guard system is so incredibly frustrating

kratier

as a new player, im finding the most frustrating absolutely soul destroying thing in this game is the guards. they are unkillable and endlessly spam roots, you cant do anything, then you lose all your thieving progress because you are absolutely powerless against it
like, i cant explain to you just how awful i think the guard system is, from the little "pay the guard" to his awful dialog and how immersion breaking it is, to the part where the guards are literally immortal invulnerable gods
like i love the thieving part, but the guard system is atrociously bad, i hope you guys improve it because omg its so frustrating and awful

kratier

oh and i think the system would be VASTLY improved if you just had them not spam roots infinitely and made an actual effort to make it seem like a someone is chasing you, and trying to arrest you, rather than it being a literal god striking you down because you took some items that didnt belong to you

Obliterate

I think you're supposed to run not try to kill the guards

Lightninvash

kratier wrote: »

as a new player, im finding the most frustrating absolutely soul destroying thing in this game is the guards. they are unkillable and endlessly spam roots, you cant do anything, then you lose all your thieving progress because you are absolutely powerless against it
like, i cant explain to you just how awful i think the guard system is, from the little "pay the guard" to his awful dialog and how immersion breaking it is, to the part where the guards are literally immortal invulnerable gods
like i love the thieving part, but the guard system is atrociously bad, i hope you guys improve it because omg its so frustrating and awful

with it being online with a lot of people if guards were kill able everyone would just kill all the guards in the cities and steal unrestrictedly and what would the fun of that be?

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

Run from guard, use invisibility potion, keep loot.

Fallen_Ray

They can at least make them like in previous elder scrolls games kill-able yes, spawns lots of guards but possible to escape or hide from them if you knew how to evade them, that is the meaning of true balancing, the right way.

Lightninvash

Fallen_Ray wrote: »

They can at least make them like in previous elder scrolls games kill-able yes, spawns lots of guards but possible to escape or hide from them if you knew how to evade them, that is the meaning of true balancing, the right way.

yeah but in previous elder scrolls you could get on a roof top and kill them from a distance some of them didn't have bows

UrQuan

There's stuff you can do:

• Learn the guard routes to better avoid them
• Get better at judging timing and where to sneak to avoid getting bounties in the first place (this sounds like L2P but it's really just practice)
• Frequently return to the outlaws hideout to sell/fence stolen goods - especially when you have a bounty
• Always know what your escape route will be
• Stay out of buildings that have guards inside them if you have a bounty! You can get trapped in combat in there and be unable to escape
• Don't fight guards! Escape!
• When fleeing the guards run like hell, but don't sprint because you'll need your stamina to:
• Break free/dodge roll (depending on whether they turn you into stone or hit you with talons). This is what your stamina is for when escaping guards
• Slot self heals and use them while fleeing
• Try to escape by jumping to different elevations - guards will go the long way around to try to get to you instead of jumping, and you can get away while they do that (jumping into a body of water is good too)

If you do these things you'll have very few real problems with the guards.

kratier

you say run , but then the guard just spams root on you endlessly and you eventually run out of stamina from running and rolling out of the roots, then they just root you again and you are stuck there unable to do anything while you are being killed
i just think they shouldnt even have health bars if you are going to make them unkillable, and you shouldnt have them KILL YOU for stealing stuff. they should arrest you or something, like this is the most unimmersive thing in the entire game and totally is ruining my experience with the game. like this is the new big DLC expansion, but the guards are like the most lazy worthless thing about the DLC, like it probably took them 5 minutes to make them and like it seems they put absolutely no thought into them, to make them interesting or unique or smartly designed, its like the most basic terrible thing about the game so far for me

idk

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

Run from guard, use invisibility potion, keep loot.

You forgot about sneaking and look out for guards so you do not get caught a second time.

Gargath

kratier wrote: »

as a new player, im finding the most frustrating

Curious how a new player can be almost immediately frustrasted rather than feeling satisfaction from a new game and new rules. I can say, be more patient and play more and you should love the new rules. They are made not without a reason. Stealing things and playing outlaw must have a bit of uncertainty and danger - will I be catched or not.
I'm happy that guards are unable to kill. For the mass murderer achievement with my nightblade khajiit I was killing a number of peasants inside the city and I was sometimes chased by guards. It was all just fun, also when sometimes I died - I knew the risk and accepted the risk.
And finally with a fine on my head over 40k I just logged off and played another character for next week or more, awaiting for the fine being taken off my head. These rules are awesome .

badbeansnub18_ESO

I agree. The guards are terrible. Make the guards level appropriate and then...

...fully implement the justice system as it was intended with players v player combat for thievery.

sirrmattus

L2STEAL BROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Acharnor

I'm having a lot of success with my Night Blade running from the guards. I find strategic dodge rolling is super helpful and hitting the cloak ability (I think that's what it is - I am new to NB) while running. Get around a corner, up a plank, just keep moving. If you are near the water at all I dodge roll right off the boardwalk into it and swim for my life. I am also wearing the Nights Silence set which lets you sneak at normal speed while moving. Keep at it! I do wish we could team up on them though - really take over the town. LOL.

UrQuan

kratier wrote: »

you say run , but then the guard just spams root on you endlessly and you eventually run out of stamina from running and rolling out of the roots, then they just root you again and you are stuck there unable to do anything while you are being killed
i just think they shouldnt even have health bars if you are going to make them unkillable, and you shouldnt have them KILL YOU for stealing stuff. they should arrest you or something, like this is the most unimmersive thing in the entire game and totally is ruining my experience with the game. like this is the new big DLC expansion, but the guards are like the most lazy worthless thing about the DLC, like it probably took them 5 minutes to make them and like it seems they put absolutely no thought into them, to make them interesting or unique or smartly designed, its like the most basic terrible thing about the game so far for me

So you've got a problem with the guards, but you're not willing to learn all of the methods of avoiding them/getting away from them in order to make your problem go away. OK then, not really worth talking to you is it?

AOECAPS

Oh no this game is unfair I can't steal with no repercussions. Everyone gave you advice on how to steal it's amazing how many people I see dying in abah's landing by the guards because they don't know how to escape. They die fighting,don't know how to get away at all. I saw one guy try to travel to a different location only for the guard to pull him out of travel and kill him lol

Lightninvash

kratier wrote: »

you say run , but then the guard just spams root on you endlessly and you eventually run out of stamina from running and rolling out of the roots, then they just root you again and you are stuck there unable to do anything while you are being killed
i just think they shouldnt even have health bars if you are going to make them unkillable, and you shouldnt have them KILL YOU for stealing stuff. they should arrest you or something, like this is the most unimmersive thing in the entire game and totally is ruining my experience with the game. like this is the new big DLC expansion, but the guards are like the most lazy worthless thing about the DLC, like it probably took them 5 minutes to make them and like it seems they put absolutely no thought into them, to make them interesting or unique or smartly designed, its like the most basic terrible thing about the game so far for me

retreating maneuvers grants u a temporary immunity to roots.

You are welcome @kratier

Miszou

Truthfully, the only time I've ever been killed by guards is when I tried to ride really fast between two of them, and didn't see another two nearby.

So yeah, even my amazing tank skills couldn't save me from an epic beatdown by four guards.

I lost all my phat lootz too. I get your frustration, because I felt kinda dumb afterwards, but then again... I guess I shouldn't have been stealing all that stuff. My bounty at the time was less than 500 gold, and I had decided that it wasn't worth using one of my pardons, because I can easily outrun the guards...

kratier

if you mean retreating maneuvers such as dodge roll, to get out of root, it most certainly does not grant immunity, as i get rooted almost immediately after
the only thing that makes the delay between roots is probably the delay between skill uses

and no, its not fair, its not immersive, its not enjoyable, this is my feedback, ive played elder scrolls games since morrowind and this is by far the worst guard system i have ever seen
and its not about "wah i cant steal infinitely" I don't care about dying or losing my stuff, its the process in which this happens, where i as a player am completely powerless against the guards, who are immortal, invulnerable, unkillable, gods that smite down players in the most worthless unsatisfying unenjoyable way

you know what would be a better way? bounty hunters tracking you down, spawning an encounter where you fight off 3 or more enemies where you will naturally die from the fight, or just barely survive
or getting put in jail and having to escape, and a chance to retrieve the loot from an evidence chest
or pretty much anything else than what it is now, because it is the worst

maybe even something like if you get caught by guards they put you in shackles and you have to break free or pick the lock of the shackles before they take you to jail

like, what im saying now is that theyve put 0 thought into this system and like i right now am coming up with better ideas than what they are charging players 20 dollars to experience

Docmandu

kratier wrote: »

if you mean retreating maneuvers such as dodge roll,

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Rapid+Maneuver

Next post: QQ need to PvP for that!

sirrmattus

Docmandu wrote: »

kratier wrote: »

if you mean retreating maneuvers such as dodge roll,

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Rapid+Maneuver

Next post: QQ need to PvP for that!

you literally have to go in cyrodil and accept quest. then you can unlock skill

Beardimus

The skill is not to get detected surely? Burgle rather than be a ransacking marauder!!
If you are a bad thief and drive your bounty up, and then run into guards (who have easy to learn patterns) you have already failed on two counts of being a good burglar To then be able to murder the cops doesn't seem right to me. Dont get caught!!

Tips if you do attract Five-O - immoveable potions help, invisibility and look for the new passives / skills in the thieves guild DLC skill line to pay off guards / reduce detection areas etc

Lysette

There are so many edicts in thief troves - if something goes wrong, just use one of those and the problem is gone, no guards chasing you. Otherwise if you really need to run, its good to know the location, where are hiding spots, where can you break line of sight, where are other guards patrolling. To observe a location before you are actually doing something there is a normal activity for a successful thief - without to know the location and the habits of the security guards, it is dangerous.

VodkaVixen1979

This DLC was only around $7 USD if you got the crowns on sale, less than $11 if you didn't. So, not $20 to play first off. Next, being a new player, the most recent DLC is not the best place to L2P. You may be able to go there at level 3, but unless it is your alt and you have CP, you probably shouldn't. My stamina NB has cloak and vigor, so getting away from guards is no big deal. My advice would be to learn the ropes on the main content, then come to Hew's Bane once you have a strong grasp on gameplay and mechanics. JMHO.

Spacemonkey

kratier wrote: »

you say run , but then the guard just spams root on you endlessly and you eventually run out of stamina from running and rolling out of the roots, then they just root you again and you are stuck there unable to do anything while you are being killed
i just think they shouldnt even have health bars if you are going to make them unkillable, and you shouldnt have them KILL YOU for stealing stuff. they should arrest you or something, like this is the most unimmersive thing in the entire game and totally is ruining my experience with the game. like this is the new big DLC expansion, but the guards are like the most lazy worthless thing about the DLC, like it probably took them 5 minutes to make them and like it seems they put absolutely no thought into them, to make them interesting or unique or smartly designed, its like the most basic terrible thing about the game so far for me

Indomnitable is your friend. I flee from guards all the time. Succesfully. (HINT: Water helps)

Miszou

Spacemonkey wrote: »

kratier wrote: »

you say run , but then the guard just spams root on you endlessly and you eventually run out of stamina from running and rolling out of the roots, then they just root you again and you are stuck there unable to do anything while you are being killed
i just think they shouldnt even have health bars if you are going to make them unkillable, and you shouldnt have them KILL YOU for stealing stuff. they should arrest you or something, like this is the most unimmersive thing in the entire game and totally is ruining my experience with the game. like this is the new big DLC expansion, but the guards are like the most lazy worthless thing about the DLC, like it probably took them 5 minutes to make them and like it seems they put absolutely no thought into them, to make them interesting or unique or smartly designed, its like the most basic terrible thing about the game so far for me

Indomnitable is your friend. I flee from guards all the time. Succesfully. (HINT: Water helps)

Ha! I was just going to say that as an Argonian, I just dive into the nearest water and make good use of my awesome racial passive.

CossackHD

I think overpowered guards are fun. Sure, it can get annoying, but without sich consequences there's no thrill stealing stuff. Skyrim guard system is sure more realistic, but it's too basic, boring, plain and even more annoying sometimes.

SUGGESTION TIME
Add decoy scroll/potion just for TG members, the decoy scroll is sorta spell that renders the user invisible for short time and creates a running projection of the thief, making guards run for the projection for a short while, just so it's enough for the thief to get into undetected sneaking. This decoy scroll should be purschasable in hideouts and available as a crime spree reward.
Add a lengthy cooldown for the item and dis gon work good.

Meh, it's too much alike an invisibility potion, but inv pot is not effective against guards as I see it.

Oakmontowls_ESO

If a single guard is after you wait until he does a wind up attack then block that and use a heavy attack to knock him down. That should give you enough time to run away and exit combat. But above all this really is a l2p issue, if you get a bounty you are doing it wrong.

Nestor

I have leveled 4 characters to 20 in Legerdemain, the other 4 to some levels above 10. Guards have never been an issue unless I do something stupid.

The Guards don't need to be changed, stealing or murdering so you get caught needs be changed. Or, learn how to handle your bounty.

1. Clemency Passive from Thieves Guild stops all Guard attacks and then you can teleport away in the one minute of Immunity you have. Go to a Wayshrine that is close to an external Refuge entrance.
2. Footpad Passive from TG can teleport you to a Refuge
3. Most NPCs do not attack you even after crying out an alarm, so you can hang out in the house until your Bounty drops. There are TG Passives that make the Bounty go down much faster
4. Troves carry Pardons to remove any Bounty up to 500 Gold
5. Look around before you steal something, is an NPC walking towards you? Don't commit a crime
6. There are so many places in the game to steal from that either have no NPCs or have NPCs that can easily be avoided, no need to steal from populated places or guard heavy places.

Really, the Guards are a non factor if you just pay attention to your surroundings and use the existing tools in the game to mitigate or eliminate the issues.

dodgehopper_ESO

Also there are now some get out of jail free cards you can use to lower your bounty these days.

1. Learn how to line of sight, it'll help you with pvp and thieving.
2. Learn the routes. Think about ingress and egress. Be aware of your surroundings, knowledge is a powerful thing.
3. Make sure to put points in Legerdemain and Thieves Guild skills if you actually intend to be a thief. It makes things easier.
4. Invisibility, Immobile and Speed potions are your friend.
5. Forward Momentum from 2 hander can help with breaking out of snares, as well as purify, purge, and a retreating maneuver. These will help you out with dealing with snares as well.
6. Use Cloak if you have it, this skill is probably one of the most useful.
7. If you use cloak or an invisibility potion, break line of sight then pop it, and jump into a barrel if you are indoors, or at the very least make enough distance that you are safe.
8. Don't expect to be a superman at theft early on, you really need to sink points into Legerdemain fast. Thieves guild adds a lot of quality of life passives.

Really it is very easy and you're just new to the system. I barely have time to play lately and in the last couple weeks I've made over 100,000 gold from thieving and some nice purple motifs, recipes, materials and armors/weapon sets.

kratier

you all are just replying with variations of "git gud" when thats not my complaint at all, the system is lazy and poorly made, it is not enjoyable, fun in the slightest.

i would recommend like 15 different alternatives to the system we have now, i think the reason the guards are this way are just because of how everything in this game is level scaled, and their solution is just lazy.