What is the secret of the nightblades?

Teridaxus · February 2016

Stam sorcs, templars, heavy armour, vampires and many other things need fixing and then there is this
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2710514#Comment_2710514

Lysette · February 2016

So what is your point?- To me this seems to be one of the more reasonable changes.

lolo_01b16_ESO · February 2016

What do you mean? According to the post you linked my current stamblade 1h/shield build will not work at anymore. I'll be forced to become a ganker

Lysette · February 2016

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

What do you mean? According to the post you linked my current stamblade 1h/shield build will not work at anymore. I'll be forced to become a ganker

And what is wrong with it?-

The whole point of this class is to kill from stealth or at least quickly (if not in an instant) and without the consent of the victim. you don't go to him asking "do you mind if I'd kill you a little?" you just do it and the moment he realizes it, he will be dead. This is what the class is like, but there should be reasonable counters to it as well and these changes implement those.

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

SemiD4rkness · February 2016

Point is 20 nightblades complain about something and it get's fixed instantly. Templars/stam sorcs complain for a year and 0 changes are given.

Lysette · February 2016

So this thread is then just there because of envy?- "those get all the cookies and we got none" kind of thread?

Tryxus · February 2016

We just have more charisma and are more likeable since we never ask for nerfs...

AOECAPS · February 2016

Lmao this is ridiculous I have a magblade and was cool with the changes my stamplar is just looking for ability fixes and not needing to stay in my house. Zos must have chimps for designers

Alucardo · February 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

Do you know what the ridiculous thing is? A Nightblade running 1pc heavy with Immovable actually has MORE defence than a stamina sorc AND higher damage and more sustain.
Don't get me wrong, that's great, but I think stamina sorcs have far more reason to complain than any one else in this game. I feel a lot of bitterness when I see NBs whining, but that's on ZOS's head for not balancing the classes better.

lolo_01b16_ESO · February 2016

Lysette wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

What do you mean? According to the post you linked my current stamblade 1h/shield build will not work at anymore. I'll be forced to become a ganker

And what is wrong with it?-

The whole point of this class is to kill from stealth or at least quickly (if not in an instant) and without the consent of the victim. you don't go to him asking "do you mind if I'd kill you a little?" you just do it and the moment he realizes it, he will be dead. This is what the class is like, but there should be reasonable counters to it as well and these changes implement those.

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

Every patch they nerf defensive skills and then they have to add that stupid damage reduction to battlespirit. It started with reducing the amout of hp you get for each attribute point, blinding flashes removal, scales nerf, no stamina reg while blocking, streak nerf, dodge roll nerf, now cloak useless for melee builds and breath of life nerf.
What's next? Cast time on shields? Removal of impenetrable armour? Removing skills that add dodge chance? And at the same time they will have to increase the battle spirit damage reduction to 80%.

Lysette · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

Do you know what the ridiculous thing is? A Nightblade running 1pc heavy with Immovable actually has MORE defence than a stamina sorc AND higher damage and more sustain.
Don't get me wrong, that's great, but I think stamina sorcs have far more reason to complain than any one else in this game. I feel a lot of bitterness when I see NBs whining, but that's on ZOS's head for not balancing the classes better.

Yes, I can see your pain (lol, I sound like Mama Murphy in Fallour 4) - NB should be the glass cannon class with high burst damage, able to kill in one from stealth, but otherwise would have to rely on hit and run tactics. That is how I see this class and how I am playing it. i mean there is nothing stealthy in being a tank in the middle of the crowd, this does not make sense.

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Point is 20 nightblades complain about something and it get's fixed instantly. Templars/stam sorcs complain for a year and 0 changes are given.

It did not get fixed. It didnt get implemented. And it was an absurd design choice. I still think skill lockouts are a bad idea in a game where you only get to put 6 skills on your bar. Just wait till this comes to other overused skills people complain about like shields.

AlnilamE · February 2016

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Point is 20 nightblades complain about something and it get's fixed instantly. Templars/stam sorcs complain for a year and 0 changes are given.

Were you around when cloak pretty much didn't work? It took a long time to get fixed as well.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · February 2016

AlnilamE wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Point is 20 nightblades complain about something and it get's fixed instantly. Templars/stam sorcs complain for a year and 0 changes are given.

Were you around when cloak pretty much didn't work? It took a long time to get fixed as well.

Cloak was fixed when IC (Yes Imperial City) dropped, before that it always had issues and failed to work. oh and about what is happening with cloak, look around, I made plenty of posts but people dont pay attention, if you want this returned to live you nightblade people need to express how upset you are and post about it...

Chori · February 2016

Lysette wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

Do you know what the ridiculous thing is? A Nightblade running 1pc heavy with Immovable actually has MORE defence than a stamina sorc AND higher damage and more sustain.
Don't get me wrong, that's great, but I think stamina sorcs have far more reason to complain than any one else in this game. I feel a lot of bitterness when I see NBs whining, but that's on ZOS's head for not balancing the classes better.

Yes, I can see your pain (lol, I sound like Mama Murphy in Fallour 4) - NB should be the glass cannon class with high burst damage, able to kill in one from stealth, but otherwise would have to rely on hit and run tactics. That is how I see this class and how I am playing it. i mean there is nothing stealthy in being a tank in the middle of the crowd, this does not make sense.

And why should we all nightblades run a burst build huh? No sap tank? No sustain/mobility build? No 1vX build because we are not supposed to have this playstyle either? Why every nightblade has to be stealthy to be considered a nightblade?lol. The class is meant to be play the way each person wants to. You are entitled to your way thats cool, doesn't take credit away from every other player that runs something different and that actually enjoy it.

From my perpective you can still be bursty without being a glass cannon, you can still be stealthy without camping in one place ganking / trying to one shot ppl, you can still run a viable and very good build without having an extremely high dmg output.

D0ntevenL1ft · February 2016

The lesson to be learned here is that you can never ever make too many complaining threads. Everyone start posting multiple threads about what you think would benefit your class and your class only, and ZOS will implement it in due time.

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

Lysette wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

What do you mean? According to the post you linked my current stamblade 1h/shield build will not work at anymore. I'll be forced to become a ganker

And what is wrong with it?-

The whole point of this class is to kill from stealth or at least quickly (if not in an instant) and without the consent of the victim. you don't go to him asking "do you mind if I'd kill you a little?" you just do it and the moment he realizes it, he will be dead. This is what the class is like, but there should be reasonable counters to it as well and these changes implement those.

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

The problem with this statement is that classes in ESO are far wider categories than in other MMOs. Each class contains multiple archetypes. Sure, NBs can be stealthy assassins but they can also be deadly archers or life draining warlocks/blood knights.

Tholian1 · February 2016

Chori wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

Do you know what the ridiculous thing is? A Nightblade running 1pc heavy with Immovable actually has MORE defence than a stamina sorc AND higher damage and more sustain.
Don't get me wrong, that's great, but I think stamina sorcs have far more reason to complain than any one else in this game. I feel a lot of bitterness when I see NBs whining, but that's on ZOS's head for not balancing the classes better.

Yes, I can see your pain (lol, I sound like Mama Murphy in Fallour 4) - NB should be the glass cannon class with high burst damage, able to kill in one from stealth, but otherwise would have to rely on hit and run tactics. That is how I see this class and how I am playing it. i mean there is nothing stealthy in being a tank in the middle of the crowd, this does not make sense.

And why should we all nightblades run a burst build huh? No sap tank? No sustain/mobility build? No 1vX build because we are not supposed to have this playstyle either? Why every nightblade has to be stealthy to be considered a nightblade?lol. The class is meant to be play the way each person wants to. You are entitled to your way thats cool, doesn't take credit away from every other player that runs something different and that actually enjoy it.

From my perpective you can still be bursty without being a glass cannon, you can still be stealthy without camping in one place ganking / trying to one shot ppl, you can still run a viable and very good build without having an extremely high dmg output.

If cloak is nerfed too much, then the class can't really be any more stealthy than any other class. I wouldn't have chosen to play a NB if I was interested in being a tank. But that is just my perspective about the class.

All I see are players of other classes wanting NBs to be limited to a certain play style they know they can easily win against.

Chori · February 2016

Tholian1 wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

Do you know what the ridiculous thing is? A Nightblade running 1pc heavy with Immovable actually has MORE defence than a stamina sorc AND higher damage and more sustain.
Don't get me wrong, that's great, but I think stamina sorcs have far more reason to complain than any one else in this game. I feel a lot of bitterness when I see NBs whining, but that's on ZOS's head for not balancing the classes better.

Yes, I can see your pain (lol, I sound like Mama Murphy in Fallour 4) - NB should be the glass cannon class with high burst damage, able to kill in one from stealth, but otherwise would have to rely on hit and run tactics. That is how I see this class and how I am playing it. i mean there is nothing stealthy in being a tank in the middle of the crowd, this does not make sense.

And why should we all nightblades run a burst build huh? No sap tank? No sustain/mobility build? No 1vX build because we are not supposed to have this playstyle either? Why every nightblade has to be stealthy to be considered a nightblade?lol. The class is meant to be play the way each person wants to. You are entitled to your way thats cool, doesn't take credit away from every other player that runs something different and that actually enjoy it.

From my perpective you can still be bursty without being a glass cannon, you can still be stealthy without camping in one place ganking / trying to one shot ppl, you can still run a viable and very good build without having an extremely high dmg output.

If cloak is nerfed too much, then the class can't really be any more stealthy than any other class. I wouldn't have chosen to play a NB if I was interested in being a tank. But that is just my perspective about the class.

All I see are players of other classes wanting NBs to be limited to a certain play style they know they can easily win against.

The cloak nerf was not the issue to begin with, the buff to magelight was. But they tweaked that recently and it wont be as strong this means you can still be stealthy and people will have to adapt. Nightblades isnt all about cloak, there is other stuff to be used, example: shadow image and mass hysteria. If you are a nightblade that relies completely on cloak only, then you are doing it wrong because the skill isnt even working half of the time.

LegacyDM · February 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

Do you know what the ridiculous thing is? A Nightblade running 1pc heavy with Immovable actually has MORE defence than a stamina sorc AND higher damage and more sustain.
Don't get me wrong, that's great, but I think stamina sorcs have far more reason to complain than any one else in this game. I feel a lot of bitterness when I see NBs whining, but that's on ZOS's head for not balancing the classes better.

Cry me a river. Go watch fengrush twitch and learn some tips on l2p. He doesn't have any issues and wrecks face with his wb, streak, and crit charge combo. Or go sword and board and use low slash and reverberating bash attacks. Stam sorcs are very strong.

SymbioteKing26 · February 2016

Cheese. Shally empowers us with invisibility to go forth and steal cheese and henceforth consume it. It is that simple!

Farorin · February 2016

My mains are a templar and a nightblade.

Sucks that templars are shafted, and sucks that NBs received a nerf and that their counters simultaneously received a buff. ZOS said they would make the buff to the counters a tiny bit less hectic, and I am happy with this.

We should focus on our own issues and hold the people who make the changes accountable (ZOS, Wrobel), rather than being petty and jealous, and pointing the finger at the wrong people (other players).

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · February 2016

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Point is 20 nightblades complain about something and it get's fixed instantly. Templars/stam sorcs complain for a year and 0 changes are given.

You must be new for the first year the whole class was near unplayable flat out wrong tooltip a buggy powers it was a joke. Stamina builds in general were bigger jokes so Stamina Nightblades were laughing stocks.

The biggest push for class stamina powers were from stamina Nightblades and we were 90% of the class and nearly all the stamina builds. That's why we have more stamina morphs and they take stamina builds into account more often.

People jump from Favor of the Month build to new Cheese builds and back again making balance hard to achieve. The other classes simply have not been as stable as Stamina Nightblades.

melodeath · February 2016

its not about classes anymore.. since about a year ago it became all about who can slot the most bugged gear and skills to reach the top.

melodeath · February 2016

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

Do you know what the ridiculous thing is? A Nightblade running 1pc heavy with Immovable actually has MORE defence than a stamina sorc AND higher damage and more sustain.
Don't get me wrong, that's great, but I think stamina sorcs have far more reason to complain than any one else in this game. I feel a lot of bitterness when I see NBs whining, but that's on ZOS's head for not balancing the classes better.

Cry me a river. Go watch fengrush twitch and learn some tips on l2p. He doesn't have any issues and wrecks face with his wb, streak, and crit charge combo. Or go sword and board and use low slash and reverberating bash attacks. Stam sorcs are very strong.

i watched it and although i like him.. he uses the axe bleed bug, extra stats from offbar bug and the molag kena not requiring 2 light attacks bug.. wich is what im pointing at in my response above.

Autolycus · February 2016

I'm not sure I see why OP has such a problem with ZOS listening to feedback. I mean, I get the fact that so many other things need to be addressed, but ZOS has always been quicker to fix things that cause a huge backlash (just like when Overload broke from a patch). Don't get me wrong, I want to see a lot of other things addressed too.

I think the reason this was addressed so quickly is because it was flawed by design - reveal effects should never have been given a skill-lock function. An effective counter, absolutely. There is nothing wrong with having magelight or flare render invisibility useless for x seconds... but shadow passives are tied to casting shadow skills, and the primary source for accessing those passives was made uncastable (especially when considering Mark, which effectively is a permanent skill lock).

Imagine if they made Silver Bolts so that when it hits a target, said target couldn't cast BoL or Ward for X seconds. Wouldn't that *** a lot of people off?

AfkNinja · February 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

I'm not sure I see why OP has such a problem with ZOS listening to feedback. I mean, I get the fact that so many other things need to be addressed, but ZOS has always been quicker to fix things that cause a huge backlash (just like when Overload broke from a patch). Don't get me wrong, I want to see a lot of other things addressed too.

I think the reason this was addressed so quickly is because it was flawed by design - reveal effects should never have been given a skill-lock function. An effective counter, absolutely. There is nothing wrong with having magelight or flare render invisibility useless for x seconds... but shadow passives are tied to casting shadow skills, and the primary source for accessing those passives was made uncastable (especially when considering Mark, which effectively is a permanent skill lock).

Imagine if they made Silver Bolts so that when it hits a target, said target couldn't cast BoL or Ward for X seconds. Wouldn't that *** a lot of people off?

Does the templar thread being over 2000 posts not count as a huge backlash? Yet ZOS ignored us, again. The OP has a point and I understand his frustration. Don't blame it on NB's tho, blame it on ZOS.

Tankqull · February 2016

Lysette wrote: »

lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »

What do you mean? According to the post you linked my current stamblade 1h/shield build will not work at anymore. I'll be forced to become a ganker

And what is wrong with it?-

The whole point of this class is to kill from stealth or at least quickly (if not in an instant) and without the consent of the victim. you don't go to him asking "do you mind if I'd kill you a little?" you just do it and the moment he realizes it, he will be dead. This is what the class is like, but there should be reasonable counters to it as well and these changes implement those.

Edit: I will put it differently - NB is IMO meant to be the glass cannon class - high burst damage, but low defenses compared to other classes. So this is a class for hit and run tactics, it is not meant to be sustainable in a mass battle.

well i do not have any problem with that - BUT all those guys allready crying rivers for the nerfes to be comming forcing all NBs even those who previously did not into the ganking setup as every other build will no lonmger work anymore, will spew curses all over the place...

Autolycus · February 2016

AfkNinja wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

I'm not sure I see why OP has such a problem with ZOS listening to feedback. I mean, I get the fact that so many other things need to be addressed, but ZOS has always been quicker to fix things that cause a huge backlash (just like when Overload broke from a patch). Don't get me wrong, I want to see a lot of other things addressed too.

I think the reason this was addressed so quickly is because it was flawed by design - reveal effects should never have been given a skill-lock function. An effective counter, absolutely. There is nothing wrong with having magelight or flare render invisibility useless for x seconds... but shadow passives are tied to casting shadow skills, and the primary source for accessing those passives was made uncastable (especially when considering Mark, which effectively is a permanent skill lock).

Imagine if they made Silver Bolts so that when it hits a target, said target couldn't cast BoL or Ward for X seconds. Wouldn't that *** a lot of people off?

Does the templar thread being over 2000 posts not count as a huge backlash? Yet ZOS ignored us, again. The OP has a point and I understand his frustration. Don't blame it on NB's tho, blame it on ZOS.

I was in no way trying to suggest that the templar thread wasn't.... it seems obvious to me that it counts as backlash and needs to be addressed. I mean, I agree with a lot of that too. All I was saying is that I understand why they responded to it in that manner. As to why they didn't treat the templar thread with the same degree of punctuality is beyond me.

I think it's a reasonable point too, and would agree it's not NBs that are to blame. Frankly, I couldn't care less who is to blame if it gets resolved

Thrasher91604 · February 2016

And why would the most overpowered class get further benefits? That's what I would like to know.

It looks like I won' be playing PvP anytime soon.

davey1107 · February 2016

A Nightblade running 1pc heavy with Immovable actually has MORE defence than a stamina sorc AND higher damage and more sustain.

Why wouldn't they have more defense? And a stamina Templar would have more defense than a stamblade...and a DK would trump,them all.

A stamina sorc is a very niche play style. You can't expect such a toon to run superior in these major categories - they have to compete by combining unexpected varieties of abilities and playing to their strengths.