Champion Points in PVP

AmalgamousPrime

Champion are a large issue in PVP that really hinder new and returning players. With the CP cap "seasons" they have implemented for players to catch up to those at the cap, why not just give everyone enlightenment until they hit that cap, isn't that the point of these catch up seasons? With the current system you aren't being rewarded with enlightenment by having more veteran characters, you are being punished for not having more veteran characters. I'm aware they are working on no CP campaigns, which I think is a bad idea for many reasons, but the one I'm using here is population. I don't know how it is on PS4 and PC, but Xbox has too many campaigns for its current player base, most campaigns just end up being farm campaigns, and none of them actually have an IC with equal representation of the three alliances.

I think CP was a terrible idea for PVP and the IC patch made Champion Points an even bigger focus in PVP with the changes to battle spirit. I am glad to see the game shifting towards more fair play with a reasonable ceiling for the majority of players to achieve, but the addition of no CP campaigns is just two steps back from this game starting to head in a good direction in my opinion.

TheRubiksCube

I don't agree with making the game easier in general, and champion points aren't even hard to get if you put in the time. If one didn't work hard for something, why should they still receive a reward?

I have mixed feelings on no CP campaigns because new players need a place to hone their skills e.g. blackwater blade and some vets might want to see what it's like to have no CP, but it would make Azura's an emptier place and has a chance of it becoming a place to farm for emperor on.

P.S. I agree that all three factions don't fill up every campaign, but I don't think we should shrink the number of campaigns in xbox because some people are complaining about lag, and condensing the population doesn't help.

FriedEggSandwich

The less cp you have the less xp you need to earn cp. This has the same effect as permanent enlightenment. If you earn the same amount of xp as someone who has more cp you will catch up.

More vet characters does not mean more enlightenment. Every player gets one cp worth of enlightenment every day to share amongst their characters.

Skinzz

Champion points is what makes the game unique as you can excel or be weak in some areas compared to other players plus it gives u so many options to truely "play how you want".

AmalgamousPrime

xskinzcity wrote: »

Champion points is what makes the game unique as you can excel or be weak in some areas compared to other players plus it gives u so many options to truely "play how you want".

I agree, but there is a significant advantage in having more CP than an opposing player. Why not bring everyone up to the same ceiling instead of having to grind weeks on end or creating a special handicap campaign. It's not a fix to the core issue, and having two seperate types of campaigns isn't going to help the process of balancing the classes.

DHale

I vote that I disagree with your entire post. The simple fact is ppl that play longer and play more should always be ahead of those that don't. Skill will always be the deciding factor in ESO. I have friends that play more they have more mats more undaunted more ap and more XP. That's how it is in life, in business, in the gym. On the basketball court or making model airplanes. The truth is 501 cp is not that big a deal I went to blackwater today (no cp) as a level 29 killed and killed a handful of players two of which were in thier 40's. They just weren't that good. Ppl use cp as an excuse it's a crutch to say if I had X champ points I would be a good player or powerful... Or y.

Trashkan

Azuras star no longer has Cp buffs so in other words no one has any passive abilities from the champ point system.

Trashkan

And for anyone who thinks cp isn't that big of a deal go solo a resource without cp and you will see a big difference.

Bofrari

There is a no cp campaign now just for you folks go jump in it

Jade1986

I absolutely adore the new NON CP Campaigns. No more getting stomped because people spend a lot more time playing the game. Now it comes down to skill. Ridiculous that I should get punished for having a job and life and only being able to play for 1 or 2 hours a day. I will never step foot into the CP campaigns ever again. Having far too much fun in the non CP ones.

AmalgamousPrime

DHale wrote: »

I vote that I disagree with your entire post. The simple fact is ppl that play longer and play more should always be ahead of those that don't. Skill will always be the deciding factor in ESO. I have friends that play more they have more mats more undaunted more ap and more XP. That's how it is in life, in business, in the gym. On the basketball court or making model airplanes. The truth is 501 cp is not that big a deal I went to blackwater today (no cp) as a level 29 killed and killed a handful of players two of which were in thier 40's. They just weren't that good. Ppl use cp as an excuse it's a crutch to say if I had X champ points I would be a good player or powerful... Or y.

CPs give compounding offensive and defensive bonuses, in this games burst meta, it's a pretty big deal. With abilities costing so much, you really arent left with much room to outplay an opponent who takes less damage, deals more damage to you, AND has more dodge rolls and CC breaks at their disposal. If they ever took off the cap, I'd love to see how you would fare against the PC transfers on console. There is a very good reason the cap was implemented.

Cody

laced wrote: »

I absolutely adore the new NON CP Campaigns. No more getting stomped because people spend a lot more time playing the game. Now it comes down to skill. Ridiculous that I should get punished for having a job and life and only being able to play for 1 or 2 hours a day. I will never step foot into the CP campaigns ever again. Having far too much fun in the non CP ones.

indeed. I myself only have 3 or 4 hours on average max, and I do not want to spend that time getting killed simply because I did not have as much time as someone else to play. Now I can play at my pace comfortably and not worry about falling behind.

The-Baconator

How are people still acting like this is a major issue? Its capped overall and you can no longer use cps in nonvet camps. Beyond giving everyone static stats when they enter pvp they really can't do much more without destroying any semblance of progression for those that haven't reached the cap yet.

AmalgamousPrime

The-Baconator wrote: »

How are people still acting like this is a major issue? Its capped overall and you can no longer use cps in nonvet camps. Beyond giving everyone static stats when they enter pvp they really can't do much more without destroying any semblance of progression for those that haven't reached the cap yet.

The problem is that CP even existed in the first place in PVP. I'm merely suggesting that instead of their removal, why not tweak the system for players to be on even playing field with their own customization for build performance. All removing them right now does is emphasize the imbalance of racial passives in the current game. The place where CP are the most important is also the worst way to acquire them.

The creation of non-vet campaigns is a clear sign the playerbase isnt happy with how the system works, I'm merely suggesting a way to remove the CP imbalance between new and old players, but keep the aspect of variety for individual playstyles.

All non-vet campaigns will do to console is have one constantly full campaign, while the rest are ghost towns to farm emperorship.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

The CP boogie monster is back I see.

Myth: I can't be competitive without (X) CP.

Wrong. You can be competitive. CP do not make you. Now, if you have 1 CP and your opponent has 500 you'll get trounced 99% of the time. That, however, doesn't take into account the fact that someone with 500 CP has a ridiculously superior amount of experience in battle. People get competitive mixed up with dominant.

Personally I have about 230 CP. I win some, and I lose some. Rarely do I get my butt handed to me except in 1 on 1 situations, but as a Magicka Templar I'm not built for 1 on 1s.

That said, I personally find it rewarding when I take down a higher level player. I like the disparity and if I've earned my stripes this far getting beat on by better players you better believe I'm gonna enjoy frying the newbies.

Minalan

laced wrote: »

I absolutely adore the new NON CP Campaigns. No more getting stomped because people spend a lot more time playing the game. Now it comes down to skill. Ridiculous that I should get punished for having a job and life and only being able to play for 1 or 2 hours a day. I will never step foot into the CP campaigns ever again. Having far too much fun in the non CP ones.

Azuras star on NA PC is just an AD emperor farm. Every single mine, farm, and tower belongs to them. Nobody else cares or bothers to play there. I thought it would be a good place for my V1 to play until he has a few hundred CL, but no. It's completely empty.

When you can take a tower back with five guys and only one person shows up to defend, it's time to go elsewhere. Unless you're one of *those* guys who really likes winning against the computer, over and over again...

Jade1986

Minalan wrote: »

laced wrote: »

I absolutely adore the new NON CP Campaigns. No more getting stomped because people spend a lot more time playing the game. Now it comes down to skill. Ridiculous that I should get punished for having a job and life and only being able to play for 1 or 2 hours a day. I will never step foot into the CP campaigns ever again. Having far too much fun in the non CP ones.

Azuras star on NA PC is just an AD emperor farm. Every single mine, farm, and tower belongs to them. Nobody else cares or bothers to play there. I thought it would be a good place for my V1 to play until he has a few hundred CL, but no. It's completely empty.

When you can take a tower back with five guys and only one person shows up to defend, it's time to go elsewhere. Unless you're one of *those* guys who really likes winning against the computer, over and over again...

huh. Its pretty well distributed on EU PC

Vordae

I think a better solution to the problem would be to grant everyone max CP when they enter PvP zones. This will keep balance between new and veteran players. This would mean they could balance the PvP zones around everyone being at the cap. It also doesn't send the message "hey champions points might have been a bad idea so we are going to disable them." You still earn CP for when you PvE. They would just need to create a new UI section for your PvP Champion Point selections. It would also allow everyone to have a PvP CP set up and a PvE CP set up.

AmalgamousPrime

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The CP boogie monster is back I see.

Myth: I can't be competitive without (X) CP.

Wrong. You can be competitive. CP do not make you. Now, if you have 1 CP and your opponent has 500 you'll get trounced 99% of the time. That, however, doesn't take into account the fact that someone with 500 CP has a ridiculously superior amount of experience in battle. People get competitive mixed up with dominant.

Personally I have about 230 CP. I win some, and I lose some. Rarely do I get my butt handed to me except in 1 on 1 situations, but as a Magicka Templar I'm not built for 1 on 1s.

That said, I personally find it rewarding when I take down a higher level player. I like the disparity and if I've earned my stripes this far getting beat on by better players you better believe I'm gonna enjoy frying the newbies.

It's not a myth. CP gives compounding offensive and defensive bonuses as well as an increase to resources. A player with 501 CP not only hits harder and mitigates more damage than players not at the cap, but they also have more health, magicka, and stamina which contributes further to their damage output, survivability, and evasiveness.

If you actually played against someone at cap on your magicka templar who knows what they are doing (packing immovable pots) I seriously doubt you'd have any amount of success to still think you are "competitive" with only 230 CP.

The-Baconator

AmalgamousPrime wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The CP boogie monster is back I see.

Myth: I can't be competitive without (X) CP.

Wrong. You can be competitive. CP do not make you. Now, if you have 1 CP and your opponent has 500 you'll get trounced 99% of the time. That, however, doesn't take into account the fact that someone with 500 CP has a ridiculously superior amount of experience in battle. People get competitive mixed up with dominant.

Personally I have about 230 CP. I win some, and I lose some. Rarely do I get my butt handed to me except in 1 on 1 situations, but as a Magicka Templar I'm not built for 1 on 1s.

That said, I personally find it rewarding when I take down a higher level player. I like the disparity and if I've earned my stripes this far getting beat on by better players you better believe I'm gonna enjoy frying the newbies.

It's not a myth. CP gives compounding offensive and defensive bonuses as well as an increase to resources. A player with 501 CP not only hits harder and mitigates more damage than players not at the cap, but they also have more health, magicka, and stamina which contributes further to their damage output, survivability, and evasiveness.

If you actually played against someone at cap on your magicka templar who knows what they are doing (packing immovable pots) I seriously doubt you'd have any amount of success to still think you are "competitive" with only 230 CP.

From someone who rekt pc transfer baddies with 300-400 cp and full nirn when I started on console with nothing I would say you really don't need much cp (beyond that which you earn when maxing your character) to actually be "competitive." I have friends who earned well over 250cp leveling their first character v16 post catch-up system, which puts them in a very level playing field with average players while providing a slight advantage to those at or near cap. When weighing the options of equalizing all individuals in cyro in terms of cp and leaving room for people to progress and improve after max rank I think most would choose the latter.

Also on the note of inequalities between players which contribute to the chances each individual have in an engagement, I find the difference for most people is gear\build. A magicka sorc running 7 heavy with bad crafted sets isn't going to perform as well as someone at a similar skill level running 5-1-1 l\m\h, with kags\jul, etc.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

AmalgamousPrime wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The CP boogie monster is back I see.

Myth: I can't be competitive without (X) CP.

Wrong. You can be competitive. CP do not make you. Now, if you have 1 CP and your opponent has 500 you'll get trounced 99% of the time. That, however, doesn't take into account the fact that someone with 500 CP has a ridiculously superior amount of experience in battle. People get competitive mixed up with dominant.

Personally I have about 230 CP. I win some, and I lose some. Rarely do I get my butt handed to me except in 1 on 1 situations, but as a Magicka Templar I'm not built for 1 on 1s.

That said, I personally find it rewarding when I take down a higher level player. I like the disparity and if I've earned my stripes this far getting beat on by better players you better believe I'm gonna enjoy frying the newbies.

It's not a myth. CP gives compounding offensive and defensive bonuses as well as an increase to resources. A player with 501 CP not only hits harder and mitigates more damage than players not at the cap, but they also have more health, magicka, and stamina which contributes further to their damage output, survivability, and evasiveness.

If you actually played against someone at cap on your magicka templar who knows what they are doing (packing immovable pots) I seriously doubt you'd have any amount of success to still think you are "competitive" with only 230 CP.

I'm very competitive. I win some and lose some. I killed a 500 CP guy earlier this week. It took a monumental effort and some good timing but it's possible. If we fight 1 on 1 in a controlled environment, sure, I'd get destroyed 9 out of 10 times. Most fights in Cyrodiil aren't even remotely like that though. Once again, you seem to be confusing competitive with dominant.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Here's the best example I can give. Imagine a 500 CP guy is the bad guy from the South Park World of Warcraft episode. 1 on 1 no one could beat him. But, Cartman and his buddies ranked up to about 200 CP each and the 4 of them together took down the bad guy. That, right there, is competitive.

If you think competitive means you should be able to defeat a max CP player on an equal playing field you're mistaken. They have earned their stripes. You should too.

qrichou

laced wrote: »

I absolutely adore the new NON CP Campaigns. No more getting stomped because people spend a lot more time playing the game. Now it comes down to skill. Ridiculous that I should get punished for having a job and life and only being able to play for 1 or 2 hours a day. I will never step foot into the CP campaigns ever again. Having far too much fun in the non CP ones.

although i dissagree with your agrument , i will shurely try it out on non cp campaigne just to get the feel of it , and check my (skills). .

Skinzz

It depends on the class tbh. A 500cp nb could die to a 250cp sorc. Ita situational such as crits landing, shields down, running out of stamina etc.

AmalgamousPrime

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Here's the best example I can give. Imagine a 500 CP guy is the bad guy from the South Park World of Warcraft episode. 1 on 1 no one could beat him. But, Cartman and his buddies ranked up to about 200 CP each and the 4 of them together took down the bad guy. That, right there, is competitive.

If you think competitive means you should be able to defeat a max CP player on an equal playing field you're mistaken. They have earned their stripes. You should too.

4v1 is not competitive. If it takes 4 players below cap to kill 1 501CP Sorceror (not far from reality) then that is not competitive. I don't think you understand what "competitive" means.

A better example would be steroid use in sports. It's not competitive when players have such an advantage over the others by risking their health to enhance their performance (also not far from reality when it comes to this game)

The CP system is not new, plenty of games have done it and others have entertained the idea of including it. No game (successful enough that I've heard of at least) with a PVP focus has done it yet before ESO because it was a terrible idea that gives an unfair advantage against new players. That's not good for the longevity of the game. If you don't provide a reasonable ceiling for competition, don't expect your game to succeed.

"They earned their stripes. You should too." Yeah or just play another game, which is what most people are choosing to do at an alarming rate. I'm not going through the chore of grinding to 501 CP over the next few months so I can stay competitive in a game I'm not even confident will last through the year in it's current state. I'm not asking for a handout, enlightenment to cap still gives the satisfaction of earning CP by playing and would actually put a new player close to the cap on their first VR16. Which given what a cumbersome, extraneous system veteran ranks are right now would be a good thing. Capped players would get their short time of OPness for a couple weeks after cap increase depending on their activities in the previous seasons. Everyone wins. You might even get clearer player input for class balance with everyone on the same level.

I'm all for taking your licks in PVP, to eventually run with the top dogs. I think WoW did it best, I have fond memories of the journey from being the FNG to gladiator (S1 and S2 boomkin, the struggle was real) when I first hit level cap. You actually felt progression with each purchase using honor or arena marks. The best part was that I got practice while doing it, and it made me appreciate my new gear, and skillset even more. Grinding does not provide this, and given the importance of CP in PVP, the XP provided by ESO PVP is a sick joke.

I want to see this game thrive. I've been hawking it to friends who recently purchased XBOs, but I'm not going to lie to them. When I explain VR and CP they get immediately turned off to the idea of playing and I don't blame them. If the elitests really want their CP advantage to faceroll noobs, all I have to say to them is "enjoy your crown, king nothing". The current system doesn't work and if positive change doesn't come through, this game wont make it for too long after Dark Brotherhood.

AmalgamousPrime

xskinzcity wrote: »

It depends on the class tbh. A 500cp nb could die to a 250cp sorc. Ita situational such as crits landing, shields down, running out of stamina etc.

Class balance isn't very good right now, magicka sorcerors have a very powerful kit and shield mechanics let them ignore the same gear parameters the other classes abide by. Their abilities have very high base damage, and they dont need Impen for PVP, freeing up traits for more regen which is also not as intensive due to their massively offensive presence. Glass cannons without the glass.

Docmandu

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

The CP boogie monster is back I see.

Myth: I can't be competitive without (X) CP.

Wrong. You can be competitive. CP do not make you. Now, if you have 1 CP and your opponent has 500 you'll get trounced 99% of the time. That, however, doesn't take into account the fact that someone with 500 CP has a ridiculously superior amount of experience in battle. People get competitive mixed up with dominant.

Personally I have about 230 CP. I win some, and I lose some. Rarely do I get my butt handed to me except in 1 on 1 situations, but as a Magicka Templar I'm not built for 1 on 1s.

That said, I personally find it rewarding when I take down a higher level player. I like the disparity and if I've earned my stripes this far getting beat on by better players you better believe I'm gonna enjoy frying the newbies.

Your logic is b0rken.. that 500 CP guy might never have set foot in Cyrodiil before. Ridiculously superior amount of experience in battle versus PvE mobs won't do you much good in PvP.

Waffennacht

No CP = less viable builds = FOTM only.

Minalan

I'm going to take back what I said about Azura non-CP.

There were people fighting last night for a change, and it was fun. No lag. Great fights. No getting one-shotted by 500 CP people with my 30 CP. Players take visible damage when hit, nobody is immune to dying forever. People weren't AOE det zerging.

It was... Extremely Fun. I'd recommend anyone try it with a low level or low CP alt. Unless you don't like a good 6v6 or 10v10 zero lag brawl with enemies trying to snipe you from the tower battlements.

No. The builds weren't all FOTM, because we're all working on earning CP and alliance rank to eventually roll in the full campaign.

Rva_Kun

QQ moar pls.

Cody

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

Here's the best example I can give. Imagine a 500 CP guy is the bad guy from the South Park World of Warcraft episode. 1 on 1 no one could beat him. But, Cartman and his buddies ranked up to about 200 CP each and the 4 of them together took down the bad guy. That, right there, is competitive.

If you think competitive means you should be able to defeat a max CP player on an equal playing field you're mistaken. They have earned their stripes. You should too.

they did not "earn their stripes" in that episode, Cartman's dad had to convince the game devs to give the kids an OP sword to defeat that person:D without that sword they all would have died, and would have had to start it again.

as for players "earning their stripes" i can understand that POV. But CPs do make a big difference; they especially will once the cap goes up.