The TG Meta

Ishammael

1. Vicious Death (would be bad even if it didn't proc at half health)
2. Prox Det Buff (LOL)
3. Unreflectable Meteors (LOL)
4. Buffed Siege (fine by itself, but taken in context of other stuff... awful)
5. Wings reflection costs resources (game breaking, needs hotfix)
6. Templar House (four whole fried chickens and coke, dry white toast)
7. Nerfed movement speed (seriosuly, why?!)

A few NBs are gonna get some LOLs by running full burst mode with Alchemist and VD.
Templars are having fun with RD, but I'm sure they'd give that up to have BoL back and some actual defensive skills (cough *Bliding Flashes* cough).
Sorcs are bursting with the NBs.
Magicka DKs are... LOL

I'm only scratching the surface... but by god, this is probably the worst its been since 1.2.

_Chaos

Lord Ishammael is spot on. Worst patch since 1.2.

#EnoughIsEnoughZOSE

Fix my damn wings.

WillhelmBlack

1.6 PLOX

Xeven

This is how I feel in cyrodiil with all the snairs...

Psilent

Last night right before I went to bed; was standing half asleep at Alessia Farm. BAM! Death Recap... Proximity Detonation, Proximity Detonation, Vicious Death, Proximity Detonation, Vicious Death.

I said to myself "Sigh, got to remember when the flag U is red to move away... You just got wrecked.. Oh! Keep is not flagged! Oh! 21k defense tick! THANK YOU random Prox Det dude! If it wasn't for you I'd have missed that 21k tick! I LOVE YOU! YES I DO! SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!"

I actually didn't mind last patch's meta.. Far less meteors...

Edit: Forgot to add, the RotW Mail from that tick was a sharpened sword of vicious death that sold for 100k over night. Really loving that guy who killed me! xD

Joy_Division

Ishammael wrote: »

1. Vicious Death (would be bad even if it didn't proc at half health)
2. Prox Det Buff (LOL)
3. Unreflectable Meteors (LOL)
4. Buffed Siege (fine by itself, but taken in context of other stuff... awful)
5. Wings reflection costs resources (game breaking, needs hotfix)
6. Templar House (four whole fried chickens and coke, dry white toast)
7. Nerfed movement speed (seriosuly, why?!)

Haha love the reference to my favorite movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6OET3Zi20

Reverb

Things feel bad in Cyrodiil right now. Real bad.

Xeven

Stampede: 60% Snare
Lotus Fan: Immobilize + 60% Snare
Low Slash: 60% Snare
Bombard: Immobilize + 40% Snare
Warmth Passive: 30% Snare
Rending Slashes: 50% Snare
Caltrops: 30% Snare
Webs: 40% Snare
Cripple: Immobilize + 40% Snare
ALL GAP CLOSERS

It's like they're TRYING to make the game as ANNOYING and UNRESPONSIVE as possible.

Yo dawg we heard you like unresponsive games so we keep you snared 60% 24/7 and CC your ass every 5 seconds while you're being Lotus Fan spammed at 400++ ping. Please enjoy your adventures in Cyrodiil.

PosternHouse

Ishammael

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

1. Vicious Death (would be bad even if it didn't proc at half health)
2. Prox Det Buff (LOL)
3. Unreflectable Meteors (LOL)
4. Buffed Siege (fine by itself, but taken in context of other stuff... awful)
5. Wings reflection costs resources (game breaking, needs hotfix)
6. Templar House (four whole fried chickens and coke, dry white toast)
7. Nerfed movement speed (seriosuly, why?!)

Haha love the reference to my favorite movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6OET3Zi20

"Best damn chicken in the state."

"I got two honkies out there dressed like hasidic diamond merchants. The tall one wants..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Lava_Croft

I remember all of the marketing material from 2 years ago.

And I feel like a total idiot for thinking Zenimax Online Studios might very well be a respectable company that wouldn't blatantly screw over its customers.

Tomato

And the dodge roll exploit that is on YouTube that is still in the game.

KenaPKK

HAIL LORD ISHAMMAEL

As much as I laugh at blowing up the stupid zergs with VD, I hate the set. I hate proxy. I hate bombing things. These are unhealthy play styles for the game, and bandaid fixes for the overall ailment that is AoE caps.

I feel so, so bad for my DK brothers with this flappies bug. One of my close friends in this game is a mDK main who stuck it out through last patch because he loves the class, and he is devastated by this bug. He can't have fun playing the game like this, and it's painful to watch him so hurt and lost when he tries to play with us. I feel for you man. This bug *** sucks...and it's going unacknowledged.

Soloing is almost a thing of the past... I spend most of my time rallying my faction to defend Bleaker's or Chalman mine from EP so I can farm D ticks while I goof off in chats or ts, or watch streams on Twitch for actual entertainment. Everyone runs in 10 man groups these days, and if you get caught by one, the snares make it impossible to moooooove (as magicka). Heck, I've resorted to running 2h/resto on my mageblade when I go melee just so I can run Forward Momentum for snare immunity. The rest of the time, I use double staves and stay at a distance.

The siege buffs were needed. I love that part. The big siege stalls will become less common when people learn to open up multiple breaches, which is how keeps should be taken to begin with imo.

Honestly, if the game just didn't have proxy, VD, or AoE caps, and if the DK bug was fixed, and if snares were toned down by like half, and if magicka was given a source of snare immunity......ESO would be a pretty good game right now. The lag is not nearly as bad as it used to be, and other than the above, combat feels decently balanced now.

DaveMoeDee

What is 'templar house'

Jhunn

It's sad how for every patch, I'd pay to get the previous one back. And for every patch, I'm playing less and less.

Ishammael

Xeven wrote: »

Stampede: 60% Snare
Lotus Fan: Immobilize + 60% Snare
Low Slash: 60% Snare
Bombard: Immobilize + 40% Snare
Warmth Passive: 30% Snare
Rending Slashes: 50% Snare
Caltrops: 30% Snare
Webs: 40% Snare
Cripple: Immobilize + 40% Snare
ALL GAP CLOSERS

It's like they're TRYING to make the game as ANNOYING and UNRESPONSIVE as possible.

Yo dawg I heard you like unresponsive games so we keep you snared 60% 24/7 and CC your ass every 5 seconds while being Lotus Fan spammed at 300++ ping. Please enjoy your adventures in Cyrodiil.

Yeah man, the snare stuff is Awful. Awful awful awful.

KenaPKK wrote: »

HAIL LORD ISHAMMAEL

As much as I laugh at blowing up the stupid zergs with VD, I hate the set. I hate proxy. I hate bombing things. These are unhealthy play styles for the game, and bandaid fixes for the overall ailment that is AoE caps.

I feel so, so bad for my DK brothers with this flappies bug. One of my close friends in this game is a mDK main who stuck it out through last patch because he loves the class, and he is devastated by this bug. He can't have fun playing the game like this, and it's painful to watch him so hurt and lost when he tries to play with us. I feel for you man. This bug *** sucks...and it's going unacknowledged.

Soloing is almost a thing of the past... I spend most of my time rallying my faction to defend Bleaker's or Chalman mine from EP so I can farm D ticks while I goof off in chats or ts, or watch streams on Twitch for actual entertainment. Everyone runs in 10 man groups these days, and if you get caught by one, the snares make it impossible to moooooove (as magicka). Heck, I've resorted to running 2h/resto on my mageblade when I go melee just so I can run Forward Momentum for snare immunity. The rest of the time, I use double staves and stay at a distance.

The siege buffs were needed. I love that part. The big siege stalls will become less common when people learn to open up multiple breaches, which is how keeps should be taken to begin with imo.

Honestly, if the game just didn't have proxy, VD, or AoE caps, and if the DK bug was fixed, and if snares were toned down by like half, and if magicka was given a source of snare immunity......ESO would be a pretty good game right now. The lag is not nearly as bad as it used to be, and other than the above, combat feels decently balanced now.

I'm crying.

Agreed on most of your points. Do you realize what kind of tooltips you can get on VD? I've seen 30k+. Absolutely ridiculous. No skill or ability should have a 30k tooltip.

I transfered all my gear over to my Templar -- mDK is unplayable right now until wings gets fixed. Problem is that Templar is one of the clunkiest classes to play.

RE: snares. See Xeven above. So terrible right now. I'm actually using shuffle -- stam mgmt is hard mode though for magicka classes.

Here's the rub: I love this game. In fact, its the most fun video game I've played since Baldur's Gate II. All these changes make it so hard to keep playing though.

Minno

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

1. Vicious Death (would be bad even if it didn't proc at half health)
2. Prox Det Buff (LOL)
3. Unreflectable Meteors (LOL)
4. Buffed Siege (fine by itself, but taken in context of other stuff... awful)
5. Wings reflection costs resources (game breaking, needs hotfix)
6. Templar House (four whole fried chickens and coke, dry white toast)
7. Nerfed movement speed (seriosuly, why?!)

Haha love the reference to my favorite movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6OET3Zi20

"Best damn chicken in the state."

"I got two honkies out there dressed like hasidic diamond merchants. The tall one wants..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

The respect number was clutch.

Ishammael

Minno wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

1. Vicious Death (would be bad even if it didn't proc at half health)
2. Prox Det Buff (LOL)
3. Unreflectable Meteors (LOL)
4. Buffed Siege (fine by itself, but taken in context of other stuff... awful)
5. Wings reflection costs resources (game breaking, needs hotfix)
6. Templar House (four whole fried chickens and coke, dry white toast)
7. Nerfed movement speed (seriosuly, why?!)

Haha love the reference to my favorite movie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea6OET3Zi20

"Best damn chicken in the state."

"I got two honkies out there dressed like hasidic diamond merchants. The tall one wants..."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

The respect number was clutch.

Aretha could belt it like no other.

Satiar

It is so discouraging.

A lot of leads and officers in my guild, myself included, are pretty much here out of spite against the strongest anti-group patches in the history of the game. No one wants to call it quits because of a bad patch, part of being competitive is adapting. What we've found is not that we're not effective -- we get more kills and more AP than ever -- it's that the game just isn't fun.

You walk in snares 24-7. Constantly caltropped, rooted, bombarded, spammed by gap closers. Everything moves slow, it is infuriating to not have control of your character most of the time. Burst damage was massively upped, mitigation was shattered. My guild used to build for sustain fights, long battles you could win by out tanking, out sustaining. None of that now. I'm rolling around as a magica build with 1100 regen because it doesn't matter. The game is reduced to bomb bomb bomb.

If I didn't have a good group of friends I want to keep together to bring to another game, I wouldn't be playing this garbage. What a joke.

zyk

I do not believe VD is procing @ 50% health. In his recent video, Alcast's health was desynced. If you add the numbers, you can see he received more than enough net damage to be killed. The original post should be edited to stop false info from being propagated.

Half the problem is that players are slow to adapt. Many are too used to both moving stacked and just standing around in various locations.

Against highly mobile opponents who don't rely on stacking, VD becomes a pretty crappy 5 piece bonus.

GRxKnight

zyk wrote: »

Half the problem is that players are slow to adapt. Many are too used to both moving stacked and just standing around in various locations.

Against highly mobile opponents who don't rely on stacking, VD becomes a pretty crappy 5 piece bonus.

Problem is being mobile isn't easy anymore...it's almost impossible to maneuver through a fight without having to dodge roll out of bombard cheese, caltrops, talons, snares, roots etc.

zyk

GRxKnight wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Half the problem is that players are slow to adapt. Many are too used to both moving stacked and just standing around in various locations.

Against highly mobile opponents who don't rely on stacking, VD becomes a pretty crappy 5 piece bonus.

Problem is being mobile isn't easy anymore...it's almost impossible to maneuver through a fight without having to dodge roll out of bombard cheese, caltrops, talons, snares, roots etc.

I have been countering it.

For me, I played solo almost entirely from 1.4 through 2.0. CC has always been an issue for me that I've had to counter on my own. So this isn't a huge difference. When everyone was a Magicka DK, it was pretty much the same for me. The difference now is that I have to be smarter with rapids.

Satiar

GRxKnight wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Half the problem is that players are slow to adapt. Many are too used to both moving stacked and just standing around in various locations.

Against highly mobile opponents who don't rely on stacking, VD becomes a pretty crappy 5 piece bonus.

Problem is being mobile isn't easy anymore...it's almost impossible to maneuver through a fight without having to dodge roll out of bombard cheese, caltrops, talons, snares, roots etc.

As a magica build my best gap closer in these laggy, snare filled fights is freaking dodge roll

CtrlAltDlt

Xeven wrote: »

Stampede: 60% Snare
Lotus Fan: Immobilize + 60% Snare
Low Slash: 60% Snare
Bombard: Immobilize + 40% Snare
Warmth Passive: 30% Snare
Rending Slashes: 50% Snare
Caltrops: 30% Snare
Webs: 40% Snare
Cripple: Immobilize + 40% Snare
ALL GAP CLOSERS

It's like they're TRYING to make the game as ANNOYING and UNRESPONSIVE as possible.

Yo dawg I heard you like unresponsive games so we keep you snared 60% 24/7 and CC your ass every 5 seconds while being Lotus Fan spammed at 300++ ping. Please enjoy your adventures in Cyrodiil.

I couldn't agree more. Cyradil is a beeping snare fest. Pathetic stuff from ZOS

_Chaos

Satiar wrote: »

we get more kills and more AP than ever

Steve used "than" in the proper context, rejoice!
Pretty sure I just lost about 100k worth of bets though

Ishammael

Satiar wrote: »

It is so discouraging.

A lot of leads and officers in my guild, myself included, are pretty much here out of spite against the strongest anti-group patches in the history of the game. No one wants to call it quits because of a bad patch, part of being competitive is adapting. What we've found is not that we're not effective -- we get more kills and more AP than ever -- it's that the game just isn't fun.

You walk in snares 24-7. Constantly caltropped, rooted, bombarded, spammed by gap closers. Everything moves slow, it is infuriating to not have control of your character most of the time. Burst damage was massively upped, mitigation was shattered. My guild used to build for sustain fights, long battles you could win by out tanking, out sustaining. None of that now. I'm rolling around as a magica build with 1100 regen because it doesn't matter. The game is reduced to bomb bomb bomb.

If I didn't have a good group of friends I want to keep together to bring to another game, I wouldn't be playing this garbage. What a joke.

I only disagree with your last sentence, @Satiar , which is entirely the point.

When Cyrodiil works (i.e. no lag, competitive map, good opponents, etc.) it is almost a sublime experience. Cyrodiil is beautiful, fun, challenging, rewarding. Despite all the flaws at launch it was clear that this was the case. Review after review praised the AvA zone and content while disparaging the PvE content.

Yet we stand here two years later. Cyrodiil has almost been completely neglected in favor of PvE content. And the PvE content is still a joke! There is one trial. ONE! Everything except that trial, VMA, and ICP is face-to-keyboard easy, i.e. 99% of the PvE content. On the other hand, PvP players have amused themselves readily with no content additions which is a testament to how good Cyro PvP is at its core. In fact, we don't really ask for much except minor balance tweaks along the way and small content additions to go with (new outputs, capturable areas, etc.). Do you know how long it takes to finish Wrothgar zone? <10hrs. Thieves Guild? <10hrs. Then you're stuck with stupid repeatable fetch quests long abandoned in the 90s. If they added a new tower in between Roe and Brindle by god I would fight there all weekend! I would take the scroll there!

Sigh. The writing is on the wall, and has been for at least a year. Once CU beta drops we're all gone anyway. Hell, go watch the class description video released yesterday. Amazing.

Ishammael

zyk wrote: »

I do not believe VD is procing @ 50% health. In his recent video, Alcast's health was desynced. If you add the numbers, you can see he received more than enough net damage to be killed. The original post should be edited to stop false info from being propagated.

Half the problem is that players are slow to adapt. Many are too used to both moving stacked and just standing around in various locations.

Against highly mobile opponents who don't rely on stacking, VD becomes a pretty crappy 5 piece bonus.

What's the effective difference between health dysynch and VD procing early? In Alcast's case, none.

Regardless, what is the mobility option for mDK or mTemplar?

Ghost-Shot

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

we get more kills and more AP than ever

Steve used "than" in the proper context, rejoice!
Pretty sure I just lost about 100k worth of bets though

GET REKT!

Satiar

Ishammael wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

It is so discouraging.

A lot of leads and officers in my guild, myself included, are pretty much here out of spite against the strongest anti-group patches in the history of the game. No one wants to call it quits because of a bad patch, part of being competitive is adapting. What we've found is not that we're not effective -- we get more kills and more AP than ever -- it's that the game just isn't fun.

You walk in snares 24-7. Constantly caltropped, rooted, bombarded, spammed by gap closers. Everything moves slow, it is infuriating to not have control of your character most of the time. Burst damage was massively upped, mitigation was shattered. My guild used to build for sustain fights, long battles you could win by out tanking, out sustaining. None of that now. I'm rolling around as a magica build with 1100 regen because it doesn't matter. The game is reduced to bomb bomb bomb.

If I didn't have a good group of friends I want to keep together to bring to another game, I wouldn't be playing this garbage. What a joke.

I only disagree with your last sentence, @Satiar , which is entirely the point.

When Cyrodiil works (i.e. no lag, competitive map, good opponents, etc.) it is almost a sublime experience. Cyrodiil is beautiful, fun, challenging, rewarding. Despite all the flaws at launch it was clear that this was the case. Review after review praised the AvA zone and content while disparaging the PvE content.

Yet we stand here two years later. Cyrodiil has almost been completely neglected in favor of PvE content. And the PvE content is still a joke! There is one trial. ONE! Everything except that trial, VMA, and ICP is face-to-keyboard easy, i.e. 99% of the PvE content. On the other hand, PvP players have amused themselves readily with no content additions which is a testament to how good Cyro PvP is at its core. In fact, we don't really ask for much except minor balance tweaks along the way and small content additions to go with (new outputs, capturable areas, etc.). Do you know how long it takes to finish Wrothgar zone? <10hrs. Thieves Guild? <10hrs. Then you're stuck with stupid repeatable fetch quests long abandoned in the 90s. If they added a new tower in between Roe and Brindle by god I would fight there all weekend! I would take the scroll there!

Sigh. The writing is on the wall, and has been for at least a year. Once CU beta drops we're all gone anyway. Hell, go watch the class description video released yesterday. Amazing.

I have tried so long to have hope for this game, I just can't even pretend anymore. Why is it getting worse each patch?

Whyyyyyyyyyyyy

zyk

Ishammael wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

I do not believe VD is procing @ 50% health. In his recent video, Alcast's health was desynced. If you add the numbers, you can see he received more than enough net damage to be killed. The original post should be edited to stop false info from being propagated.

Half the problem is that players are slow to adapt. Many are too used to both moving stacked and just standing around in various locations.

Against highly mobile opponents who don't rely on stacking, VD becomes a pretty crappy 5 piece bonus.

What's the effective difference between health dysynch and VD procing early? In Alcast's case, none.

Regardless, what is the mobility option for mDK or mTemplar?

To be clear, VD did not kill Alcast in that video. The proc displayed in Recount was cosmetic and incidental. Read his thread. It has been analyzed to death. When it appeared he was half health, he was actually closer to 30% health and Radiant Destruction killed him.

Mobility for stamina builds? Retreating Maneuver, Shuffle, Forward Momentum, Blade Cloak? My 1.5 solo stam nb slotted efficient purge full time to help with CCs and fire siege.

_Chaos

zyk wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

I do not believe VD is procing @ 50% health. In his recent video, Alcast's health was desynced. If you add the numbers, you can see he received more than enough net damage to be killed. The original post should be edited to stop false info from being propagated.

Half the problem is that players are slow to adapt. Many are too used to both moving stacked and just standing around in various locations.

Against highly mobile opponents who don't rely on stacking, VD becomes a pretty crappy 5 piece bonus.

What's the effective difference between health dysynch and VD procing early? In Alcast's case, none.

Regardless, what is the mobility option for mDK or mTemplar?

To be clear, VD did not kill Alcast in that video. The proc displayed in Recount was cosmetic and incidental. Read his thread. It has been analyzed to death. When it appeared he was half health, he was actually closer to 30% health and Radiant Destruction killed him.

Mobility for stamina builds? Retreating Maneuver, Shuffle, Forward Momentum, Shuffle? My 1.5 stam nb slotted efficient purge full time to help with CCs and fire siege.

So what you're saying is... Nerf Radiant Destruction.