How does pvp here compare to WoW BGs?

Jaemeson_Foster

Loved wow, hated the $15 a month for no content. Now I'm here and I love it (elder scrolls has always been a favorite of mine). One question though: how does Cyrodiil pvp comper to WoW BGs? Please please please don't turn this into a flame war, just want an honest comparison of the two without it devolving into arguing.

Solariken

ESO's combat is FAR better than WoW - it's among the best combat systems available.

The cons are lots of load screens and horse riding and often MASSIVE amounts of lag. The PvP objectives are also a little weak and shallow in my opinion.

Millerman34n

Wow does not lag eso does!

Millerman34n

Wow has class balance

Millerman34n

Eso has the best combat system ever so I stick around.

Solariken

Millerman34n wrote: »

Wow has class balance

Yeah, explicit class balance sucks balls in ESO, but luckily there are out-of-class skill options to mitigate this problem.

Jaemeson_Foster

Wow I just got out of my first battle in Cyrodiil..

I'm never paying $15 a month for wow pvp again xD

Mumyo

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

Loved wow, hated the $15 a month for no content. Now I'm here and I love it (elder scrolls has always been a favorite of mine). One question though: how does Cyrodiil pvp comper to WoW BGs? Please please please don't turn this into a flame war, just want an honest comparison of the two without it devolving into arguing.

U love average 800 latency on primetime? Enjoy...

Eshelmen

WOW has more variety in the PVP world, ESO does not have so much.

WOW has BGs, duels anywhere outside cities, 2vs2s 3v3s and other ones as well. ESO has none of those.

But for zerg fights, strategy and skill required? ESO all day.
I haven't played WoW since cata but I know it was all about gear first THEN skill.

It would be nice to queue up for some 3s in ESO though. I do realize duels happen all day, especially in IC. But it's just not the same. Having more options wouldn't hurt.

An arena system with its own rewards in place would be cool.

But with the right group/guild , PVP in Cyrodiil is an absolute blast.

AmalgamousPrime

Coming from WoW, you are going to find a serious lack of reason to any major decisions about the core mechanics in this games PVP. When this first dropped on console it was very different from WoW, but having 4 classes you can play however you want (either magicka or stamina based) really gave this game a certain charm that most MMO's don't have. PVP before Imperial City was one of the most fun experiences I've had on Xbox in a long time. Had you asked this question then, I couldn't have recommended ESO more.

Imperial City was the PVP DLC, new PVP area with some PVE things to do. It was more like open world in WoW. Ironically the patch changes that came with this DLC ruined PVP in my opinion. Before IC, some moves hit noticeably harder than others, but there was a risk using them. Pretty much every move was viable though, leading to lots of variety in PVP. Apparently the low TTK was an issue, so they increased the damage reduction in PVP to 50%. Those heavy hitting moves now became the staple, and most other abilities weren't worth using anymore as Templars have an instant cast, multi-target full heal. Did I mention this game doesn't have cooldowns? The only time kills usually happen is when someone (or the whole group) uses an ultimate. In my opinion, PVP in WoW are ESO are the best and worst examples in the genre, respectively.

Sunah

People will tell you different things, most of the post so far will say its the "best experience" ever. I will give my simple reasoning to why I think its the "worst".

1st off the game, on console, is buggy. You see people getting stuck in animations (Templar charge) and 90% of people are in perma stealth just spamming ambush over and over and over. And MULTPLE people are doing it too, so its basically a perma stun to death unless you are a skilled player and can expect it coming.

Besides that, most of the people just zerg *** down. Now when 2 zergs clash it gets epic but that's when the laggfest begins. Now when the lag begins one second you are running for your life, the next second your health is gone but you are still alive and running so it seems like you just barely made it, then when you get far enough from the lag you just drop haha...

Now to answer the OPs question... Its nothing like WoWs BGs. While yes it has an epic sieging mechanic and keep take overs. Its just not as balanced and engaging as WoW. ESO just has 1 giant open word battle ground and a smaller 1 in the IC sewers which is meh. WoW as you know has like 8(stopped playing during panda) or so different battleground maps all with different objectives and its not open world. WoW also has contested areas in their open world where PvP is enabled in most servers. So you can be minding your own business as a level 20ish and BOOM HEADSHOT a damn level 90 rogue comes out of stealth and puts it up your butt so hard. Now not only that, hes camping your body like a jackass and putting it in your butt ever time you rez haha...

Wall of text I know, short verson to ops questions. Doesn't compare at all.

Eshelmen

Sunah wrote: »

People will tell you different things, most of the post so far will say its the "best experience" ever. I will give my simple reasoning to why I think its the "worst".

1st off the game, on console, is buggy. You see people getting stuck in animations (Templar charge) and 90% of people are in perma stealth just spamming ambush over and over and over. And MULTPLE people are doing it too, so its basically a perma stun to death unless you are a skilled player and can expect it coming.

Besides that, most of the people just zerg *** down. Now when 2 zergs clash it gets epic but that's when the laggfest begins. Now when the lag begins one second you are running for your life, the next second your health is gone but you are still alive and running so it seems like you just barely made it, then when you get far enough from the lag you just drop haha...

Now to answer the OPs question... Its nothing like WoWs BGs. While yes it has an epic sieging mechanic and keep take overs. Its just not as balanced and engaging as WoW. ESO just has 1 giant open word battle ground and a smaller 1 in the IC sewers which is meh. WoW as you know has like 8(stopped playing during panda) or so different battleground maps all with different objectives and its not open world. WoW also has contested areas in their open world where PvP is enabled in most servers. So you can be minding your own business as a level 20ish and BOOM HEADSHOT a damn level 90 rogue comes out of stealth and puts it up your butt so hard. Now not only that, hes camping your body like a jackass and putting it in your butt ever time you rez haha...

Wall of text I know, short verson to ops questions. Doesn't compare at all.

However, unless things have changed, every one of WoWs pvp modes are timed. Whether it be time, all enemies are destroyed or objective is completed, it all eventually ends and you have to requeue to do it again. In ESO, the fight always continues..until you either get kicked for being idle too long OR campaign ends, but you don't get booted, the scores just reset.

This IMO is a huge bonus to ESO.

Sunah

Eshelmen wrote: »

However, unless things have changed, every one of WoWs pvp modes are timed. Whether it be time, all enemies are destroyed or objective is completed, it all eventually ends and you have to requeue to do it again. In ESO, the fight always continues..until you either get kicked for being idle too long OR campaign ends, but you don't get booted, the scores just reset.

This IMO is a huge bonus to ESO.

Things are timed because of the constant complaining of everyone back in the days. We use to have hour long AV fights. One time I played for 7 hours in an AV, logged off and went to sleep only to log back in to the SAME one. I believe that fight lasted almost 3 days. But because of this people who only had time for like an hour or 2 of game time were crying because they never got to finish it.

Now the game ENCOURAGES you to finish runs and BGs quicker.. They give achievement's for it... Back to AV, now when you run an AV you can literally finish a WHOLE run in less than 10 mins easy... I think the achievement was 6 mins? But that means no objectives are being done(objectives are crazy fun)... less honor is farmed.... less fun.... more queue times.

SOooooooo... in the end its US the people who cried and cried and criedddd to blizzard to do something.. and they did... And of course many people were happy about he change because the majority of the gamers were casual gamers who were only on for a few hours a day.

Eshelmen

Sunah wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

However, unless things have changed, every one of WoWs pvp modes are timed. Whether it be time, all enemies are destroyed or objective is completed, it all eventually ends and you have to requeue to do it again. In ESO, the fight always continues..until you either get kicked for being idle too long OR campaign ends, but you don't get booted, the scores just reset.

This IMO is a huge bonus to ESO.

Things are timed because of the constant complaining of everyone back in the days. We use to have hour long AV fights. One time I played for 7 hours in an AV, logged off and went to sleep only to log back in to the SAME one. I believe that fight lasted almost 3 days. But because of this people who only had time for like an hour or 2 of game time were crying because they never got to finish it.

Now the game ENCOURAGES you to finish runs and BGs quicker.. They give achievement's for it... Back to AV, now when you run an AV you can literally finish a WHOLE run in less than 10 mins easy... I think the achievement was 6 mins? But that means no objectives are being done(objectives are crazy fun)... less honor is farmed.... less fun.... more queue times.

SOooooooo... in the end its US the people who cried and cried and criedddd to blizzard to do something.. and they did... And of course many people were happy about he change because the majority of the gamers were casual gamers who were only on for a few hours a day.

I know the reasons why. I played in beta and continued through till Cata.I remember these changes and I couldn't be more furious at the time when it happened. I stopped about 3 weeks before Panda came out. I'm just saying without reasons of why they are the way they are, for a more convenient and consistent experience in PVP, ESO wins.

Kupoking

Somehow miss bg in a wierd way

Sunah

houimetub17_ESO wrote: »

Somehow miss bg in a wierd way

Yeah man, stealing that flag while 3 people are guarding it in WSG, then running for your life was too damn fun haha. Or in AB while fighting at LM and popping levitate while jumping off the cliff so you can help everyone at middle was crazy fun. Ah...good times.

Jaemeson_Foster

Glad to know I'm not the only one oddly missing wow bgs.

But I don't know if I'm $15 a month missing them xD

MrGigglypants

It doesn't

phillyboy7897

It's better like u noticed man, its more fun and fast paced, when you kill a bunch of people and it was a really hard fight it's awesome - you can find opportunities for those kind of fights 24/7. You'll just have to be smart to avoid lag and that's a hassle. A big thing for me is the graphics are cool, WoW graphics are really lame.

These forums are toxic b/c the PvP community feels neglected after lag issues not being addressed for 2+ years, especially those on this forum since many posts are seen by ZoS with no fix. But the game is really fun, and if they just fixed the lag and we could have 50v50 fights with no lag this game would blow away anything I've ever played.

Moglijuana

I played wow for 8 years (I even bought my first car with the money from selling my account lol) and mostly played arenas. ESO's combat system is MUCH better. Even with all the class balancing issues, the lag, the loading screens and horse simulator this PvP is the best out atm. It's only going to get better...Soon™

Guppet

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

Loved wow, hated the $15 a month for no content. Now I'm here and I love it (elder scrolls has always been a favorite of mine). One question though: how does Cyrodiil pvp comper to WoW BGs? Please please please don't turn this into a flame war, just want an honest comparison of the two without it devolving into arguing.

No one else has mentioned it yet, but they are adding structured PVP to ESO too. It could be like battlegrounds or arenas, I'm hoping it's like the warzones from SWTOR, they are like battlegrounds but a bit more tactical.

Alcast

lag

Eshelmen

Guppet wrote: »

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

Loved wow, hated the $15 a month for no content. Now I'm here and I love it (elder scrolls has always been a favorite of mine). One question though: how does Cyrodiil pvp comper to WoW BGs? Please please please don't turn this into a flame war, just want an honest comparison of the two without it devolving into arguing.

No one else has mentioned it yet, but they are adding structured PVP to ESO too. It could be like battlegrounds or arenas, I'm hoping it's like the warzones from SWTOR, they are like battlegrounds but a bit more tactical.

You mean the talk of adding arenas like 3 v 3?

Jaemeson_Foster

My final point in this: I just logged into my "Veteran account" in WoW (the free level 20 account) and played one of my old level 20s in some bgs. Wow, that game is just not as much fun as it used to be especially after playing in Cyrodiil. I kept left clicking to bring my weapon up xD I think this game is really solidified as my replacement for wow

Guppet

Eshelmen wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Jaemeson_Foster wrote: »

Loved wow, hated the $15 a month for no content. Now I'm here and I love it (elder scrolls has always been a favorite of mine). One question though: how does Cyrodiil pvp comper to WoW BGs? Please please please don't turn this into a flame war, just want an honest comparison of the two without it devolving into arguing.

No one else has mentioned it yet, but they are adding structured PVP to ESO too. It could be like battlegrounds or arenas, I'm hoping it's like the warzones from SWTOR, they are like battlegrounds but a bit more tactical.

You mean the talk of adding arenas like 3 v 3?

The only thing they have confirmed so far, is small scale and structured. So could be BG's or arena. In the past they ran 3 team arena's, so it could be that 3v3v3. Looked great fun.

Soris

Without good class balance, arenas will not be good.

Shogunami

ESO combat mechanics are in my opinion vastly superior to those of WoW, however.. The actual PvP situations and locations are in general vastly worse. Imperial City Sewers being the only exception as it is a great area to do PvP in, but really it lacks any kind of incentive/meaning/purpose whatsoever aside from bashing enemies in the face.

Cyrodiil is a failure of epic proportions, and while it has some good things going it's generally broken and unbalanced. The concept of Cyrodiil is awesome, a huuuge (!) area where you can do PvP and battle for keeps and castles, but the execution of this concept is just bad. I understand what they were going for, they just didn't make it more than halfway there. As it is right now I only PvP in sewers, either doing duels with friends and randoms, or doing small group PvP wherever it's offered. Cyrodiil however.. just isn't worth the time. Zergs own the war, all day every day.
A keep that can be captured in a few mintutes can't possibly be considered a keep. More like a .. camp.
(Anyone else remember Castle Sieges from Lineage 2? Now THAT was some large scale PvP)

For a game that boasted end game PvP, it's really incredibly lackluster. We need "battlegrounds" (I couldn't care one bit for Arenas) or "scenarios", like smaller versions of Cyrodiil fights but with an even number of players on both/all three teams and with a ranking system. With teamplay mechanics other than just "kill these guys, take that flag, plzkthx, ps: don't die".
Warhammer Online had GREAT 1v1v1 team PvP that I've yet so see rivaled - so it's definitely not undoable.

But then again, this is just how I feel about PvP in ESO at the moment.
PvP is unbelievably fun when you get those good fights, the best PvP experiences I've had. They're just a tad rare. But totally worth the wait

//Oldskool avid MMO-PvPer

eliisra

ESO combat + gameplay is so much better. It's the complete opposite of all these cartoonish WoW clones with elf's bunnyjumping around in tropical bikinis mashing ranged target macros

But WoW still has better PvP content, competition and progression.They also have a zerg v.s zerg v.s lag map simliar to Cyrodiil/IC. Than there's arenas with leaderboards, tournaments and tiers for the hardcore guys and battlegrounds for more casual instanced PvP.

Like if you want to play an MMORPG exclusively for PvP, I think WoW has more to offer. You end up really bored in ESO, due to limited PvP content and progression. But if you're a PvX player, only PvP'ing for fun a few times a week, I think ESO is a better choice.

Guppet

I'm imagining AB with 4 capture points and 3 sides. Would be amazing and chaotic. I'm really hoping for 3 sided battlegrounds.

Toc de Malsvi

AmalgamousPrime wrote: »

Coming from WoW, you are going to find a serious lack of reason to any major decisions about the core mechanics in this games PVP. When this first dropped on console it was very different from WoW, but having 4 classes you can play however you want (either magicka or stamina based) really gave this game a certain charm that most MMO's don't have. PVP before Imperial City was one of the most fun experiences I've had on Xbox in a long time. Had you asked this question then, I couldn't have recommended ESO more.

Imperial City was the PVP DLC, new PVP area with some PVE things to do. It was more like open world in WoW. Ironically the patch changes that came with this DLC ruined PVP in my opinion. Before IC, some moves hit noticeably harder than others, but there was a risk using them. Pretty much every move was viable though, leading to lots of variety in PVP. Apparently the low TTK was an issue, so they increased the damage reduction in PVP to 50%. Those heavy hitting moves now became the staple, and most other abilities weren't worth using anymore as Templars have an instant cast, multi-target full heal. Did I mention this game doesn't have cooldowns? The only time kills usually happen is when someone (or the whole group) uses an ultimate. In my opinion, PVP in WoW are ESO are the best and worst examples in the genre, respectively.

This^

Pre Imperial City I loved pvp on the xbox my brother myself and a couple friends would spend several hours in Cyrodil every night. Since Imperial City launch all have quit except for myself, Cyrodil is actually more laggy than ever and it is hard to find fights outside of zerg balls.

Essentially the changes to damage and healing meant that your options for abilities shrunk drastically as only the most optimal abilities in total burst damage are feasible. TTK has little to no difference from before, you simply see less variety in abilities being used.


I left WoW myself when ESO first dropped on PC, I went back to WoW while I was in Afghanistan as I could not functionally play ESO on my laptop there. I love the idea of no actual class roles in ESO, I love Elder Scroll's art work and how stories tie in to the Elder Scrolls series. I was a bit disappointed with the character construction options, I expected more from an Elder Scrolls game.

ESO pvp is a whole monster in and of itself that took some getting used to. I love being able to battle all night if I want to, but at the same time I miss seeing score screens, and recount(on xbox) so that I could monitor and improve my performance better. WoW has more options for PVP and I think Blizzard cares a bit more about having a well rounded balanced game, even though if you've played long enough you know it is never really balanced but shifts back and forth constantly. ESO has always seemed to care more about the artwork and effects side of things more than balance, they even stated they just wanted to make some cool abilities that were fun to play with.

All said and done I still will play ESO over WoW as I enjoy the combat engine and artwork more, however I do miss WoW BG's and Arena's.

exeeter702

Eso's combat control and mechanics lends itself beautifully to technical skill and is rewarding. Unfortunately, the systems and arenas in place to facilitate engaging in actual pvp in this game are not.

There is nothing odd about missing wows structured battle ground style pvp. Despite it being the cool thing to belittle wow whenever possible on the interwebs, bgs were an excellent middle ground were players could actually make significant plays and outplay the opposition, basically have an actual effect on an outcome of a match. All while still being large enough for newer players to jump in have fun and contribute without it become a cluster *** of zerg nonsense (there were exceptions of course).

To the OP, if you truly enjoyed wows bgs, I would be hard pressed to suggest getting into pvp in cyrodill. Look for your engagements in IC if possible, but even that is a crap shoot.

Eso combat is fundementally solid, it rewards technical skill and feels generally tight, but pvp here mostly falls into player sanctioned / organized pvp (awsome and rewarding) or open world siege pvp that nets you terrible fps, network lag and the abilties to throw aoe into a crowd and say your helping.

Wow bgs do not in any way compare to here. Fortunately there are plans to implement battle grounds and organized team arenas in the future so....