A Lore Mistake by ZOS?

k9mouse

Dear @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_GinaBruno, and @zos_LawrenceSchick:

I am hoping that the lore master could explain why some Khajiit names in the new Thieves Guild DLC are not breaking lore. I have review all the Khajiit names in other TES names and they do not match names like SilverPaw. SilverPaw sounds more Argonian and here is why:

There are three types of Argonian names.

1) 1-word names
2) Hyphenated Argonian names (sometimes the hyphen(s) are omitted)
3) Tamrielic/Cyrodilic names, with or without hyphens

Rule 3 is what is happening to many Khajiit names in the TG DLC.

I also checked a in game book in ESO and it does not have any Khajiit names or rules that fits the pattern like SilverPaw.

Can you explain why there are so many names that is in "common Termial tongue," not a Khajiit sound names like rest of TES and ESO? After doing the research, it seems that ZOS is making a mistake in lore with the Khajiit names in TG DLC.

Thanks,
-k9mouse

PS: I can live with bugs, Cyrodiil lag and much more. The only aspect that drive many players away when ZOS starts breaking TES lore. I have talked ZOS and they promised that they feel the same way.

LadyNalcarya

I thought those were just nicknames, like Sugar-Lips Habasi.

xellink

k9mouse wrote: »

Can you explain why there are so many names that is in "common Termial tongue," not a Khajiit sound names like rest of TES and ESO?

Because criminals don't use their real names?

Atreust

k9mouse wrote: »

PS: I can live with bugs, Cyrodiil lag and much more. The only aspect that drive many players away when ZOS starts breaking TES lore. I have talked ZOS and they promised that they feel the same way.

I could live with some minor TES lore being broken in exchange for fixed bugs and lack of lag in Cyrodiil.

SantieClaws

This one wonders what is so un khajiit about the name Silver Claw?

Tamriel is a world of many cultures and full of many travellers. It is not so strange these days for a kitten to be named after something or someone that might have been encountered in a far off land. There will always be those who seek interest and ideas outside of the lands and culture that they were born into.

This one also wonders if this Silver Claw might even be a distant cousin of hers.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Avianographer

It could be more of a codename that an actual name like is used by the Secret Service to refer to the President.

I would think it could possibly be a nickname (e.g. "Huskir the SilverPaw"), but nicknames for Khajiit would usually use honorifics. In this case, it would be "Huskir-Dar" or "Huskir-Daro" depending on the type of illegal activities performed (whether outright thievery in the case of the former or more subtle con-artistry and street crime in the case of the latter).

Shunravi

'The artful dodger' is a weird name to give your kid...

Steel_Brightblade

Same reason a couple in new Zealand tried to name their daughter "tallulah does the hula in Hawaii". Bad parents.

LadyNalcarya

FakeAlGore wrote: »

I would think it could possibly be a nickname (e.g. "Huskir the SilverPaw"), but nicknames for Khajiit would usually use honorifics. In this case, it would be "Huskir-Dar" or "Huskir-Daro" depending on the type of illegal activities performed (whether outright thievery in the case of the former or more subtle con-artistry and street crime in the case of the latter).

Yep, but it can be given by Redguard or Argonian or any other character that doesnt speak Ta'agra.

dimensional

It's just a nickname, relax.

jkemmery

I wonder if they actually considered lore, and then decided to go with a different type of name due it it being a criminal handle or nickname, or, if whoever wrote it at first just came up with something that was actually an Argonian type name by mistake and it slipped through the lore-checking process (if there is one). But considering it's for the Thieve's guild, it's pretty convenient that it could be attributed to being just a nickname.

k9mouse

Starting to feel a little about Khajiit nicknames; however, there is another aspect about Khajiit in TG mainly and few other places in ESO when Khajiits are not talking in 3rd person. A writer mistake?

dimensional

Ever been to Orsinium? There's a Khajit there raised by Orcs; he talks nothing like other Khajit. Irregularities are to be expected; in fact if every character in the game abides by their race's "rules" that would be the more unrealistic option. A real world has variety, even in places where you don't expect it.

Shunravi

k9mouse wrote: »

Starting to feel a little about Khajiit nicknames; however, there is another aspect about Khajiit in TG mainly and few other places in ESO when Khajiits are not talking in 3rd person. A writer mistake?

Talking in third person is a cultural thing.

Abeille

Notice Silver Paw doesn't talk in third person either. I doubt he grew up in Elsweyr.

There are Khajiit everywhere in Tamriel, and they do not necessarily follow Khajiiti traditions, including naming conventions.

Julianos

prolly they are code names since they are thieves they wouldnt use their real names ?

Abeille

Axorn wrote: »

prolly they are code names since they are thieves they wouldnt use their real names ?

That's very likely. Or it is just a nickname. Silver Paw is a merchant, after all. Maybe his birth name is long and not very easy to pronounce, so he has a nickname to make it easier to deal with people of other cultures.

DjSolJAH

Atreust wrote: »

k9mouse wrote: »

PS: I can live with bugs, Cyrodiil lag and much more. The only aspect that drive many players away when ZOS starts breaking TES lore. I have talked ZOS and they promised that they feel the same way.

I could live with some minor TES lore being broken in exchange for fixed bugs and lack of lag in Cyrodiil.

I could live with that

UrQuan

Abeille wrote: »

Notice Silver Paw doesn't talk in third person either. I doubt he grew up in Elsweyr.

There are Khajiit everywhere in Tamriel, and they do not necessarily follow Khajiiti traditions, including naming conventions.

This.

Khajiit who were raised in traditional Khajiit society (whether in Elseweyr or, well, elsewhere) should have traditional naming conventions (unless they're using nicknames) and generally speak the way we're used to Khajiit speaking. Those who were raised in other cultures likely wouldn't do either.

You should also get cases where a Khajiit may have been raised in a traditional Khajiit culture, but has since lived for quite some time in a different culture, and has adapted to that culture. This may include coming up with a new name that is easier for people in that culture to pronounce/remember, and/or trying to adopt the local speech patterns.

In the real world this is why you see people going by Harry and Roger when their names are really Harjit and Raj.

Recremen

Definitely probably nicknames to make things easier on uneducated foreigners. If my friend A'haren-dar has to hear one more fat Imperial tongue stumble over his name, his fur is going to fall out. Better to be known as "Sweet-Claw" or some other silly thing. Never even mind about how nobody properly pronounces the glottal stop in M'aiq the Liar's name.

k9mouse

True, I agree with you about RL examples, but I still a problem how Khajiits are being treated in ESO. This is a game / player POV, what I love TES games and about the Khajiit race is how they talk. I hate to lose that cool aspect. Even if it not that realistic, I still very, very, very, much prefer that still talk in 3rd person. If they talk 1st person like all other races, they will lose some of their special uniqueness.

dimensional

And guess what, 95% of the Khajit in the game *do* talk/are named like that. It's okay if a handful of them don't.

k9mouse

dimensional wrote: »

And guess what, 95% of the Khajit in the game *do* talk/are named like that. It's okay if a handful of them don't.

That is a bad habit to get into and I am bringing it up, in hopes that ZOS will stop that bad habit. 1st talk for Khajiits == ewww!

dimensional

It's not a habit. It was a specific, clearly chosen design decision when making an individual character. If anything, their "habit" (repeated behavior) is to design them as they usually are.

k9mouse

dimensional wrote: »

It's not a habit. It was a specific, clearly chosen design decision when making an individual character. If anything, their "habit" (repeated behavior) is to design them as they usually are.

ok, it is a "design decision" and it should stop and that is the point I am trying to make.

dimensional

Why? They should be allowed to make any character they want, whenever they want. I guarantee you the people writing the lore and characters at ZOS have a far greater feel for TES then any of us do. I for one am glad they introduce characters like this, it is boring to see every race always behave in a cookie cutter fashion.

Shunravi

dimensional wrote: »

Why? They should be allowed to make any character they want, whenever they want. I guarantee you the people writing the lore and characters at ZOS have a far greater feel for TES then any of us do. I for one am glad they introduce characters like this, it is boring to see every race always behave in a cookie cutter fashion.

I agree

k9mouse

dimensional wrote: »

Why? They should be allowed to make any character they want, whenever they want. I guarantee you the people writing the lore and characters at ZOS have a far greater feel for TES than any of us do. I for one am glad they introduce characters like this, it is boring to see every race always behave in a cookie cutter fashion.

because making Khajiit talking in 1st person will make the race like anything race in any given video game. Why make TES games flat in terms of one of kind races? How many other video games that have a race that talks in 3rd person as part of lore? Why lose that?

dimensional

Like I said before 95%, probably more than that, of all Khajit in the game already to talk like that. It's perfectly fine, and I would say GOOD for the lore, the believability of the world that we are in is a real, breathing space, for them to include characters that break from their normal race behavior. Almost every single NPC in the game behaves EXACTLY how you expect them to, according to their race. We need more of these, not less.

k9mouse

dimensional wrote: »

Like I said before 95%, probably more than that, of all Khajit in the game already to talk like that. It's perfectly fine, and I would say GOOD for the lore, the believability of the world that we are in is a real, breathing space, for them to include characters that break from their normal race behavior.

What happen when (not if) ZOS goes to far and every Khajiit talk in 1st person? Best never start on such a road.

Shunravi

k9mouse wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

Why? They should be allowed to make any character they want, whenever they want. I guarantee you the people writing the lore and characters at ZOS have a far greater feel for TES than any of us do. I for one am glad they introduce characters like this, it is boring to see every race always behave in a cookie cutter fashion.

because making Khajiit talking in 1st person will make the race like anything race in any given video game. Why make TES games flat in terms of one of kind races? How many other video games that have a race that talks in 3rd person as part of lore? Why lose that?

What makes something flat is having everything always one cookie cutter way with no exceptions.