up =(
Not to mention the rain of unreflectable meteors that is also headed my way =( =( =(

no snares = vangy X.X ( K.O)

maxjapank

Vangy wrote: »

If I cant spam snares how am I going to stop that 20 man proxy det zerg from just rushing through and blowing me up =(
Not to mention the rain of unreflectable meteors that is also headed my way =( =( =(

no snares = vangy X.X ( K.O)

Once again, snares are fine. It's the Immobilization that needs cc immunity.

FriedEggSandwich

L2Pissue wrote: »

themdogesbite wrote: »

Me trying to move in pvp:

look whose complaining about PvP... a well known zerger

Well that was uneccesary. It seems you're quite happy to derail a thread and make a spectacle of yourself just to farm some forum xp.

Vangy

maxjapank wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

If I cant spam snares how am I going to stop that 20 man proxy det zerg from just rushing through and blowing me up =(
Not to mention the rain of unreflectable meteors that is also headed my way =( =( =(

no snares = vangy X.X ( K.O)

Once again, snares are fine. It's the Immobilization that needs cc immunity.

Me dont gets it.... So if I use bombard and snare a group of 10 proxy detters, they get immunity, then I use bombard again = no effect? That would make me a sad vangy.... Especally since as a stam toon bombard is one of the only ways I can slow them down short of caltrops... And not everyone has access to caltrops =(

Also, does maneuvers not work against snares/roots anymore?? It probably wont work in combat since you would have heals/damage ticking.. But then if snares/roots give immunity then we need bombard to do something like root when someone has no CC immunity and snare people by like 60% if they have CC immunity. I would find that as an acceptable middle ground. Flat out making bombard useless would make me very sad. There would be no stopping the 40 man zerg armies running around with 40 dets...

maxjapank

"Vangy wrote: »

Me dont gets it.... So if I use bombard and snare a group of 10 proxy detters, they get immunity, then I use bombard again = no effect? That would make me a sad vangy.... Especally since as a stam toon bombard is one of the only ways I can slow them down short of caltrops... And not everyone has access to caltrops =(

On a sidenote, I dont see what the issue is with snares... Dosent rapid maneuver provide immunity to snares?

Bombard has two components. The first is that it Immobilizes the opponent for 3 seconds. The second is that it applies a movement speed reduction ( a snare) for 5 secs after the opponent is free to move again. It's the first component that is the problem. Not the second. I can purge the Immobilzation part of the spell. But when someone is spamming Bombard, it just reapplies the Immobilzation again. There is no way to move at all.

A stamina build can run Shuffle and be immune to it. And as you mentioned, everyone has access to Rapid Maneuvers. And before TG, we could at least heal and keep our immunity until we used an attacking spell. But TG messed that all up. Rapid Maneuvers breaks on any spell you cast. And the saddest thing is it isn't bugged. Rapid was changed that way on purpose.

What we are seeing now, is full raids with dedicated Bombard spammers. That's all they do. While 10-20 proxy detters are charging in to you, those 3-5 Bombard spammers are making sure that you cannot get away.

Being slowed or snared at least gives you some movement to spread out or line of sight. But being unable to move your character at all is no fun. It would actually be better to give Bombard a stun so that I could at least Break Free and have some cc immunity. Or...make Immobilization a hard cc.

Vangy

maxjapank wrote: »

"Vangy wrote: »

Me dont gets it.... So if I use bombard and snare a group of 10 proxy detters, they get immunity, then I use bombard again = no effect? That would make me a sad vangy.... Especally since as a stam toon bombard is one of the only ways I can slow them down short of caltrops... And not everyone has access to caltrops =(

On a sidenote, I dont see what the issue is with snares... Dosent rapid maneuver provide immunity to snares?

Bombard has two components. The first is that it Immobilizes the opponent for 3 seconds. The second is that it applies a movement speed reduction ( a snare) for 5 secs after the opponent is free to move again. It's the first component that is the problem. Not the second. I can purge the Immobilzation part of the spell. But when someone is spamming Bombard, it just reapplies the Immobilzation again. There is no way to move at all.

A stamina build can run Shuffle and be immune to it. And as you mentioned, everyone has access to Rapid Maneuvers. And before TG, we could at least heal and keep our immunity until we used an attacking spell. But TG messed that all up. Rapid Maneuvers breaks on any spell you cast. And the saddest thing is it isn't bugged. Rapid was changed that way on purpose.

What we are seeing now, is full raids with dedicated Bombard spammers. That's all they do. While 10-20 proxy detters are charging in to you, those 3-5 Bombard spammers are making sure that you cannot get away.

Being slowed or snared at least gives you some movement to spread out or line of sight. But being unable to move your character at all is no fun. It would actually be better to give Bombard a stun so that I could at least Break Free and have some cc immunity. Or...make Immobilization a hard cc.

Ah then the solution to me is clear;

Revert rapids to what it was before. I dont know if proxy armed on yourself/on the enemy (for inevitable morph) was counted as an offensive spell, but it SHOULD NOW. Way too many zergs running that trash. So in Vangy's perfect world bombard vs rapids would work like this;

scenario 1:

Group A running away casts rapids. Group B spamming bombard cannot stop group A from running/gaining some distance.

scenario 2:

Group A arms proxy and wants to rush group B. Group B spams bombard and snares group A over and over again. Rapids does not help group A proxy bum rush group B.

Strangely enough this is how things work now yes? As long as the group doesnt cast anything they are free to use rapids to retreat/advance yes? So if someone is bombard spamming you, just cast rapids and get some distance before counter attacking?? Or is there something im failing to understand? I dont run in big groups so im not sure if things like HOTs casted before turning on rapids would make rapids go away etc. Imo it shouldnt. Heals casted before the use of rapids should not dispell rapids. Only offensive skills such as proxy, curse or any other damaging abilities and heals used after rapids should make rapids dispell.