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Reason for no group damage meters?
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
Then might I suggest asking for improvements on it then?Elijah_Crow wrote: »
But after the fact and with no situational context.
That or someone can make another add on to do what FTC does, but better. Or have GroupDamage edited to have an opt out function (which it apparently can't? I've been told it has technical limitations)
The main reason it was removed was because of its "spying" function where no one could say no to being inspected. If an add on existed (like FTC) that had the ability to opt out existed, then no one would bat an eye.
Well, yea. And thats what a lot of people who supported it were asking for.
As it is, FTC just shows a number at the end of the fight that disregards things like; the person had to stop dps because of mechanics, the execute phase bootsted the numbers, lacking resources, a bad timer start, etc. all of which GD actively displayed. This is not a problem for people who know the fights and mechanics well, because they will know when things pick up or drop off. But it is potentially very toxic in groups who are less experienced, which is the situation many dislike.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
I've never understood why ppl need this. Other than wanting to boot someone or say I'm better than or worse than X player
*Group leaders can arange groups so that there is a better chance of suceeding even with lower dps. This has the potential to lessen the chance of failure and people feeling responsible for said failure.
*you can more easily see where you sit in the groups damage pool, and can have better tools to decide whether you want to improve what you are doing, or if you are fine where you are. (More importantly fine with where you are.)
*you can actually see if that elitest prick is puting his money where his mouth is, or if hes just a jerk who wants a group to carry him. (I find the latter to be true frequently, especially when he dies and we complete without him.)
*groups going for faster and smoother runs can more easily pinpoint places where things fall off, and can more easily take steps to improve as a team.
[EDIT] i just want to state these are alternate reasons, not necessarily better or worse, just alternate.
I think you are missing the ZOS design.
Their game success isn't based on DPS or Heal or tanking....just look at the recent changes.
-Scaling all players to the max levels
-opening up cross faction grouping and trials (BETA)
-removing VR levels and going to a CP basis with CP caps
-nerfs this, expand that, change this, adjust that
-group bonus if using grouping tools
The new Trail, although it will be challenging at first, its largely mechanics and knowing what to do and how to compliment or play well with others. The only "end game" that works off DPS scales or Healing meters is vMSA and now that its adding save progress...well you see where I'm going with this.
While it may not align with what you prefer and you may even disagree with what I'm sharing....this game is not make it or break it based on meters by design.
There are a lot of technical reasons the people can come up with to demonstrate the value of dps meters, but their value is irrelevant. DPS meters are not necessary as you point out, but many people find enjoyment in them which is the most compelling reason to allow them. Allowing an opt out/in toggle allows everyone to be happy. The only negative of this approach is people being kicked for opting out, but they can already be kicked for not having ftc sharing enabled.
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Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
Then might I suggest asking for improvements on it then?Elijah_Crow wrote: »
But after the fact and with no situational context.
That or someone can make another add on to do what FTC does, but better. Or have GroupDamage edited to have an opt out function (which it apparently can't? I've been told it has technical limitations)
The main reason it was removed was because of its "spying" function where no one could say no to being inspected. If an add on existed (like FTC) that had the ability to opt out existed, then no one would bat an eye.
Well, yea. And thats what a lot of people who supported it were asking for.
As it is, FTC just shows a number at the end of the fight that disregards things like; the person had to stop dps because of mechanics, the execute phase bootsted the numbers, lacking resources, a bad timer start, etc. all of which GD actively displayed. This is not a problem for people who know the fights and mechanics well, because they will know when things pick up or drop off. But it is potentially very toxic in groups who are less experienced, which is the situation many dislike.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »
I've never understood why ppl need this. Other than wanting to boot someone or say I'm better than or worse than X player
*Group leaders can arange groups so that there is a better chance of suceeding even with lower dps. This has the potential to lessen the chance of failure and people feeling responsible for said failure.
*you can more easily see where you sit in the groups damage pool, and can have better tools to decide whether you want to improve what you are doing, or if you are fine where you are. (More importantly fine with where you are.)
*you can actually see if that elitest prick is puting his money where his mouth is, or if hes just a jerk who wants a group to carry him. (I find the latter to be true frequently, especially when he dies and we complete without him.)
*groups going for faster and smoother runs can more easily pinpoint places where things fall off, and can more easily take steps to improve as a team.
[EDIT] i just want to state these are alternate reasons, not necessarily better or worse, just alternate.
I think you are missing the ZOS design.
Their game success isn't based on DPS or Heal or tanking....just look at the recent changes.
-Scaling all players to the max levels
-opening up cross faction grouping and trials (BETA)
-removing VR levels and going to a CP basis with CP caps
-nerfs this, expand that, change this, adjust that
-group bonus if using grouping tools
The new Trail, although it will be challenging at first, its largely mechanics and knowing what to do and how to compliment or play well with others. The only "end game" that works off DPS scales or Healing meters is vMSA and now that its adding save progress...well you see where I'm going with this.
While it may not align with what you prefer and you may even disagree with what I'm sharing....this game is not make it or break it based on meters by design.
So....again...Why do ppl need it, other than booting someone or seeing that they are better o worse than another player....WHICH FYI isn't solely based on stats or a rotation. The beauty of this game is...its real time combat so meters typically only work well in games that are call n response like the older traditional MMORPGs that even new MMOs are made today off that design, but not ESO...
Not sure thats good or bad but the real time combat is why I like it.
To put it easiest, i do not disagree with you. But i do think i adressed what you are saying especially in my first and fourth points. And in the first quote i responded to. If you reread the first part of my response, i directly address the action combat. Specifically how GD trumps FTC as a meeter (situation, mechanics, etc.) I do fully get what you are saying.
To rehash an old song and dance that we are (unfortunately, and sorry) both are familiar with, like with text chat; its useful, helpful, people want it. Necesity is not part of that, nor its it a necesary requirement. Also, i am 110% behind the 'forced disable' on groupfinder. Where, i think, the only abuse of it to kick people would occur.
I am pro-options, and this is readded as an option with strict useage restrictions, it would benifit guilds and groups that use it, while not hindering the grouping community.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
ajwest927✭✭✭Probably the same reason you can't inpesct other people gears and stats is because some people would just use it to kick or exclude someone from the group.0 -
khele23eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To make class imbalance less obvious.P2P offered you 'hell yeah!' moments. F2P offers you 'thank god its over' moments.0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Probably the same reason you can't inpesct other people gears and stats is because some people would just use it to kick or exclude someone from the group.
Many such people are just looking for an excuse to do so anyways... For some reason, they think having a reason makes them less of a jerk.
One of my favorite things was how this kind of thing was abused with gearscore in WoW. People would equip an off spec piece of gear that did not benifit their build whatsoever, but it had a higher score, just to get past the check. And then they would go back to the benificial piece and finish the run just fine... Because in the end, those people who would boot because of it had absolutely no clue why they checked in the first place. Interesting thing to bring up, but i thought id share.
This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!2
