Penalty for switching weapons

tunepunk

I would like to see a penalty for switching weapons/skill sets in combat. And I will name a few reasons, and some solutions, because i feel it's too powerful.

I switch quite often myself, depending on situation but I feel it's too easy and should have some penalty, or bonus for not switching.

Reasons why it's a good idea.

1. Builds based on a rotation using 2 skill sets will suffer a bit. And even out the odds for people who want to focus on a certain weapon type / skill set.
2. I don't like staffs I'm not a restoration healer and I dont wanna be forced carry one around only for self heals and buffs.
3. A secondary skillset should be secondary, either with some penalty or bonus to the primary or a mix to both.
4. It feels like switching is exploited because of the ease. Why not give players one skill bar with 10 skills and 2 ultimates instead? /sarcasm
5. It would make builds a bit more interesting.

Some solutions.

1. Add a 25-50% bonus to stats (stamina, magicka, regen, weapon power spell power), when using the primary set and/or a 25-50% penalty to secondary set. A secondary set would still be useful, but not as prominent. Even more awesome would be a slider so you could decide yourself the bonus/penalty ratio of your primary and secondary set.
2. The actual switching adds a 4-5 second penalty. Streak, dodge rolling, cc's and other skills are all on timers because too powerful so why not switching?

Cryptical

tunepunk wrote: »

Why not give players one skill bar with 10 skills and 2 ultimates instead?

When the console controllers magically sprout 5 more buttons, then this becomes a suggestion worth considering. Until then, keep in mind that the game is played on more platforms than just pc.

tunepunk

Cryptical wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

Why not give players one skill bar with 10 skills and 2 ultimates instead?

When the console controllers magically sprout 5 more buttons, then this becomes a suggestion worth considering. Until then, keep in mind that the game is played on more platforms than just pc.

That was just sarcasm to prove a point. I don't want 12 button on keyboard either.

AfkNinja

There is skill in knowing when to switch and when not. I would rather they not remove the skillful parts of the game. I think your idea is not well thought out considering if implemented you'd be restricted to using 5 skills for a majority of all content. This would be mind numbingly booring.

So I will respectfully disagree and say no thanks.

Vaoh

Ummm..... This would utterly kill the core-game experience.

So, I say No.

tunepunk

AfkNinja wrote: »

There is skill in knowing when to switch and when not. I would rather they not remove the skillful parts of the game. I think your idea is not well thought out considering if implemented you'd be restricted to using 5 skills for a majority of all content. This would be mind numbingly booring.

So I will respectfully disagree and say no thanks.

What's more skillful? Having 2 sets of 6 skills or one set of 12? The only reason it's designed this way is button limitations on console. Weilding 2 weapons of the same kind but with different traits and weapon glyphs, with exactly same skill setup doesn't make it less skillful, if you're using it at the right moment. My stance is the complete opposite. Weaving more at skills doesnt make you more skilled. I see it as an exploit because you can. Builds evolving to 12 button/skill builds, when i think original intent was 2 6 button builds for different situations that was never intended to synergizeas well as it does. ZOS has made changes towards this in the past, making sure weapon passives only work while the actual weapon is equipped, or while you have a certain skill slotted.

Good example. Bound Armor or sorcerer pets or other toggle skills are not nearly good enough to justify 2 slots in you 12 skill build. Why does it switch off when you change skill bar, why don't they just make it 20-30 second duration instead? Why does some passives only work unless you have a certain skill slotted or weapon equipped? It pretty clear weaving skills is more of an exploit than a feature, and exploit is not skill, it's basically cheating. For example: Getting a passive bonus for healing with weapon restoration staff, Why do you suddenly not get the passive bonus after you switched to your Dual wield bar? I agree, nimble fingers requires some skill, but I highly doubt it's intended to be a 12 skill build keeping up as many buffs, dots, weaving as many skills theoretically possible to win.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

We can understand that discussions such as this can get a little heated from time to time, however, we would like to kindly request that the thread be kept civil and constructive. To aid in this, we have taken a moment to remove a few non-constructive or even helpful posts.

Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

Elijah_Crow

I strongly but respectfully disagree.

Forestd16b14_ESO

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

From the Missing Sermons of Sotha Sil:

And the Clockwork God's voice echoed across the Aurbis, speaking to the one known as Tunepunk.

"If the mechanism has suffered no degradation, all attempts at repair are futile".

Spliffo

Lol

STEVIL

OK while I do not share the OP view that having two weapons types and shifting between is more powerful than having one weapon doubled up but for the sake of argument let's say it is.

The multi weapon char has spent skill points in two trees while the one weapon guy has those skills to spend elsewhere.

So, to the op, was that factored into your,assessments? Was the additional benefits of say crafted items or more morphed mage guild skills a factor?

How different is it in your experience to have one bar with staff skills and one with bow than to have one with bow and one with siphoning?

My experience has not shown any significant overall power diff. I have chars with same weapons on both bars and ones with different.

Thanks

Vangy

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

From the Missing Sermons of Sotha Sil:

And the Clockwork God's voice echoed across the Aurbis, speaking to the one known as Tunepunk.

"If the mechanism has suffered no degradation, all attempts at repair are futile".

^

I think bar swaps keeps combat fast paced and interesting. Using 2 kinds of weapons is kinda the whole point of bar swaps and if you choose to just use one kind of weapon on both bars, thats on you. No reason to ask for a penalty for those of us (99% who arent you), who are using different weapons on both bars to get a penalty.

Faulgor

Doncellius wrote: »

Ummm..... This would utterly kill the core-game experience.

So, I say No.

Considering the core-game is bonkers, I wouldn't be opposed to that.

tunepunk

To clarify and to keep it simple.

The skills on your primary bar would be a bit stronger. Let's say your main role is healer, tank, dps? why don't you want those skills to be a bit more effective, with the tradeoff of having some penalty on your secondary bar? Not game breaking, but let's you focus more on your primary skills, and do those more effectively.

It's not forcing you to using only one bar, but let's your prioritize skills that you find more effective in your build. If you wanna excel in Healing, DPS, Tanking whatever put those skills in primary bar to give them a bit more punch

Secondary skills that you don't find that important to your build goes in the secondary bar.

Switching would still be part of the core game mechanics, but gives you the option to focus on certain skills.

Anyway, It's just an idea that I think would make builds a bit more interesting.

Destruent

tunepunk wrote: »

To clarify and to keep it simple.

The skills on your primary bar would be a bit stronger. Let's say your main role is healer, tank, dps? why don't you want those skills to be a bit more effective, with the tradeoff of having some penalty on your secondary bar? Not game breaking, but let's you focus more on your primary skills, and do those more effectively.

It's not forcing you to using only one bar, but let's your prioritize skills that you find more effective in your build. If you wanna excel in Healing, DPS, Tanking whatever put those skills in primary bar to give them a bit more punch

Secondary skills that you don't find that important to your build goes in the secondary bar.

Switching would still be part of the core game mechanics, but gives you the option to focus on certain skills.

Anyway, It's just an idea that I think would make builds a bit more interesting.

This would just lead to switching skills more often. Now most players have one singletarget-bar and one more AoE-oriented bar. With your changes i'd change the skills vom front to backbar constantly during raids/dungeons. Doesn't sound like an improvement.

btw. If a a skill is not important, it's not on my bars...everything else i want to have as strong as possible.

Vangy

Destruent wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

To clarify and to keep it simple.

The skills on your primary bar would be a bit stronger. Let's say your main role is healer, tank, dps? why don't you want those skills to be a bit more effective, with the tradeoff of having some penalty on your secondary bar? Not game breaking, but let's you focus more on your primary skills, and do those more effectively.

It's not forcing you to using only one bar, but let's your prioritize skills that you find more effective in your build. If you wanna excel in Healing, DPS, Tanking whatever put those skills in primary bar to give them a bit more punch

Secondary skills that you don't find that important to your build goes in the secondary bar.

Switching would still be part of the core game mechanics, but gives you the option to focus on certain skills.

Anyway, It's just an idea that I think would make builds a bit more interesting.

This would just lead to switching skills more often. Now most players have one singletarget-bar and one more AoE-oriented bar. With your changes i'd change the skills vom front to backbar constantly during raids/dungeons. Doesn't sound like an improvement.

btw. If a a skill is not important, it's not on my bars...everything else i want to have as strong as possible.

This. So much. From what I read in the OP, his argument is basically that he dosent like to use 2 weapons and therefore everyone using 2 bars should get nerfed. No please. Bar swaps is easy. Because ITS MEANT TO BE. You are not bottlenecked into playing as a pure tank/pure healer/pure dps because of your main weapon choice. You could choose to go full QQ dps with a destro/DW in PVE and then double up with a sustain build using destro/resto in PVP. For stam, some fights require certain boss phases to be ranged, therefore you would want to equip a dw/bow or a 2h/bow. If your meelee weapon is your primary weapon, your bow bar is going to get nerfed for NO rhyme or reason. Bar swaps and the ease of it ADDS diversity to the game. It gives people the ability to use MANY different skills from completely DIFFERENT weapon lines in conjunction with their class abilities with 100% fluidity. This is NOT OP because everyone can do it. There is NO reason to equip the same type of weapon in both bars. Like why would I ever equip 2H/2H or Bow/Bow is beyond me. There's only like 2-3 usable skills per weapon line per weapon.

Ie: 2H : crit rush/wb/execute
Dest: impulse, force shock... uhm wall of elements in PVE i guess if you have Mael wep. Ele drain if youre a healer
Dw: Steel nado, flurry (pve), The rest are situational

I can go on and on, there's not enough skills in a particular weapon line to warrant it being used for both weapon slots unless you intend to run some specialized destro/destro DPS build. Even then, Id say you would do better with destro/DW due to higher spell power.

myrrrorb14_ESO

There is already a penalty for switching bars. There is a large pregnant pause where you are unable to use any slotted ability. You may not think it is much, but run a 3 minute boss fight switching bars every 25 seconds and you will see a significant drop in dps.

And then there is the bug that locks you out of doing anything if you switch bars and push buttons too fast...

Stannum

tunepunk wrote: »

I would like to see a penalty for switching weapons/skill sets in combat. And I will name a few reasons, and some solutions, because i feel it's too powerful.

try it in mass PvP ). When it's a 100+ battle everyone has lags and freezes so you'll feel weapon switching penalty very good ).

swirve

tunepunk wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

Why not give players one skill bar with 10 skills and 2 ultimates instead?

When the console controllers magically sprout 5 more buttons, then this becomes a suggestion worth considering. Until then, keep in mind that the game is played on more platforms than just pc.

That was just sarcasm to prove a point. I don't want 12 button on keyboard either.

Is that because you are casual in skill and play style and want to penalise optimal play

KaleidoscopeEyz

Tuuuuurible

Francescolg

There is also a HIGH penalty for switching weapons, it is: buggy game + lag!

I stopped counting how many times I have not been able to switch weapons in PvP (to heal myself, or for whatever reason).
I can assure you, no matter which patch, that weapon swapping put me on RISK because either a) weapon switch won't work (after break free + being cc'd for example), or b) skills won't work after weapon switch, or c) there is a short lag/bug immediately after switching, or d) etc. !

So there already is an (unwanted) penalty for weapon swap. If you don't know about it, you have not played ESO for a longer time, imo, or you're lucky and the game is free of bugs for you...

Thrasher91604

Yes, there already is a penalty for switching.

A big delay before being able to use another skill. And sometime ,the switch not even happening.

Buggy, laggy gameplay is a big enough penalty, thank you.

DaveMoeDee

swirve wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

Why not give players one skill bar with 10 skills and 2 ultimates instead?

When the console controllers magically sprout 5 more buttons, then this becomes a suggestion worth considering. Until then, keep in mind that the game is played on more platforms than just pc.

That was just sarcasm to prove a point. I don't want 12 button on keyboard either.

Is that because you are casual in skill and play style and want to penalise optimal play

Maybe they aren't into keyboard gymnastics.

RocDonald

I think the only problem with have 2 bars is having to slot certain powers in both bars to get said buff. I personally like having 2 bars, I usually run 1 offence and 1 defense/healing/regen, but it would certainly be nice to get said buff (magelight, flames of oblivion, etc.) on both bars while only having to slot it on one imho.

ADarklore

This totally would NOT work for me considering I have my main 2H bar full of class skills and my secondary DW with all my utility and healing skills. Also, OP seems to figure that everyone is playing this game in a group ROLE mode when he seems to be forgetting that the overwhelming number of players are SOLO players. Solo players have to be ALL roles- healer, DPS, and tank... penalizing bar switching would not benefit solo players at all. Furthermore, the devs created weapon swapping to give versatility and allow players to play 'how they want' not be forced or penalized to play someone else's way.

Lylith

dancing.in.the.webeb17_ESO wrote: »

tunepunk wrote: »

I would like to see a penalty for switching weapons/skill sets in combat. And I will name a few reasons, and some solutions, because i feel it's too powerful.

try it in mass PvP ). When it's a 100+ battle everyone has lags and freezes so you'll feel weapon switching penalty very good ).

assuming it even works, as it often does not in pvp.

the same can be said of vma.