Why Nerfing Magicka Det wont work.

Toc de Malsvi

The fact of the matter is in the current form Magicka Det allows you to pre-load dps without having to use action time to activate the actual explosion. This means its a flat boost to burst no matter how weak it may seem versus one target it will still be a boost to your burst because you can still buff yourself up with it and not worry about having to activate or flight time. Essentially it is free damage to your burst, which means regardless of how much damage it does unless it does next to nothing versus one target it will always be used regardless of 1v1 or 1vX.

This could easily be fixed by changing the skill to only detonate if you get X number of targets within the circle, say 4-5 targets inside and it detonates for high damage. This would provide the 1vX bonus without it being so overpowered and used for every situation regardless of opponents faced.

leepalmer95

People really need to learn how to block , are people running around with such squishy builds that magicka det seems to be the only thing that kills them?

Vangy

Obligatory L2block, L2p blah blah QQ.

On a sidenote its all fun and games until every single player ranging from noob,boobs and pros all have proxy det in a day or 2....or 3 if you're really bad at pvp.

All hail the cometh of 20 man zergs running 20 proxy dets and the rain of undodgeable, unreflectable fireball showers that come with the new and improved meteor. Any noob can time a meteor click with an unblockable cc lol. Not to mention that noob will also have proxy det ticking. You better be blocking and pray that noob is so noob he dosent know how to use streak or fear lol.

leepalmer95

Vangy wrote: »

Obligatory L2block, L2p blah blah QQ.

On a sidenote its all fun and games until every single player ranging from noob,boobs and pros all have proxy det in a day or 2....or 3 if you're really bad at pvp.

All hail the cometh of 20 man zergs running 20 proxy dets and the rain of undodgeable, unreflectable fireball showers that come with the new and improved meteor. Any noob can time a meteor click with an unblockable cc lol. Not to mention that noob will also have proxy det ticking. You better be blocking and pray that noob is so noob he dosent know how to use streak or fear lol.

Oh i know this is coming, hence why i was complaining when they introduced the 90% reduction, not sure why the Pve carebears need proxy det? It's not a must for anything in pve. Vigor/caltraps yes, vigor is needed, caltraps is useful. Not sure why a 20-30% reduction was used instead.

It's not like getting 200k ap is hard.

But yeah my lvl 30 is going to love his proxy det.

Vangy

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Obligatory L2block, L2p blah blah QQ.

On a sidenote its all fun and games until every single player ranging from noob,boobs and pros all have proxy det in a day or 2....or 3 if you're really bad at pvp.

All hail the cometh of 20 man zergs running 20 proxy dets and the rain of undodgeable, unreflectable fireball showers that come with the new and improved meteor. Any noob can time a meteor click with an unblockable cc lol. Not to mention that noob will also have proxy det ticking. You better be blocking and pray that noob is so noob he dosent know how to use streak or fear lol.

Oh i know this is coming, hence why i was complaining when they introduced the 90% reduction, not sure why the Pve carebears need proxy det? It's not a must for anything in pve. Vigor/caltraps yes, vigor is needed, caltraps is useful. Not sure why a 20-30% reduction was used instead.

It's not like getting 200k ap is hard.

But yeah my lvl 30 is going to love his proxy det.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at by from what I'm inferring (I might be mistaken) you're acknowledging that proxy det with the new meteor and unblockable cc is going to be broken. All the new change to alliance points system is that now everyone will have proxy. I don't think a broken combination of skills in fewer hands as compared to everyone having access to it is a better scenario. It still won't change the fact that something like proxy det> velocious curse> (spam spam)> shards/streak> dawn breaker of smiting or proxy det>velocious curse>meteor>streak is going to be unblockable and pretty much one hit ko even tanks (yes they still exist ). The only work around I see is using immovable pots or the skill to avoid this. But I think that's a little unreasonable....

leepalmer95

Vangy wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Obligatory L2block, L2p blah blah QQ.

On a sidenote its all fun and games until every single player ranging from noob,boobs and pros all have proxy det in a day or 2....or 3 if you're really bad at pvp.

All hail the cometh of 20 man zergs running 20 proxy dets and the rain of undodgeable, unreflectable fireball showers that come with the new and improved meteor. Any noob can time a meteor click with an unblockable cc lol. Not to mention that noob will also have proxy det ticking. You better be blocking and pray that noob is so noob he dosent know how to use streak or fear lol.

Oh i know this is coming, hence why i was complaining when they introduced the 90% reduction, not sure why the Pve carebears need proxy det? It's not a must for anything in pve. Vigor/caltraps yes, vigor is needed, caltraps is useful. Not sure why a 20-30% reduction was used instead.

It's not like getting 200k ap is hard.

But yeah my lvl 30 is going to love his proxy det.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at by from what I'm inferring (I might be mistaken) you're acknowledging that proxy det with the new meteor and unblockable cc is going to be broken. All the new change to alliance points system is that now everyone will have proxy. I don't think a broken combination of skills in fewer hands as compared to everyone having access to it is a better scenario. It still won't change the fact that something like proxy det> velocious curse> (spam spam)> shards/streak> dawn breaker of smiting or proxy det>velocious curse>meteor>streak is going to be unblockable and pretty much one hit ko even tanks (yes they still exist ). The only work around I see is using immovable pots or the skill to avoid this. But I think that's a little unreasonable....

It's not broken, you can block it, your can block meteor etc... it's all a matter of skill both for the person using it and the person it's being used on.

However when everyone random in Cyrodiil will have access to it, those large scale group fights are basically just going to be proxy fight. At least at the moment if someone wants det they need to work for it and gain 1.6m ap. It's not handed to them but it's like a reward for pvping for so long and for working for it.

Basically next patch, all progression will vanish and you can just cry for something on the forum and Zos will give it to you.

I'm already preparing my reduce mage/fighters/1-50 levelling/undaunted skill lines by 90% because there too long to get and it's 'impacting' my pvp, basically the opposite argument of the pve's. It's basically their one that got reworded.

The 90% reduction was so unnecessary... could of been a number of ways Zos could of done this. A flat 20% reduction is a start, combined with the double ap per kill and maybe get ap for siegeing walls would also help?

The ap from siegeing walls should be a thing, the full durability of a siege should give 50% of it's cost back or something.

But no their answer was lets just get rid of all progression for pvp, so people can max it in 3 days.

FriedEggSandwich

I don't understand. It's a skill that takes up space on your bars and costs magicka. It's essentially a dot that does all its damage on the last tick, similar to velocious curse.

Forestd16b14_ESO

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People really need to learn how to block , are people running around with such squishy builds that magicka det seems to be the only thing that kills them?

Magic det can be used from stealth what every one jsut needs to walk around cyrodiil with block up 24/7 ?

Vangy

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Obligatory L2block, L2p blah blah QQ.

On a sidenote its all fun and games until every single player ranging from noob,boobs and pros all have proxy det in a day or 2....or 3 if you're really bad at pvp.

All hail the cometh of 20 man zergs running 20 proxy dets and the rain of undodgeable, unreflectable fireball showers that come with the new and improved meteor. Any noob can time a meteor click with an unblockable cc lol. Not to mention that noob will also have proxy det ticking. You better be blocking and pray that noob is so noob he dosent know how to use streak or fear lol.

Oh i know this is coming, hence why i was complaining when they introduced the 90% reduction, not sure why the Pve carebears need proxy det? It's not a must for anything in pve. Vigor/caltraps yes, vigor is needed, caltraps is useful. Not sure why a 20-30% reduction was used instead.

It's not like getting 200k ap is hard.

But yeah my lvl 30 is going to love his proxy det.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at by from what I'm inferring (I might be mistaken) you're acknowledging that proxy det with the new meteor and unblockable cc is going to be broken. All the new change to alliance points system is that now everyone will have proxy. I don't think a broken combination of skills in fewer hands as compared to everyone having access to it is a better scenario. It still won't change the fact that something like proxy det> velocious curse> (spam spam)> shards/streak> dawn breaker of smiting or proxy det>velocious curse>meteor>streak is going to be unblockable and pretty much one hit ko even tanks (yes they still exist ). The only work around I see is using immovable pots or the skill to avoid this. But I think that's a little unreasonable....

It's not broken, you can block it, your can block meteor etc... it's all a matter of skill both for the person using it and the person it's being used on.

However when everyone random in Cyrodiil will have access to it, those large scale group fights are basically just going to be proxy fight. At least at the moment if someone wants det they need to work for it and gain 1.6m ap. It's not handed to them but it's like a reward for pvping for so long and for working for it.

Basically next patch, all progression will vanish and you can just cry for something on the forum and Zos will give it to you.

I'm already preparing my reduce mage/fighters/1-50 levelling/undaunted skill lines by 90% because there too long to get and it's 'impacting' my pvp, basically the opposite argument of the pve's. It's basically their one that got reworded.

The 90% reduction was so unnecessary... could of been a number of ways Zos could of done this. A flat 20% reduction is a start, combined with the double ap per kill and maybe get ap for siegeing walls would also help?

The ap from siegeing walls should be a thing, the full durability of a siege should give 50% of it's cost back or something.

But no their answer was lets just get rid of all progression for pvp, so people can max it in 3 days.

Pardon I think I'm not being clear with my point of view. Let me try this again. What you're saying is already happening in cyro pre changed; with just one key difference.

Coordinated Long time pvpers (such as my pvp guilds) are doing exactly what you're pointing out. Getting a group 10-15 people running proxy det, swarm, etc etc and basically farming everyone who dosent have proxy. Proxy det is anything but a Zerg buster now. It's being used in EVERY single fight be it a 1v1 or a 20v20. I don't think proxy should be so effective in small scale but the sad truth is that it is. Used in conjunction with other delayed burst abilites coupled with an unblockable cc, there is very little counter play or skill involved. Any good player will save his unblockable cc for when proxy det is about to go off and time an ultimate with it. Unless you have cc immunity you're dead... All this does is let Long time pvpers farm New players. Not only do the new players lack the level of skill to play agaisnt people who have vigor/proxy unlocked, but shortchange them even more by prohibiting access to these essential pvp abilities.... No one likes to get farmed...

Not to mention proxy works from stealth as someone pointed out. It's basically the magicka version of camo hunter snipe spam.

I hope this is clearer!

leepalmer95

Vangy wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Obligatory L2block, L2p blah blah QQ.

On a sidenote its all fun and games until every single player ranging from noob,boobs and pros all have proxy det in a day or 2....or 3 if you're really bad at pvp.

All hail the cometh of 20 man zergs running 20 proxy dets and the rain of undodgeable, unreflectable fireball showers that come with the new and improved meteor. Any noob can time a meteor click with an unblockable cc lol. Not to mention that noob will also have proxy det ticking. You better be blocking and pray that noob is so noob he dosent know how to use streak or fear lol.

Oh i know this is coming, hence why i was complaining when they introduced the 90% reduction, not sure why the Pve carebears need proxy det? It's not a must for anything in pve. Vigor/caltraps yes, vigor is needed, caltraps is useful. Not sure why a 20-30% reduction was used instead.

It's not like getting 200k ap is hard.

But yeah my lvl 30 is going to love his proxy det.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at by from what I'm inferring (I might be mistaken) you're acknowledging that proxy det with the new meteor and unblockable cc is going to be broken. All the new change to alliance points system is that now everyone will have proxy. I don't think a broken combination of skills in fewer hands as compared to everyone having access to it is a better scenario. It still won't change the fact that something like proxy det> velocious curse> (spam spam)> shards/streak> dawn breaker of smiting or proxy det>velocious curse>meteor>streak is going to be unblockable and pretty much one hit ko even tanks (yes they still exist ). The only work around I see is using immovable pots or the skill to avoid this. But I think that's a little unreasonable....

It's not broken, you can block it, your can block meteor etc... it's all a matter of skill both for the person using it and the person it's being used on.

However when everyone random in Cyrodiil will have access to it, those large scale group fights are basically just going to be proxy fight. At least at the moment if someone wants det they need to work for it and gain 1.6m ap. It's not handed to them but it's like a reward for pvping for so long and for working for it.

Basically next patch, all progression will vanish and you can just cry for something on the forum and Zos will give it to you.

I'm already preparing my reduce mage/fighters/1-50 levelling/undaunted skill lines by 90% because there too long to get and it's 'impacting' my pvp, basically the opposite argument of the pve's. It's basically their one that got reworded.

The 90% reduction was so unnecessary... could of been a number of ways Zos could of done this. A flat 20% reduction is a start, combined with the double ap per kill and maybe get ap for siegeing walls would also help?

The ap from siegeing walls should be a thing, the full durability of a siege should give 50% of it's cost back or something.

But no their answer was lets just get rid of all progression for pvp, so people can max it in 3 days.

Pardon I think I'm not being clear with my point of view. Let me try this again. What you're saying is already happening in cyro pre changed; with just one key difference.

Coordinated Long time pvpers (such as my pvp guilds) are doing exactly what you're pointing out. Getting a group 10-15 people running proxy det, swarm, etc etc and basically farming everyone who dosent have proxy. Proxy det is anything but a Zerg buster now. It's being used in EVERY single fight be it a 1v1 or a 20v20. I don't think proxy should be so effective in small scale but the sad truth is that it is. Used in conjunction with other delayed burst abilites coupled with an unblockable cc, there is very little counter play or skill involved. Any good player will save his unblockable cc for when proxy det is about to go off and time an ultimate with it. Unless you have cc immunity you're dead... All this does is let Long time pvpers farm New players. Not only do the new players lack the level of skill to play agaisnt people who have vigor/proxy unlocked, but shortchange them even more by prohibiting access to these essential pvp abilities.... No one likes to get farmed...

Not to mention proxy works from stealth as someone pointed out. It's basically the magicka version of camo hunter snipe spam.

I hope this is clearer!

Aah i see, i play on ps4 and the proxy problem isn't bad because a lot of people don't have access to it or are using stamina builds. Though i suppose you could also see that as progression also without det people would still do it with steel tornado/sap/swarm, proxy isn't the underlying problem there it's the group type of gameplay pvp has become.

I see it but only in massive fights and even then theres only a few capable of using it, any trying to use invet det usually just dies because of the cast time and the fact they need to get close.

Perhaps they should adjust it, but then again mag det is usually the only way i can kill a sorc on a magicka build, it's hard try to burst through 25k shields and then their hp bar. If they do nerf it then they need to make it bad in 1v1 1v2 but then increase it's radius and dmg so people actually slot it for groups. It would be sad if they nerfed it to the point it's usleless unless 10+ people are in it.

I'd be happy if they increase the cap to 200% increase the area by 6m but then reduce the base toolitp dmg to something like 6k. So in 1v1/2 etc .... it'll do about 3-4k dmg but when theres a big group of like 10+ it'll do more like 6k-9k

leepalmer95

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People really need to learn how to block , are people running around with such squishy builds that magicka det seems to be the only thing that kills them?

Magic det can be used from stealth what every one jsut needs to walk around cyrodiil with block up 24/7 ?

Anything can be used from stealth, people can 1 hit you with a snipe/SA/Wb etc... Any Ult+High dmg skill will waste people.

Vangy

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Obligatory L2block, L2p blah blah QQ.

On a sidenote its all fun and games until every single player ranging from noob,boobs and pros all have proxy det in a day or 2....or 3 if you're really bad at pvp.

All hail the cometh of 20 man zergs running 20 proxy dets and the rain of undodgeable, unreflectable fireball showers that come with the new and improved meteor. Any noob can time a meteor click with an unblockable cc lol. Not to mention that noob will also have proxy det ticking. You better be blocking and pray that noob is so noob he dosent know how to use streak or fear lol.

Oh i know this is coming, hence why i was complaining when they introduced the 90% reduction, not sure why the Pve carebears need proxy det? It's not a must for anything in pve. Vigor/caltraps yes, vigor is needed, caltraps is useful. Not sure why a 20-30% reduction was used instead.

It's not like getting 200k ap is hard.

But yeah my lvl 30 is going to love his proxy det.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at by from what I'm inferring (I might be mistaken) you're acknowledging that proxy det with the new meteor and unblockable cc is going to be broken. All the new change to alliance points system is that now everyone will have proxy. I don't think a broken combination of skills in fewer hands as compared to everyone having access to it is a better scenario. It still won't change the fact that something like proxy det> velocious curse> (spam spam)> shards/streak> dawn breaker of smiting or proxy det>velocious curse>meteor>streak is going to be unblockable and pretty much one hit ko even tanks (yes they still exist ). The only work around I see is using immovable pots or the skill to avoid this. But I think that's a little unreasonable....

It's not broken, you can block it, your can block meteor etc... it's all a matter of skill both for the person using it and the person it's being used on.

However when everyone random in Cyrodiil will have access to it, those large scale group fights are basically just going to be proxy fight. At least at the moment if someone wants det they need to work for it and gain 1.6m ap. It's not handed to them but it's like a reward for pvping for so long and for working for it.

Basically next patch, all progression will vanish and you can just cry for something on the forum and Zos will give it to you.

I'm already preparing my reduce mage/fighters/1-50 levelling/undaunted skill lines by 90% because there too long to get and it's 'impacting' my pvp, basically the opposite argument of the pve's. It's basically their one that got reworded.

The 90% reduction was so unnecessary... could of been a number of ways Zos could of done this. A flat 20% reduction is a start, combined with the double ap per kill and maybe get ap for siegeing walls would also help?

The ap from siegeing walls should be a thing, the full durability of a siege should give 50% of it's cost back or something.

But no their answer was lets just get rid of all progression for pvp, so people can max it in 3 days.

Pardon I think I'm not being clear with my point of view. Let me try this again. What you're saying is already happening in cyro pre changed; with just one key difference.

Coordinated Long time pvpers (such as my pvp guilds) are doing exactly what you're pointing out. Getting a group 10-15 people running proxy det, swarm, etc etc and basically farming everyone who dosent have proxy. Proxy det is anything but a Zerg buster now. It's being used in EVERY single fight be it a 1v1 or a 20v20. I don't think proxy should be so effective in small scale but the sad truth is that it is. Used in conjunction with other delayed burst abilites coupled with an unblockable cc, there is very little counter play or skill involved. Any good player will save his unblockable cc for when proxy det is about to go off and time an ultimate with it. Unless you have cc immunity you're dead... All this does is let Long time pvpers farm New players. Not only do the new players lack the level of skill to play agaisnt people who have vigor/proxy unlocked, but shortchange them even more by prohibiting access to these essential pvp abilities.... No one likes to get farmed...

Not to mention proxy works from stealth as someone pointed out. It's basically the magicka version of camo hunter snipe spam.

I hope this is clearer!

Aah i see, i play on ps4 and the proxy problem isn't bad because a lot of people don't have access to it or are using stamina builds. Though i suppose you could also see that as progression also without det people would still do it with steel tornado/sap/swarm, proxy isn't the underlying problem there it's the group type of gameplay pvp has become.

I see it but only in massive fights and even then theres only a few capable of using it, any trying to use invet det usually just dies because of the cast time and the fact they need to get close.

Perhaps they should adjust it, but then again mag det is usually the only way i can kill a sorc on a magicka build, it's hard try to burst through 25k shields and then their hp bar. If they do nerf it then they need to make it bad in 1v1 1v2 but then increase it's radius and dmg so people actually slot it for groups. It would be sad if they nerfed it to the point it's usleless unless 10+ people are in it.

I'd be happy if they increase the cap to 200% increase the area by 6m but then reduce the base toolitp dmg to something like 6k. So in 1v1/2 etc .... it'll do about 3-4k dmg but when theres a big group of like 10+ it'll do more like 6k-9k

The sorc shields need to be toned down lol. Coupled with annulment they are nigh unkillable in magicka vs magicka fights lol. As for the proxy det yes, I'm totally in favour of making it more lethal to big groups and making it less viable in small scale or 1v1s.

Also id like to point out that without proxy most magicka builds are stuck with impulse or batswarm or meteor. Basically mostly ultimates that are aoes. These can be healed through. But.. Throw 10 proxies into the mix each going off at about 1-3 seconds from one another, you can imagine what would happen to a group. The thing is, you can arm proxies and do exactly what you pointed out. I can still use impulse, I can still have people doing steel tornado, i can still be casting all of my other abilities "WHILE" proxy is tick tocking away. Whereas groups that don't have proxy are not afforded this luxury. Kinda imbalances groups with proxy against groups without proxy. Add to the fact that Someone with proxy has prolly been pvping Long enough to be reasonably skilled, and you will see a serious disparity in group fights.

Toc de Malsvi

Ton's of skills can be blocked that does not change that unless you virtually negate damage to single targets there is no justifiable reason not to use proxy det. Lets see here do you want 3-5k or more damage at the same time as the rest of your burst? Or would you rather not have more damage with your burst? The skill being blockable is entirely irrelevant, lots of skills are blockable but good pvpers know how to set up and land damage.

The problem with Magicka Det and its morphs is that it does not require you to use current action time when it goes off, effectively giving you whatever ability you used + Magicka Det damage on top. Yes it is just as able to be countered but by the intended design it should not be very useful versus solo targets yet because of the way it works it will virtually always be a net damage gain to your burst.

leepalmer95

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ton's of skills can be blocked that does not change that unless you virtually negate damage to single targets there is no justifiable reason not to use proxy det. Lets see here do you want 3-5k or more damage at the same time as the rest of your burst? Or would you rather not have more damage with your burst? The skill being blockable is entirely irrelevant, lots of skills are blockable but good pvpers know how to set up and land damage.

The problem with Magicka Det and its morphs is that it does not require you to use current action time when it goes off, effectively giving you whatever ability you used + Magicka Det damage on top. Yes it is just as able to be countered but by the intended design it should not be very useful versus solo targets yet because of the way it works it will virtually always be a net damage gain to your burst.

You could say the same about a lot of skills, sorc vel curse does the same thing, Meteor has a delay until it hits, YOu can Heavy attack then Skill from stealth and they both hit hard, get the crit bonus as well as land the same time.

I can use a dark flare on my templar and then go into a toppling charge, root the guy with the gap closer stun and knock them with the an empowered charge and basically force the flare to hit,

Sorc class is based on burst, curse + frag + fury is the basic combo, curse + fury are both delayed and when your proc frag tips the enemy into execute range it's a free kill.

Nb's can do it from cloak, with concealed/proxy or HA/Sa

Dk' i don't think actually have it, but they can apply a few dots and burst you with proxy/meteor + fosilize, stam ones can do the same with with a wb/take flight.

So while mag det is one of them, it's not the only skill that does it and this type of gameplay was around before mag det was even in the game. It's the fact that in oreder to kill some you have to burst them in pvp, because the healibg/dodge roll/cloak/streak/vigor etc... lets people heal very easy, hence why i think executes are very important if you don't have one you need to burst someone down before they can react.

Toc de Malsvi

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ton's of skills can be blocked that does not change that unless you virtually negate damage to single targets there is no justifiable reason not to use proxy det. Lets see here do you want 3-5k or more damage at the same time as the rest of your burst? Or would you rather not have more damage with your burst? The skill being blockable is entirely irrelevant, lots of skills are blockable but good pvpers know how to set up and land damage.

The problem with Magicka Det and its morphs is that it does not require you to use current action time when it goes off, effectively giving you whatever ability you used + Magicka Det damage on top. Yes it is just as able to be countered but by the intended design it should not be very useful versus solo targets yet because of the way it works it will virtually always be a net damage gain to your burst.

You could say the same about a lot of skills, sorc vel curse does the same thing, Meteor has a delay until it hits, YOu can Heavy attack then Skill from stealth and they both hit hard, get the crit bonus as well as land the same time.

I can use a dark flare on my templar and then go into a toppling charge, root the guy with the gap closer stun and knock them with the an empowered charge and basically force the flare to hit,

Sorc class is based on burst, curse + frag + fury is the basic combo, curse + fury are both delayed and when your proc frag tips the enemy into execute range it's a free kill.

Nb's can do it from cloak, with concealed/proxy or HA/Sa

Dk' i don't think actually have it, but they can apply a few dots and burst you with proxy/meteor + fosilize, stam ones can do the same with with a wb/take flight.

So while mag det is one of them, it's not the only skill that does it and this type of gameplay was around before mag det was even in the game. It's the fact that in oreder to kill some you have to burst them in pvp, because the healibg/dodge roll/cloak/streak/vigor etc... lets people heal very easy, hence why i think executes are very important if you don't have one you need to burst someone down before they can react.

You're missing the point, Magicka Det was designed with the intent of a zerg buster, not with the intent that hey this will be the #1 go to spell for all damage versus all targets for anyone Magicka based. Snipe, Vel Curse, Dark Flare, these were all designed as single target dps skills with the delay as part of their design on purpose. While Meteor has the same issue that makes it so strong, Meteor is an ultimate insuring you will not be able to spam it on every encounter, and thus falls more inline with other ultimate's.

leepalmer95

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ton's of skills can be blocked that does not change that unless you virtually negate damage to single targets there is no justifiable reason not to use proxy det. Lets see here do you want 3-5k or more damage at the same time as the rest of your burst? Or would you rather not have more damage with your burst? The skill being blockable is entirely irrelevant, lots of skills are blockable but good pvpers know how to set up and land damage.

The problem with Magicka Det and its morphs is that it does not require you to use current action time when it goes off, effectively giving you whatever ability you used + Magicka Det damage on top. Yes it is just as able to be countered but by the intended design it should not be very useful versus solo targets yet because of the way it works it will virtually always be a net damage gain to your burst.

You could say the same about a lot of skills, sorc vel curse does the same thing, Meteor has a delay until it hits, YOu can Heavy attack then Skill from stealth and they both hit hard, get the crit bonus as well as land the same time.

I can use a dark flare on my templar and then go into a toppling charge, root the guy with the gap closer stun and knock them with the an empowered charge and basically force the flare to hit,

Sorc class is based on burst, curse + frag + fury is the basic combo, curse + fury are both delayed and when your proc frag tips the enemy into execute range it's a free kill.

Nb's can do it from cloak, with concealed/proxy or HA/Sa

Dk' i don't think actually have it, but they can apply a few dots and burst you with proxy/meteor + fosilize, stam ones can do the same with with a wb/take flight.

So while mag det is one of them, it's not the only skill that does it and this type of gameplay was around before mag det was even in the game. It's the fact that in oreder to kill some you have to burst them in pvp, because the healibg/dodge roll/cloak/streak/vigor etc... lets people heal very easy, hence why i think executes are very important if you don't have one you need to burst someone down before they can react.

You're missing the point, Magicka Det was designed with the intent of a zerg buster, not with the intent that hey this will be the #1 go to spell for all damage versus all targets for anyone Magicka based. Snipe, Vel Curse, Dark Flare, these were all designed as single target dps skills with the delay as part of their design on purpose. While Meteor has the same issue that makes it so strong, Meteor is an ultimate insuring you will not be able to spam it on every encounter, and thus falls more inline with other ultimate's.

A lot of skills were designed to be something and then where either useless or used for something completely different. Guard/revealing flare etc... no one actually uses them.

Oh and about meteor, that's going to be spammed the crap out of next patch, with everyone running around with battle frenzy 2, getting 20 ult per kill (30 if your a nb). On my nb, i'll get 30 ult a kill, 20 per pot drunk, ult for siphon ability not to mention the usual ult generation. I wouldn't be surprised if's spammed more than once every encounter.

Like i said i wouldn't mind if they nerfed the dmg vs single targets, but if it's only going to not be useless unless vs a lot of people (as in 15+) then decrease the base dmg, increase the range and the max %

Toc de Malsvi

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ton's of skills can be blocked that does not change that unless you virtually negate damage to single targets there is no justifiable reason not to use proxy det. Lets see here do you want 3-5k or more damage at the same time as the rest of your burst? Or would you rather not have more damage with your burst? The skill being blockable is entirely irrelevant, lots of skills are blockable but good pvpers know how to set up and land damage.

The problem with Magicka Det and its morphs is that it does not require you to use current action time when it goes off, effectively giving you whatever ability you used + Magicka Det damage on top. Yes it is just as able to be countered but by the intended design it should not be very useful versus solo targets yet because of the way it works it will virtually always be a net damage gain to your burst.

You could say the same about a lot of skills, sorc vel curse does the same thing, Meteor has a delay until it hits, YOu can Heavy attack then Skill from stealth and they both hit hard, get the crit bonus as well as land the same time.

I can use a dark flare on my templar and then go into a toppling charge, root the guy with the gap closer stun and knock them with the an empowered charge and basically force the flare to hit,

Sorc class is based on burst, curse + frag + fury is the basic combo, curse + fury are both delayed and when your proc frag tips the enemy into execute range it's a free kill.

Nb's can do it from cloak, with concealed/proxy or HA/Sa

Dk' i don't think actually have it, but they can apply a few dots and burst you with proxy/meteor + fosilize, stam ones can do the same with with a wb/take flight.

So while mag det is one of them, it's not the only skill that does it and this type of gameplay was around before mag det was even in the game. It's the fact that in oreder to kill some you have to burst them in pvp, because the healibg/dodge roll/cloak/streak/vigor etc... lets people heal very easy, hence why i think executes are very important if you don't have one you need to burst someone down before they can react.

You're missing the point, Magicka Det was designed with the intent of a zerg buster, not with the intent that hey this will be the #1 go to spell for all damage versus all targets for anyone Magicka based. Snipe, Vel Curse, Dark Flare, these were all designed as single target dps skills with the delay as part of their design on purpose. While Meteor has the same issue that makes it so strong, Meteor is an ultimate insuring you will not be able to spam it on every encounter, and thus falls more inline with other ultimate's.

A lot of skills were designed to be something and then where either useless or used for something completely different. Guard/revealing flare etc... no one actually uses them.

Oh and about meteor, that's going to be spammed the crap out of next patch, with everyone running around with battle frenzy 2, getting 20 ult per kill (30 if your a nb). On my nb, i'll get 30 ult a kill, 20 per pot drunk, ult for siphon ability not to mention the usual ult generation. I wouldn't be surprised if's spammed more than once every encounter.

Like i said i wouldn't mind if they nerfed the dmg vs single targets, but if it's only going to be useless vs a lot of people then decrease the base dmg, increase the range and the max %

Indeed, well the point of the thread is that their nerf which they intend to make it a group AOE use and not really single target wont change anything as long as there is meaningful damage to non group targets. Players will still run it and it will still be incredibly useful for maximizing your burst 1v1 although maybe not as useful as before.

leepalmer95

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Ton's of skills can be blocked that does not change that unless you virtually negate damage to single targets there is no justifiable reason not to use proxy det. Lets see here do you want 3-5k or more damage at the same time as the rest of your burst? Or would you rather not have more damage with your burst? The skill being blockable is entirely irrelevant, lots of skills are blockable but good pvpers know how to set up and land damage.

The problem with Magicka Det and its morphs is that it does not require you to use current action time when it goes off, effectively giving you whatever ability you used + Magicka Det damage on top. Yes it is just as able to be countered but by the intended design it should not be very useful versus solo targets yet because of the way it works it will virtually always be a net damage gain to your burst.

You could say the same about a lot of skills, sorc vel curse does the same thing, Meteor has a delay until it hits, YOu can Heavy attack then Skill from stealth and they both hit hard, get the crit bonus as well as land the same time.

I can use a dark flare on my templar and then go into a toppling charge, root the guy with the gap closer stun and knock them with the an empowered charge and basically force the flare to hit,

Sorc class is based on burst, curse + frag + fury is the basic combo, curse + fury are both delayed and when your proc frag tips the enemy into execute range it's a free kill.

Nb's can do it from cloak, with concealed/proxy or HA/Sa

Dk' i don't think actually have it, but they can apply a few dots and burst you with proxy/meteor + fosilize, stam ones can do the same with with a wb/take flight.

So while mag det is one of them, it's not the only skill that does it and this type of gameplay was around before mag det was even in the game. It's the fact that in oreder to kill some you have to burst them in pvp, because the healibg/dodge roll/cloak/streak/vigor etc... lets people heal very easy, hence why i think executes are very important if you don't have one you need to burst someone down before they can react.

You're missing the point, Magicka Det was designed with the intent of a zerg buster, not with the intent that hey this will be the #1 go to spell for all damage versus all targets for anyone Magicka based. Snipe, Vel Curse, Dark Flare, these were all designed as single target dps skills with the delay as part of their design on purpose. While Meteor has the same issue that makes it so strong, Meteor is an ultimate insuring you will not be able to spam it on every encounter, and thus falls more inline with other ultimate's.

A lot of skills were designed to be something and then where either useless or used for something completely different. Guard/revealing flare etc... no one actually uses them.

Oh and about meteor, that's going to be spammed the crap out of next patch, with everyone running around with battle frenzy 2, getting 20 ult per kill (30 if your a nb). On my nb, i'll get 30 ult a kill, 20 per pot drunk, ult for siphon ability not to mention the usual ult generation. I wouldn't be surprised if's spammed more than once every encounter.

Like i said i wouldn't mind if they nerfed the dmg vs single targets, but if it's only going to be useless vs a lot of people then decrease the base dmg, increase the range and the max %

Indeed, well the point of the thread is that their nerf which they intend to make it a group AOE use and not really single target wont change anything as long as there is meaningful damage to non group targets. Players will still run it and it will still be incredibly useful for maximizing your burst 1v1 although maybe not as useful as before.

Oh the difference is instead of 8k dmg in 1v1, i'll be doing 7k dmg. Such difference much wow. I actually think it got buffed this patch now i can double my dmg in group fights.

My 16k tooltip det now suddenly has 32k tooltip when vsing a group ^^

MaxwellC

I think Imma start running absorb magic on my stam dk instead of dw just to eat that comet for breakfast.

leepalmer95

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

I think Imma start running absorb magic on my stam dk instead of dw just to eat that comet for breakfast.

You'll basically stop it critting thats it. Pretty sure igneous will have a similar shield than a stam dk using harness.

Level66Charizard

How about lowering the base damage and having the explosion damage based off the amount of damage done to the caster?

Like by a % or have it max out.

Like the templar skill "Burning Light"

leepalmer95

Level66Charizard wrote: »

How about lowering the base damage and having the explosion damage based off the amount of damage done to the caster?

Like by a % or have it max out.

Like the templar skill "Burning Light"

Because we're not all immortal tanks.

Haquor

Vangy wrote: »

Obligatory L2block, L2p blah blah QQ.

On a sidenote its all fun and games until every single player ranging from noob,boobs and pros all have proxy det in a day or 2....or 3 if you're really bad at pvp.

All hail the cometh of 20 man zergs running 20 proxy dets and the rain of undodgeable, unreflectable fireball showers that come with the new and improved meteor. Any noob can time a meteor click with an unblockable cc lol. Not to mention that noob will also have proxy det ticking. You better be blocking and pray that noob is so noob he dosent know how to use streak or fear lol.

did i read you correctly? did you just claim that really bad pvpers will get about 100k AP a day? proxy in 3 days.... if they are bad.

even with double ap per player kill i kinda feel your calcs are way off there buddy.

Obligatory L2calc

llSRRll

I have a question and this may be a stupid one but can you just load up on magika defense like IDK like use Whitestrakes four piece set along with a 5 piece armor masters and nirnhoned the suckers? Seems like if your going to boost something somewhere you can counter it with your armor or is that just stupid?

Alucardo

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People really need to learn how to block , are people running around with such squishy builds that magicka det seems to be the only thing that kills them?

Good magblades will fear me just before the det goes off. Blocking isn't always an option. Truth is, this skill hits me harder than Dawnbreaker, and dawnbreaker is a freaking ultimate.

leepalmer95

Alucardo wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People really need to learn how to block , are people running around with such squishy builds that magicka det seems to be the only thing that kills them?

Good magblades will fear me just before the det goes off. Blocking isn't always an option. Truth is, this skill hits me harder than Dawnbreaker, and dawnbreaker is a freaking ultimate.

I do think you shouldn't be able to cloak if you have it cast.

But don't forget about mag dk's, mag templar etc... that use dk to burst people.

Mag dk's rely on det + ult to actually kill people because of low dmg skills + no execute.

Templars have no decent aoe and so rely on it to burst people as well considering all their skills are channeled.

Scrippie10

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

People really need to learn how to block , are people running around with such squishy builds that magicka det seems to be the only thing that kills them?

Magic det can be used from stealth what every one jsut needs to walk around cyrodiil with block up 24/7 ?

Although it can be used from stealth, the red circle animation still appears. You simply wont be able to see who is casting it, but you will definitely see the circle around them.

Whenever I see one I just think to myself.. "Oh look, someone is trying to be sneaky and failed. Better stay away from that red circle"

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Why not make Proximity Detonation a 2-push skill?

You activate once to load the skill and get it prepped. Then when it's ready, you hit the button again to activate it.

Kind of like Grim Focus. That way, it's not just fire-and-forget but something you have to think about.

Oh, and if you bar swap, make the timer on it reset.

Just my 2 Septims.

Rva_Kun

lol

SmalltalkJava

Proxy hits harder than sorc velocious curse on main target. and on extra targets its 2x better. VC only does half damage to secondary targets.

Buff VC!

leepalmer95

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Proxy hits harder than sorc velocious curse on main target. and on extra targets its 2x better. VC only does half damage to secondary targets.

Buff VC!

Proxy is an 8 second wait.

You could get 2x VC in that time...

Oh and proxy isn't a target them, cast and forget skill like VC is