why no underwater gameplay ?

Tdroid

Given how ZOS has handled what is roughly 2 dimentional battlefield, would you trust them to do a full 3 dimentional battlefield?

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

For the answer to the question ("why no underwater gameplay?"), watch Armchair Developer (starts at 1:11:00):

https://youtu.be/uxigt8ipK1g?t=1h11m

TL/DW: "it's too hard!"

That's pretty much what they say.

Knootewoot

They could make it easier by disabling the skills when underwater (just like now while swimming) and just use light/heavy attacks and block perhaps. The swimming part should not be that hard.

Oh well, seeing the direction the game is going I do believe it is to hard for them.

petraeus1

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

For the answer to the question ("why no underwater gameplay?"), watch Armchair Developer (starts at 1:11:00):

https://youtu.be/uxigt8ipK1g?t=1h11m

TL/DW: "it's too hard!"

That's pretty much what they say.

That's not a good reflection at all of what they say. They enumerate the complications of the addition of underwater content, and muse whether it's worth it.

I personally am skeptical about underwater content. Never played a game that did anything interesting with it. TES games you could swim underwater, there occasionally was a chest, hurray. Witcher 3 idem. Only game with fleshed out underwater combat I played was Guild Wars 2, and I personally think it's an annoying mess. 3D space is a hell for AI and player both, navigating and targeting combat abilities makes for super awkward and frustrating gameplay. There's a reason ANet removed all underwater parts from the PvP components of their game, aren't adding underwater content in new maps nor adding underwater anything. Despite regular clamor of people asking for a revamp.

ZOS either has the arduous task to completely rewrite part of the engine, design all new animations, rework part of the combat system and design content that actually make use of all this; they could scrap underwater combat and just give underwater exploration, which imo (from experience with TES games and games like TW3) hardly add gameplay value; or they don't do either, and continue to expand their game on land which arguably allows them to create more content and for which they have all assets in place. From a business perspective seems like a pretty clear choice, and I'd support them for it.

And, people can talk above water, they build castles above water, they write books above water: all major stories always take place above water, because that's where humanoids live. Above water is generally just a far more interesting place.

khele23eb17_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

For the answer to the question ("why no underwater gameplay?"), watch Armchair Developer (starts at 1:11:00):

https://youtu.be/uxigt8ipK1g?t=1h11m

TL/DW: "it's too hard!"

That's pretty much what they say.

Id say 'too much work to be worth it' :P

Nerouyn

danno8 wrote: »

GW2 has some of the best underwater combat of any mmo.

And most people can't wait to get out of the water and back on land where the "real" action is.

You are not going to keep existing customers or draw in new ones with underwater action. It would be a terrible cost/payoff ratio.

I'm not against it, but there is a reason it's not there.

I've long thought GW2's experience might be part of the reason ESO doesn't have it.

Gidorick

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

For the answer to the question ("why no underwater gameplay?"), watch Armchair Developer (starts at 1:11:00):

https://youtu.be/uxigt8ipK1g?t=1h11m

TL/DW: "it's too hard!"

That's pretty much what they say.

Id say 'too much work to be worth it' :P

Fair enough. But if they thought it were easy, it would be less work, making it more "worth it".

I think it's splitting hairs at that point.

Minalan

Because underwater content would make Aragonian racial ability useful.

Zenimax just can't have that...

WalkingLegacy

It's possible to do. They meld or build their own water engine into the base game.

WoW did it. All it took was professionals and money.

The thing is, they have to do it where it makes sense to spend that kind of money...

mysterious

petraeus1 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

For the answer to the question ("why no underwater gameplay?"), watch Armchair Developer (starts at 1:11:00):

https://youtu.be/uxigt8ipK1g?t=1h11m

TL/DW: "it's too hard!"

That's pretty much what they say.

That's not a good reflection at all of what they say. They enumerate the complications of the addition of underwater content, and muse whether it's worth it.

I personally am skeptical about underwater content. Never played a game that did anything interesting with it. TES games you could swim underwater, there occasionally was a chest, hurray. Witcher 3 idem. Only game with fleshed out underwater combat I played was Guild Wars 2, and I personally think it's an annoying mess. 3D space is a hell for AI and player both, navigating and targeting combat abilities makes for super awkward and frustrating gameplay. There's a reason ANet removed all underwater parts from the PvP components of their game, aren't adding underwater content in new maps nor adding underwater anything. Despite regular clamor of people asking for a revamp.

ZOS either has the arduous task to completely rewrite part of the engine, design all new animations, rework part of the combat system and design content that actually make use of all this; they could scrap underwater combat and just give underwater exploration, which imo (from experience with TES games and games like TW3) hardly add gameplay value; or they don't do either, and continue to expand their game on land which arguably allows them to create more content and for which they have all assets in place. From a business perspective seems like a pretty clear choice, and I'd support them for it.

And, people can talk above water, they build castles above water, they write books above water: all major stories always take place above water, because that's where humanoids live. Above water is generally just a far more interesting place.

i agree with you

Wolfshead

mysterious wrote: »

From morrowind to skyrim . there has been underwater gameplay in which we have monsters and sunken ship to explore. the good reason for being argonian. Elder scrolls online is a big game. And its an MMO. i am not comparing it with other TES. But dont you guys think a big feature is lacking that we cannot go underwater ?

is there any possibility they will implement in future ? or the build of this game is not compatible for underwater gameplay.

Please no i beg no i have play in whole zone like that in WoW and honest it was worse experience in my whole MMO/MMORPG history the combat is really hard to do in water zone for mobs is above, blow and are all around so you can really be super gang up in fight and we should even talk of try to loot thing for if you not right infront of item you cant loot for if you are unlucky the loot wont fall down to bottom and mount cant be use so basically we need to walk or swim in zone if we dont get quest to get sea mount.

I really hope we need to get underwater zone even if look good on paper it hardly work as people think and even blizzard have admit that there underwater zone was big misstake or should i say could have been made better and also it is less visit zone in whole WoW have blizzard said.

Abeille

Katahdin wrote: »

In GW2, they have awesome UW exploration and combat. In my estimation 75%+ of the player base hates it.

danno8 wrote: »

GW2 has some of the best underwater combat of any mmo.

And most people can't wait to get out of the water and back on land where the "real" action is.

People do hate it in GW2, even though it is superbly done. Some people just notice they hadn't changed their underwater weapons for the last 20 lvls when they roll the Underwater Fractal for the first time (fractals are a bunch of mini-dungeons). Though I don't play GW2 since last November and I don't know if something changed.

It would be lots of work and money for something that lots of people would most likely avoid, and complain when they can't avoid it.

Thevampirenight

Well they would have to do it like oblvion maybe not as many mobs, but basically in oblivion you could swim and hit foes with weapons, also magic, they could make it where it could work. Maybe not allowing certain abilties to work underwater like ults or abilties that don't make sense underwater.

They could add a pack of weresharks we could fight, underwater sloads, a few slaughter fish, sharks.
Maybe even a giant squid boss. Lots of corals and other fish to see and beauty,
Underwater ship wrecks that hold treasures and who knows what else.
A underwater argonion village, filled with underwater huts and other things argonions need to live under the waves." I really want to see this done in the the blackmarsh areas.
Maybe even a quest line that gives you a water breathing amulet and then basically asked to help out a underwater argonion village mayor of some sort.This amulet would allow you to talk underwater through magical means.
This would be epic as well.
Thing is if they make it simple but not to annoying they could really make some good under water content.
I like the ocean and I like underwater stuff was so very disapointed with skyrim when they did not add much for underwater stuff. I am disappointed there is no underwater stuff in eso.

Ra'Shtar

No excuse is valid, if MMOs over 10 years old have under water cities, combat and exploration its hard to belive it can't be achieved in an MMO that released 2 years ago.

actosh

Volkodav wrote: »

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO wrote: »

I recall the devs saying something about it being too much work.

If it's too much work,how come they can make new motifs and such? They could do it,if they wanted do.

All motifs, even the ones to come are alkready in the game since they r used by npcs or enemys like yokudan,akaviri and also the next 3that are to come like the crap they wear in tg zone.

Gidorick

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

No excuse is valid, if MMOs over 10 years old have under water cities, combat and exploration its hard to belive it can't be achieved in an MMO that released 2 years ago.

I completely agree @Ra'Shtar , and them having absolutely no plans to add this feature is inexcusable.

Bookwyrm

Personally in support of no underwater gameplay ever for ESO, but I have an irrational fear of underwater crap in video games. I blame the very dramatic, suspenseful drowning death of Sonic the Hedgehog that plagued my childhood gaming. I literally start hyperventilating when I have to go underwater in video games (only in video games, though). Also slaughterfish. Also it's cliche...when they want to "bring something new and refreshing!" to an MMO they all go "WATER LEVELS YES, THAT'S SO INNOVATIVE!"

I was going to post the Cyanide and Happiness comic strip relating to water levels in gaming, but it would probably get removed due to language, so I'll just point out that lots of people hate water levels. :P

petraeus1

Gidorick wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

No excuse is valid, if MMOs over 10 years old have under water cities, combat and exploration its hard to belive it can't be achieved in an MMO that released 2 years ago.

I completely agree @Ra'Shtar , and them having absolutely no plans to add this feature is inexcusable.

The entitlement. For all intents and purposes, the game's ZOS' property, and despite claims this feature might be for the best of the game, saying one's own suggestions not being catered to is inexcusable (even if supported by other players, even if this thread was created by another), comes across rather arrogant and is something I can't understand

Callous2208

Gidorick wrote: »

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

No excuse is valid, if MMOs over 10 years old have under water cities, combat and exploration its hard to belive it can't be achieved in an MMO that released 2 years ago.

I completely agree @Ra'Shtar , and them having absolutely no plans to add this feature is inexcusable.

Why is it inexcusable if nobody really cares to have it? Not too many people care for it in games where it's implemented pretty well, why do they need to bother spending the time and resources to add it here?

Hallothiel

Could ask the guys who made The Witcher for help as they did well in The Wild Hunt...

Used crossbows underwater which had enough 'oomph'. But then can also sail a boat in that game. Can spend ages just pootling around some gorgeous coastlines watching the sun rise/set.

Would love to be able to sail around Tamriel.

Lynx7386

Because then argonian racials might be useful.

dodgehopper_ESO

Niaver wrote: »

I was really dissapointed back in the beta when i realised there's no underwater world in the game.
But hey... we even't cant walk on the roofs in old locations, that's how the world is built in the game.

This made a lot of us sad. It was always fun diving into the water in those past games, and needing to quaff a waterbreathing potion or put your ring of water breathing or scroll of waterbreathing. It would be nice as well if slaughterfish weren't the instant death that they are currently. The slaughterfish of this era are like the Cliff Racers of the Morrowind Era :P (Super Annoying).

Anyway, its quite possible they might find a way to make water exploration possible in the future. I wouldn't hold your breath, but its a groovy new feature they could add later when they've got the time and inclination, and when it actually suits some DLC they're adding to the game (Pirate DLC seems appropriate).

C0wrex

I'd love to have an underwater exploration. Hell, just let me explore underwater!

In my opinion, underwater combat is just an addition ) The main meat of the feature is the exploration!