A Breton By Any Other Name (Breton Naming Questions)

BlackWormDisciple

Hey guys.

So, I'll go ahead and say this - Bretons, if I had to say, are probably my 'favorite' race in all of Tamriel. From the origins of their creation, their magical affinity and gift of mercantilism, to their strengths being that of Man and Mer without the other's weakness it would seem. However...

Naming a Breton in any of the games seems to be a problem for me. I understand that, since Morrowind, it seems French is the agreed upon approach to naming a Breton that was born and raised in High Rock (or at least a non-Reachmen), yet I have a couple of questions about naming Bretons - both in ESO as well as Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim. I ask these questions for the sake of understanding how a lore-friendly Breton name should be made/is made.

Question one, I'll just go ahead and say this, is a very important one to me - are Breton names (as shown by NPCs throughout this game, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim) just real-world names that are used or an alternate spelling, or can there also be names that are completely made-up yet mimic (or at least attempt to mimic) the style and sound of authentic French names? If the answer is yes to the created names, if anyone can offer an example or proof from an NPC in this game or any of the three previously mentioned games, I'd appreciate it.

Question two, what exactly is the consensus on names that are French or French-esque? Anything that's English, Germanic, etc. I noticed some names used by previous Breton NPCs seem to be English and German in terms of origin, as well as those that are of French origin.

Thank you for your time, everyone. I'll be looking forward to whatever advice you can offer.

Krist

uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Breton_Names

tamriel-rebuilt.org/?q=namegenerator

The race is heavily based and influenced by French and Franco-Canadian people and culture, with some Celtic influence. So look to that region for names, or use the name generator above if you are feeling lazy or do not have a particular idea of what the name would be. I have used it for different races for rp characters.

The other link gives you a list of the names found within Elder Scrolls and their different games, to give you an idea of what they look like in large numbers. I know Elder Scrolls loosely uses known culture for names, but it somewhat changes from game to game, and depends on who is writing the lore I guess. I hope this helps.

BlackWormDisciple

Krist wrote: »

uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Breton_Names

tamriel-rebuilt.org/?q=namegenerator

The race is heavily based and influenced by French and Franco-Canadian people and culture, with some Celtic influence. So look to that region for names, or use the name generator above if you are feeling lazy or do not have a particular idea of what the name would be. I have used it for different races for rp characters.

The other link gives you a list of the names found within Elder Scrolls and their different games, to give you an idea of what they look like in large numbers. I know Elder Scrolls loosely uses known culture for names, but it somewhat changes from game to game, and depends on who is writing the lore I guess. I hope this helps.

*nods* I appreciate it, friend. I had the link to the lore - names section of uesp, which is always useful before your post, but I appreciate the link to that, and the generator. Although, in all honesty I don't like being lazy with names so I try to avoid using them.

A valid point though, regarding how the lore depends on the writers - sort of like Superman's strength varies on the person writing his story.

I've been contemplating whether to go with a Breton or an Imperial - both races with their pros and cons in my eyes for ESO.
Imperials have caught my eye as of late - and I've been growing even more interested in their lore and culture - especially the Nibenese who remind me of the Bretons. Also, I imagine, would be easier to name one since a number of their names attempt to mimic the Latin/Roman name style and provides a nice basis for how to create names for them. Their con for me, however, is that in ESO they lack fairer skin tones - even though NPCs in the game as well as previous games have shown they can be as pale/fair as a Breton. It's weird, but I have an appreciation for pale/fair magic-using characters - and I feel like the Imperials should be able to go as light as a Breton can to as dark as they can be now, to better show the diversity of the Cyrod people. If I go with an Imperial, as long as I could find the right skin tone that makes them look at least somewhat fair (though I do wish I could make one at least as light as Abnur and Clivia Tharn), it might work out well. (( If anyone, by the way, who plays an Imperial character can tell me how light they can make an Imperial look naturally - without vampirism - I'd appreciate it. ))

Bretons, on the other hand, are a race I've been fascinated with ever since I first got into the Elder Scrolls series, as I mention in the original post. However, also like I mentioned before, their names.... well.... they're a pain to me, since I try to get something perfect each time I've attempted to make one only to find out either the name is far too similar to an existing name, or it just doesn't feel 'right'.

*cough* Sorry... Guess I sort of got caught up rambling again.

Krist

I should clarify I use the name generator when I am writing a character story for supporting characters. It really does come in handy for that, because who wants to think of a perfect name for someone that may die or never really be seen/heard from again! LOL

Imperials can range from dark to light. Remember they have different blood in them, including Nords for some. I would not discount it at all, because you never know what gene will be dominate. I do not remember the skin color range but it has to be pretty broad, as I have an elf that looks like a Breton, purposefully, and I have a Redguard that looks like a white man, purposefully.

I like Breton mages. I think their history is wonderful and there is so much lore to work with on why they do what they do.

Back to names, the names of my characters do not necessarily match the culture, which of course is possible as we have Americans with French names, Hispanic people with English names, etc etc etc...even in our own reality. In my case I have played most of my characters for decades on one rp game or another, so changing their names is not an option for me. They are very important to me as they are. However, in your case, you want something that is close to the culture, so my advice is simply find one that you like and do not be bothered if others are named similar. That happens in real life all the time.

menedhyn

I share your fascination for Bretons and their varied culture, though I find they can be quite difficult to (role)play if, like me, you don't want to be a sword-wielding knight of noble birth or an all-powerful mage destined for fame and... yawn. But enough of that. I also have an interest in creating a strong name that is familiar enough to be recognised as Breton, but which is perhaps different from the norm and not already in use.

As @Krist says, there is a heavy French influence with the in-game names from Morrowind onwards, and a fair bit of Gaelic (Irish / Scottish) usage creeps in with Skyrim, particularly so with the Witchmen. I'm sure there are a few Scandinavian or Germanic words in there too, but I can't remember specifically what, or where (this is best answered by someone more familiar with those languages than I am). I would argue that a number of the more English sounding names have Germanic or French origins anyway. This kind of answer your second question, although not very well - sorry!

As for your first question - I haven't yet found a name that appears to be completely made up. There may be a few that are, and others may be able to help and identify them, but I suspect most are probably either real names or real words. For what it's worth, I tend to avoid choosing a name and then replace maybe one or two letters to make it sound different. Often it doesn't work for me, but that is more down to my own poor choices!

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

BlackWormDisciple

Krist wrote: »

I should clarify I use the name generator when I am writing a character story for supporting characters. It really does come in handy for that, because who wants to think of a perfect name for someone that may die or never really be seen/heard from again! LOL

Imperials can range from dark to light. Remember they have different blood in them, including Nords for some. I would not discount it at all, because you never know what gene will be dominate. I do not remember the skin color range but it has to be pretty broad, as I have an elf that looks like a Breton, purposefully, and I have a Redguard that looks like a white man, purposefully.

I like Breton mages. I think their history is wonderful and there is so much lore to work with on why they do what they do.

Back to names, the names of my characters do not necessarily match the culture, which of course is possible as we have Americans with French names, Hispanic people with English names, etc etc etc...even in our own reality. In my case I have played most of my characters for decades on one rp game or another, so changing their names is not an option for me. They are very important to me as they are. However, in your case, you want something that is close to the culture, so my advice is simply find one that you like and do not be bothered if others are named similar. That happens in real life all the time.

Well said, Krist. *smiles* And fair enough point on using the generator for characters in backstories. lol

And yes, I'm aware of the range that Imperials have for skin tone, as well as - at least what we know - of their ancestry as a whole, both Nibenese and Colovians. Various Nedic tribes, Nordic blood, rumors of Tsaeci and Ayleid blood - though the key is rumors, or at least, it's rare for some Nibenese families - yet mainly ancestry tied to the Nords and the different tribes of Man the Ayleids had breed together. I also know that they can range from pale to swarthy in the lore, yet I just can't find a way to get an Imperial looking at least fair enough to be similar to the Breton skin tones (without making a Breton, obviously lol - not into using one race and roleplaying them as another). And yet I've seen some people with Imperials that look fair - which is a little surprising to me.

BlackWormDisciple

paganach wrote: »

I share your fascination for Bretons and their varied culture, though I find they can be quite difficult to (role)play if, like me, you don't want to be a sword-wielding knight of noble birth or an all-powerful mage destined for fame and... yawn. But enough of that. I also have an interest in creating a strong name that is familiar enough to be recognised as Breton, but which is perhaps different from the norm and not already in use.

As @Krist says, there is a heavy French influence with the in-game names from Morrowind onwards, and a fair bit of Gaelic (Irish / Scottish) usage creeps in with Skyrim, particularly so with the Witchmen. I'm sure there are a few Scandinavian or Germanic words in there too, but I can't remember specifically what, or where (this is best answered by someone more familiar with those languages than I am). I would argue that a number of the more English sounding names have Germanic or French origins anyway. This kind of answer your second question, although not very well - sorry!

As for your first question - I haven't yet found a name that appears to be completely made up. There may be a few that are, and others may be able to help and identify them, but I suspect most are probably either real names or real words. For what it's worth, I tend to avoid choosing a name and then replace maybe one or two letters to make it sound different. Often it doesn't work for me, but that is more down to my own poor choices!

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

I'll try and keep you all updated - and thank you for your reply, paganach!

I've seen what you mean about there being some Breton NPCs in the games that have Germanic or possibly Scandinavian names - hell, the first Breton you meet in Morrowind has a very Imperial name (the NPC who asks for your class and birthsign).

And yeah, I've been suspecting the same about a large chunk of Breton NPC names. Some seem like they were made up to mimic the French style and sound, yet others - after additional research - are French words used as names. Like one Oblivion NPC - Isabeau Bienne, her last name is French for "town".

BlackWormDisciple

Is there anyone else who'd like to add to this?

BlackWormDisciple

I figured I should try and get some more advice and/or insight on naming Bretons.

Anyone who's made lore-friendly Breton names throughout the games or looked into the Breton NPC names by chance care to give their advice?

Looking at some NPC names myself from Oblivion and Morrowind at least, some seem to be either made up or appear INCREDIBLY rare in real-world - which makes it even more annoying to find the origin or proper usage of those names. ... That, and some sources say certain names are of an origin which makes no sense at all.

QuebraRegra

paganach wrote: »

I share your fascination for Bretons and their varied culture, though I find they can be quite difficult to (role)play if, like me, you don't want to be a sword-wielding knight of noble birth or an all-powerful mage destined for fame and... yawn. But enough of that. I also have an interest in creating a strong name that is familiar enough to be recognised as Breton, but which is perhaps different from the norm and not already in use.

As @Krist says, there is a heavy French influence with the in-game names from Morrowind onwards, and a fair bit of Gaelic (Irish / Scottish) usage creeps in with Skyrim, particularly so with the Witchmen. I'm sure there are a few Scandinavian or Germanic words in there too, but I can't remember specifically what, or where (this is best answered by someone more familiar with those languages than I am). I would argue that a number of the more English sounding names have Germanic or French origins anyway. This kind of answer your second question, although not very well - sorry!

As for your first question - I haven't yet found a name that appears to be completely made up. There may be a few that are, and others may be able to help and identify them, but I suspect most are probably either real names or real words. For what it's worth, I tend to avoid choosing a name and then replace maybe one or two letters to make it sound different. Often it doesn't work for me, but that is more down to my own poor choices!

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

Hearkens back to the roots of the English language... Many in that generator do look Gaelic, the repetitions of consonants like "Y" looks almost like Cymric (Welsh).

dodgehopper_ESO

Krist wrote: »

uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Breton_Names

tamriel-rebuilt.org/?q=namegenerator

The race is heavily based and influenced by French and Franco-Canadian people and culture, with some Celtic influence. So look to that region for names, or use the name generator above if you are feeling lazy or do not have a particular idea of what the name would be. I have used it for different races for rp characters.

The other link gives you a list of the names found within Elder Scrolls and their different games, to give you an idea of what they look like in large numbers. I know Elder Scrolls loosely uses known culture for names, but it somewhat changes from game to game, and depends on who is writing the lore I guess. I hope this helps.

I like to think of them as having Gaulish (Ancient French/Celt) and Visigoth influences as well.

BlackWormDisciple

QuebraRegra wrote: »

paganach wrote: »

I share your fascination for Bretons and their varied culture, though I find they can be quite difficult to (role)play if, like me, you don't want to be a sword-wielding knight of noble birth or an all-powerful mage destined for fame and... yawn. But enough of that. I also have an interest in creating a strong name that is familiar enough to be recognised as Breton, but which is perhaps different from the norm and not already in use.

As @Krist says, there is a heavy French influence with the in-game names from Morrowind onwards, and a fair bit of Gaelic (Irish / Scottish) usage creeps in with Skyrim, particularly so with the Witchmen. I'm sure there are a few Scandinavian or Germanic words in there too, but I can't remember specifically what, or where (this is best answered by someone more familiar with those languages than I am). I would argue that a number of the more English sounding names have Germanic or French origins anyway. This kind of answer your second question, although not very well - sorry!

As for your first question - I haven't yet found a name that appears to be completely made up. There may be a few that are, and others may be able to help and identify them, but I suspect most are probably either real names or real words. For what it's worth, I tend to avoid choosing a name and then replace maybe one or two letters to make it sound different. Often it doesn't work for me, but that is more down to my own poor choices!

Good luck, and let us know how you get on.

Hearkens back to the roots of the English language... Many in that generator do look Gaelic, the repetitions of consonants like "Y" looks almost like Cymric (Welsh).

Mentioning the generator names, it seems like a number of them (those that have the Gaelic styles) would be more appropriate for those in the Reach. It's still a bit odd to look at the Bretons who have either French or French-esque names (or maybe just very rarely used real-world French names - still not certain about a number of those NPC names throughout the games since Morrowind) and then seeing those with Gaelic or Gaelic-like names, which are typically linked to those who would be considered Reachmen rather than 'civilized' Bretons from the likes of Wayrest or Daggerfall.

Druachan

Well being of Scottish/Irish/English/Celtic origin myself I looked deeply into naming my breton character and after many minutes used this name generator fantasynamegenerators.com. I have used this to create most of my names for the likes of skyrim and also eso. I usually find I get a few names and merge the first and last from the ones that appeal.

While looking around i did also find for female characters Celtic Female Names Glossary
Part of that page is for Breton celts, might be handy.

Yes theres a Male names page as well Celtic Male Names Glossary

Again theres a section for Breton Celts. Its nice that it gives a "meaning" to the name, may help with deciding what name you want for the character.

BlackWormDisciple

Druachan wrote: »

Well being of Scottish/Irish/English/Celtic origin myself I looked deeply into naming my breton character and after many minutes used this name generator fantasynamegenerators.com. I have used this to create most of my names for the likes of skyrim and also eso. I usually find I get a few names and merge the first and last from the ones that appeal.

While looking around i did also find for female characters Celtic Female Names Glossary
Part of that page is for Breton celts, might be handy.

Yes theres a Male names page as well Celtic Male Names Glossary

Again theres a section for Breton Celts. Its nice that it gives a "meaning" to the name, may help with deciding what name you want for the character.

Thank you for sharing, Druachan.*smiles* Although, I have to say, I'm not personally fond of using name generators for characters I plan to play as.

Also, it seems like we have relatively similar origins - Scottish/Irish/English/German ancestry myself. Not sure if there's anything else aside from those four though.

BlackWormDisciple

Anyone else care to share their advice/insights/etc? Any and all advice on naming a Daggerfall born-and-raised* Breton is appreciated.

*Or simply a non-Reachman/'civilized' Breton, considering Bretons(not Reachmen) all have the same naming conventions. No idea why people on other sites have the idea of regional naming conventions for Bretons throughout the entirety of High Rock, since the lore page for Bretons states that "their clothes, accents, customs and names are fairly uniform," even though they have diverse appearances due to some noble families displaying more Elven features, while others can have more Nordic or Cyro-Nordiic/Imperial features depending on where they live or their family tree. Which tells me regional naming conventions wouldn't make sense unless they include the distinct differences between a regular Breton and one of the Witchmen of the Reach/Reachman.

BlackWormDisciple

Anyone?

Feynn

First of all, I entirely agree on your preference for Bretons and I feel just like you in that regard. Bretons are awesome! No idea why aren't there more people realizing that.

Secondly, I would strongly caution you against equating any aspects of Bretons (including names) with French. Bretons are not French, even though of course some names are clearly French and the word "Breton" itself IRL refers of course to the French region of Brittany (Bretagne).

Breton names also have English influences, as well of course as Celtic (not just for the Reachmen), and some of them - to answer your first question - do not seem to have RL correspondence, but are rather completely made up. A few examples:

• Baragon, a Breton member of the Blades (Oblivion), with a made-up name which doesn't sound French.
• Michebert Montieu, resident of Daggerfall (ESO), with a French-sounding made-up name.
• Roulena Pathierry, resident of Daggerfall (ESO), the surname sounds French, but the first name seems entirely made up.
• Prolyssa, a Breton woman mentioned in the book "The Black Arrow".
• Rowley Eardwulf (Oblivion, Vile Lair)
• Theranis (Oblivion)
• Thorley Aethelred (Oblivion)

If you look them up online you will find plenty more. I omitted names which appear in Skyrim (like Belethor or Adeber) because even though they are not explicitly Reachmen it's still more likely that they may have some Reachman ancestry. If you want your name to be original yet lore-friendly I think Bretons offer you a lot of flexibility.

BlackWormDisciple

Feynn wrote: »

First of all, I entirely agree on your preference for Bretons and I feel just like you in that regard. Bretons are awesome! No idea why aren't there more people realizing that.

Secondly, I would strongly caution you against equating any aspects of Bretons (including names) with French. Bretons are not French, even though of course some names are clearly French and the word "Breton" itself IRL refers of course to the French region of Brittany (Bretagne).

Breton names also have English influences, as well of course as Celtic (not just for the Reachmen), and some of them - to answer your first question - do not seem to have RL correspondence, but are rather completely made up. A few examples:

• Baragon, a Breton member of the Blades (Oblivion), with a made-up name which doesn't sound French.
• Michebert Montieu, resident of Daggerfall (ESO), with a French-sounding made-up name.
• Roulena Pathierry, resident of Daggerfall (ESO), the surname sounds French, but the first name seems entirely made up.
• Prolyssa, a Breton woman mentioned in the book "The Black Arrow".
• Rowley Eardwulf (Oblivion, Vile Lair)
• Theranis (Oblivion)
• Thorley Aethelred (Oblivion)

If you look them up online you will find plenty more. I omitted names which appear in Skyrim (like Belethor or Adeber) because even though they are not explicitly Reachmen it's still more likely that they may have some Reachman ancestry. If you want your name to be original yet lore-friendly I think Bretons offer you a lot of flexibility.

Huh... Fascinating finds, Feynn! And it's always good to see a fellow fan of the Bretons.

And I know, the Bretons have more than just French influence in terms of names and culture - but most people typically list Medieval French/general Medieval Europe as the inspiration/real-world influence for the Bretons.

As for the Skyrim names being omitted in your list, I can understand that - many of them seem to be Reachmen or have ancestry related to them, especially those who have only one name and lack a surname or family name. That seems to be a good way of showing who is an actual Reachman if going by names alone. Then some names, it's hard to tell if they're made up or just rare names - and those that seem like they're rare, the one or two sites mentioning them either have no origin for the name or it's an origin that makes little to no sense (like Phinis Gestor - whose first name seems like a variation of "Phineas" yet his last name, from what I've read, is Spanish for 'manager' or 'management'. I could be wrong though, but it just seems odd to me.)

likelolwhat

If you were not aware, a better listing on UESP for Breton names from ESO would be these:

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Category:Online-Breton-Female
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Category:Online-Breton-Male

As editors have to manually add names to the Lore:Names page, which is rather less often considered than listing it on a page as a parameter.

As for my own insight, I have a similar habit as a poster above: recreating characters I've had in my head for a long time. But since naming conventions (among other things, like acceptable hair colors) change from game to game, I have to adjust to be flexible about that. Luckily it is fairly easy to convert the old names to Breton conventions. Unlike if I were to, say, make them Nords.

As I envisioned these characters in the world of TES, they come from Daggerfall nobility. I did some poking around in various baby name sites, along with UESP's wealth of established knowledge. I decided to go French (because no Daggerfall noble would ever name their child anything remotely Reachmannish) and invoke some name meanings (because I LOVE hidden meanings in names, particularly ironic ones~)

So I have Caïn and Côme Guillory, twin brothers. I was a little trepidatious using these particular first names (I fell in love with Guillory from the instant I saw it, and the meaning is even better: "will-powerful"). Caïn for potential Biblical implications that I did not want to invoke, Côme because I thought it too soft and feminine sounding. But the longer I thought about it, the more I started to attach the names to them. Though Caïn as a name may never outrun its association, the base meaning remains one I can get behind. And given Côme is seen as weak, that ended up fitting him too. The "order, beauty" meaning fits my irony criteria.

For 'plot reasons' they also have Eastern High Rock (West Reach) codenames, which are Cai and Colm respectively. Cai in the Welsh means "lord", and Colm is Old Irish, meaning "dove".

They also have a cousin named Maeve, which is Anglicized Irish Gaelic. She's not full Breton as her father was Altmer. I like to think that Maeve could also pass as an Altmeri name, but I don't know enough about their naming conventions to be sure.

I guess what this post is trying to say is do research. If you want the name to make you or any etymology enthusiasts in the audience grin when they see it, go for that. If you have people whose circumstances dictate "matching" or "themed" names (as I did), keep that in mind too. But ultimately, there isn't a hard and fast guide on how to name fictional characters. As they are yours, a part of you, it is up to you alone to figure out what to call these little bits of your soul.

negbert

I have used the uesp to name all of my Bretons.
Alix Traven
Sebastian Renoit
Etienne Luseph
Marc Renault

Arciris

As a French person myself, I would like to add a few cultural references to this topic_
1. Although a part of France today, Brittany (Bretagne in French, inhabitants Bretons and Bretonnes) is still a distinct region with its own language or dialect, that is quite different from the main French (derives from celtic, gaelic...): I cannot understand Breton for example, although my native language is French. In consequence of that, you find today in that region names that are french based and names that are Breton based. Example: Benoît Dupont, French name; Loïc Cornec, Breton name, or simply a mix of the two.
2. Bretons were more Nordic people that settled in Great-Britanny (one of the names for England) and in the Nord West part of France. Thus it only makes sense that in ESO, some Breton names will appear to have an English origin when in fact it is just that some English names have a Breton origin IRL.
I dont have time for this now but I'll be back if needed

mystic_gc525

@krist and dodgehopper_ESO, great links, very helpful, thank you very much. I just used those to name my new Breton Mage : Theodastyr Arc'hantael.

Theodastry came from the uesp sites list of male Breton names from dagger fall as a combination of the 13 different prefixes and suffixes. It seems that between the different games there is quite some variation on Breton names especially in regards to the last names. in the Daggerfall lists, it seems there is such limited options for last names, but when you look at the last names listed for other games and ESO especially they change drastically in underlying structure and style. That made me feel like I could pick a last name that gave the feeling I wanted for my character from any of the names listed on the Celtic male names glossary above as the only thing they all had in common is at least a vague or sometimes more poingnant similarity to many north western European type names.

So, thats my process. I play on PS4 NA, psn mystic_gc525, character: Theodastyr Arc'hantael

Stickbow

Very late to this conversation, and may not contribute much, but I do remember in some official lore statement over the years that the Bretons are based on the actual "Britons" of history. I seem to remember a quote stating they were "the folk of the land in Britain" or something like that; just can't find the quote again. Normal people with a little faerie in their blood, and a lot more druidic influence than the later immigrants.

That would explain the post - Charlemagne, even post "Imperial" (Roman) influence on names. It would also explain the use of older British cultural names that have Welsh (possibly the oldest semi-intact language on the British Isles) and even Gaelic/Celtic influences.

I've chosen to use cultural variants of one of my given names for all my characters in ESO, with the exception of my Dunmer "bank"that became a sword wielding sorceress. Thus I have Ealdred le Dubh (Welsh given name/french surname) the Breton, I had Aeldred Jotunborn the nord, El-dran the Redguard, and Eldalf Graybinder the Altmer. My first ESO character, a Bosmer is the stretch - Eldred of Falinesti...the given name doesn't really fit Bosmer name structure.

Hope this has been somewhat useful, as it's my sole contribution to the Roleplaying section of the forums

JWKe

You're overthinking it. I have a friend as French as French can be and his name is Kevin probably the most unfrench sounding name ever.