Veteran Maelstrom Arena - It's Time For Balance

Ariisen

No.

Paske

As someone that never finished vMA - the dificulty is fine.

I know a number of very good players that finished it.
How ? They spent hours into knowing how to, watched Youtube videos, crafted gold gear ... You know steped up to the challenge.

You know what they didnt do?
They didnt whine on forums.

Oh and did I mention some of them are PVP players ? They simply wanted the axe for that edge in Stam DK builds.

It basicly boils down to - L2P

Its a challenge.
Its supposed to be hard.
Thats kinda what challenge is. Something hard.
Not being spoon fed BiS ( Best in Slot ) gear like in WOW .

tunepunk

I have not even finished the regular one, but not complaining. MA is teaching me a lot about skills, gear, stats, and what they do, and how to improve. I remember my first try as a Magicka Sorc wielding bow, and I died so many times because playstyle as a glass cannon kiter in PvE was just not enough to handle regular enemies, but down them fast. Changed some skills and gear to improve regen and Damage shield and did a bit better. As a player I'm not really aware and very rarely block, roll dodge or try to avoid damage, i just go head on. I'm still learning a lot and my latest build does a bit less damage, but I survive better, since I'm not really fast to react I have to compensate with even more DS, Heals, Regen. I even changed to Whiterake's set and it has saved my life more times than I can count. Still learning but enjoying it.

Woeler

All Stages: L2P

KaylynT

Has Zos made save points for Malestrom with this new DLC?

Destruent

KaylynT wrote: »

Has Zos made save points for Malestrom with this new DLC?

Yes, progress will now be saved...dunno how exactly, but you'll find more information in the patch-notes-section.

Woeler wrote: »

All Stages: L2P

Not really, at least with stages 1 and 4 he doesn't hava any problems

blackronin83x

I hope in this case ZOS sticks to their guns and doesn't lower the difficulty. Can learning vMA be a pain? Yup. Even after beating it, can you sometimes backslide and have a bad round? Yup. But imo, for those of us that have beat it, totally worth it. Not everything, outside of PvP & Maw should be straight EZ mode OP. Study the builds, the hours of content available on youtube, talk to guildies and EARN it. If you still can't do it, well that's life.

Paulington

Everything listed in the OP is a nerf.

As an aside, I've done vMA with ZERO champion points up to stage six and legendary gear so whilst it is a lot harder it certainly isn't impossible and no-one has zero CP. Putting myself up to 100 CP allowed me to complete it and 100 CP is nothing now. Practice, practice and practice some more. Stamina can (and do) Flawless it.

ZOS have said repeatedly they will not nerf (erm, balance to you I guess) vMA because it's aspirational content that is meant to take tons of practice to beat. Every class and spec can complete (and Flawless) it, so where's the issue?

willymchilybily

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

With these changes, ~5% of the player base might be able to complete it. It would still require 501 CP and best-in-slot min-maxed gear. It would NOT solve the fact that stamina builds would still struggle a lot through it and the amount of stamina players completing it would still be under 1%. But it's not vMA's fault. Stamina desperately needs buffs in the healing/damage shield area.

Now let the <1% and mundus stone cheater crying begin..

@LegendaryArcher when i first completed it, it was with 330 CP and all purple gear and the molag kena helm was Vet 1. You dont need to min/max you need to learn the stage mechanics well enough to beat them.

Its practice and patients, and now with saves not even significant patients. I'd wait to see how people get on now with saves. now you can practice the stage you are stuck on you can get good, once you get good at all stages you can start to do full runs.

i also think changes to mechanics are a bit drastic. There is no hard mechanic, its just hard to survive because the damage mobs do, and it sometimes requires you to use the sigils. dumbing it down to a point and shoot exercise without the need to plan your movement and sigils and buffing isnt very inspired.

PrinceFabious

It took me about 2-3 months to finally beat vMSA. It took practice and patience. I can now beat it in about an hour nerfing it would really make our end game content less endgame

Jermu73

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I think that this kind of damage is not needed. Who in earth desing that kind of damage? Let say 25,000 is enough for 99 % playerbase.

DRXHarbinger

Jermu73 wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I think that this kind of damage is not needed. Who in earth desing that kind of damage? Let say 25,000 is enough for 99 % playerbase.

Probably round 4 arena 7 where you get 3 archers and they all stacked up. I've never had it that high from a single target but if all 3 spanked it out at once then quite possible it'd be that high.

Paulington

Jermu73 wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I think that this kind of damage is not needed. Who in earth desing that kind of damage? Let say 25,000 is enough for 99 % playerbase.

You do realise that damage is a DoT and actually ticks for about 8-10k per second? They just survived for a while and so the death recap shows a total of 105k. It's not an instant unavoidable one-hit. They just stood in the red and so died.

sirrmattus

I finally completed this on Friday (3/19) and ***.. stage 6 is by far the hardest for me.

MrTarkanian48

I also completed it for the first time this weekend.

No idea why, but usually get more hung up on stage 5 and stage 9 than any others.

I put a ton of hours into researching gear/youtube vids, grinding dungeons for helms and shoulders, grinding gold mats, and CP.

Not too mention probably at least 15-20 hours in vMA with unsuccessful attempts, and looking up guides/advice for different stages.

At the time it was the most frustrating thing I experienced in this game. Now that I have completed it, just before the TG patch hit on console, it is the most rewarding thing I have done in the game.

Now that I have the mechanics down I have beat it another two times, each time with a better score. Current best is 302k.

Don't nerf it. Put in the time to learn it.

My advice is to use the sigils. For the longest time I was not using them because I thought it would wreck my score. Once I realized my score was already wrecked because of how long the completion took, I started to use them at strategic points in certain rounds. Specifically the defense sigil when you are about to take alot of projectiles. I used sigils on my last run and still managed to make the weekly leaderboard for NB's on PS4.

LiquidSchwartz

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

Alright ZOS,

vMA has been out there long enough. The <1% Sorcerers have had their fun for quite some time now. It's time to make it available to your player base, at least for 5% of it.

What balancing it would look like:

Stage 1: No balance needed.
Stage 2: Slow down the blades.
Stage 3: Significantly reduce the damage. Disable pull attacks from enemies while the water is electrified. Remove the slow down dot from flowers.
Stage 4: No balance needed.
Stage 5: Significantly reduce the amount of enemies in the rounds. Make the troll always go to the platform closest to the player. Reduce the amount of Frost Atronachs to 1 at a time. Same for the giants. Reduce the last boss's health by 20%.
Stage 6: Reduce the frequency of Webspinner spawns and swarm attacks. Make Webspinners only appear when there are 3 or more pinions unwebbed. Remove the enrage mechanic from the last boss.
Stage 7: Remove the phase with 3 archers spawning at the same time. Prohibit Venomcallers from spawning or have them die instantly once the boss starts his "cry attack".
Stage 8: Remove the chain pull attack from the last boss or add a mechanic the prohibits pulls that end up in or go through AoE.
Stage 9: Boss fight: Reduce the Daedroths' HP by 50%. Reduce the crystals' HP by 20%. Reduce make the boss's attacks and mechanics (channeling, skull, etc.) depend on his health taken, not on time.

With these changes, ~5% of the player base might be able to complete it. It would still require 501 CP and best-in-slot min-maxed gear. It would NOT solve the fact that stamina builds would still struggle a lot through it and the amount of stamina players completing it would still be under 1%. But it's not vMA's fault. Stamina desperately needs buffs in the healing/damage shield area.

Now let the <1% and mundus stone cheater crying begin.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_TristanK @ZOS_KaiSchober when can we expect some balance? The normal version of MA it a cakewalk to 70%+ of your player base. And the best weapons are locked for <1% and mundus stone cheaters.

it already is a cakewalk on normal
vet isnt impossible you cant just walk in there with your pvp/dungeon build and think you can crush faces

you have to build FOR THE ARENA
its a solo trial

it takes practice

Preyfar

VMA is pretty hard, but... it's a good kind of hard. I can get to Round 6, but can't quite figure out how to best take down the final boss wit hmy build. But tat's not entirely a bad thing. It just means I need to work at it more.

My biggest issue is I just don't have enough fun doing VMA to keep trying. I find the campaign boring, and the rewards not worth it. I don't see a point in doing it if I won't know for sure if I'm going to get a Maelstrom weapon. That said, practice makes perfect, and the more you do it the better you get.

sirrmattus

I just dont see how its possible without a magick sorcerer

ButtersEP

Do not Nerf Vmsa... no... just no...

gamerguy757

Only thing I could agree with is lowering HP on the crystals. But in all honesty, it does seem that the VMA is built towards a Sorc. Hell, on all the mobs just spam Overload. But those crystals....bruh....

snejremllov

Just another cryout from a casual to nerf one of the few remaining pve challenges in this game. Yes it is a fact that stamina builds have a harder time in arena, but I know plenty of good players who have no issues doing it on stamina builds. And the way to balance the arena is then not to nerf the content itself but to balance the classes and builds.

The only ones who I have seen to struggle legitimately are pvp players who don't usually bother with pve and don't have properly optimized builds, and of course those with inferior skill. While the former group kind of has an excuse to take a while to learn this, people who are just not good enough need to simply get better through practise. Once you put in the time it requires to actually learn all the mechanics it becomes quite a rewarding experience.

OP is obviously just a crybaby who wants all the content nerfed down to his skilllevel (which seems to be incredibly low). I'm not even sure where this entitlement of being able to finish all the content just because you bought it comes from...
If you're not good enough to complete the hardest content, you simply don't deserve the BiS gear it drops.

GetGood, L2P and all that stuff.

remilafo

The crematorial guards on stage 9 do need a nerf.

You can't out run them, can't out heal them and can't out dps them.

It comes down to hoping you can deliver enough dps to them before they go fire phase.. stupid..

The BS rng in stage seven could use some polishing as well but as for the rest of it, it's fine.

Emma_Overload

The problem with VMSA isn't that it's too hard, but that it's the wrong kind of hard. Let me explain...

Remember those old school arcade games like Space Invaders and Pac-Man? That's what VMSA reminds me of, brutal twitch fests that rely on muscle memory and rote performance of pre-determined moves. I hate it!

The fact that the first thing anybody tells you about VMSA is to watch how-to videos on YouTube is a bad sign. It's like solving a Rubik's Cube puzzle by reading a book about it. This is not my idea of fun. I really wish MSA had been designed to allow for reactive, creative play, but it's not.

In VMSA, you either follow the required "choreography" or you die, it's that simple. And it sucks.

Stoney_McGeee

Being a mag DK, I've been getting to the last round with the boss, getting to a inch and cracking under pressure (so far), I don't think a nerf should be cried.
because do we really want all the end game gear that quick to achieve ?
Can you imagine how Waco gameplay would be if everyone was running around with Vmsa weapons? I'm glad on a few can actually get it down, but I despise the players who pay.
But that's none of my business.

Take the time to learn it, but don't expect to not die more then 500 times.

Joy_Division

Normally I think the response of "git gud" is insulting and not helpful, but in your case, I think it applies because you continuously refuse to consider the possibility that non-cheaters and people beyond the top 1% of the population can complete VMA.

Here is what you said in another post:

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

Because you're not using the cheat that gives you all mundus stones. Since the developers aren't playing their own content, they don't see how impossible it actually is, they only judge based on completion numbers. Those <1% that can complete it are cheaters. I wouldn't waste my time until they fix the mundus stone cheat and realize that their content is actually impossible.

I have 1 Mundas Stone. I am nowhere near the top 1% of the PvE player base. I can finish this in under 2 hours on a non-sorcerer.

Unlike you, I objectively examined what was killing me, made changes to my build & set-up and, most importantly, recognized what the dangerous enemies were and made intelligent use of the power boosts that ZoS has already provided for the non "elite" players.

Do you even see just how dumb some of your ideas of balancing are? "Stage 5: Make the troll always go to the platform closest to the player." Are you too lazy to move? If so, no matters, because you can range it down from a different island. "Stage 7: Remove the phase with 3 archers spawning at the same time." Just use the defensive power boost if you have trouble dealing with them. That's what it is there for! "Stage 8: Remove the chain pull attack from the last boss or add a mechanic the prohibits pulls that end up in or go through AoE." There already is a mechanic in the game for this. It's called block. Suggest you try the Coldharbour tutorial and become familiar with it.

Posts like yours that just ask for blanket nerfs because you are too myopic or prideful to consider that the main problem is the player detract from the legitimate issues with the arena. Instead of being constructive, you brand people who quite frankly are just better than you, or at least are willing to engage in honest introspection.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Yeah... how about NO!!!!

The only things that needs addressed in VMA are the lag and the horrible RNG. So glad I got sword and shield from the weekly again! (sidebar: who the heck uses this set? It is absolutely horrible).

I am all for some small adjustments here and there, but the stuff you point out is effectively calling for a huge nerf of the content. You certainly pointed out some of the more demanding parts of the arena, but I dont support making it a cakewalk. If these plans went into effect, this place would have absolutely no difficulty.

My 2 cents based on your proposals is that you need to figure out how to mitigate damage in a few spots. As @Joy_Division pointed out, that is was sigils are for. You also seem to need some more DPS, because you complain a lot about timers, HP pools and enrage mechanics. No, you cant tank or heal an arena to death and that is okay. It is not a balance issue because you need DPS to, you know, kill stuff. All classes are more than capable of a simplified DPS rotation to get the job done.

LadyNalcarya

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

The only things that needs addressed in VMA are the lag and the horrible RNG. So glad I got sword and shield from the weekly again! (sidebar: who the heck uses this set? It is absolutely horrible).

So much this^
I have average ping of 100, not perfect, but at least playable. As soon as I enter vMA (or nMA, doesnt matter), it jumps to 300+ and I'm getting kciked to login screen from time to time. The ping causes issues like teleporting mobs, being hit by aoe outside it etc.
And drop rate... Well, thsi is not even funny.

DRXHarbinger

^ blocking the chain on round 8 just makes the boss end up in your face.

OT just done it for the 1st time on stam NB. Caltrops and vigor are imperative. Park up the bosses on the caltrops and weave and sup attack your way through. This was using dual maelstrom axes ( 4k weapon damage with 2200 regen) healthy endurance with weapon glyphs. Use that flurry with the enchantment you get a monster power bonus on the next flurry. Rips the bosses down. Pathetic score didn't make leaderboard but figured it out now.

rokrdt05

remilafo wrote: »

The crematorial guards on stage 9 do need a nerf.

You can't out run them, can't out heal them and can't out dps them.

It comes down to hoping you can deliver enough dps to them before they go fire phase.. stupid..

The BS rng in stage seven could use some polishing as well but as for the rest of it, it's fine.

I think the hundreds of players who have completed vMA numerous amount of times would disagree with you.

It's true that you cannot out run them, but you can certainly out heal and out dps them. I would suggest taking a look at your own build to make up for lack heals/dps. You can circle strafe them, use harness/dampen magicka if you are a magicka player to absorb a good chunk of the attack, healing ward also does wonders here, and you can block the melee auto attacks. They really are a joke now, especially with the CP changes.

Lord_Wrath

I was looking forward to doing this after upgrading my jullianos gear. Im not a bad player at all, i have my CP in the right places, but the problem for me is I was LAGGING under 100 ping, funky things happening like input response timing issues with skills, 3rd person camera issues, its just beyond ridiculous.

My other issue was enemy damage. Ive watched the videos on what to do, but when i do it the tables turn out waaay differently for me. I can be at full health, have my shields up and within a second im dead with no chance to defend myself. Sometimes I have to spam shields JUST to survive these constant hits if im lucky. If I can die in a split second, that isnt fun or challenging to me, I just consider that unfair BS and wont bother with it again. There are more fun things to do than spend my time dropping dead for crappy rewards.