Reverse engineering: Weapon Swap

SlayerTheDragon

Weapon swapping is just not as reliable as it should be. I credit this to the design, you have to first swap your weapon, then activate the ability on that bar. This is not optimal when you factor in other influences such as lag, cc and what not. Your ability is completely dependant on the success of the weapon swap.

I would like to see the design changed to activating the ability you want and having the weapon swap as a side effect. One way this can be achieved is by having designated key binds for back-bar abilities.

Knootewoot

Weapon swap is crap. Mostly in the heat of an intense battle it does not work. Mainly due to lag it does not swap. You press again.. it swaps twice. Die to this lag and not swapping, your main weapon (for example dual wield)'s visual sometimes gets the visual of your 2nd weapon (resto staff).

I rather have them look at code for weapon swapping. Why is there a delay in it. It should work just as easy as pressing the forward walk button. It should go instantly. If the animation is the problem, skip it then. Most people do animation cancelling anyway, so sheathing and unsheathing weapon animation (in PvP at least) is least of their problems.

ContraTempo

Knootewoot wrote: »

Weapon swap is crap. Mostly in the heat of an intense battle it does not work. Mainly due to lag it does not swap. You press again.. it swaps twice. Die to this lag and not swapping, your main weapon (for example dual wield)'s visual sometimes gets the visual of your 2nd weapon (resto staff).

I rather have them look at code for weapon swapping. Why is there a delay in it. It should work just as easy as pressing the forward walk button. It should go instantly. If the animation is the problem, skip it then. Most people do animation cancelling anyway, so sheathing and unsheathing weapon animation (in PvP at least) is least of their problems.

In some situations I use it a lot and have not had an issue with how it works, probably because I did not have any expectations that it would work in a particular way. I just pushed the button, learned what it actually did, and fit that into my playing methods. I DON'T use it when I am toe-to-toe with an attacker because it isn't an instant thing and fiddling around with your gear when face to face is a good way to get hammered.

Knootewoot

ContraTempo wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Weapon swap is crap. Mostly in the heat of an intense battle it does not work. Mainly due to lag it does not swap. You press again.. it swaps twice. Die to this lag and not swapping, your main weapon (for example dual wield)'s visual sometimes gets the visual of your 2nd weapon (resto staff).

I rather have them look at code for weapon swapping. Why is there a delay in it. It should work just as easy as pressing the forward walk button. It should go instantly. If the animation is the problem, skip it then. Most people do animation cancelling anyway, so sheathing and unsheathing weapon animation (in PvP at least) is least of their problems.

In some situations I use it a lot and have not had an issue with how it works, probably because I did not have any expectations that it would work in a particular way. I just pushed the button, learned what it actually did, and fit that into my playing methods. I DON'T use it when I am toe-to-toe with an attacker because it isn't an instant thing and fiddling around with your gear when face to face is a good way to get hammered.

True that. But I have one bar for DPS and some utilities (dual wield). But as a magblade the only good, but unreliable heal, I have is healing ward. But I need resto staff for it. So to heal during a fight I need to swap twice. Already I have a damage skill also on resto-bar for when swapping fails.

When I was stamblade it was easy to keep dual wield and have vigor on same bar. But not all builds can do that. Although I only switch to the healbar when only needed, sometimes it's to late because of swap-bug.

I_killed_Vivec

ContraTempo wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

Weapon swap is crap. Mostly in the heat of an intense battle it does not work. Mainly due to lag it does not swap. You press again.. it swaps twice. Die to this lag and not swapping, your main weapon (for example dual wield)'s visual sometimes gets the visual of your 2nd weapon (resto staff).

I rather have them look at code for weapon swapping. Why is there a delay in it. It should work just as easy as pressing the forward walk button. It should go instantly. If the animation is the problem, skip it then. Most people do animation cancelling anyway, so sheathing and unsheathing weapon animation (in PvP at least) is least of their problems.

In some situations I use it a lot and have not had an issue with how it works, probably because I did not have any expectations that it would work in a particular way. I just pushed the button, learned what it actually did, and fit that into my playing methods. I DON'T use it when I am toe-to-toe with an attacker because it isn't an instant thing and fiddling around with your gear when face to face is a good way to get hammered.

My mag DK has a bar for dealing with trash - with no heal on it (apart from Deep Breath).

If I bite off more than I can chew I can switch to "Boss mode" with shields and heal.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

I have a feeling the issues with weapon swap are caused by buffering of abilities. Every other MMO I have played allows you to set your buffer range between 0ms and 500ms. Why is there no option for this in ESO?

magnusthorek

Knootewoot wrote: »

Weapon swap is crap. Mostly in the heat of an intense battle it does not work. Mainly due to lag it does not swap. You press again.. it swaps twice.

This!

GrigorijMalahevich

Reverse engineering - is when you first measure and then destroy something to get it chemical analysis; mechanical properties and geometrical dimensions, what does it have to do with weapon swap? L2P.

P.S. I can agree that it doesn't swap properly in lag battles and when you press it second time it sometimes does double swap, which is really a pain.
P.P.S. on console it would be very nice if I could change the colour of primary bar and secondary bar, so I can always see what bar I have...

TheShadowScout

I'd say, generally weapon swap works as intended (barring the usual iffyness due to lag).

The OP idea of being able to mix skills from different weapons on one skill bar I do not like. Involuntary delay times for weapon swap between skill button press and skill firing off? Not a good thing.
Not to mention, it would require a lot of game code rewriting, meaning a LOT of programmer time investment, for no extra profit for the powers that be... so it almost certainly won't happen.

hrothbern

TheShadowScout wrote: »

I'd say, generally weapon swap works as intended (barring the usual iffyness due to lag).

The OP idea of being able to mix skills from different weapons on one skill bar I do not like. Involuntary delay times for weapon swap between skill button press and skill firing off? Not a good thing.
Not to mention, it would require a lot of game code rewriting, meaning a LOT of programmer time investment, for no extra profit for the powers that be... so it almost certainly won't happen.

I guess as well that OP's suggestion HOW to solve the issue will not really work.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I have a feeling the issues with weapon swap are caused by buffering of abilities. Every other MMO I have played allows you to set your buffer range between 0ms and 500ms. Why is there no option for this in ESO?

I guess also as well that the different sets of buffs of the two bars could be a cause for delay, together with client-sever exchange of info. Perhaps animation of the Weapon swap as well. LAG and latency plays a big role as well.

Valera Progib wrote: »

P.S. I can agree that it doesn't swap properly in lag battles and when you press it second time it sometimes does double swap, which is really a pain.

On PC you can configure your buttons to prevent confusion in what bar you are. One button to go to Bar 1. Another button to go to Bar 2. This allows for double pushing a button when in laggy situations.


But that all does not take away that the time delay and corresponding confusion of the Weapon swap is not as responsive as everybody, including ZOS, would like it to be.
So OP is IMO right by bringing this issue again under our attention !!!

ZOS is for some time already tidying up the Client-Server communication to improve steadily on lagginess.
Perhaps they did already take a look on this aspect... Perhaps it is still to be done.

mistermutiny89

Weapon swap for an Australian Xbox user with a latency of 230ms (top Australian internet and all port forwarding settings on point) is a nightmare.

I've had a couple of thousand of hours on this game and weapon swap for us Aussies is a massive problem. I used to think it was perhaps the fact that I was terrible at the game and I must be missing the d-pad but after introducing new players to the game in my city they are bringing up issues like failed weapon swaps too. Now I see a post like this as well.

Will be buying the pro Xbox controller and giving that a go but I do believe something is not right on ESO's end too.

ContraTempo

mistermutiny89 wrote: »

Weapon swap for an Australian Xbox user with a latency of 230ms (top Australian internet and all port forwarding settings on point) is a nightmare.

True, I gotta admit I am practically sitting on top of the NA server. I could drive to it on my lunch break. Might affect latency a wee bit.

GeertKarel

Weapon swap will work, but you have to figure out for yourself when it will work and when you are better of waiting a millisecond longer.

SirDopey

DonoVDV wrote: »

Weapon swapping is just not as reliable as it should be. I credit this to the design, you have to first swap your weapon, then activate the ability on that bar. This is not optimal when you factor in other influences such as lag, cc and what not. Your ability is completely dependant on the success of the weapon swap.

I would like to see the design changed to activating the ability you want and having the weapon swap as a side effect. One way this can be achieved is by having designated key binds for back-bar abilities.

Well, to be fair, none of us could really get rid of our bows and unsheath our greatswords in a blink of en eye......just sayin

Molag_Crow

Totally agree... weapon swapping is meh, especially on console! >.<

SlayerTheDragon

Guys, what I am saying is this:

It seems as if the whole weapon swap thing is done [only] for the animation aesthetic.

Why cant both bars be on the screen at the same time?
Why do we need to swap weapons, then click the ability?

Just click an ability on the back bar slot, and the weapon swaps automatically. This way the ability will always fire!

(And seriously, I know this code is far easier than trying to make the current stuff work 100%)

Volkodav

I use Weapon Swap all the time.One bar has my bow skills,the other bar is set up for dual wield and it's skills.When I am far away,I use the bow,then when my enemy runs up closer,I swap and go at it with them.No problem.And I never seem to have lag. There are moments I have a tiny bit of hesitation,but not often enough to bother me.

DuckNoodles

Weapon swap is terrible, in pvp with the lag.

I was fightin a vet 16 and a vet 2, last night.

I killed the vet 16 went to kill the vet 2 and my weapon swap bar bugged out!! I couldn't do anything!! Had to try and run away! Vet 2 killed me, then tea baged me...... several times, then he/she started doing press ups over my body, like he was violating meeeeee! lol.

Made me laugh but still very annoying

Stranglehands

If they made it so all the passives from having weapons equipped and abilities slotted were always on regardless of what weapon you had out (rebalancing appropriately), would that be a bad thing and open the door for cheesy builds?

Just because if they didn't have to have any server interaction to swap weapons, they could move it all client side and make it far more responsive

SlayerTheDragon

Stranglehands wrote: »

Just because if they didn't have to have any server interaction to swap weapons, they could move it all client side and make it far more responsive

That could work very well.