When Are MMOs (ESO) Going to Evolve Passed the Cookie Cutter...

Ethromelb14_ESO

Mission system?

I want the option to say NO to a mission and NPC and still have the interaction connect somehow in my play-through, be rewarded and immersed for the negative reply that I give.

Let's say I'm tired of retrieving ingredients like an errand-boy on 80% of the missions, I do all the time, and/or killing anyone - so I say no. Maybe have friends of that NPC come after me in the open-world, because they think I'm to blame for their -whatever- failing. Maybe they're jealous that I helped someone they know, and by reputation they expect me to do the same for them, but I deny them my help because I don't believe in their cause - now they have misplaced anger.

Maybe saying no to someone gets a bounty placed on my head, and now I have to come back to the NPC and demand they remove the bounty or I kill them. Maybe they can take someone important I know hostage, to force my hand, and now I have a choice. Do I rescue my friend from difficult odds or just do the job and be done with it? Or perhaps I go a different route and kidnap someone they know as well, and then we do an exchange, then go our separate ways.

This is what I consider real Elder Scroll choices and immersion. Set timers so that some missions will only be available at a certain time of day. Go for depth ZoS... And for all that's holy ... If you're going to have my character being insulted 90% of my game play, allow my character to have its own rebuttals that actually get a response from the npc, inciting them to either violence, fear, or laughter because they see I'm no coward. Something! Something beyond this 500th mission of go there, fetch this and kill them.

WalkingLegacy

I am tired of walking five steps away from quest giver to pick something up for that lazy sob.

Or going to the other side of town because that NPC can't walk across town themselves.

Not sure I want a bounty on my head though for telling NPCs no.

Cadbury

I want the option of killing the quest-giver if they anger me. Actually, I want the option to kill.

AbraXuSeXile

MMOs devolved since WOW

NewBlacksmurf

I think you want a non server based game.

Limitations of letting hundreds of thousands of ppl to do the same things all at once

Just get a single player RPG

khele23eb17_ESO

Try SWTOR, there are plenty of darkside storyline options there.

Vangy

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

If you're going to have my character being insulted 90% of my game play, allow my character to have its own rebuttals that actually get a response from the npc, inciting them to either violence, fear, or laughter because they see I'm no coward. Something! Something beyond this 500th mission of go there, fetch this and kill them.

+1

Snowstrider

MMOS have changed some more Than others

Duiwel

OP ever heard of grinding? I have long hated quests ( since years and years of playing RPG games I think I have done enough go from X to Y and give A to B then come back to C for the rewards before speaking to D for the next quest in the train that is inevitably the most boring chain of quests you will find ( not referring to this game I am referring to most games ).

This is also not to insult the quest creators many of the stories & quests that have been made in many games are great, but let's be real after about 10-15 years of gaming most of it has been done... So I just want to skip it.

Heck I don't even listen to dungeon quests anymore I just spam E and go right in ( it's funny how I have changed in the past 8 years ) use to be I would listen so attentively that I would sometimes close the conversation bubble just to listen to it all again because it fascinated me...

So yeah Grinding is your salvation OP!

Killing people would be nice too tbh... Oh you have something I need, but you want me to do something for you first ? ( AND there are no witnesses about? ) ..must be my lucky day ( Sithis is proud of my actions )

Oh_Skrivva

Mass effect would be the game you play. The more evil you decisions are the more your appearance changes to a sinister form

vontariel

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Mission system?

I want the option to say NO to a mission and NPC and still have the interaction connect somehow in my play-through, be rewarded and immersed for the negative reply that I give.

Let's say I'm tired of retrieving ingredients like an errand-boy on 80% of the missions, I do all the time, and/or killing anyone - so I say no. Maybe have friends of that NPC come after me in the open-world, because they think I'm to blame for their -whatever- failing. Maybe they're jealous that I helped someone they know, and by reputation they expect me to do the same for them, but I deny them my help because I don't believe in their cause - now they have misplaced anger.

Maybe saying no to someone gets a bounty placed on my head, and now I have to come back to the NPC and demand they remove the bounty or I kill them. Maybe they can take someone important I know hostage, to force my hand, and now I have a choice. Do I rescue my friend from difficult odds or just do the job and be done with it? Or perhaps I go a different route and kidnap someone they know as well, and then we do an exchange, then go our separate ways.

This is what I consider real Elder Scroll choices and immersion. Set timers so that some missions will only be available at a certain time of day. Go for depth ZoS... And for all that's holy ... If you're going to have my character being insulted 90% of my game play, allow my character to have its own rebuttals that actually get a response from the npc, inciting them to either violence, fear, or laughter because they see I'm no coward. Something! Something beyond this 500th mission of go there, fetch this and kill them.

Sorry that kind of things are only in indie, old games (original fallout games comes to my mind) or witcher. Maybe something would change in that direction after W3, but i highly doubt it. It's MUCH easier to make dumb fetch quest, one dimensional NPCs with one liners, patch it up and call it a day, than making an effort to create something...i don't know, great, epic?

phaneub17_ESO

My first play through, I chose all the good things. Second playthrough I killed a lot of people and took the greedy route knowing most of what I picked does not carry over except a few areas, not that they were that useful when they did help.

Lolssi

That is actually issue with games more than MMOs. Even very few rpgs pull of situations where not doing anything has consequenses. I think Witcher 3 had some and I'm having high hopes for Cyberpunk.
In my opinion ESO is doing great job for an MMO.

WillhelmBlack

I cant remember any quests in this game. I came for the group dungeons, exploration and PvP. Imo that's what Zos should be concentrating on right now. More dungeons and more places to PvP.

IC was dreadful. I liked the Orsinium DLC for the exploration and atmosphere but didn't pay attention to the quests unfortunately, I would have maybe if I had done it on my Orc but he's VR3 and I don't want a load of useless VR3 rewards. ZOS's priorities are just wrong, they wanna push out all this content when they haven't even removed VR yet. TG, I tried a bit in PTS but I almost one shot one of the bosses and turned it off, it seriously would have sent me to sleep. I watched the ESO live where they were showcasing the sneak around solo quest things and that put me off almost instantly, I just had to try a bit of PTS first. TG had a bit of incentive at first, those little chests of loot but people cried and got them nerfed for some bizarre reason.

ESO is actively going down the line of cookie cutter. Money first, repeat content over and over.

Darkonflare15

Evolve? How? I seriously doubt what people want from this is really practical in a MMO let alone this one. I also doubt this game would really handle it without breaking down because it changed too much.

WhimsyDragon

That sort of dynamic is interesting but would also make a lot of other players angry... but yes, it's definitely something to think about. ESO rarely has you make significant choices with consequences and sometimes I feel at odds with a quest, but do it anyhow because it won't matter. That said, in terms of quest quality, I think that ESO is typically better than a lot of MMOs. Sometimes there IS an NPC that makes you bring him ingredients for a special cake, BUT for the most part, quests are more complex than 5 minute fetch and kill tasks. They have more of an ongoing story, more parts to accomplish. Sometimes I'll be thinking that I'm just gonna do one more quest before logging off and it turns into a lengthy situation. They aren't all great, but more of them are memorable imo.

aubrey.baconb16_ESO

Kingdom Come: Deliverance may go towards giving what you are looking for but it's a stand along RPG.

ESO quests are standard fare and principally give an opportunity to practice skills whilst levelling up. They get a bit tedious the umpteenth time around and there are other ways of levelling once you're into the game.

RebornV3x

If MMOs havent evolved by now they never will with gaming as casual as it today game developers have no incentive to try new things or expand and can play it safe. In the last few years we've seen some of the most mediocre games not bad games but not good either *cough* Destiny same old Call of Duty sell tens of millions of games I swear most game companies could sell static and still make a few million until gamers start expecting more with our wallets then maybe well get something cool like this

ADarklore

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I cant remember any quests in this game. I came for the group dungeons, exploration and PvP. Imo that's what Zos should be concentrating on right now. More dungeons and more places to PvP.

Must it always be repeated that PvP players are the minority in this game... so just because you are a PvP-centric player doesn't mean everyone else is. The game is focused were ZOS knows the majority of ESO players are playing, they're not going to devote time, effort and money to resources for a minority of players that will always complain no matter what- which is the PvP crowd. Whereas the majority of PvE-centric players may complain from time to time, overall they're pretty happy with the game and the direction of its focus.

As far as VR removal, ZOS has said a long time ago that it would take time because it is a major undertaking. However, it is expected to be done when DB is released, at least that was the last update we've had on VR removal progress.

Samadhi

Would like the ability to say "No" to Cadwell and Meridia when they want me to go hallucinate about saving the enemy alliances, but still receive an EXP dump comparable to having finished the entire ten zones.

Eshelmen

But it's not an MMO

srfrogg23

Ethromelb14_ESO wrote: »

Mission system?

I want the option to say NO to a mission and NPC and still have the interaction connect somehow in my play-through, be rewarded and immersed for the negative reply that I give.

Let's say I'm tired of retrieving ingredients like an errand-boy on 80% of the missions, I do all the time, and/or killing anyone - so I say no. Maybe have friends of that NPC come after me in the open-world, because they think I'm to blame for their -whatever- failing. Maybe they're jealous that I helped someone they know, and by reputation they expect me to do the same for them, but I deny them my help because I don't believe in their cause - now they have misplaced anger.

Maybe saying no to someone gets a bounty placed on my head, and now I have to come back to the NPC and demand they remove the bounty or I kill them. Maybe they can take someone important I know hostage, to force my hand, and now I have a choice. Do I rescue my friend from difficult odds or just do the job and be done with it? Or perhaps I go a different route and kidnap someone they know as well, and then we do an exchange, then go our separate ways.

This is what I consider real Elder Scroll choices and immersion. Set timers so that some missions will only be available at a certain time of day. Go for depth ZoS... And for all that's holy ... If you're going to have my character being insulted 90% of my game play, allow my character to have its own rebuttals that actually get a response from the npc, inciting them to either violence, fear, or laughter because they see I'm no coward. Something! Something beyond this 500th mission of go there, fetch this and kill them.

That actually sounds like a cool idea. Granted it's really only an illusion of choice, it would still beef up the immersion factor. I really liked it in Mass Effect and I think this kind of Paragon/Renegade choice system would be a good system for ESO.

It would also make leveling alts much more interesting - "hmm, I said yes to this guy on my last character, what would happen if I told them no this time?"

WillhelmBlack

ADarklore wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I cant remember any quests in this game. I came for the group dungeons, exploration and PvP. Imo that's what Zos should be concentrating on right now. More dungeons and more places to PvP.

Must it always be repeated that PvP players are the minority in this game... so just because you are a PvP-centric player doesn't mean everyone else is. The game is focused were ZOS knows the majority of ESO players are playing, they're not going to devote time, effort and money to resources for a minority of players that will always complain no matter what- which is the PvP crowd. Whereas the majority of PvE-centric players may complain from time to time, overall they're pretty happy with the game and the direction of its focus.

As far as VR removal, ZOS has said a long time ago that it would take time because it is a major undertaking. However, it is expected to be done when DB is released, at least that was the last update we've had on VR removal progress.

That's blatantly obvious but if ZOS want players to come back and attract new MMO players, they need to solve the server problems and make more content ie Capture the flag, PvP dungeons, duels and arenas. Content like this would pull in the MMO crowd AND satisfy existing players.

Not all PvP players just do PvP.

500 ping in Darkshade Caverns. That doesn't affect you?? How about the 300 ping in Auridon or 450 ping in Maw of Lorkhaj? Or is that not PvE? This is PvP lagging the server, more things to do in PvP would break up some of the zergs and lag. Whatever, you're happy with that.

This game is looking to replace the ES series, it should be looking to be the best MMO there ever was. I like my ES games, I don't want that.

dodgehopper_ESO

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Try SWTOR, there are plenty of darkside storyline options there.

Actually, I find you get railroaded into more 'darkside' options in this game than 'light side' ones. Often there is no choice at all.

Uriel_Nocturne

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

MMOs devolved since WOW

Agreed.

And while my opinion might not be well received, I'm going to post it anyway.

MMO's started out very unique and diverse. Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, even WoW started out pretty unique. But it's when they added PvP that the "cookie cutter" came about.

Then we had posts whining about "balance" simply because someone had more/better gear than another person had. Skill got relegated to simply "your gear makes you good, but you personally suck" arguments were/are springing up all over the place... and the nerf train rolled out of the station to pacify this minority of any games player base.

Because of all of those, MMO's started all looking and behaving the same. A new MMO will launch, and PvE players will flock to it for a new story and new Quests. PvP players go to it because it's the "shiny new thing" on the block. But then the PvP crowd starts with the whine. Nerfs and unnecessary changes are made to try to pacify PvP players that simply cannot ever be pleased. Anytime they die it's because of "imbalance", because perish the very idea that someone might be better than they are at the game...

Then the argument started appearing (authored almost exclusively by PvP players) that it is PvP and PvP alone that allows games to last for years... arguments made by those very same people who say that, then leave the game to go to the next shiny new game to ruin that MMO.

As I've said, I've been playing MMO's since they first emerged. Just from what I've seen over 20+ years of playing MMOs, it is PvP that drives most MMO's downhill, ruins the game play and equipment, and ultimately turns the game into a carbon copy of every other game on the market.

IMO; PvP could evaporate from every single MMO overnight (hopefully tonight... :P), and those MMO's would drastically improve because of PvP going away. It's PvP that has ruined most every single MMO that has failed.

If you want PvP; get into MOBA's or FPS's. Those games are tailored specifically to the PvP mindset. But MMO's? There's no place for PvP in an MMO.

WillhelmBlack

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

AbraXuSeXile wrote: »

MMOs devolved since WOW

Agreed.

And while my opinion might not be well received, I'm going to post it anyway.

MMO's started out very unique and diverse. Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, even WoW started out pretty unique. But it's when they added PvP that the "cookie cutter" came about.

Then we had posts whining about "balance" simply because someone had more/better gear than another person had. Skill got relegated to simply "your gear makes you good, but you personally suck" arguments were/are springing up all over the place... and the nerf train rolled out of the station to pacify this minority of any games player base.

Because of all of those, MMO's started all looking and behaving the same. A new MMO will launch, and PvE players will flock to it for a new story and new Quests. PvP players go to it because it's the "shiny new thing" on the block. But then the PvP crowd starts with the whine. Nerfs and unnecessary changes are made to try to pacify PvP players that simply cannot ever be pleased. Anytime they die it's because of "imbalance", because perish the very idea that someone might be better than they are at the game...

Then the argument started appearing (authored almost exclusively by PvP players) that it is PvP and PvP alone that allows games to last for years... arguments made by those very same people who say that, then leave the game to go to the next shiny new game to ruin that MMO.

As I've said, I've been playing MMO's since they first emerged. Just from what I've seen over 20+ years of playing MMOs, it is PvP that drives most MMO's downhill, ruins the game play and equipment, and ultimately turns the game into a carbon copy of every other game on the market.

IMO; PvP could evaporate from every single MMO overnight (hopefully tonight... :P), and those MMO's would drastically improve because of PvP going away. It's PvP that has ruined most every single MMO that has failed.

If you want PvP; get into MOBA's or FPS's. Those games are tailored specifically to the PvP mindset. But MMO's? There's no place for PvP in an MMO.

I'd be happy with different rulesets for PvP. PvP nerfs are screwing up PvE in this game, that's agreed. Id be happy to completely separate or even Zenimax made a separate game with this combat system. This combat system is the best I've ever played in PvP. ZOS don't seem to realise it though.

That, unfortunately though, may be the end of the single player ES series.

Kammakazi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otAkP5VjIv8

idk

I don't understand the OP. If I say no to the quest from the quest giver I've always received a just reward, nothing for nothing.

The_Great_Maldini

Cadbury wrote: »

I want the option of killing the quest-giver if they anger me. Actually, I want the option to kill.

You need some serious therapy.

notimetocare

Whenever the goal of MMOS changes from endgame/multiplayer content to singleplayer quest based content. IE when MMOs become singleplayer games.

reften

When someone implements a way to track ability usage...and as more players use an ability, the weaker it gets....and visa a versa.