More Vicious Death Fun

Satiar · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

Xsorus · March 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

You're acting like TTK has some how changed a lot......In regards to stacking groups..yes the TTK has decreased for you guys

However for Solo players or anyone who wasn't stacking...TTK has always been really low

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I put that video up in September 2014.....

Meanwhile...This is what was going on for Zerg Balls back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

Ya....Super Fun....That was Patch 1.5 by the way...Which i find quite hilarious when i see you saying if we showed you 2.3 pvp to your 1.5 you would of all of quit....But showing you 1.5 Videos of gameplay you're like "Nah that was fine for us"

Satiar · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

You're acting like TTK has some how changed a lot......In regards to stacking groups..yes the TTK has decreased for you guys

However for Solo players or anyone who wasn't stacking...TTK has always been really low

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I put that video up in September 2014.....

Meanwhile...This is what was going on for Zerg Balls back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

Ya....Super Fun....That was Patch 1.5 by the way...Which i find quite hilarious when i see you saying if we showed you 2.3 pvp to your 1.5 you would of all of quit....But showing you 1.5 Videos of gameplay you're like "Nah that was fine for us"

I went out of my way to detail how 1.5 was ALSO highly effed up (good work ZoS) but maintained elements that made it engaging and tactical in ways 2.3 simply cannot match. And yes, TTK was much higher back than. If you were well-geared and knew what you were doing, with dynamic ulti and such you could be a beast.

I know you hate baddie zergers and all but I'm honestly surprised we aren't in basic agreement here. Battle strategy has been dumbed down patch after patch after patch until we are literally left with 2.3 where the entire tactic is literally "put out as much DPS as fast as possible before they do the same to you" and that is it. You're acting like we got rekt from this patch and are bent out of shape and came here to whine about it. Organized guilds are doing fine. KDR is the same. Last night we raided for 7 hours and wiped twice, once to horrible positioning on our part that Haxus took good advantage of and once to a hard crash that sent 15 people to desktop. Like, guilds are still doing fine and killing people and making AP. It's just the most stupid, dumbed down meta we've ever played in, and you can't even hear that because you're so intent on disliking how we play.

Xsorus · March 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

You're acting like TTK has some how changed a lot......In regards to stacking groups..yes the TTK has decreased for you guys

However for Solo players or anyone who wasn't stacking...TTK has always been really low

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I put that video up in September 2014.....

Meanwhile...This is what was going on for Zerg Balls back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

Ya....Super Fun....That was Patch 1.5 by the way...Which i find quite hilarious when i see you saying if we showed you 2.3 pvp to your 1.5 you would of all of quit....But showing you 1.5 Videos of gameplay you're like "Nah that was fine for us"

I went out of my way to detail how 1.5 was ALSO highly effed up (good work ZoS) but maintained elements that made it engaging and tactical in ways 2.3 simply cannot match. And yes, TTK was much higher back than. If you were well-geared and knew what you were doing, with dynamic ulti and such you could be a beast.

I know you hate baddie zergers and all but I'm honestly surprised we aren't in basic agreement here. Battle strategy has been dumbed down patch after patch after patch until we are literally left with 2.3 where the entire tactic is literally "put out as much DPS as fast as possible before they do the same to you" and that is it. You're acting like we got rekt from this patch and are bent out of shape and came here to whine about it. Organized guilds are doing fine. KDR is the same. Last night we raided for 7 hours and wiped twice, once to horrible positioning on our part that Haxus took good advantage of and once to a hard crash that sent 15 people to desktop. Like, guilds are still doing fine and killing people and making AP. It's just the most stupid, dumbed down meta we've ever played in, and you can't even hear that because you're so intent on disliking how we play.

TTK was higher if you were a stacking group in 1.5... However as someone who soloed in 1.5 quite a lot I can assure you the kill time is not vastly different. I will say you could do 1vsX a bit better if you were a blocker though.. That would of been a noticeable difference.... ill also use another example... Magicka dks were super great in 1.5 right? I also would instant kill them or kill them extremely fast just with lethal arrows alone...

Now that doesn't mean there wasn't things in 1.5 that I wish was here.. Soft caps for example...

But I find it highly suspect the biggest whiners in this patch so far are Zerg guild like yours and the things they cry about and often try to link to certain things that aren't comparable happens to be the things implemented to stop Zerg ballers from
Being the best.

Satiar · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

You're acting like TTK has some how changed a lot......In regards to stacking groups..yes the TTK has decreased for you guys

However for Solo players or anyone who wasn't stacking...TTK has always been really low

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I put that video up in September 2014.....

Meanwhile...This is what was going on for Zerg Balls back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

Ya....Super Fun....That was Patch 1.5 by the way...Which i find quite hilarious when i see you saying if we showed you 2.3 pvp to your 1.5 you would of all of quit....But showing you 1.5 Videos of gameplay you're like "Nah that was fine for us"

I went out of my way to detail how 1.5 was ALSO highly effed up (good work ZoS) but maintained elements that made it engaging and tactical in ways 2.3 simply cannot match. And yes, TTK was much higher back than. If you were well-geared and knew what you were doing, with dynamic ulti and such you could be a beast.

I know you hate baddie zergers and all but I'm honestly surprised we aren't in basic agreement here. Battle strategy has been dumbed down patch after patch after patch until we are literally left with 2.3 where the entire tactic is literally "put out as much DPS as fast as possible before they do the same to you" and that is it. You're acting like we got rekt from this patch and are bent out of shape and came here to whine about it. Organized guilds are doing fine. KDR is the same. Last night we raided for 7 hours and wiped twice, once to horrible positioning on our part that Haxus took good advantage of and once to a hard crash that sent 15 people to desktop. Like, guilds are still doing fine and killing people and making AP. It's just the most stupid, dumbed down meta we've ever played in, and you can't even hear that because you're so intent on disliking how we play.

TTK was higher if you were a stacking group in 1.5... However as someone who soloed in 1.5 quite a lot I can assure you the kill time is not vastly different. I will say you could do 1vsX a bit better if you were a blocker though.. That would of been a noticeable difference.... ill also use another example... Magicka dks were super great in 1.5 right? I also would instant kill them or kill them extremely fast just with lethal arrows alone...

Now that doesn't mean there wasn't things in 1.5 that I wish was here.. Soft caps for example...

But I find it highly suspect the biggest whiners in this patch so far are Zerg guild like yours and the things they cry about and often try to link to certain things that aren't comparable happens to be the things implemented to stop Zerg ballers from
Being the best.

Mate, if you're dismissing the substance of my argument simply because you don't like the guild I'm with and how we play, than there is quite simply no use in talking. I've put facts, examples and reasoning with my posts, and you can't simply argue around that with "but you play for VE".

I play in a "zerg guild" as you call it and yet I and most of my guildmates were entirely for the removal of AOE caps. By your logic we should have clung to them because they would make our style of play less viable.

And again, organized guilds like mine are *still* the best, because you can't nerf teamwork. Good players with good leads executing tactics with good teamwork will always > everyone else. Always. Only the particulars change. A fact some people just never seem to understand.

HoloYoitsu · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

But I find it highly suspect the biggest whiners in this patch so far are Zerg guild like yours and the things they cry about and often try to link to certain things that aren't comparable happens to be the things implemented to stop Zerg ballers from
Being the best.

It's true. I once saw them zerg so hard that Blizzard sent them a Cease and Desist for copyright infringement.

Dyride · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

You're acting like TTK has some how changed a lot......In regards to stacking groups..yes the TTK has decreased for you guys

However for Solo players or anyone who wasn't stacking...TTK has always been really low

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I put that video up in September 2014.....

Meanwhile...This is what was going on for Zerg Balls back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

Ya....Super Fun....That was Patch 1.5 by the way...Which i find quite hilarious when i see you saying if we showed you 2.3 pvp to your 1.5 you would of all of quit....But showing you 1.5 Videos of gameplay you're like "Nah that was fine for us"

I went out of my way to detail how 1.5 was ALSO highly effed up (good work ZoS) but maintained elements that made it engaging and tactical in ways 2.3 simply cannot match. And yes, TTK was much higher back than. If you were well-geared and knew what you were doing, with dynamic ulti and such you could be a beast.

I know you hate baddie zergers and all but I'm honestly surprised we aren't in basic agreement here. Battle strategy has been dumbed down patch after patch after patch until we are literally left with 2.3 where the entire tactic is literally "put out as much DPS as fast as possible before they do the same to you" and that is it. You're acting like we got rekt from this patch and are bent out of shape and came here to whine about it. Organized guilds are doing fine. KDR is the same. Last night we raided for 7 hours and wiped twice, once to horrible positioning on our part that Haxus took good advantage of and once to a hard crash that sent 15 people to desktop. Like, guilds are still doing fine and killing people and making AP. It's just the most stupid, dumbed down meta we've ever played in, and you can't even hear that because you're so intent on disliking how we play.

TTK was higher if you were a stacking group in 1.5... However as someone who soloed in 1.5 quite a lot I can assure you the kill time is not vastly different. I will say you could do 1vsX a bit better if you were a blocker though.. That would of been a noticeable difference.... ill also use another example... Magicka dks were super great in 1.5 right? I also would instant kill them or kill them extremely fast just with lethal arrows alone...

Now that doesn't mean there wasn't things in 1.5 that I wish was here.. Soft caps for example...

But I find it highly suspect the biggest whiners in this patch so far are Zerg guild like yours and the things they cry about and often try to link to certain things that aren't comparable happens to be the things implemented to stop Zerg ballers from
Being the best.

Today I learned, @Xsorus has always been a tryhard ganker(See bolded above and videos). Everything makes so much sense now.

I don't think you read any of @Satiar's second paragraph. Here is the TL;DR: We are fine and getting more kills than ever, but the game feels cheesier and less tactical. Guess that is our problem though.

zyk · March 2016

ZOS will probably balance vd by introducing a set with a 5 piece bonus that, when the wearer is killed by a vd explosion, causes the player with the killing blow to explode for 30k damage in a radius twice as large as that of vd.

I don't really have a problem with vd. I think it's incidental in the big picture because of the number and scope of the issues ESO PVP has. First and foremost, ZOS does not give it the resources it needs to be successful. This is why half-assed solutions like VD happen. IMO, PVP requires a comprehensive redesign by a dedicated team. ...which isn't going to happen.

To me, the worst parts of 2.3 are the bugs and lag. The rest is just another form of crappy, no better or worse than any of the iterations that came before. Every single meta has featured absurd cheese of one kind or another.

Xsorus · March 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

You're acting like TTK has some how changed a lot......In regards to stacking groups..yes the TTK has decreased for you guys

However for Solo players or anyone who wasn't stacking...TTK has always been really low

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I put that video up in September 2014.....

Meanwhile...This is what was going on for Zerg Balls back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

Ya....Super Fun....That was Patch 1.5 by the way...Which i find quite hilarious when i see you saying if we showed you 2.3 pvp to your 1.5 you would of all of quit....But showing you 1.5 Videos of gameplay you're like "Nah that was fine for us"

I went out of my way to detail how 1.5 was ALSO highly effed up (good work ZoS) but maintained elements that made it engaging and tactical in ways 2.3 simply cannot match. And yes, TTK was much higher back than. If you were well-geared and knew what you were doing, with dynamic ulti and such you could be a beast.

I know you hate baddie zergers and all but I'm honestly surprised we aren't in basic agreement here. Battle strategy has been dumbed down patch after patch after patch until we are literally left with 2.3 where the entire tactic is literally "put out as much DPS as fast as possible before they do the same to you" and that is it. You're acting like we got rekt from this patch and are bent out of shape and came here to whine about it. Organized guilds are doing fine. KDR is the same. Last night we raided for 7 hours and wiped twice, once to horrible positioning on our part that Haxus took good advantage of and once to a hard crash that sent 15 people to desktop. Like, guilds are still doing fine and killing people and making AP. It's just the most stupid, dumbed down meta we've ever played in, and you can't even hear that because you're so intent on disliking how we play.

TTK was higher if you were a stacking group in 1.5... However as someone who soloed in 1.5 quite a lot I can assure you the kill time is not vastly different. I will say you could do 1vsX a bit better if you were a blocker though.. That would of been a noticeable difference.... ill also use another example... Magicka dks were super great in 1.5 right? I also would instant kill them or kill them extremely fast just with lethal arrows alone...

Now that doesn't mean there wasn't things in 1.5 that I wish was here.. Soft caps for example...

But I find it highly suspect the biggest whiners in this patch so far are Zerg guild like yours and the things they cry about and often try to link to certain things that aren't comparable happens to be the things implemented to stop Zerg ballers from
Being the best.

Mate, if you're dismissing the substance of my argument simply because you don't like the guild I'm with and how we play, than there is quite simply no use in talking. I've put facts, examples and reasoning with my posts, and you can't simply argue around that with "but you play for VE".

I play in a "zerg guild" as you call it and yet I and most of my guildmates were entirely for the removal of AOE caps. By your logic we should have clung to them because they would make our style of play less viable.

And again, organized guilds like mine are *still* the best, because you can't nerf teamwork. Good players with good leads executing tactics with good teamwork will always > everyone else. Always. Only the particulars change. A fact some people just never seem to understand.

I'm dismissing your argument because I remember how 1.5 was, have videos of 1.5 and notice a pattern on who's whining and what they're whining about.

Also I personally don't view your guild as the best... If I had to choose any of the guilds I've seen I'd probably pick banana squad.... i always found their videos to be watchable.

Xsorus · March 2016

Dyride wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

You're acting like TTK has some how changed a lot......In regards to stacking groups..yes the TTK has decreased for you guys

However for Solo players or anyone who wasn't stacking...TTK has always been really low

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I put that video up in September 2014.....

Meanwhile...This is what was going on for Zerg Balls back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

Ya....Super Fun....That was Patch 1.5 by the way...Which i find quite hilarious when i see you saying if we showed you 2.3 pvp to your 1.5 you would of all of quit....But showing you 1.5 Videos of gameplay you're like "Nah that was fine for us"

I went out of my way to detail how 1.5 was ALSO highly effed up (good work ZoS) but maintained elements that made it engaging and tactical in ways 2.3 simply cannot match. And yes, TTK was much higher back than. If you were well-geared and knew what you were doing, with dynamic ulti and such you could be a beast.

I know you hate baddie zergers and all but I'm honestly surprised we aren't in basic agreement here. Battle strategy has been dumbed down patch after patch after patch until we are literally left with 2.3 where the entire tactic is literally "put out as much DPS as fast as possible before they do the same to you" and that is it. You're acting like we got rekt from this patch and are bent out of shape and came here to whine about it. Organized guilds are doing fine. KDR is the same. Last night we raided for 7 hours and wiped twice, once to horrible positioning on our part that Haxus took good advantage of and once to a hard crash that sent 15 people to desktop. Like, guilds are still doing fine and killing people and making AP. It's just the most stupid, dumbed down meta we've ever played in, and you can't even hear that because you're so intent on disliking how we play.

TTK was higher if you were a stacking group in 1.5... However as someone who soloed in 1.5 quite a lot I can assure you the kill time is not vastly different. I will say you could do 1vsX a bit better if you were a blocker though.. That would of been a noticeable difference.... ill also use another example... Magicka dks were super great in 1.5 right? I also would instant kill them or kill them extremely fast just with lethal arrows alone...

Now that doesn't mean there wasn't things in 1.5 that I wish was here.. Soft caps for example...

But I find it highly suspect the biggest whiners in this patch so far are Zerg guild like yours and the things they cry about and often try to link to certain things that aren't comparable happens to be the things implemented to stop Zerg ballers from
Being the best.

Today I learned, @Xsorus has always been a tryhard ganker(See bolded above and videos). Everything makes so much sense now.

I don't think you read any of @Satiar's second paragraph. Here is the TL;DR: We are fine and getting more kills than ever, but the game feels cheesier and less tactical. Guess that is our problem though.

Hmm you just now learned that I played a stamina dk for a vast majority of the games life and have multiple movies for well over a year now?

Ps a lot of my videos are small man videos.

Satiar · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

You're acting like TTK has some how changed a lot......In regards to stacking groups..yes the TTK has decreased for you guys

However for Solo players or anyone who wasn't stacking...TTK has always been really low

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I put that video up in September 2014.....

Meanwhile...This is what was going on for Zerg Balls back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

Ya....Super Fun....That was Patch 1.5 by the way...Which i find quite hilarious when i see you saying if we showed you 2.3 pvp to your 1.5 you would of all of quit....But showing you 1.5 Videos of gameplay you're like "Nah that was fine for us"

I went out of my way to detail how 1.5 was ALSO highly effed up (good work ZoS) but maintained elements that made it engaging and tactical in ways 2.3 simply cannot match. And yes, TTK was much higher back than. If you were well-geared and knew what you were doing, with dynamic ulti and such you could be a beast.

I know you hate baddie zergers and all but I'm honestly surprised we aren't in basic agreement here. Battle strategy has been dumbed down patch after patch after patch until we are literally left with 2.3 where the entire tactic is literally "put out as much DPS as fast as possible before they do the same to you" and that is it. You're acting like we got rekt from this patch and are bent out of shape and came here to whine about it. Organized guilds are doing fine. KDR is the same. Last night we raided for 7 hours and wiped twice, once to horrible positioning on our part that Haxus took good advantage of and once to a hard crash that sent 15 people to desktop. Like, guilds are still doing fine and killing people and making AP. It's just the most stupid, dumbed down meta we've ever played in, and you can't even hear that because you're so intent on disliking how we play.

TTK was higher if you were a stacking group in 1.5... However as someone who soloed in 1.5 quite a lot I can assure you the kill time is not vastly different. I will say you could do 1vsX a bit better if you were a blocker though.. That would of been a noticeable difference.... ill also use another example... Magicka dks were super great in 1.5 right? I also would instant kill them or kill them extremely fast just with lethal arrows alone...

Now that doesn't mean there wasn't things in 1.5 that I wish was here.. Soft caps for example...

But I find it highly suspect the biggest whiners in this patch so far are Zerg guild like yours and the things they cry about and often try to link to certain things that aren't comparable happens to be the things implemented to stop Zerg ballers from
Being the best.

Mate, if you're dismissing the substance of my argument simply because you don't like the guild I'm with and how we play, than there is quite simply no use in talking. I've put facts, examples and reasoning with my posts, and you can't simply argue around that with "but you play for VE".

I play in a "zerg guild" as you call it and yet I and most of my guildmates were entirely for the removal of AOE caps. By your logic we should have clung to them because they would make our style of play less viable.

And again, organized guilds like mine are *still* the best, because you can't nerf teamwork. Good players with good leads executing tactics with good teamwork will always > everyone else. Always. Only the particulars change. A fact some people just never seem to understand.

I'm dismissing your argument because I remember how 1.5 was, have videos of 1.5 and notice a pattern on who's whining and what they're whining about.

Also I personally don't view your guild as the best... If I had to choose any of the guilds I've seen I'd probably pick banana squad.... i always found their videos to be watchable.

I'm not going down the road of calling my guild "the best" or anything. I specified guilds "like mine" will always do well, guilds that dedicate themselves to learning a meta and employing good teamwork to make it happen.

As to the rest, lol. You never play groups, refuse to play groups, avoid group content and combat, yet invalidate the opinons a guild has BECAUSE they are a guild and play that content. It makes no sense and is impossible to argue against because it's a stupid, nonsense argument. Engage the substance of the argument.

Xsorus · March 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

You're acting like TTK has some how changed a lot......In regards to stacking groups..yes the TTK has decreased for you guys

However for Solo players or anyone who wasn't stacking...TTK has always been really low

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I put that video up in September 2014.....

Meanwhile...This is what was going on for Zerg Balls back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

Ya....Super Fun....That was Patch 1.5 by the way...Which i find quite hilarious when i see you saying if we showed you 2.3 pvp to your 1.5 you would of all of quit....But showing you 1.5 Videos of gameplay you're like "Nah that was fine for us"

I went out of my way to detail how 1.5 was ALSO highly effed up (good work ZoS) but maintained elements that made it engaging and tactical in ways 2.3 simply cannot match. And yes, TTK was much higher back than. If you were well-geared and knew what you were doing, with dynamic ulti and such you could be a beast.

I know you hate baddie zergers and all but I'm honestly surprised we aren't in basic agreement here. Battle strategy has been dumbed down patch after patch after patch until we are literally left with 2.3 where the entire tactic is literally "put out as much DPS as fast as possible before they do the same to you" and that is it. You're acting like we got rekt from this patch and are bent out of shape and came here to whine about it. Organized guilds are doing fine. KDR is the same. Last night we raided for 7 hours and wiped twice, once to horrible positioning on our part that Haxus took good advantage of and once to a hard crash that sent 15 people to desktop. Like, guilds are still doing fine and killing people and making AP. It's just the most stupid, dumbed down meta we've ever played in, and you can't even hear that because you're so intent on disliking how we play.

TTK was higher if you were a stacking group in 1.5... However as someone who soloed in 1.5 quite a lot I can assure you the kill time is not vastly different. I will say you could do 1vsX a bit better if you were a blocker though.. That would of been a noticeable difference.... ill also use another example... Magicka dks were super great in 1.5 right? I also would instant kill them or kill them extremely fast just with lethal arrows alone...

Now that doesn't mean there wasn't things in 1.5 that I wish was here.. Soft caps for example...

But I find it highly suspect the biggest whiners in this patch so far are Zerg guild like yours and the things they cry about and often try to link to certain things that aren't comparable happens to be the things implemented to stop Zerg ballers from
Being the best.

Mate, if you're dismissing the substance of my argument simply because you don't like the guild I'm with and how we play, than there is quite simply no use in talking. I've put facts, examples and reasoning with my posts, and you can't simply argue around that with "but you play for VE".

I play in a "zerg guild" as you call it and yet I and most of my guildmates were entirely for the removal of AOE caps. By your logic we should have clung to them because they would make our style of play less viable.

And again, organized guilds like mine are *still* the best, because you can't nerf teamwork. Good players with good leads executing tactics with good teamwork will always > everyone else. Always. Only the particulars change. A fact some people just never seem to understand.

I'm dismissing your argument because I remember how 1.5 was, have videos of 1.5 and notice a pattern on who's whining and what they're whining about.

Also I personally don't view your guild as the best... If I had to choose any of the guilds I've seen I'd probably pick banana squad.... i always found their videos to be watchable.

I'm not going down the road of calling my guild "the best" or anything. I specified guilds "like mine" will always do well, guilds that dedicate themselves to learning a meta and employing good teamwork to make it happen.

As to the rest, lol. You never play groups, refuse to play groups, avoid group content and combat, yet invalidate the opinons a guild has BECAUSE they are a guild and play that content. It makes no sense and is impossible to argue against because it's a stupid, nonsense argument. Engage the substance of the argument.

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Zheg · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

Satiar · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Are you actually gearing full nirn right now? Is that actually a thing?

Anyway this game did support stacking..Now it does not reward it as much..If you want to stack in this game you can be rewarded for it..However just like DAOC..stacking has disadvantages....In that you now can be blown up for doing it. Your problem seems to be you're stuck in the mindset that Stacking should just have benefits and now that it actually isn't completely safe the game is now bad. CU will opperate in the same fasion...The Boon/Bane system alone is a perfect example of that.

You now have to accept that you can get some really powerful advantages for stacking up..But at the same time there is now an actual Risk for doing it.

I think we can both agree that at this point, this game is pretty effed up in terms of mechanics, right? That's what I'm getting at more than anything, that they've degraded thier game to what it was is now. My Nirn example ties in, that is an old tactic, something that became *mandatory* for competitive guilds to run or you were simply out geared. Competitive players and guilds will always do what is needed to be competitive and pray that the devs don't make that "winning tactic" a dumb one.

A great example of this is TYSM. Pre launch they had awesome formation ideas with roles for tanks, snipers, casters, etc. When the game launched they quickly realized all that meant nothing, and the real strategy is to run trains of light armor resto/destro users and stacking all 3 barrier morphs.

That is ESO PvP in a nutshell. None of us came here to play a stack on crown, .5 second TTK game but it is what we have until we get something better. As much as I wish this game would get better, every patch has made the meta worse and worse. When VE first began transitioning into a raiding guild, big group play was still effed up but it was Much much much better than this. Juggling ultimate rotations, group positioning (because of WoE and negate spam) barriers, etc etc. it was still dumbed way down from what it could have been but it was still 100x better than the "prox up and hit shooting star" thing we've got going now.

If you showed a video of 2.3 PvP to my 1.5 guild I think we would have all just quit the game on the spot. Here's hoping the next one will be better

You're acting like TTK has some how changed a lot......In regards to stacking groups..yes the TTK has decreased for you guys

However for Solo players or anyone who wasn't stacking...TTK has always been really low

For example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6UPBx0dmeQ

I put that video up in September 2014.....

Meanwhile...This is what was going on for Zerg Balls back then

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBxXjYjgSIc

Ya....Super Fun....That was Patch 1.5 by the way...Which i find quite hilarious when i see you saying if we showed you 2.3 pvp to your 1.5 you would of all of quit....But showing you 1.5 Videos of gameplay you're like "Nah that was fine for us"

I went out of my way to detail how 1.5 was ALSO highly effed up (good work ZoS) but maintained elements that made it engaging and tactical in ways 2.3 simply cannot match. And yes, TTK was much higher back than. If you were well-geared and knew what you were doing, with dynamic ulti and such you could be a beast.

I know you hate baddie zergers and all but I'm honestly surprised we aren't in basic agreement here. Battle strategy has been dumbed down patch after patch after patch until we are literally left with 2.3 where the entire tactic is literally "put out as much DPS as fast as possible before they do the same to you" and that is it. You're acting like we got rekt from this patch and are bent out of shape and came here to whine about it. Organized guilds are doing fine. KDR is the same. Last night we raided for 7 hours and wiped twice, once to horrible positioning on our part that Haxus took good advantage of and once to a hard crash that sent 15 people to desktop. Like, guilds are still doing fine and killing people and making AP. It's just the most stupid, dumbed down meta we've ever played in, and you can't even hear that because you're so intent on disliking how we play.

TTK was higher if you were a stacking group in 1.5... However as someone who soloed in 1.5 quite a lot I can assure you the kill time is not vastly different. I will say you could do 1vsX a bit better if you were a blocker though.. That would of been a noticeable difference.... ill also use another example... Magicka dks were super great in 1.5 right? I also would instant kill them or kill them extremely fast just with lethal arrows alone...

Now that doesn't mean there wasn't things in 1.5 that I wish was here.. Soft caps for example...

But I find it highly suspect the biggest whiners in this patch so far are Zerg guild like yours and the things they cry about and often try to link to certain things that aren't comparable happens to be the things implemented to stop Zerg ballers from
Being the best.

Mate, if you're dismissing the substance of my argument simply because you don't like the guild I'm with and how we play, than there is quite simply no use in talking. I've put facts, examples and reasoning with my posts, and you can't simply argue around that with "but you play for VE".

I play in a "zerg guild" as you call it and yet I and most of my guildmates were entirely for the removal of AOE caps. By your logic we should have clung to them because they would make our style of play less viable.

And again, organized guilds like mine are *still* the best, because you can't nerf teamwork. Good players with good leads executing tactics with good teamwork will always > everyone else. Always. Only the particulars change. A fact some people just never seem to understand.

I'm dismissing your argument because I remember how 1.5 was, have videos of 1.5 and notice a pattern on who's whining and what they're whining about.

Also I personally don't view your guild as the best... If I had to choose any of the guilds I've seen I'd probably pick banana squad.... i always found their videos to be watchable.

I'm not going down the road of calling my guild "the best" or anything. I specified guilds "like mine" will always do well, guilds that dedicate themselves to learning a meta and employing good teamwork to make it happen.

As to the rest, lol. You never play groups, refuse to play groups, avoid group content and combat, yet invalidate the opinons a guild has BECAUSE they are a guild and play that content. It makes no sense and is impossible to argue against because it's a stupid, nonsense argument. Engage the substance of the argument.

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

This literally has nothing to do with *anything*. What are you even talking about now?

Satiar · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

Seriously tho, what guild is best wasn't waht i said and has nothing to do with anything. It's about good guilds adapting to metas no matter how stupid the meta is

KenaPKK · March 2016

Satiar wrote: »

MaximillianDiE wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused why all the groups crying about VD are going to CU when its released..

That game isn't going to be anymore forgiving to stacking.

We are hoping the game won't be built around stacking while simultaneously attempting to make stacking impossible.

Which is what this game does. Groups like mine don't *like* stacking any more than we liked a barrier rotation, or gearing full Nirn, or stacking harness magica or frag shields or anything else, it's just about ideal tactics. The trouble right now is that most things about the PvP in this game encourages stacking, everything from how heals work, to how support abilities work, to the range of ultimates and thier synergies, almost everything. Instead of fixing this, ZoS is just trying to brute force the issue with pure damage. It's this kind of lazy and ass-backwards system that we are desperate to get away from.

But please, continue with that mindset. We stack because it is in our DNA or something lol

Its a stupid set - supporting stupid 3 button play instead of doing the obvious and removing (or at least enlarging) aoe caps. Despite what Zeni clearly think this will have no impact on the decent guilds who are all largely already wearing this and abusing the *rap out of it now as well and know not to stack anyway so won't die to Sypher or any other magicka nb running this set. What it will do in the long run is drive the unorganised more casual players who group together for comfort away to games like BDO now that we're starting to see some viable alternative mmos out there and VD and the like causing insta deaths with a stupidly short TTK.

Pretty much.

I'm against it for the same reason I'm against most of the other changes this patch : TTK is way too low. If we really hate stacking and guilds using set formation that can be corrected without turning the game into some perverse, AOE version of CS:GO.

I loled.

RinaldoGandolphi · March 2016

This argument is ridiculous the VE members are some of the best in the game and all of them are every bit as good running alone as they are in a team.

Even sypher thinks VD is garbage, I thought it was trash and 99% of my pvp time was me alone or with 1-2 people but folks like us are just filthy zergers.

I was happy with the changes to siege and forward camps both make keep attacks and defenses more interesting, but other then that and removing AOE caps was really all that needed to be done.

Pvp is reduced to cast proxy, cast shooting star, use cc of your choice, wear VD profit.

Anyone who thinks this trash is good for the game don't know what a good game is. Fengrush had it right the early interations of this game didn't really have AOE caps, least not like what we have now.

Hey though it's good for the game that if the schmuck who happens to be standing next to you dies, you should too just because your a filthy zerger..what a joke.

The comical thing is how many don't realize that VD is ZOS flat out giving up on pvp. It means they will never fix it...let that settle in your stomach, it's obvious they will never remove AOE caps so they give you this VD garbage.

Shield breaker don't stop shield stackers does it? Shield stacking is still the biggest qq on the forum, somehow VD is supposed to stop zergs protected by an AOE cap....in reality VD only unleashes it's full damage potential against small groups of 6 or less due to the AOE caps, but since we hate zergs so much we will punish those 6 mans but those 24 mans will run business as usual with a few tweaks.

PS: folks need to stop hating on 24 mans if it wasn't for them your faction would never take a keep and you would be gate camped 99% of the time.

Xsorus · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

I dont know; I think now with VD they probably could.. They certainly were taking more number then you were with less people before the patch.... So I think with the new aoe options they'd do even better now

Xsorus · March 2016

Satiar wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

Seriously tho, what guild is best wasn't waht i said and has nothing to do with anything. It's about good guilds adapting to metas no matter how stupid the meta is

You're not really adapting though; you're sort of just complaining that the meta no longer provides you with only buffs and no cons.

Zheg · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

I dont know; I think now with VD they probably could.. They certainly were taking more number then you were with less people before the patch.... So I think with the new aoe options they'd do even better now

I just want to make sure we're on the same page here - the entirety for the baiting comments you keep dropping is based on watching youtube videos right - considering they play on EU and you play on NA and you've never actually pvp'd with or against them? No one is discrediting their capability, but I find it comical that you're talking this way after watching a few youtube highlights.

Zheg · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

Seriously tho, what guild is best wasn't waht i said and has nothing to do with anything. It's about good guilds adapting to metas no matter how stupid the meta is

You're not really adapting though; you're sort of just complaining that the meta no longer provides you with only buffs and no cons.

Our entire gearsets have changed guild wide, roles have been changed, healers are built completely differently, CP allotment is revamped, raid calls and strategy have completely changed, but yeah, no adapting here. You're delusional.

Xsorus · March 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

This argument is ridiculous the VE members are some of the best in the game and all of them are every bit as good running alone as they are in a team.

Even sypher thinks VD is garbage, I thought it was trash and 99% of my pvp time was me alone or with 1-2 people but folks like us are just filthy zergers.

I was happy with the changes to siege and forward camps both make keep attacks and defenses more interesting, but other then that and removing AOE caps was really all that needed to be done.

Pvp is reduced to cast proxy, cast shooting star, use cc of your choice, wear VD profit.

Anyone who thinks this trash is good for the game don't know what a good game is. Fengrush had it right the early interations of this game didn't really have AOE caps, least not like what we have now.

Hey though it's good for the game that if the schmuck who happens to be standing next to you dies, you should too just because your a filthy zerger..what a joke.

The comical thing is how many don't realize that VD is ZOS flat out giving up on pvp. It means they will never fix it...let that settle in your stomach, it's obvious they will never remove AOE caps so they give you this VD garbage.

Shield breaker don't stop shield stackers does it? Shield stacking is still the biggest qq on the forum, somehow VD is supposed to stop zergs protected by an AOE cap....in reality VD only unleashes it's full damage potential against small groups of 6 or less due to the AOE caps, but since we hate zergs so much we will punish those 6 mans but those 24 mans will run business as usual with a few tweaks.

PS: folks need to stop hating on 24 mans if it wasn't for them your faction would never take a keep and you would be gate camped 99% of the time.

Sypher thinks VD is garbage because it's a bandaid fix (which I happen to agree with..) but since it is currently the best thing to end an even worse garbage meta he's accepting of it. No one thinks VD is the best solution... Everyone here probably agrees aoe caps being removed is the absolute best option... But since that has already been declared not to ever happen until they boot Whobel from the team... We all have to settle for VD.

Also VD nor removal of aoe caps is not suppose to stop zerging.. DAOC had no aoe caps (for you Z) and it still had zerging...

Just like how shield breaker isn't suppose to stop shield stacking

Both sets do one thing; offer a specific disadvantage to certain metas... They won't stop those metas from happening but they do offer some counter play or risk for that specific play style.

Xsorus · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

I dont know; I think now with VD they probably could.. They certainly were taking more number then you were with less people before the patch.... So I think with the new aoe options they'd do even better now

I just want to make sure we're on the same page here - the entirety for the baiting comments you keep dropping is based on watching youtube videos right - considering they play on EU and you play on NA and you've never actually pvp'd with or against them? No one is discrediting their capability, but I find it comical that you're talking this way after watching a few youtube highlights.

so what you're saying is I can't form an opinion of them vs you based on watching highlight videos of them taking more numbers then what I've seen your guild do and then doing it with less numbers because I watched it through a video instead of actually in game... Even though the highlight itself clearly shows what they're doing...

I mean it doesn't really matter that I think they are the better guild.. Just my opinion.. I found their highlight videos to be better as they seemed to display more skill cause they relied on less numbers.. But who knows.. Maybe you're better at taking those 60 man raids in never around to see

You should probably do a highlight video

Zheg · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

I dont know; I think now with VD they probably could.. They certainly were taking more number then you were with less people before the patch.... So I think with the new aoe options they'd do even better now

I just want to make sure we're on the same page here - the entirety for the baiting comments you keep dropping is based on watching youtube videos right - considering they play on EU and you play on NA and you've never actually pvp'd with or against them? No one is discrediting their capability, but I find it comical that you're talking this way after watching a few youtube highlights.

so what you're saying is I can't form an opinion of them vs you based on watching highlight videos of them taking more numbers then what I've seen your guild do and then doing it with less numbers because I watched it through a video instead of actually in game... Even though the highlight itself clearly shows what they're doing...

I mean it doesn't really matter that I think they are the better guild.. Just my opinion.. I found their highlight videos to be better as they seemed to display more skill cause they relied on less numbers.. But who knows.. Maybe you're better at taking those 60 man raids in never around to see

You should probably do a highlight video

So if Steve showed you a video of 4 of us wiping 25 reds at bleakers you'd finally eat crow? Or if we linked you a video of us wiping 60 with 20?

This is just my personal opinion, but I've always thought of plastering forums with pvp videos to be tacky. I'm not implying BS is doing that (I rarely see videos from them in fact), but that seems to be the way to your heart. If you're posting a video to prove a point, demonstrate a build, using it to highlight feedback on issues in the game - that's one thing. With that said, I'm content VE isn't posting videos left and right, even though we certainly have the fights to do so on a nightly basis. A lot of our fights are recorded on members' youtube channels, they just aren't bombarding the forums with them because there's no need to. We use those recorded fights to review what worked and what didn't work. Posting a video isn't going to make the people we fight respect us any more, particularly when you post highlight reels of wins. There are certainly exceptions, but what you're suggesting is borderline narcissism, and you're not someone I'd take advice from.

People should recognize your capabilities based on in game fights, not highlight reels. You don't pvp near us on the map (and most of the time not even on the same campaign) so you have a bare-bones knowledge of what we do on a nightly basis, and fill in the gaps with random assumptions because we aren't putting up youtube highlights? Good talk.

Poxheart · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

Seriously tho, what guild is best wasn't waht i said and has nothing to do with anything. It's about good guilds adapting to metas no matter how stupid the meta is

You're not really adapting though; you're sort of just complaining that the meta no longer provides you with only buffs and no cons.

From what I've read of satiar's posts the opposite is true. He's complained that the changes have actually made it easier for his group to wrack up kills.

Xsorus · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

I dont know; I think now with VD they probably could.. They certainly were taking more number then you were with less people before the patch.... So I think with the new aoe options they'd do even better now

I just want to make sure we're on the same page here - the entirety for the baiting comments you keep dropping is based on watching youtube videos right - considering they play on EU and you play on NA and you've never actually pvp'd with or against them? No one is discrediting their capability, but I find it comical that you're talking this way after watching a few youtube highlights.

so what you're saying is I can't form an opinion of them vs you based on watching highlight videos of them taking more numbers then what I've seen your guild do and then doing it with less numbers because I watched it through a video instead of actually in game... Even though the highlight itself clearly shows what they're doing...

I mean it doesn't really matter that I think they are the better guild.. Just my opinion.. I found their highlight videos to be better as they seemed to display more skill cause they relied on less numbers.. But who knows.. Maybe you're better at taking those 60 man raids in never around to see

You should probably do a highlight video

So if Steve showed you a video of 4 of us wiping 25 reds at bleakers you'd finally eat crow? Or if we linked you a video of us wiping 60 with 20?

This is just my personal opinion, but I've always thought of plastering forums with pvp videos to be tacky. I'm not implying BS is doing that (I rarely see videos from them in fact), but that seems to be the way to your heart. If you're posting a video to prove a point, demonstrate a build, using it to highlight feedback on issues in the game - that's one thing. With that said, I'm content VE isn't posting videos left and right, even though we certainly have the fights to do so on a nightly basis. A lot of our fights are recorded on members' youtube channels, they just aren't bombarding the forums with them because there's no need to. We use those recorded fights to review what worked and what didn't work. Posting a video isn't going to make the people we fight respect us any more, particularly when you post highlight reels of wins. There are certainly exceptions, but what you're suggesting is borderline narcissism, and you're not someone I'd take advice from.

People should recognize your capabilities based on in game fights, not highlight reels. You don't pvp near us on the map (and most of the time not even on the same campaign) so you have a bare-bones knowledge of what we do on a nightly basis, and fill in the gaps with random assumptions because we aren't putting up youtube highlights? Good talk.

The way to my heart? I'm just basing on what I've seen in game and what few videos I've seen of BS and you guys... My opinion they're the better guild as they always seemed to rely on less numbers to kill more people. Like I said maybe you're running this super small number of people when I'm not around to see it taking out these huge numbers with these superior tactics and skills you been mentioning...

Zheg · March 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

I dont know; I think now with VD they probably could.. They certainly were taking more number then you were with less people before the patch.... So I think with the new aoe options they'd do even better now

I just want to make sure we're on the same page here - the entirety for the baiting comments you keep dropping is based on watching youtube videos right - considering they play on EU and you play on NA and you've never actually pvp'd with or against them? No one is discrediting their capability, but I find it comical that you're talking this way after watching a few youtube highlights.

so what you're saying is I can't form an opinion of them vs you based on watching highlight videos of them taking more numbers then what I've seen your guild do and then doing it with less numbers because I watched it through a video instead of actually in game... Even though the highlight itself clearly shows what they're doing...

I mean it doesn't really matter that I think they are the better guild.. Just my opinion.. I found their highlight videos to be better as they seemed to display more skill cause they relied on less numbers.. But who knows.. Maybe you're better at taking those 60 man raids in never around to see

You should probably do a highlight video

So if Steve showed you a video of 4 of us wiping 25 reds at bleakers you'd finally eat crow? Or if we linked you a video of us wiping 60 with 20?

This is just my personal opinion, but I've always thought of plastering forums with pvp videos to be tacky. I'm not implying BS is doing that (I rarely see videos from them in fact), but that seems to be the way to your heart. If you're posting a video to prove a point, demonstrate a build, using it to highlight feedback on issues in the game - that's one thing. With that said, I'm content VE isn't posting videos left and right, even though we certainly have the fights to do so on a nightly basis. A lot of our fights are recorded on members' youtube channels, they just aren't bombarding the forums with them because there's no need to. We use those recorded fights to review what worked and what didn't work. Posting a video isn't going to make the people we fight respect us any more, particularly when you post highlight reels of wins. There are certainly exceptions, but what you're suggesting is borderline narcissism, and you're not someone I'd take advice from.

People should recognize your capabilities based on in game fights, not highlight reels. You don't pvp near us on the map (and most of the time not even on the same campaign) so you have a bare-bones knowledge of what we do on a nightly basis, and fill in the gaps with random assumptions because we aren't putting up youtube highlights? Good talk.

The way to my heart? I'm just basing on what I've seen in game and what few videos I've seen of BS and you guys... My opinion they're the better guild as they always seemed to rely on less numbers to kill more people. Like I said maybe you're running this super small number of people when I'm not around to see it taking out these huge numbers with these superior tactics and skills you been mentioning...

I could start solo fights spell symming against an entire group (technically, wouldn't that be 0.5 players since I'd start at half hp?) and you'd still find a reason to disregard any feedback I give because you can't get past the guild tag. Convincing you is hopeless, efforts are mostly spent correcting you.

DisgracefulMind · March 2016

This is an amusing video =P

Vicious Death is still dirty as hell xD

Xsorus · March 2016

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know; I always found banana squad to be better then a guild like yours because they chose not to stack numbers well past needed and chose to do the exact same thing as your guild with less... I always viewed that as more skillful.

Also of the two of us; I've not only played in a group longer; I've actually stuck with just one group..... Unlike a certain someone who decided to go a different route.

Shouldn't you be talking about DAOC or something? You've gone like 4 posts in a row without doing so, I'm a little worried for you.

It's cute how you're trying to bait steve though. And no, I don't think banana squad can take on a 60 man pact militia group with their numbers, but we could. Everything you're talking about is scale.

I dont know; I think now with VD they probably could.. They certainly were taking more number then you were with less people before the patch.... So I think with the new aoe options they'd do even better now

I just want to make sure we're on the same page here - the entirety for the baiting comments you keep dropping is based on watching youtube videos right - considering they play on EU and you play on NA and you've never actually pvp'd with or against them? No one is discrediting their capability, but I find it comical that you're talking this way after watching a few youtube highlights.

so what you're saying is I can't form an opinion of them vs you based on watching highlight videos of them taking more numbers then what I've seen your guild do and then doing it with less numbers because I watched it through a video instead of actually in game... Even though the highlight itself clearly shows what they're doing...

I mean it doesn't really matter that I think they are the better guild.. Just my opinion.. I found their highlight videos to be better as they seemed to display more skill cause they relied on less numbers.. But who knows.. Maybe you're better at taking those 60 man raids in never around to see

You should probably do a highlight video

So if Steve showed you a video of 4 of us wiping 25 reds at bleakers you'd finally eat crow? Or if we linked you a video of us wiping 60 with 20?

This is just my personal opinion, but I've always thought of plastering forums with pvp videos to be tacky. I'm not implying BS is doing that (I rarely see videos from them in fact), but that seems to be the way to your heart. If you're posting a video to prove a point, demonstrate a build, using it to highlight feedback on issues in the game - that's one thing. With that said, I'm content VE isn't posting videos left and right, even though we certainly have the fights to do so on a nightly basis. A lot of our fights are recorded on members' youtube channels, they just aren't bombarding the forums with them because there's no need to. We use those recorded fights to review what worked and what didn't work. Posting a video isn't going to make the people we fight respect us any more, particularly when you post highlight reels of wins. There are certainly exceptions, but what you're suggesting is borderline narcissism, and you're not someone I'd take advice from.

People should recognize your capabilities based on in game fights, not highlight reels. You don't pvp near us on the map (and most of the time not even on the same campaign) so you have a bare-bones knowledge of what we do on a nightly basis, and fill in the gaps with random assumptions because we aren't putting up youtube highlights? Good talk.

The way to my heart? I'm just basing on what I've seen in game and what few videos I've seen of BS and you guys... My opinion they're the better guild as they always seemed to rely on less numbers to kill more people. Like I said maybe you're running this super small number of people when I'm not around to see it taking out these huge numbers with these superior tactics and skills you been mentioning...

I could start solo fights spell symming against an entire group (technically, wouldn't that be 0.5 players since I'd start at half hp?) and you'd still find a reason to disregard any feedback I give because you can't get past the guild tag. Convincing you is hopeless, efforts are mostly spent correcting you.

So you think I look on you poorly based entirely on your guild tag? You don't think that it's in any way consistent with my past opinions that I happen to view a guild who is known for running a low amount of people usually and around the number range I'm willing to support (8-12) and killing large numbers of people.. From what I've seen more then your guild... More favorably then a guild that's known to run 24 people .. A number I clearly view as zerging... Who's released videos of themselves doing exactly that as well...

You just think I decided I disliked you because I just don't like your guild....and I just randomly picked the one guild who happens to play how I prefer?

For the record I don't dislike your guild... I just think banana squad are the better players *shrug*

ToRelax · March 2016

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

PS: folks need to stop hating on 24 mans if it wasn't for them your faction would never take a keep and you would be gate camped 99% of the time.

By whom? 24 man groups or what? >_>