Can we limit this Dodge spam bs

kadar

@laced

You are assuming you wont regen any stamina between rolls. So my maths are right sweety.

I did not assume you won't regen Stamina. Ofc, you will. I assumed you're Stamina Regen was only 500-1000, seeing that you're a Magicka build w/ only 10k Stamina.
In which case you still couldn't complete 4 rolls each immediately after the other.

1) 3000 * .33 = 990
2) 3990 * .33 = 1317
3) 5307 * .33 = 1751
4) 7058

Total = 19,355 Stamina. So unless you're Regenerating 9, 355 Stamina in the span of 4 rolls....

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

Well the only thing I see wrong with dodge roll is how it dodges literally infinite attacks with one roll. There is nothing more annoying then "that guy" rolling away from a small group as 6 people all miss at once. Maybe they could make it so dodge roll has a max number of dodges before you start getting hit in mid roll. I think 2-3 attacks would be reasonable because when you got a small army chasing you really could not possibly roll out of every single attack. I think the reason why things like roll and streak are so annoying is because of how they are get out of jail free cards alot of times when being out numbered to a ridiculous degree. They both work fine in a 1v1, but when you can get away from a zerg by stringing a few rolls or streaks it gets stupid.

I think that would be the best nerf if it got any, but tbh my only max level character is a stam nb so I don't really want to get nerfed. I know I have managed to roll back to a keep door SO MANY times when I was caught out by a large group just by rolling like three times up to the door. It really shouldn't be that way and we should be punished for bad positioning and not be able to escape unscathed from 10 guys.

Jade1986

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Well the only thing I see wrong with dodge roll is how it dodges literally infinite attacks with one roll. There is nothing more annoying then "that guy" rolling away from a small group as 6 people all miss at once. Maybe they could make it so dodge roll has a max number of dodges before you start getting hit in mid roll. I think 2-3 attacks would be reasonable because when you got a small army chasing you really could not possibly roll out of every single attack. I think the reason why things like roll and streak are so annoying is because of how they are get out of jail free cards alot of times when being out numbered to a ridiculous degree. They both work fine in a 1v1, but when you can get away from a zerg by stringing a few rolls or streaks it gets stupid.

I think that would be the best nerf if it got any, but tbh my only max level character is a stam nb so I don't really want to get nerfed. I know I have managed to roll back to a keep door SO MANY times when I was caught out by a large group just by rolling like three times up to the door. It really shouldn't be that way and we should be punished for bad positioning and not be able to escape unscathed from 10 guys.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Why should you be able to dodge roll, regen stam, and avaoid all damage from 30 enemies, and sword and shield players cant even block and regen stam?

Lokey0024

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

The extra Dodge roll cost hurts magicka builds waaay more than stamina build.
My Sorc gets one Dodge roll, two max, then I'm borderline unable to break CCs.

Just made a stamina DK, he can roll forever with 40k stamina and 1750 recovery. Granted I'm capped for champion points, but I seriously rolled from DC home base in the sewers to the bloodfiend spawn at level 10. Come on now lol.

Yea show me a VR16 DK with 40k stamina and 1750 recovery the voodoo you can do with Battle Level and CP is not admissible for any argument.

Imp dk moldukin/shieldbreaker 5pc 3pc leki 3pc agi only using 2h/bow. Dmg on 2 jewlry recov on other tower mundus. Around 40k

Valencer

Lowbie chars get roll dodge cost reduction. My lvl 13 mag DK has a roll dodge cost of 1-1.5k stamina. Maybe that's what's troubling you too.

kadar

Valencer wrote: »

Lowbie chars get roll dodge cost reduction. My lvl 13 mag DK has a roll dodge cost of 1-1.5k stamina. Maybe that's what's troubling you too.

Ya, dodge roll cost goes up as you level.

Zyle

Didn't think it was possible to see a nerf dodge roll thread after dodge roll was nerfed with stacking cost. You learn something new everyday!

kadar

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Well the only thing I see wrong with dodge roll is how it dodges literally infinite attacks with one roll. There is nothing more annoying then "that guy" rolling away from a small group as 6 people all miss at once. Maybe they could make it so dodge roll has a max number of dodges before you start getting hit in mid roll. I think 2-3 attacks would be reasonable because when you got a small army chasing you really could not possibly roll out of every single attack. I think the reason why things like roll and streak are so annoying is because of how they are get out of jail free cards alot of times when being out numbered to a ridiculous degree. They both work fine in a 1v1, but when you can get away from a zerg by stringing a few rolls or streaks it gets stupid.

I think that would be the best nerf if it got any, but tbh my only max level character is a stam nb so I don't really want to get nerfed. I know I have managed to roll back to a keep door SO MANY times when I was caught out by a large group just by rolling like three times up to the door. It really shouldn't be that way and we should be punished for bad positioning and not be able to escape unscathed from 10 guys.

Isn't it exactly this line of reasoning that gives us AOE caps? The Zerg already has EVERY advantage. It already has the advantage of, you know, being in a Zerg. Don't Nerf our survivability tools to the point where we have to huddle like penguin balls just to stay alive.

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

The_Outsider wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Well the only thing I see wrong with dodge roll is how it dodges literally infinite attacks with one roll. There is nothing more annoying then "that guy" rolling away from a small group as 6 people all miss at once. Maybe they could make it so dodge roll has a max number of dodges before you start getting hit in mid roll. I think 2-3 attacks would be reasonable because when you got a small army chasing you really could not possibly roll out of every single attack. I think the reason why things like roll and streak are so annoying is because of how they are get out of jail free cards alot of times when being out numbered to a ridiculous degree. They both work fine in a 1v1, but when you can get away from a zerg by stringing a few rolls or streaks it gets stupid.

I think that would be the best nerf if it got any, but tbh my only max level character is a stam nb so I don't really want to get nerfed. I know I have managed to roll back to a keep door SO MANY times when I was caught out by a large group just by rolling like three times up to the door. It really shouldn't be that way and we should be punished for bad positioning and not be able to escape unscathed from 10 guys.

Isn't it exactly this line of reasoning that gives us AOE caps? The Zerg already has EVERY advantage. It already has the advantage of, you know, being in a Zerg. Don't Nerf our survivability tools to the point where we have to huddle like penguin balls just to stay alive.

Nah these are totally different issues, aoe cap =/= dodge rolling. Wouldn't even hurt your survivability if you stay smart and don't jump into a zerg expecting to be able to roll to safety. You would just have to adapt that is all or go tank if you want to survive the hordes. Like I said though I don't even want a nerf, but in a hypothetical situation where zos had to take action against dodge rolls a nerf like that wouldn't be so bad and I could live with it. Now some people want no stam regen and things that would KILL the playstyle, so got to offer something as an alternative right?

Therium104

JDC1985 wrote: »

Really your going to cry about dodge rolling whats next you going to complain that people don't stand still and fight back? I know no dodges rolls stand still and when you face someone they need to turn and face away from you with one hand tied behind their back.

I idea behind the dodge roll nerfs was to make dodge rolling less common and more situational. Instead you now only have stam users dodge rolling all over cyrodil and magic users very limited.

TheDarkShadow

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Nah these are totally different issues, aoe cap =/= dodge rolling. Wouldn't even hurt your survivability if you stay smart and don't jump into a zerg expecting to be able to roll to safety. You would just have to adapt that is all or go tank if you want to survive the hordes. Like I said though I don't even want a nerf, but in a hypothetical situation where zos had to take action against dodge rolls a nerf like that wouldn't be so bad and I could live with it. Now some people want no stam regen and things that would KILL the playstyle, so got to offer something as an alternative right?

It's not easy to just roll out of a zerg like you think. If someone build for perma dodge, they won't have enough damage to dive into the zerg and kill someone. If they build for damage to kill someone in the middle of their zerg, they won't have much regen to perma dodge. Also, there is a small vulnerable window between each dodge roll, even if you're spamming dodge roll back to back (unless you wear crusader set). You can be hit, cc, gap close... during that window. That's why people spambush or whatever gap close. There're also channel and AoE that hit thru dodge roll. 30m Radiant Destruction anyone? If the zerg just stand there and spam projectiles because you're all too scared to charge after that guy deeper into the enemy line, then it's your choice. Playing a melee build have their risk. Melee build have to put themselves in the heat of zerg. The moment you show up for a kill, there will be 10 guys target you. Dodge roll is the only way to get out of that. If you ruin melee build only way to survive, everyone will snipe, frag, dark flare, radiant destruction you from 30m away. You kill a play style (melee) and then what? Make more nerf thread to cry about snipe/frag/dark flare/radiant destruction? Because that will be the new meta and that will be the skills that kill you the most, just like the alchemist + gap close + VD + Prox Det into the zerg and kill someone then slip away right now.

Vangy

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

The extra Dodge roll cost hurts magicka builds waaay more than stamina build.
My Sorc gets one Dodge roll, two max, then I'm borderline unable to break CCs.

Just made a stamina DK, he can roll forever with 40k stamina and 1750 recovery. Granted I'm capped for champion points, but I seriously rolled from DC home base in the sewers to the bloodfiend spawn at level 10. Come on now lol.

Yea show me a VR16 DK with 40k stamina and 1750 recovery the voodoo you can do with Battle Level and CP is not admissible for any argument.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

The extra Dodge roll cost hurts magicka builds waaay more than stamina build.
My Sorc gets one Dodge roll, two max, then I'm borderline unable to break CCs.

Just made a stamina DK, he can roll forever with 40k stamina and 1750 recovery. Granted I'm capped for champion points, but I seriously rolled from DC home base in the sewers to the bloodfiend spawn at level 10. Come on now lol.

Yea show me a VR16 DK with 40k stamina and 1750 recovery the voodoo you can do with Battle Level and CP is not admissible for any argument.

Uhm, My imperial dk at v16 with all gold gear has a full dps set for PvP with 4k weapon damage, 37k stam and around 1.4k stam recovery. Pretty close but Im sure I can get it higher with more CP and if i swap out of engin 2 piece to 1 bloodspawn/1 kena. But I prefer engin very much =D

tonemd

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Nah these are totally different issues, aoe cap =/= dodge rolling. Wouldn't even hurt your survivability if you stay smart and don't jump into a zerg expecting to be able to roll to safety. You would just have to adapt that is all or go tank if you want to survive the hordes. Like I said though I don't even want a nerf, but in a hypothetical situation where zos had to take action against dodge rolls a nerf like that wouldn't be so bad and I could live with it. Now some people want no stam regen and things that would KILL the playstyle, so got to offer something as an alternative right?

It's not easy to just roll out of a zerg like you think. If someone build for perma dodge, they won't have enough damage to dive into the zerg and kill someone. If they build for damage to kill someone in the middle of their zerg, they won't have much regen to perma dodge. Also, there is a small vulnerable window between each dodge roll, even if you're spamming dodge roll back to back (unless you wear crusader set). You can be hit, cc, gap close... during that window. That's why people spambush or whatever gap close. There're also channel and AoE that hit thru dodge roll. 30m Radiant Destruction anyone? If the zerg just stand there and spam projectiles because you're all too scared to charge after that guy deeper into the enemy line, then it's your choice. Playing a melee build have their risk. Melee build have to put themselves in the heat of zerg. The moment you show up for a kill, there will be 10 guys target you. Dodge roll is the only way to get out of that. If you ruin melee build only way to survive, everyone will snipe, frag, dark flare, radiant destruction you from 30m away. You kill a play style (melee) and then what? Make more nerf thread to cry about snipe/frag/dark flare/radiant destruction? Because that will be the new meta and that will be the skills that kill you the most, just like the alchemist + gap close + VD + Prox Det into the zerg and kill someone then slip away right now.

Listen to this man, least your invoke the return of the bowtards.
With this Marksman set they are already starting to comeback.
Soon we'll all just be throwing crap at each other, like crapping throwing monkeys.

Therium104

Come on man. There is no way the devs will do this.... I mean how is a NB supposed to constantly avoid damage from 10 to 20 people and be unkillable. It would be unfair for them to die like a Magic DK. This is all skill my Brother. You gots to the L to the TWO to the play play. Lets not forget the NB has to kill the players while infinity dodge rolling and never taking damage. Add on VD and bam. The definition of skill. Anything else is bad balance. Small team play my man.

Can you imagine a group of NB colloborating on pvp techniques.

NB #1: "Yea man, I totally dodge rolled all over the place. Hit my stealth button. Spammed Y button and killed this dude with my skill based button spamming. It was totally unfair because he was not close enough for VD to wipe the entire group. Yea man, bummer dude. It was only 10 players"

NB #2: "Dude. I did the same thing but totally spammed the B button. I know man. Totally radical approach. I was worried when my health dropped below 90%. I mean it was only 15 players. I sent in a totally rad suggestion to look at dodge rolling because I took some damage."

Sad but true.....

caeliusstarbreaker

This thread is ripe with "video game socialist nonsense." If you have a problem with dodge roll, just put a CC or damage ability that goes through dodge roll.

Meteor
Dawnbreaker
Streak
V-curse
Radiant
Luminous shards
Fear
Invigorating drain
Fossilize
Reverb bash

If you just can't be bothered to slot any of these things, than you really don't have a reason to complain.

If you just can't be bothered to slot a CC at all, you need to learn to play.

If you envy what another classes or what other builds were built to do, then build similar, reroll or find another game that better suites your ideals.

For the same reasons you think they shouldn't be able to dodge attacks are the same reasons why you shouldn't be able to (hypothetically) dodge roll like a stam nb on a magicka dk. Just stop guys.

There is never going to be this bizarre concept of balance that some of you have, in any game mind you, where there is zero yin or yang, give and take, push and pull... There will always be sacrifice and strength.

If you can't kill someone 6v1 you really need to reevaluate your skill level and play style, or give props to the 1 player able to do that or both. Maybe not feed right into exactly what he wants.... You to follow him behind that rock. If you're in a group and getting mad at some guy who is rolling, and spamming and ability on you till you die when you spamming an ability doesn't kill him... You really need to reevaluate what you are doing because there are plenty of counters to dodge.

Can we all respectfully cut the crap already with this my magicka should be able to do what your stamina can, my stamina should be able to stack shields and heal like what your magicka can and blah blah blah .... To include this mantra of "Nerf (this) cause I don't/can't do it and people should think before they act, but I'm not people ... I should just win all the time, but seriously screw that guy it shouldn't be allowed."


(End rant)


Also given the tone of people in here, and examples given, your e-hate seems to be leaning towards nb specifically. So maybe think a little more on that.

heystreethawk

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

This thread is ripe with "video game socialist nonsense." If you have a problem with dodge roll, just put a CC or damage ability that goes through dodge roll.

Meteor
Dawnbreaker
Streak
V-curse
Radiant
Luminous shards
Fear
Invigorating drain
Fossilize
Reverb bash

Also: sap! Sap will hit through rolls, not to mention the rocks. Sap sap sap. Sap essence.

caeliusstarbreaker

heystreethawk wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

This thread is ripe with "video game socialist nonsense." If you have a problem with dodge roll, just put a CC or damage ability that goes through dodge roll.

Meteor
Dawnbreaker
Streak
V-curse
Radiant
Luminous shards
Fear
Invigorating drain
Fossilize
Reverb bash

Also: sap! Sap will hit through rolls, not to mention the rocks. Sap sap sap. Sap essence.

Sorry, to add
Sap
Lightening staff heavy attacks
Resto heavy attacks

AddictionX

Add a separate bar for dodging, blocking, and breaking free.

kadar

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

xxslam48xxb14_ESO wrote: »

Well the only thing I see wrong with dodge roll is how it dodges literally infinite attacks with one roll. There is nothing more annoying then "that guy" rolling away from a small group as 6 people all miss at once. Maybe they could make it so dodge roll has a max number of dodges before you start getting hit in mid roll. I think 2-3 attacks would be reasonable because when you got a small army chasing you really could not possibly roll out of every single attack. I think the reason why things like roll and streak are so annoying is because of how they are get out of jail free cards alot of times when being out numbered to a ridiculous degree. They both work fine in a 1v1, but when you can get away from a zerg by stringing a few rolls or streaks it gets stupid.

I think that would be the best nerf if it got any, but tbh my only max level character is a stam nb so I don't really want to get nerfed. I know I have managed to roll back to a keep door SO MANY times when I was caught out by a large group just by rolling like three times up to the door. It really shouldn't be that way and we should be punished for bad positioning and not be able to escape unscathed from 10 guys.

Isn't it exactly this line of reasoning that gives us AOE caps? The Zerg already has EVERY advantage. It already has the advantage of, you know, being in a Zerg. Don't Nerf our survivability tools to the point where we have to huddle like penguin balls just to stay alive.

Nah these are totally different issues, aoe cap =/= dodge rolling. Wouldn't even hurt your survivability if you stay smart and don't jump into a zerg expecting to be able to roll to safety. You would just have to adapt that is all or go tank if you want to survive the hordes. Like I said though I don't even want a nerf, but in a hypothetical situation where zos had to take action against dodge rolls a nerf like that wouldn't be so bad and I could live with it. Now some people want no stam regen and things that would KILL the playstyle, so got to offer something as an alternative right?

@xxslam48xxb14_ESO , that's not what I meant at all.

1 person dodge rolling "infinite" attacks from a large group of people is not really a problem. Consider this comparison: The large group (zerg) should not have the passive mitigation when stacking on top of each other that AOE caps provide. They already have the advantage of numbers in any conflict. Similarly, the large group (or zerg) does not need the ability to land hits after the first "2-3 attacks" miss during a Dodge Roll, because they already have the absurd advantage of numbers in that situation. Why make the larger groups job even easier than it already is? It would just be another element to ESO that forces large group play in liue of small group.

And the above hypothetical even assumes that a player COULD dodge roll indefinitely away from a zerg whilst taking no damage, which of course is not the case.

Edziu

if you have problem against stam builds with expenisve rolldodges spam

LorDrek wrote: »

In block no stamina regen, in sprint no stamina regen, in hide no stamina regen, ZOS pls completly remove stamina regen from game and completly remove stamina builds. THX this game no need stamina.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Vangy wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

The extra Dodge roll cost hurts magicka builds waaay more than stamina build.
My Sorc gets one Dodge roll, two max, then I'm borderline unable to break CCs.

Just made a stamina DK, he can roll forever with 40k stamina and 1750 recovery. Granted I'm capped for champion points, but I seriously rolled from DC home base in the sewers to the bloodfiend spawn at level 10. Come on now lol.

Yea show me a VR16 DK with 40k stamina and 1750 recovery the voodoo you can do with Battle Level and CP is not admissible for any argument.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

jyates214b14_ESO wrote: »

The extra Dodge roll cost hurts magicka builds waaay more than stamina build.
My Sorc gets one Dodge roll, two max, then I'm borderline unable to break CCs.

Just made a stamina DK, he can roll forever with 40k stamina and 1750 recovery. Granted I'm capped for champion points, but I seriously rolled from DC home base in the sewers to the bloodfiend spawn at level 10. Come on now lol.

Yea show me a VR16 DK with 40k stamina and 1750 recovery the voodoo you can do with Battle Level and CP is not admissible for any argument.

Uhm, My imperial dk at v16 with all gold gear has a full dps set for PvP with 4k weapon damage, 37k stam and around 1.4k stam recovery. Pretty close but Im sure I can get it higher with more CP and if i swap out of engin 2 piece to 1 bloodspawn/1 kena. But I prefer engin very much =D

Fair enough.

Therium104 wrote: »

Come on man. There is no way the devs will do this.... I mean how is a NB supposed to constantly avoid damage from 10 to 20 people and be unkillable. It would be unfair for them to die like a Magic DK. This is all skill my Brother. You gots to the L to the TWO to the play play. Lets not forget the NB has to kill the players while infinity dodge rolling and never taking damage. Add on VD and bam. The definition of skill. Anything else is bad balance. Small team play my man.

Can you imagine a group of NB colloborating on pvp techniques.

NB #1: "Yea man, I totally dodge rolled all over the place. Hit my stealth button. Spammed Y button and killed this dude with my skill based button spamming. It was totally unfair because he was not close enough for VD to wipe the entire group. Yea man, bummer dude. It was only 10 players"

NB #2: "Dude. I did the same thing but totally spammed the B button. I know man. Totally radical approach. I was worried when my health dropped below 90%. I mean it was only 15 players. I sent in a totally rad suggestion to look at dodge rolling because I took some damage."

Sad but true.....

No not true you need a high regen and CP in the CC Dodge rolling star to make a roll build but to have the power to kill you need damage as you can't WB. So you can't say just WB you need a stamina recovery and damage combo which means you need a stamina build VD is pure magic that makes no sense.

Nightblades only have a 15% recovery bonus min max races come close as does WW and Vamp on top of the fact that every class a type a recovery buff. Nightblades have no cheap roll power that a Mage running VD can use. The set is bugged and you can't kill Nightblades with the two thousand counters to cloak that's your fault.

KatzMainTank

Docmandu wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

So many rolling monkeys just dodging all over the bloody place, its annoying and broken.

WTT: Will trade dodge for healing ward

WTT: Dodge roll cost for ward diminishing return

AfkNinja

Dodge roll all you want, all it takes it 1 Magplar to wreck your world.

Lokey0024

Is there some kind of roll dodge glitch that doesnt use stam? And im not sure what the hell this reduced offence because you have points in the green tree.

TheDarkShadow

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Is there some kind of roll dodge glitch that doesnt use stam? And im not sure what the hell this reduced offence because you have points in the green tree.

They fixed it. Also when the glitch was still live, you couldn't really dodge anything I believe. If you dodge the glitch way it only gave you the advantage of speed to roll around stones to get out of los, it didn't give you dodge effect.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

Stamina players have to dip into there damage dealing resource to evade and run. Magika doesnt. As a stamina user ive never evaded evaded more than 4 players from rolling, they will eventually get you if they aren't awful. Stamina has been nerfed to much don't ask for nerf on stamina players until you have walked in our shoes.

Alcast

Use Non-dodgeable Attacks, drain his resources? Clearly a l2p issue.