Ultimate tank build.(Updated for DB)

Autolycus

TotterTates wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

@TotterTates @SmalltalkJava Regarding the Reactive Armor set, am I right in my following assumption?

For scenarios where you are stunned (unable to block), you can set your block mitigation to 0 for all damage types, and then add 35% to overall mitigation to compensate for the 5set bonus.

For scenarios where it procs but you can still block (like an immobilize or disorient), simply add 35% to the overall mit.

@Autolycus Nope, that would be an example of additive values. The way mitigation works in ESO is multiplicative. My best guess (without testing) is that this set's effects would occur post resist mitigation and alongside Maim/CP/Protection mitigation. This would reduce that 35% to less than 4% of your total non-blocking mitigation.

Ah okay, that makes sense. Thanks!

TotterTates

A more concrete explanation (rounding decimals when the arise):

Assume you are wearing reactive armor, have 50% resist mitigation, are not blocking, and you have 10% resist from CP.

An enemy's attack does 100 pre-mitigated damage.The enemy stuns you and then hits you with said attack.

Your resist mitigation drops the incoming damage value to 50 damage (100 - [50% of 100]).

The reactive armor bonus then drops the damage to 33 damage (50 - [35% of 50]).

Your CP then drops the damage to 30 damage (33 -[10% of 33]).

In this example reactive gave you 17% mitigation.

Keep in mind this is assuming reactive armor is factored into the equation prior to CP, without Maim, protection, passives, and other damage reduction abilities.

The more mitigation sources you add, the less effective any one particular mitigation value is... except for block mitigation, which is calculated before resist.

SmalltalkJava

I'm wondering if reactive works like the vampire mist form. which as a mage sorc that likes tanking concepts is intriguing. Vampire mist reduces the damage against my damage shield by 75%

Damn I wish we could print combat logs to text files for analysis

Autolycus

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

I'm wondering if reactive works like the vampire mist form. which as a mage sorc that likes tanking concepts is intriguing. Vampire mist reduces the damage against my damage shield by 75%

That's true, and has been utilized effectively before, to my knowledge. One drawback to this is your inability to receive healing while in mist form (or cast). It serves mostly as a "hey I'm going to try and get away, and I want you to do as little to me as possible in the meantime." It's not very practical in an active combat scenario.

Perhaps the biggest drawback to this, however, is simply having vampirism. Not only does it paint a big, fat target on your head for everyone using Evil/Camo Hunter, but it also makes you susceptible to massive damage procs from the skill itself. Personally, I don't have experience mitigating a Hunter proc with shields active. It could end up being manageable, but even if you can make it work, it's still a fairly big risk.

I also do a great deal of healing on one of my alts, and I can say that, from a healer's perspective, having a tank who uses Mist Form is usually very frustration. Often times your healer will be focusing on something else too, like damage, and if you're at <100% health and the healer feels you need to be capped off, being in mist form effectively burns that healer's magicka pool. One might think that it simply wastes a cast, but in practice, if the first cast doesn't work, another cast follows (and another, and another...), which results in a large magicka dump to no effect. Of course there are exceptions; some healers will pick up on this right away and not bother healing you at all while Mist Form is active.

In terms of mitigation, I don't think it's very complicated. Unless something changed that I'm unaware of, shields don't have a mitigation table. They don't take more/less damage from certain types of damage, and they don't scale with resistances, they can't be crit, etc. So the maths seem pretty simple to me, in that the damage done to your shield is simply 75% lower.

SmalltalkJava

I haven't actively used mist in a group for those exact reasons. The last time was for soloing using poison mist and healing ward to proc the heal that goes off when mist stops. I combined that with the light armor magicka absorb ward and my own shield to take the hits from the heal ward. While my pets do light dps. Low dps but soloing against mage damage I could go all day long. Mist doesn't drop any pbaoes that I have on me so I kept those up. Proxy det and my sorc electro pbaoe. But it was clunky and kinda boring.

I can't wait to see totters results for reactive armor.

nordsavage

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CrazyDevil

Should I craft this for dark brotherhood update ?!

Savos_Saren

@Zeg0ta

I know that you want to keep the group buffed as a tank and maintain high ultimate regeneration... have you considered Reviving Barrier vs Aggressive War Horn?

I know that it doesn't buff the DPS- but, it would make your whole group damn near unkillable and CONSTANTLY regen your ultimate. You'd quite literally be pumping out Reviving Barrier more than Aggressive War Horn.

Just a thought. Perhaps give it a try to see?

Zeg0ta

@jaburns Ill check this out. Are using this in pvp or pve? . But a couple things I dislike about reviving barrier. health regen is so underwhelming no dps is specing into Regen and healers should be more than enough to heal you through whatever. Second damage shields will get shot down almost the instant they go up. Doesn't seem worth it to have a damage shield up health regen and some ultimate gains over horn which gives increases to all stats increased dps and increased heals and with a good rotation in trials this should always be up.

Zeg0ta

@CrazyDevil I still see this being viable in dark brotherhood. Although I have some changes im going to try out since some of the armor traits have changed. Like switching to a 5 tava's 5 ebon or hiricine and 2 blood spawn. Reason is there a new weapon trait that generates ultimate and I'm thinking that might be better than the 10% reduction potentates offers. I'll update this thread once DB hits live.

KundaliniHero

DPS tanks are far better for 4 man content even vWGT and vICP. My NB magika tank has almost 4200 Spell Damage (fully buffed) and his resistances are close to cap, its not as "safe" as a human wall build but its certainly not boring and you're contributing to overall group damage while spamming war horn, besides fully mitigated tanks are only needed for 12-man Trials.

Autolycus

KundaliniHero wrote: »

DPS tanks are far better for 4 man content even vWGT and vICP. My NB magika tank has almost 4200 Spell Damage (fully buffed) and his resistances are close to cap, its not as "safe" as a human wall build but its certainly not boring and you're contributing to overall group damage while spamming war horn, besides fully mitigated tanks are only needed for 12-man Trials.

This is a trials build. Also, don't undervalue the use of War Horns in veteran dungeons. I run a NB tank with a Tava's / Blood Spawn setup and I can grant 3 war horns during the Kena fight alone in vWGT. Doing so typically forces dps so high that she skips her storm atronachs altogether, for the entire fight. So, what you're doing as far as a tank/dps hybrid goes, and what we're doing with a tank who rarely needs healing (which allows the healer to dps almost full time), are effectively accomplishing the same thing.

LordDragos

jaburns wrote: »

@Zeg0ta

I know that you want to keep the group buffed as a tank and maintain high ultimate regeneration... have you considered Reviving Barrier vs Aggressive War Horn?

I know that it doesn't buff the DPS- but, it would make your whole group damn near unkillable and CONSTANTLY regen your ultimate. You'd quite literally be pumping out Reviving Barrier more than Aggressive War Horn.

Just a thought. Perhaps give it a try to see?

i tank trials and i have tried reviving barrier in trials it clutched a hard mode sanctum boss run but the values are scaled off of magic pool, so its more effective if a healer runs it

Autolycus

LordDragos wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

@Zeg0ta

I know that you want to keep the group buffed as a tank and maintain high ultimate regeneration... have you considered Reviving Barrier vs Aggressive War Horn?

I know that it doesn't buff the DPS- but, it would make your whole group damn near unkillable and CONSTANTLY regen your ultimate. You'd quite literally be pumping out Reviving Barrier more than Aggressive War Horn.

Just a thought. Perhaps give it a try to see?

i tank trials and i have tried reviving barrier in trials it clutched a hard mode sanctum boss run but the values are scaled off of magic pool, so its more effective if a healer runs it

Also scales from Bastion, which is pretty intuitive, but maybe beneficial for anyone interested.

Savos_Saren

@Zeg0ta @Autolycus @LordDragos

Yeah, I was actually considering this for PVE small dungeon runs or perhaps Imperial City group sewer runs. I can see how it wouldn't be as effective in PVP.

LordDragos

jaburns wrote: »

@Zeg0ta @Autolycus @LordDragos

Yeah, I was actually considering this for PVE small dungeon runs or perhaps Imperial City group sewer runs. I can see how it wouldn't be as effective in PVP.

its definitely helpful but if you have good healers then shouldnt need, and definitely more effective on magic builds. the barrier on my tank does like 15k barrier which is good but on my magic builds its like 35k range which is huge, so that is why if a group runs then the reviving barrier and nova mit ulti for temp healers is a clutch combo.

on pve tank i run warhorn for group support and then a tanking ulti like ferocious leap or magma shell depending on situation.

with db patch magma shell may be more appealing as no sync is needed and it will work like barrier, so that may give you the defensive buff that you wanted and then have war horn on other bar for dps buff.

hrothbern

jaburns wrote: »

@Zeg0ta

I know that you want to keep the group buffed as a tank and maintain high ultimate regeneration... have you considered Reviving Barrier vs Aggressive War Horn?

I know that it doesn't buff the DPS- but, it would make your whole group damn near unkillable and CONSTANTLY regen your ultimate. You'd quite literally be pumping out Reviving Barrier more than Aggressive War Horn.

Just a thought. Perhaps give it a try to see?

@jaburns ,
The radius of Reviving Barrier is 12 meter, large enough for many Group players.
If there is a cap of 12.... the max Ultimate return would be 12 x 6 = 72.

Is there a smaller cap on the max players than can benefit ?

Autolycus

jaburns wrote: »

@Zeg0ta @Autolycus @LordDragos

Yeah, I was actually considering this for PVE small dungeon runs or perhaps Imperial City group sewer runs. I can see how it wouldn't be as effective in PVP.

Regarding PvP, it depends how you look at it. I'd probably switch things around a bit for PvP, but an ultimate build on a DK in pvp means steady damage and high sustain. A tank running around with a loadout (catered more specifically for pvp) similar to this could contribute quite a bit to a fight, especially considering Guard in the next update.

hrothbern wrote: »

jaburns wrote: »

@Zeg0ta

I know that you want to keep the group buffed as a tank and maintain high ultimate regeneration... have you considered Reviving Barrier vs Aggressive War Horn?

I know that it doesn't buff the DPS- but, it would make your whole group damn near unkillable and CONSTANTLY regen your ultimate. You'd quite literally be pumping out Reviving Barrier more than Aggressive War Horn.

Just a thought. Perhaps give it a try to see?

@jaburns ,
The radius of Reviving Barrier is 12 meter, large enough for many Group players.
If there is a cap of 12.... the max Ultimate return would be 12 x 6 = 72.

Is there a smaller cap on the max players than can benefit ?

Not sure. I thought it was 6, but I've not spent much time on it. I used to use it on my healer for SO runs, but it kind of fell out of the rotation for me because other ults are better (or at least my preference).

ThePaleItalian

This is awesome.

Thank you! I tanked on my PC up to VR14. Had all footman and everything. I stopped playing, came back to the PS4 and I am about to hit VR16 later tonight.

This is very helpful because I want to be able to tank like I always have. But also PVP with my dad and guild. So this really gives me an idea on what to put my points in and what caps with what.

ORC DK FTW!!!!!!!!!!!

Zeg0ta

@ThePaleItalian I'll update this once dB hits live I have a few changes in mind that I want to test out.

ThePaleItalian

@Zeg0ta

Thank you! I see they are adding some DPS to heavy armor which I am thankful for. I don't mind being a test dummy

Zeg0ta

Updated for DB DLC

MilwaukeeScott

Nice update. Thanks for sharing!

Kwik1

So what would be the most optimum race? I am not overly fond of Orc and was hoping something else would be better or at least as good?

Brrrofski

I used to run a tank on my Dk way back when.

I'm now running a sap tank and honestly, tanking is my favourite thing to do in the game currently.

Resistance isn't everything. I haven't tried trial tanking with my sap tank, but I've done every vet dungeon with no healer with 26k spell and 25k physical resistance... buffed. I play with 27k health and 18k stam. As long as you can sustain enough aggro, block and outsell incoming damage, you don't need crazy resistances.

Trials may be different. I'm comfortable with my sap tank now, so trials will be next. But while I'm sapping to outsell incoming damage, the dodge tank is sacrificing a bit of resistance for ult gain. So you do take a bit more damage, but your constantly getting resources back while also boosting the groups dps with warhorn meaning enemies die quicker.

Tanking is fun again though. Anyone who has a DK/templar tank should try a sap tank too. A lot of fun. Controlling the fight and non stop DPSing. Don't have anyway to measure on xbox, but when I run pugs with it, I know I'm out DPSing some DDs. Also the self healing (and group healing which shouldn't be overlooked) and self sustain means I can go with 3 dps and just nuke things.

Brrrofski

Kwik1 wrote: »

So what would be the most optimum race? I am not overly fond of Orc and was hoping something else would be better or at least as good?

Orc or imperial. Or gets 6% health and stam, 20% health regen and from next patch, 5% healing recieved. Imperial gets 12% health and 10% stam. Red diamond passive is pretty good too.

Redguard and nord are OK choices too. Again, nord will be improver next patch with 6% stam added.