Solariken's Templar Thought Bubble

Solariken

LAST UPDATED: Dark Brotherhood PTS 2.4.2

Welcome to Solariken’s Templar Thought Bubble. I plan to keep the OP's in this thread up-to-date with my feedback on all things Templar, such that I can bookmark and necro it whenever I need to.

Foreword:

I am a respec-o-holic and I have spent millions of gold respeccing and gearing on a huge variety of both magicka and stamina Templar builds centered around various sets and skills. I have played and extensively battled against all four classes and feel like I have a strong understanding of them all. Stamina Templar is my personal favorite because the “sun-calling spartan of fire and light” flavor mixed with the fast-paced, weapon-centric combat playstyle which resonates most with me. I seek only balance for the class and NOT overpowered status, as I know more class balance equals more fun for all. I am a strong believer that all classes need weaknesses to balance out their strengths.

My discussion is continued below. Thanks for reading, and I welcome constructive feedback and criticisms.

Solariken

First, let me highlight my greatest wish for the class:

1. Minor Expedition (+10% movement) buff granted at all times while an Aedric Spear ability is slotted. [add to Balanced Warrior?]

This buff would fit nicely into the "crusader of light" persona, and would go a long way toward relieving serious mobility woes for both flavors of Templar. It would be a very mild counter to Sorcerers and Nightblades running around with Major Evasion in addition to their powerful escapes. It has also become more important to add this in response to strong emphasis on mobility in PvE encounters. Mobility is king in this game, and Templars need a little, even if it’s still less than all the other classes get.

Solariken

ACTIVE ABILITIES

Radial Sweep [ULTIMATE]
This ultimate could use a radius increase to 8m to address reliability issues with it connecting to the target. Crescent Sweep should also grant Minor Berserk (+8% damage) for the duration to make it more viable.

Focused Charge is functioning much better than it used to, which I'm happy about. I would love a stamina morph or at least a greatly reduced cost such that it is viable for stamina Templars.

Sun Shield (and morphs) is still not very viable relative to other shield options. I feel that if this ability (and the others that are % of health) were exempt from the Battle Spirit nerf it would be more balanced. Blazing Shield (or the base skill) needs a slight cost reduction.

Eclipse is still too punitive to the Templar with very little reward for using (even strategically). The hard counter is supposed to be purge/cleanse, not break-free. I don't have an objection to allowing the enemy break free IF they receive additional punishment for doing so, such as a hefty damage increase from the explosion or a debuff like Minor Maim for 4-8 seconds. I do still wish this skill would have become a self-targeting ability, such as a suggestion I made recently:

Proposed change to the base skill:

Eclipse
Surround yourself with four lightless spheres that intercept any harmful projectiles for 4 seconds. Each projectile intercepted causes a sphere to explode, dealing X Magic damage to nearby enemies. (8m range)

Proposed morphs:

Total Dark (perhaps rename to Unyielding Light)
Surround yourself with four lightless spheres that intercept any harmful projectiles for 4 seconds. Each projectile intercepted causes a sphere to explode, dealing X Magic damage to nearby enemies and healing nearby allies for X.

Unstable Core
Surround yourself with four lightless spheres that intercept any harmful projectiles for 4 seconds and grants Major Evasion (20% dodge chance) for 4 seconds. Each projectile intercepted causes a sphere to explode, dealing X Magic damage to nearby enemies.

Additional thoughts:
This suggestion gives Templars a defensive ability that is analogous to Reflective Scale but fits more with the Templar niche. It addresses some Templar survivability problems and adds some needed utility (if you troll my thread with BoL hate I will ram my javelin right up your [snip]). Total Dark might be attractive for PvE/PvP healers or tanks, while Unstable Core might be attractive to stamplars and magicka jabplars.

Backlash should allow the casting Templar to maintain visibility of stealthed/invisible targets while the effect is active. I think this addition is very reasonable and makes sense considering the target is bathed in penetrating light. Backlash is a very short-duration ability, but this may give some incentive to using the ability.

Healing Ritual (and morphs) is still in bad shape. To incentivize using a heal with a cast time, would you consider adding a small, short-duration HoT (~25% of initial heal, ~5 seconds) to all morphs? This would at least make it synergize better with other healing abilities and become a viable situational alternative to Healing Springs.

Radiant/Restoring Aura is a really, really bad skill due to potion conflict. Repentance is a really, really great skill. I'd like the see the Major Regen buffs removed from the Radiant morph, and I'd like to offer a suggestion for this ability:

Restoring Aura
While slotted, you gain Minor Fortitude, Minor Endurance, and Minor Intellect, increasing Health, Stamina, and Magicka Regeneration by 10%. Activate to share your blessings with nearby group members, granting Major Fortitude, Major Endurance, and Major Intellect (+20% to all regen) for 15 seconds.

Radiant Aura
While slotted, you gain Minor Fortitude, Minor Endurance, and Minor Intellect, increasing Health, Stamina, and Magicka Regeneration by 10%. Activate to become filled with righteous wrath, granting Major Sorcery (+20% spell damage) and Major Brutality (+20% weapon damage) for X seconds.

Repentance remains unchanged.

This suggestion gives three really great options for the skill that the Templar can choose from depending on his/her style of play. This also gives in-class alternatives to Entropy and Momentum, which opens up many more build options. You know how much we players love our build options!

Rushed Ceremony
My personal opinion is that the burst-heal capability of this skill is too strong, especially while buffed. I would like to see ~25% of this healing taken away from the initial burst and placed into a 5 second heal-over-time which is refreshed by (but not stackable with) another cast of Rushed Ceremony. I generally dislike the idea of someone being burst-healed from near 0 HP all the way to full HP in an instant with one button (for the record I also very much dislike burst damage from full HP to dead in the same manner).

Rite of Passage [ULTIMATE]
This ultimate is decent for PvE I guess, but I would like to see a little re-imagining of this ultimate to make it more mobile. Being rooted in place is not fun or helpful in PvP. I like the idea of a healing ultimate but this could be so much better. I will update this section when I think up a viable alternative.

Solariken

PASSIVE ABILITIES

Philosophically speaking, I believe class passive abilities should be very meaningful and each one should be instrumental in creating class identity and bolstering the intended strength of the class. Class passives should not be used to simply increase the length or potency of active skills - this is superficial and not interesting. [Example of an amazing passive: Piercing Spear. Example of a terrible passive: Enduring Rays.] Here are my thoughts/suggestions regarding Templar passives:

Piercing Spear
In addition to current effects, increases the damage of Aedric Spear abilities against enemies with a damage shield by 5/10%. [There aren't any hard counters to damage shields within any skill trees at all yet]

Burning Light
This is one of the most iconic and fun elements of the offensive Templar in ESO. It's a really solid passive, but I think it could be better and more organic with a broader scope.

Currently, it has a 25% chance to deal extra damage with Aedric Spear abilities that scales with both stamina and magicka builds.

I have been thinking about how awesome it would be to split it into two pieces like the Sorcerer Implosion passive and allow one piece a % chance to proc on ANY magic damage you deal and the other piece a % chance to proc on ANY physical damage you deal. I realize the % chance and damage amounts may need tweaked as well as the damage of some Dawn's Wrath abilities. So basically the tooltip would look something like this:

Causing any Magic Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Magic Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

Causing any Physical Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Physical Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

This change would allow the Templar flavor to expand into weapon and guild skill lines. If ZOS insists on holding tight to a rigid class system, this is the type of change that would make the Templar class feel more cohesive and apply its flavor more broadly.

I would also really love an animation to message when it procs. A little burst of yellow flame would add a lot of fun and flavor to Templar combat.

Balanced Warrior
In addition to current effects, provides Minor Expedition (+10% movement speed) at all times while Aedric Spear ability slotted.

Enduring Rays
This is currently as unimaginative and uninteresting as it could possibly be. Rename to Blinding Flashes. Minor Evasion (+5% dodge chance?) buff granted for 2/4 seconds after blocking or dodging any single target enemy attack. This would finally give PvP Stamplars something beneficial in the Dawn's Wrath tree and it would be great for magplars too. This buff would also be completely unique to Templars, and would in a small way make up for the fact that Templars otherwise have to soak all of the damage thrown at them, whereas other classes have pretty reliable ways to escape damage. When we lost the old Blinding Flashes, we became sitting ducks - dodge chance is paramount for survivability. I wish for this change in conjunction with my Rushed Ceremony suggestion.

Light Weaver
This is the worst class passive in the game in my opinion, consider changing to the following: Healing yourself while below 50% health restores X magicka and Y stamina. This effect has a cooldown of Z seconds. [X/Y/Z is obviously determined/balanced by ZOS, and I feel that the stamina return should be slightly greater as Stamplars struggle the most with resources.]

Master Ritualist
[This does not currently directly benefit the Templar at all] In addition to current effects, increases weapon attack speed by 5/10%. [same basic effect as the weighted weapon trait prior to Dark Brotherhood]

Solariken

@Joy_Division, @Zheg, @Alcast, @Cinbri, @AkfNinja, @tinythinker, @Nifty2g, @timidobserver, @bikerangelo, @blabafat, @CP5, @AOECAPS, @Sallington, @dodgehopper_ESO

I would love to hear your thoughts on my suggestions and overall philosophy if you have some free time (especially the section on passives). I apologize if I missed any of you crusading Templar brothers and sisters, I tagged everyone I could think of offhand that goes to battle for the class on the forums.

@ZOS_KNowak @Wrobel

Baconlad

Like the idea for restoring aura, fixes biggest issue I have with templar. Maybe split the two into a stamina return morph with major brute, and magicka return morph with spell power. Magicka return costs stamina, stamina return morph costs magicka...

Sunah

These all seem like really good points but it seems like you are only thinking about the PvP aspect of the game. Unless that was the point... then disregard this post.

Solariken

Sunah wrote: »

These all seem like really good points but it seems like you are only thinking about the PvP aspect of the game. Unless that was the point... then disregard this post.

Yes @Sunah, all of my Templar feedback is decidedly PvP-oriented. I play PvE too and enjoy it, but I don't have many big complaints about Templars with regard to PvE. If I'm honest though, PvE class balance just isn't a big issue unless it results in class X not being accepted into groups because it under-performs so terribly (kind of like Templars used to be with DPS...).

But I play this game specifically for PvP. Templars are fun to play in PvP, definitely, but the toolkit is just not where it needs to be if Templars are to compete at the highest levels.

Sunah

Solariken wrote: »

Yes @Sunah, all of my Templar feedback is decidedly PvP-oriented. I play PvE too and enjoy it, but I don't have many big complaints about Templars with regard to PvE. If I'm honest though, PvE class balance just isn't a big issue unless it results in class X not being accepted into groups because it under-performs so terribly (kind of like Templars used to be with DPS...).

But I play this game specifically for PvP. Templars are fun to play in PvP, definitely, but the toolkit is just not where it needs to be if Templars are to compete at the highest levels.

Ahh ok, makes sense then haha. I honestly think they need to separate skills from PvP and PvE.... It should be easy for them since you have to log into a completely different zone just to PvP... Have it so when you are in Cyrodiil, your skills and gear will do X and while in Tamerial the same skills will do Y. This way when they change a skill to balance it in PvP it will have ZERO effect on PvE. Same with PvE to PvP.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Having spent probably a million gold on wacky Templar respecs, all I can say is I feel your pain!

Oddly I use literally none of those skills you put in the spoiler section, rather these days I'm sticking to BoL, RO and Reflecting Light (the triple fireball).

I've overcome the mobility issues with invisibility + speed potions. Works well. Really not sure why this isn't ridiculously popular.

Also, for the PVE guy, as long as you're not trying to actively hurt your potential, there isn't a reasonable PVP build that wouldn't work in PVE. However, many great PVE builds are useless when fighting real people.

Solariken

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I've overcome the mobility issues with invisibility + speed potions. Works well. Really not sure why this isn't ridiculously popular.

Also, for the PVE guy, as long as you're not trying to actively hurt your potential, there isn't a reasonable PVP build that wouldn't work in PVE. However, many great PVE builds are useless when fighting real people.

Regarding your comment on invisibility+speed pots, I definitely use them, but only as a last resort escape. They are super impractical for basic mobility like moving through breaches and repositioning for LoS.

Your point on builds is spot on. All class balancing should really be done with consideration to PvP first. Anything I offer in my posts will always be considered under PvP implications.

dodgehopper_ESO

Solariken wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

I've overcome the mobility issues with invisibility + speed potions. Works well. Really not sure why this isn't ridiculously popular.

Also, for the PVE guy, as long as you're not trying to actively hurt your potential, there isn't a reasonable PVP build that wouldn't work in PVE. However, many great PVE builds are useless when fighting real people.

Regarding your comment on invisibility+speed pots, I definitely use them, but only as a last resort escape. They are super impractical for basic mobility like moving through breaches and repositioning for LoS.

Your point on builds is spot on. All class balancing should really be done with consideration to PvP first. Anything I offer in my posts will always be considered under PvP implications.

I definitely use them. I'm also a big fan of Immovable potions as well.

Mr_Nobody

Templars, please stop asking for fixes, improvements or buffs. There has not been a single forum suggestion that was ever used by zos and implemented. They live in their own world.

Zyle

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Templars, please stop asking for fixes, improvements or buffs. There has not been a single forum suggestion that was ever used by zos and implemented. They live in their own world.

Maybe if we all claim they're game-breaking overpowered they'll buff them

Mr_Nobody

Or try asking in a different way. Like...

1) Every time I use Blazing Shield in PvP against Mobs/Guards, I get 4x increased XP, I think it needs adjustments.
2) The Templar passive X is causing some certain Mobs/Bosses in PvE get 1shot.

PvE is what this game is all about, at least what ZoS cares. So that may be the only way to get some interest into getting a certain ability reworked.

Make sure to leave the suggestions also, because when people told them about NPCs getting inta-killed and/or killing themselves with eclipse on - they nerfed it, twice, most recently - into the ground.

Dkill

Zyle wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Templars, please stop asking for fixes, improvements or buffs. There has not been a single forum suggestion that was ever used by zos and implemented. They live in their own world.

Maybe if we all claim they're game-breaking overpowered they'll buff them

Everything is game braking when thing dont work as intended, for example Toppling charge. Exelent gap closer that being bugged for a long time.

WillhelmBlack

Dkill wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Templars, please stop asking for fixes, improvements or buffs. There has not been a single forum suggestion that was ever used by zos and implemented. They live in their own world.

Maybe if we all claim they're game-breaking overpowered they'll buff them

Everything is game braking when thing dont work as intended, for example Toppling charge. Exelent gap closer that being bugged for a long time.

Dkill wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Templars, please stop asking for fixes, improvements or buffs. There has not been a single forum suggestion that was ever used by zos and implemented. They live in their own world.

Maybe if we all claim they're game-breaking overpowered they'll buff them

Everything is game braking when thing dont work as intended, for example Toppling charge. Exelent gap closer that being bugged for a long time.

In the next patch I like how they upped the damage of Lotus Fan, still allow it to have no minimum distance and they still haven't fixed or replaced the Templar's gap closer. They don't want to fix it, it's too time consuming for them.

Edit: Sorry would like to add to this, I can't believe they actually release DLC before fixing a major class skill.

Dkill

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Templars, please stop asking for fixes, improvements or buffs. There has not been a single forum suggestion that was ever used by zos and implemented. They live in their own world.

Maybe if we all claim they're game-breaking overpowered they'll buff them

Everything is game braking when thing dont work as intended, for example Toppling charge. Exelent gap closer that being bugged for a long time.

Dkill wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Templars, please stop asking for fixes, improvements or buffs. There has not been a single forum suggestion that was ever used by zos and implemented. They live in their own world.

Maybe if we all claim they're game-breaking overpowered they'll buff them

Everything is game braking when thing dont work as intended, for example Toppling charge. Exelent gap closer that being bugged for a long time.

In the next patch I like how they upped the damage of Lotus Fan, still allow it to have no minimum distance and they still haven't fixed or replaced the Templar's gap closer. They don't want to fix it, it's too time consuming for them.

Edit: Sorry would like to add to this, I can't believe they actually release DLC before fixing a major class skill.

releasing DLC prior to fixing game braking Bugged are the ZOS style

Solariken

Necrobump!

Solariken

Burning Light is one of the most iconic and fun elements of the offensive Templar in ESO. It's a really solid passive, but I think it could be better and more organic with a broader scope.

Currently, it has a 25% chance to deal extra damage with Aedric Spear abilities that scales with both stamina and magicka builds.

I have been thinking about how awesome it would be to split it into two pieces like the Sorcerer Implosion passive and allow one piece a % chance to proc on ANY magic damage you deal and the other piece a % chance to proc on ANY physical damage you deal. I realize the % chance and damage amounts may need tweaked as well as the damage of some Dawn's Wrath abilities. So basically the tooltip would look something like this:

Causing any Magic Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Magic Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

Causing any Physical Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Physical Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

This change would allow the Templar flavor to expand into weapon and guild skill lines. If ZOS insists on holding tight to a rigid class system, this is the type of change that would make the Templar class feel more cohesive and apply its flavor more broadly. Thanks for reading!

susmitds

Solariken wrote: »

Burning Light is one of the most iconic and fun elements of the offensive Templar in ESO. It's a really solid passive, but I think it could be better and more organic with a broader scope.

Currently, it has a 25% chance to deal extra damage with Aedric Spear abilities that scales with both stamina and magicka builds.

I have been thinking about how awesome it would be to split it into two pieces like the Sorcerer Implosion passive and allow one piece a % chance to proc on ANY magic damage you deal and the other piece a % chance to proc on ANY physical damage you deal. I realize the % chance and damage amounts may need tweaked as well as the damage of some Dawn's Wrath abilities. So basically the tooltip would look something like this:

Causing any Magic Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Magic Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

Causing any Physical Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Physical Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

This change would allow the Templar flavor to expand into weapon and guild skill lines. If ZOS insists on holding tight to a rigid class system, this is the type of change that would make the Templar class feel more cohesive and apply its flavor more broadly. Thanks for reading!

Then why only Templars? All classes have something similar.

Solariken

susmitds wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Burning Light is one of the most iconic and fun elements of the offensive Templar in ESO. It's a really solid passive, but I think it could be better and more organic with a broader scope.

Currently, it has a 25% chance to deal extra damage with Aedric Spear abilities that scales with both stamina and magicka builds.

I have been thinking about how awesome it would be to split it into two pieces like the Sorcerer Implosion passive and allow one piece a % chance to proc on ANY magic damage you deal and the other piece a % chance to proc on ANY physical damage you deal. I realize the % chance and damage amounts may need tweaked as well as the damage of some Dawn's Wrath abilities. So basically the tooltip would look something like this:

Causing any Magic Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Magic Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

Causing any Physical Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Physical Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

This change would allow the Templar flavor to expand into weapon and guild skill lines. If ZOS insists on holding tight to a rigid class system, this is the type of change that would make the Templar class feel more cohesive and apply its flavor more broadly. Thanks for reading!

Then why only Templars? All classes have something similar.

I'm not sure what you mean @susmitds - other classes have different mechanics. Burning Light is unique to Templars, just like Implosion is unique to Sorcerers.

susmitds

Solariken wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Burning Light is one of the most iconic and fun elements of the offensive Templar in ESO. It's a really solid passive, but I think it could be better and more organic with a broader scope.

Currently, it has a 25% chance to deal extra damage with Aedric Spear abilities that scales with both stamina and magicka builds.

I have been thinking about how awesome it would be to split it into two pieces like the Sorcerer Implosion passive and allow one piece a % chance to proc on ANY magic damage you deal and the other piece a % chance to proc on ANY physical damage you deal. I realize the % chance and damage amounts may need tweaked as well as the damage of some Dawn's Wrath abilities. So basically the tooltip would look something like this:

Causing any Magic Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Magic Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

Causing any Physical Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Physical Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

This change would allow the Templar flavor to expand into weapon and guild skill lines. If ZOS insists on holding tight to a rigid class system, this is the type of change that would make the Templar class feel more cohesive and apply its flavor more broadly. Thanks for reading!

Then why only Templars? All classes have something similar.

I'm not sure what you mean @susmitds - other classes have different mechanics. Burning Light is unique to Templars, just like Implosion is unique to Sorcerers.

I mean, say, Shadow Barrier of the Nightblades which require Shadow skills activation. By the same logic then it would also work all skills.

Solariken

susmitds wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Burning Light is one of the most iconic and fun elements of the offensive Templar in ESO. It's a really solid passive, but I think it could be better and more organic with a broader scope.

Currently, it has a 25% chance to deal extra damage with Aedric Spear abilities that scales with both stamina and magicka builds.

I have been thinking about how awesome it would be to split it into two pieces like the Sorcerer Implosion passive and allow one piece a % chance to proc on ANY magic damage you deal and the other piece a % chance to proc on ANY physical damage you deal. I realize the % chance and damage amounts may need tweaked as well as the damage of some Dawn's Wrath abilities. So basically the tooltip would look something like this:

Causing any Magic Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Magic Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

Causing any Physical Damage has an X% chance to deal an additional Y Physical Damage. This effect has a Z second cooldown.

This change would allow the Templar flavor to expand into weapon and guild skill lines. If ZOS insists on holding tight to a rigid class system, this is the type of change that would make the Templar class feel more cohesive and apply its flavor more broadly. Thanks for reading!

Then why only Templars? All classes have something similar.

I'm not sure what you mean @susmitds - other classes have different mechanics. Burning Light is unique to Templars, just like Implosion is unique to Sorcerers.

I mean, say, Shadow Barrier of the Nightblades which require Shadow skills activation. By the same logic then it would also work all skills.

Well I would consider that apples and oranges, but it could be fun to expand Shadow Barrier to all single target melee attacks - however I think that could warrant nerfing the buff from Major Ward/Resolve to Minor or smaller.