Feel Like my Nb doesn't hit hard enough

leepalmer95

Been hit by some nasty SA's by some nb's, feel like my mag nb isn't hitting hard enough.

I'm on ps4 so TG hasn't hit yet but i've already got a build sorted out for it and a few idea's.

Hasn't got proxy yet (allience rank 14.5 ...) i'll have when TG comes either way, is proxy a game changer for a mag nb?

My concealed currently has a 10k tooltip, which i still feel doesn't hit hard enough. Doesn't seem like it anyway.

I currently have 36% crit, will have 46% when TG comes and will be using crit cloak so that will help it guess.

I decided to go a kind of sustain build, i'm a breton so whats a good amount of regen to have around, i have 1850 at the moment and still run out quite quickly, around 2k is ok i guess?



Whats everyone concealed/Sa tooltips?

Kammakazi

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Been hit by some nasty SA's by some nb's, feel like my mag nb isn't hitting hard enough.

I currently have 36% crit, will have 46% when TG comes and will be using crit cloak so that will help it guess.

Whats everyone concealed/Sa tooltips?

Well there's your problem. Those "nasty SA's" you've been getting hit by are from Stamblades with good WD, good Max Stamina, good Crit Damage, and decent Crit Chance.

leepalmer95

Kammakazi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Been hit by some nasty SA's by some nb's, feel like my mag nb isn't hitting hard enough.

I currently have 36% crit, will have 46% when TG comes and will be using crit cloak so that will help it guess.

Whats everyone concealed/Sa tooltips?

Well there's your problem. Those "nasty SA's" you've been getting hit by are from Stamblades with good WD, good Max Stamina, good Crit Damage, and decent Crit Chance.

How much crit is it worth investing in though, considering everytime i cloak i'll geta free crit next patch and everything tends to use shields.

I know some people who use around 60% crit but they give up so much sustain/base dmg to do that.

If a dk uses igneous your can't crit, sorc you can't crit, healing you can't crit... Seems like a bit of a gamble to invest a lot into it.

Also im expecting there to be a lot of sorc when TG hits.

GrimMauKin

My Nightblade doesn't hit very hard and I'm starting to rethink him too, but bear in mind though that there are a range of enchantments, Buffs and ways of spending your Champion Points available. If you pile everything into damage dealing you'll probably compromise protection, defence, regen and overall survivability. If you're not looking for an out and out gank build (who may have to cut and run if they don't kill early on) it can be quite a balancing act and there's also the role playing element and building the sort of character you want to play (rather than necessarily one that's optimised).

There's plenty of scope for playing around with different ways to build a character and that can be good fun in itself.

Knootewoot

Im a magblade with 2500 SD and 2300 recovery. I have around 40% crit normally.

Sometimes i slash someone with consealed weapon and it's like i slice his belly open and his guts fall out and he dies in 2 hits.

And sometimes it feels like i slap him in the face with a hanky and a few moments later they laugh over my corpse and you get whispers about fail-ganker etc.

So some just have good spell resistance and some don't is my guess.

leepalmer95

GrimMauKin wrote: »

My Nightblade doesn't hit very hard and I'm starting to rethink him too, but bear in mind though that there are a range of enchantments, Buffs and ways of spending your Champion Points available. If you pile everything into damage dealing you'll probably compromise protection, defence, regen and overall survivability. If you're not looking for an out and out gank build (who may have to cut and run if they don't kill early on) it can be quite a balancing act and there's also the role playing element and building the sort of character you want to play (rather than necessarily one that's optimised).

There's plenty of scope for playing around with different ways to build a character and that can be good fun in itself.

Yeah currently i have 2600 unbuffed SD and 38k mag magicka, next patch spell dmg should go up by 174, my regen should go to 2300~ and my mag magicka may go down slightly though.

Though i'll have alchemist so i'll get a big boost every so often.

Soleya

Knootewoot wrote: »

Im a magblade with 2500 SD and 2300 recovery. I have around 40% crit normally.

Sometimes i slash someone with consealed weapon and it's like i slice his belly open and his guts fall out and he dies in 2 hits.

And sometimes it feels like i slap him in the face with a hanky and a few moments later they laugh over my corpse and you get whispers about fail-ganker etc.

So some just have good spell resistance and some don't is my guess.

Just a guess, it could be the armor and champion points they have set? Might be reducing your crit and damage quite a bit.

The ones who just die probably aren't wearing heavy armor, shield, etc.

SneaK

Yes, proxy is a game changer for a Magblade.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

NB can't hit hard enough = Why isn't fear followed by my chosen attack an insta-kill?

TheHsN

yes...if you compare with My Stam Nb 4700 buffed WD and my Magicka nb 4700 Buffed SD MAgicka Nb doesnt give damage as much as my stamina nb.. Suprised Attacj hits like a crazy but concealed wepon like nothing... i dont know why it is like that exactly but thisi is reason i left playing M. Nb

MaxwellC

@leepalmer95
Oh yeah you get proxy with VD mate, you're literally a one man zerg buster.

Sunburnt_Penguin

I've been playing around in the Arena on my L48 MagNB (with ~260CPs) and I struggled at first. However, what I changed was that when in a 1v1 I now always make sure I crit cloak and have brutality up before I hit if they're not stunned. I can now pretty much hold my own with most of the V16s in there - only getting wrecked by a few Sorcs - but mid-fight if I feel like I'll lose I just cloak away and move on. Even if I die, it's typically a prolonged fight.

My rotation isn't the best but for my limited skill points (primarily a Healer and Enchanter) it currently does the job: crit cloak, lotus, crit cloak, concealed, fear, lotus, crit cloak, soul harvest (if available), repeat.

That's not intended to be a brag at all as I know I'm not the best player but it's just to highlight that utilising what you have available and keeping it simple can work. However, you could be referring to 1v1s, 1vX or XvX so what I've said is completely meaningless.

KingDuncanVII

TheHsN wrote: »

yes...if you compare with My Stam Nb 4700 buffed WD and my Magicka nb 4700 Buffed SD MAgicka Nb doesnt give damage as much as my stamina nb.. Suprised Attacj hits like a crazy but concealed wepon like nothing... i dont know why it is like that exactly but thisi is reason i left playing M. Nb

Are you on console? If so, it may be because a lot of people pour their CP into the passive that reduces Magic Damage (can max out to reducing 25% Magic Damage). So if you're going against someone who has that passive maxed out, you 10k tt damage is already down to 7.5k. Not to mention the spell resistance that person has.

revonine

Proxy Det is very very effective on magblade. I've about 2K less max magicka than you, and a lesser Concealed Tooltip also. 5x Kag's, 3 Seducer, 1x Kena. My gear isn't maxed, I didn't bother because of the patch roll-in tomorrow.
Damage doesn't have to be through the roof on a magblade, a well timed Lotus Fan - > proxy explosion -> Soul Harvest/ Concelaed from stealth -> proxy explosion -> Soul Harvest will severely dent someone's HP. Crippling Grasp is good to keep the pressure on, though at the moment I've already switched to crit cloak so I've switched Grasp out for Purge until tomorrow.
The only burst your gonna get on a magblade pre-proxy is assassins will. You'll get more single target burst with it that'a for sure but it's harder to use.

Sorcs will always give you trouble. Just comes with the territory of being a magicka user

Also, on a magblade, throw some spare points into Block Cost reduction and stamina recovery, it's very nice on a magblade to be able to roll and block for a bit when necessary.

LegacyDM

Forget the whole hitting hard as magicka nb and just go sap. Run your opponents out of resources and just heal yourself back up. You'll be able to 1vx and its more fun. Sustain > burst

LBxFinalDeath

Well you gotta keep in mind that theres an insane amount of ways to mitigate magic damage.

Very few ways to mitigate physical damage.

This alone explains why a SA hurts a lot more than a Concealed Blade.

Almost as many ways to counter and reduce magic damage as there are ways to counter cloak.

Personally I'm running near 3K unbuffed spell damage...like 30 points of spell dmg or so away from it on my Magblade (julianos and magnus all divines with spell dmg willpower jewelery) with 39K close to 40K magicka with purple food/inner light/and being a Breton...I was a stamblade for ages.

Oh and a 49% unbuffed spell crit that goes up to 59%....3% more gets added if I'm running with one of my Sorc friends but I dun' count dat since that is dependent on them.

I too feel like I dun' hit very hard, then every now and again I run into someone who doesn't go all the way into mitigating spell damage and I shred them with prox det and very few Concealed blades.

leepalmer95

I think i'll just hit harder when TG comes anyway, simply because people will be pulling points from magic dmg reduction to put into physical reduction and resistant.

So people won't be running 25% magic reduction anymore and will be around 15% or something hopefully.

When i finally get my undaunted passive and gold my equipment i could drop food for drinks, either magicka/stamina or hp + magicka recovery.

I'll have to see where my hp ends up without food first though.

Btw few Questions:

Quick Recovery or Blessed

What enchantments for my two swords?

Disease + magicka return/ irresistible dmg?

revonine

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I think i'll just hit harder when TG comes anyway, simply because people will be pulling points from magic dmg reduction to put into physical reduction and resistant.

So people won't be running 25% magic reduction anymore and will be around 15% or something hopefully.

When i finally get my undaunted passive and gold my equipment i could drop food for drinks, either magicka/stamina or hp + magicka recovery.

I'll have to see where my hp ends up without food first though.

Btw few Questions:

Quick Recovery or Blessed

What enchantments for my two swords?

Disease + magicka return/ irresistible dmg?

Quick Recovery. Your blue CP are better spent elsewhere, like increasing crit damage.

Erondil

10k concelead weapon should be more than enough, maybe try to use shadow mundus with drinks/gold food if you want more burst (12% crit damage is worth the ressources loss for burst build). 1850 is I think a tad too low if you want be able to sustain 1vX fights, I like to have 2k (I'm bosmer tho so I have worse magicka sustain than breton tho). Proxy is not a game change imo for sustained fights, but it is if what you like to do is bombing groups afk on ressources or zerg surfing.

leepalmer95

Erondil wrote: »

10k concelead weapon should be more than enough, maybe try to use shadow mundus with drinks/gold food if you want more burst (12% crit damage is worth the ressources loss for burst build). 1850 is I think a tad too low if you want be able to sustain 1vX fights, I like to have 2k (I'm bosmer tho so I have worse magicka sustain than breton tho). Proxy is not a game change imo for sustained fights, but it is if what you like to do is bombing groups afk on ressources or zerg surfing.

Maybe i should trade kag for juliannos or something, for more crit.

Though i feel 46% base crit + crit from cloak should be enough.

I'll have to see, I may have to go with drinks, likely the hp + magicka regen food though because i don't want to run around with 20k hp i like to have a bit more.

Still even without a max magicka food i should be able to hit around 37k magicka and around 2800~ un buffed spell dmg.

RazielSR

And regarding pve...what do you use for dungeon bosses? Magblades for dungeon bosses are not very good it seems. For AOE trash with sap you are the boss but when going single boss target...destro poison fire staff,merciless resolve,soul harvest,flame reach... With one of my chars, I use that and my dps doesnt go more than 10k and its like 8-9k almost all the time.

I have 3200 sd in ranged bar and 3550 in melee/aoe bar. 1300 mag reg and 39.500 mag. 50-52 crit

As a magblade,what rotation do you use for dung bosses?

for pve I wear 1 kena/julianos/magnus/torug

for pvp i go sustain with kagre/mag/seducer/julianos

Dunmer.

leepalmer95

RazielSR wrote: »

And regarding pve...what do you use for dungeon bosses? Magblades for dungeon bosses are not very good it seems. For AOE trash with sap you are the boss but when going single boss target...destro poison fire staff,merciless resolve,soul harvest,flame reach... With one of my chars, I use that and my dps doesnt go more than 10k and its like 8-9k almost all the time.

I have 3200 sd in ranged bar and 3550 in melee/aoe bar. 1300 mag reg and 39.500 mag. 50-52 crit

As a magblade,what rotation do you use for dung bosses?

for pve I wear 1 kena/julianos/magnus/torug

for pvp i go sustain with kagre/mag/seducer/julianos

Dunmer.

Basically the max (or near there) dps nb build is this:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pve-magicka-dps-by-iwm/

Tankqull

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Kammakazi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Been hit by some nasty SA's by some nb's, feel like my mag nb isn't hitting hard enough.

I currently have 36% crit, will have 46% when TG comes and will be using crit cloak so that will help it guess.

Whats everyone concealed/Sa tooltips?

Well there's your problem. Those "nasty SA's" you've been getting hit by are from Stamblades with good WD, good Max Stamina, good Crit Damage, and decent Crit Chance.

How much crit is it worth investing in though, considering everytime i cloak i'll geta free crit next patch and everything tends to use shields.

I know some people who use around 60% crit but they give up so much sustain/base dmg to do that.

If a dk uses igneous your can't crit, sorc you can't crit, healing you can't crit... Seems like a bit of a gamble to invest a lot into it.

Also im expecting there to be a lot of sorc when TG hits.

well the only class my stamblade doesent crit against are sorcs, everyone else has so tiny physical shields that it doesent matter if they have them or not...
depending if i´m having slotted camo hunter or not on my main DPS bar, i´m either at 56 or 66% crit rate.not sacrificing anything.

Curtdogg47

I run a Stamblade. More of a Gank build. And I have everything poured into damage, high crit and stamina. Its really about how l you want to play. I enjoy dealing big damage. But that comes at a price of being able to survive in a fight long enough to win.' If I don't have it won in 3-5 attacks I am done! if there is more than 2 people I am done if I can't stealth away and then reattack.
And then there is guys that have high resistances and shields. Who's health barely moves when I strike. They Can stand there while I blow through my resources then take there time cutting me a part! Running a high damage build has its great moments and has its moments where you look like a *** and you get a nice tea bagging!

Hawco10

I know the feeling all too well, might win a 1v1 here and there if I'm lucky, but if the fight goes past a few hits then i have to get out or I'm dead. I put a bunch of cp's into the spell resist and also into that thurmatage or whatever it's called, that brought my disease damage way up, got it to about 740 now, so just going to keep loading it up and hope for the best !

mtwiggz

Proxy Det is a must have for mageblade. Without Proxy you won't have enough burst to kill anyone who is half decent.

Mageblades have been hitting like limp noodles since 1.5. Occasionally you'll find players with low spell resist or players who don't know how to play that go down very easily. There's a very specific reason why you haven't seen many, if any, 1vX mageblade videos in recent memory. Other than the VD + Alc gank clips, which really anyone can do with good timing.

Egonieser

My magblade had 3.4k SD with dual wield and 36k magicka, but it actually felt very subpar compared to a staff build. DPS is so much faster with a staff because if you unleash a flurry of staff/swallow soul on your enemy (very cheap cost, long range and fast, and self-healing) their health goes down very rapidly, even sorc shields can't withstand the constant DPS pressure. Mix in a long range CC from prolonged agony (also a 10k DoT) and Cripling Grasp for 18k DoT and movement speed buff/debuff - it wreaks havoc on most classes and builds.

You guys need to understand, Magblade works best when played with sustain/utility approach, it is not a ganker, that is the strong point of a stamina NB. Even if you don't deal peak crits like a stamina NB would, you have the option for a vast selection of utility skills, debuffs, heals and very good and fast sustained DPS with powerful DoT's.
I have both stamina and magicka NB's but I must say - magicka NB outperforms stamina in almost every way and works against all setups of enemies, simply because of better selection of utilities, debuffs, self-healing and not to forget - constant ability to remain semi-invisible to avoid heavy hitting attacks.

Play it right and you will see. Spell power on It's own means nothing, balance is achieved through managing resources well, constant bombardment of very fast, yet not so powerful attacks and timed crowd control.

Heck, apply Cripling Grasp, Entropy, Prolonged agony DoTs and they on their own do over 5k dmg a second all together, and it's damage that can't be dodged out of, it can only be purged. And while that damage is ticking - bombard, bombard, bombard, that is the key to successful magicka NB play.

Hawco10

Egonieser wrote: »

My magblade had 3.4k SD with dual wield and 36k magicka, but it actually felt very subpar compared to a staff build. DPS is so much faster with a staff because if you unleash a flurry of staff/swallow soul on your enemy (very cheap cost, long range and fast, and self-healing) their health goes down very rapidly, even sorc shields can't withstand the constant DPS pressure. Mix in a long range CC from prolonged agony (also a 10k DoT) and Cripling Grasp for 18k DoT and movement speed buff/debuff - it wreaks havoc on most classes and builds.

You guys need to understand, Magblade works best when played with sustain/utility approach, it is not a ganker, that is the strong point of a stamina NB. Even if you don't deal peak crits like a stamina NB would, you have the option for a vast selection of utility skills, debuffs, heals and very good and fast sustained DPS with powerful DoT's.
I have both stamina and magicka NB's but I must say - magicka NB outperforms stamina in almost every way and works against all setups of enemies, simply because of better selection of utilities, debuffs, self-healing and not to forget - constant ability to remain semi-invisible to avoid heavy hitting attacks.

Play it right and you will see. Spell power on It's own means nothing, balance is achieved through managing resources well, constant bombardment of very fast, yet not so powerful attacks and timed crowd control.

Heck, apply Cripling Grasp, Entropy, Prolonged agony DoTs and they on their own do over 5k dmg a second all together, and it's damage that can't be dodged out of, it can only be purged. And while that damage is ticking - bombard, bombard, bombard, that is the key to successful magicka NB play.

So in other words, keep at range and not get stuck in a close up brawl? I think that's how I'm dying all the time, hit someone with lotus fan and then instead of jumping back or whatever, I end up getting stuck in a close up brawl then I'm dead...

vamp_emily

I think sometimes the Deathcap is messed up. Someone whispered me and said I was exploiting. They said my WB hit them at 43k.

leepalmer95

Egonieser wrote: »

My magblade had 3.4k SD with dual wield and 36k magicka, but it actually felt very subpar compared to a staff build. DPS is so much faster with a staff because if you unleash a flurry of staff/swallow soul on your enemy (very cheap cost, long range and fast, and self-healing) their health goes down very rapidly, even sorc shields can't withstand the constant DPS pressure. Mix in a long range CC from prolonged agony (also a 10k DoT) and Cripling Grasp for 18k DoT and movement speed buff/debuff - it wreaks havoc on most classes and builds.

You guys need to understand, Magblade works best when played with sustain/utility approach, it is not a ganker, that is the strong point of a stamina NB. Even if you don't deal peak crits like a stamina NB would, you have the option for a vast selection of utility skills, debuffs, heals and very good and fast sustained DPS with powerful DoT's.
I have both stamina and magicka NB's but I must say - magicka NB outperforms stamina in almost every way and works against all setups of enemies, simply because of better selection of utilities, debuffs, self-healing and not to forget - constant ability to remain semi-invisible to avoid heavy hitting attacks.

Play it right and you will see. Spell power on It's own means nothing, balance is achieved through managing resources well, constant bombardment of very fast, yet not so powerful attacks and timed crowd control.

Heck, apply Cripling Grasp, Entropy, Prolonged agony DoTs and they on their own do over 5k dmg a second all together, and it's damage that can't be dodged out of, it can only be purged. And while that damage is ticking - bombard, bombard, bombard, that is the key to successful magicka NB play.

Sounds boring to be fair.

If i was going to bother with a staff build i'd just make a sorc :P.

Magblades make the best gankers to be fair, only class in the game that can solo gank a lot of people at once.

I'll have to see tomorrow, maybe my proxy will show it's worth and it'll feel like i'm killing people a lot faster.

Egonieser

Hawco10 wrote: »

Egonieser wrote: »

My magblade had 3.4k SD with dual wield and 36k magicka, but it actually felt very subpar compared to a staff build. DPS is so much faster with a staff because if you unleash a flurry of staff/swallow soul on your enemy (very cheap cost, long range and fast, and self-healing) their health goes down very rapidly, even sorc shields can't withstand the constant DPS pressure. Mix in a long range CC from prolonged agony (also a 10k DoT) and Cripling Grasp for 18k DoT and movement speed buff/debuff - it wreaks havoc on most classes and builds.

You guys need to understand, Magblade works best when played with sustain/utility approach, it is not a ganker, that is the strong point of a stamina NB. Even if you don't deal peak crits like a stamina NB would, you have the option for a vast selection of utility skills, debuffs, heals and very good and fast sustained DPS with powerful DoT's.
I have both stamina and magicka NB's but I must say - magicka NB outperforms stamina in almost every way and works against all setups of enemies, simply because of better selection of utilities, debuffs, self-healing and not to forget - constant ability to remain semi-invisible to avoid heavy hitting attacks.

Play it right and you will see. Spell power on It's own means nothing, balance is achieved through managing resources well, constant bombardment of very fast, yet not so powerful attacks and timed crowd control.

Heck, apply Cripling Grasp, Entropy, Prolonged agony DoTs and they on their own do over 5k dmg a second all together, and it's damage that can't be dodged out of, it can only be purged. And while that damage is ticking - bombard, bombard, bombard, that is the key to successful magicka NB play.

So in other words, keep at range and not get stuck in a close up brawl? I think that's how I'm dying all the time, hit someone with lotus fan and then instead of jumping back or whatever, I end up getting stuck in a close up brawl then I'm dead...

Yep, by using Prolonged Agony and followed by Cripling Grasp, you severely incapacitate your enemy by slowing him down considerably and applying huge DoT's , while buffing your movement speed allowing you to keep your distance and bomb them from afar.
Obviously a magblade can go the melee approach but it will not be as effective as that of a stamina counterpart - as you would need lots of stamina to rolldodge, break free and also have less resistances that of a medium armour user.

Instead, you see someone closing in with gapcloser - cloak and he will miss, see a meteor circle around you? Cloak and it will miss, or any other attack. Then turn around, CC them, while they are breaking out of CC, debuff them and unleash a array of fast attacks while they're disoriented. Once that happens they always start to panic and try to desperately dodge/heal up/desperate to stay alive. That's where Prolonged Agony shines - it is long range and goes through rolldodge and interrupts their life-saving rotations, not to mention the drain on stamina.
Don't rush to gank them, out-sustain them, play smart. Leave the ganking to stamina builds. Use your Trump cards instead.