My view on how ZOS handels balancing

slumber_sandb16_ESO

I dont mind changes every quarter if they did changes for every part. Thieves guild is pretty much all about magicka, dark brotherhood will be all about stamina. Back and forth instead of doing changes to both.

Now we'll probably see really strong skills and builds in thieves guild that are magicka based and then when Dark brotherhood comes along they'll overnerf skills because people say they're OP while stamina skills will get buffed way too much until next DLC. Repeat forever.

WalkingLegacy

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

I dont mind changes every quarter if they did changes for every part. Thieves guild is pretty much all about magicka, dark brotherhood will be all about stamina. Back and forth instead of doing changes to both.

Now we'll probably see really strong skills and builds in thieves guild that are magicka based and then when Dark brotherhood comes along they'll overnerf skills because people say they're OP while stamina skills will get buffed way too much until next DLC. Repeat forever.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/247155/class-balance-and-updates-are-not-dlc-features#latest

Quarterly fixes for QoL and balance is not acceptable.

Cherryblossom

ZOS when it comes to Balancing and updates, is :

Hmmm we have this circular hole and this Square Block, hmmmm someone get me a hammer.....

rager82b14_ESO

This development team lacks common sense.


Why have skills that are so underpower and pointless?

HoloYoitsu

Wrobel already answered that: so that you can have FUN skills. Remember he already explained why you would want to be a sorcerer - "so that you can call storms!"

Must be why we have Lightning Splash.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

FENGRUSH wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Phelaen wrote: »

ZOS doesnt seem to care at all.
also they had a whole talk about all classes having a special feel and therefor they made:
templars not have mobility
sorcs not have single instacast damage and stamina morphs
DK having no execute skill
and nightblades.. well nightblades have ALL THOSE THINGS

Ok, so Nightblades have everything...

Do Nightblades have a skill like Thundering Presence (you know, that stamina morph of Lightening Form in the Sorcerer Storm Calling skill line)?
Do Nightblades have the ability to put up a protective shield in their class skill lines?

Tell you what, just follow the link it'll be easier. I think you will find that every class has something unique about them.

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Class+Skills

quick cloak works kinda like lightning form

Not sure what skill line Quick Cloak is in. There's Shadow Cloak, Dark Cloak and Shadowy Disguise but there about being hidden and setting up for a nasty surprise. Only on the 7th March, that nasty surprise is going to be on the Nightblade. The sneaky class isn't going to be as sneaky.

Lightening Form on the other hand damages anyone that comes near the Sorcerer, and comes in magicka and stamina morphs. A favourite of Stamina Sorcs I believe when they are solo farming mass numbers.

I dont know if youre actually serious with this post.

Lightning form is used for its utility - major buffs, all of which nightblade has as well. The classes that dont have this sort of thing from speed + defense is DK and templar, only the defense portion.


Also stam + magicka morph?? Everyone uses the magicka morph, the stam morph is absolutely godawful and shows nobody @ZOS is actually playing stam sorc. It does less damage per tick than caltrops.

Ok, so you have a stam sorc that dual wields, activates Thundering Presence, then throws caltrops, then steel tornado on top of that, then runs around gathering every mob in the area.... I'm kind of leaning to the Tesco motto of every little helps here. The fact is the post I responded to states categorically that NBs have everything. No they don't and other classes have something that the others don't.

Each skill perform a different task which is based on what that class is likely to use it for based on the imagination of the designer of that skill. We as players have twisted the skill to use it in situations where we see fit. Is it the Devs fault or the players fault for this? The fact is Elder Scrolls as a whole has created this situation by stating that it doesn't matter what class you are, you can play it as you see fit leading to DKs running around in robes. There are so many character combinations that it is impossible to design a skill so each combination finds a use for it. What the design team needs to do is start creating more skills and options for us.

Players are looking at skills and saying "I've got nothing to counter that, it must be nerfed!!!" The NB cloak is a prime example of this. But there were plenty of counters for it, if you haven't got them counters on your skill bar, who's fault is that?

Nerfing skills is a lazy way of balance it just keeps bringing everyone down to the same point where no matter what you do, a mud crab will rip you a new one. Comparing one skill from a class against other skills from other classes is stupid. I mean comparing Double Take with Thundering Presence.

Instead, look at a skill that is constantly giving you nightmares, then look at what skills you got available to deal with it. If it's not on your skill bar, then decide for yourself if it's worth taking off a skill you like to put on a counter. If there is absolutely no skills available to you to deal with the skill in question, then yeah you have a leg to stand on and ask for one of your own skills to be changed that would be as close as possible to a counter.

I'd ask @HoloYoitsu what he thinks, but apparently he doesn't want to debate and only compare skills that have no relationship to each other. Not even going to bother scoring you on your laughable attempt for me to respond.

Tried editing several times, for some reason it's bold where it shouldn't be, sorry for that.

Syrani

These are a few things that I don't like about the way they make changes:

1) They are way too heavy handed at times and it doesn't always seem to be well thought out (ex: CP system)

2) They seem to go about balancing the game from a PVP perspective without regard to PVE (ex: Breath of Life nerf, AoE caps, stam regen while blocking)

3) They don't fix ability bugs in a timely manner (2 years and counting for Toppling Charge?)

4) They make too many major changes too often, when they should be making minor tweaks on a regular basis (not just for DLC's)

5) A few times there have been things that have been bugged/overtuned/undertuned on the PTS that seem to get ignored and make it to live, even when there is a good bit of player feedback to document the issues. I don't think they leave themselves enough time to make any fixes, and I guess they just plan to fix it "eventually", and have no plans to delay the DLC at all. (why even have a PTS?)

6) They seem to listen to a vocal minority when they decide to change things, without considering all the ramifications, or whether they should even be listening to those people.

Lots of stuff here that makes me angry.

Edit: spelling

HoloYoitsu

@FENGRUSH This guy is a PvE'r, it finally makes sense.

Kelleton

DKS cant have a driect damage ability, escape or execute ability to create clear differences in classes? fine - just make their stuff function differently. So much in that ESO live that shows this guy has no creativity or any idea what he is doing.

FENGRUSH

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Phelaen wrote: »

ZOS doesnt seem to care at all.
also they had a whole talk about all classes having a special feel and therefor they made:
templars not have mobility
sorcs not have single instacast damage and stamina morphs
DK having no execute skill
and nightblades.. well nightblades have ALL THOSE THINGS

Ok, so Nightblades have everything...

Do Nightblades have a skill like Thundering Presence (you know, that stamina morph of Lightening Form in the Sorcerer Storm Calling skill line)?
Do Nightblades have the ability to put up a protective shield in their class skill lines?

Tell you what, just follow the link it'll be easier. I think you will find that every class has something unique about them.

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Class+Skills

quick cloak works kinda like lightning form

Not sure what skill line Quick Cloak is in. There's Shadow Cloak, Dark Cloak and Shadowy Disguise but there about being hidden and setting up for a nasty surprise. Only on the 7th March, that nasty surprise is going to be on the Nightblade. The sneaky class isn't going to be as sneaky.

Lightening Form on the other hand damages anyone that comes near the Sorcerer, and comes in magicka and stamina morphs. A favourite of Stamina Sorcs I believe when they are solo farming mass numbers.

I dont know if youre actually serious with this post.

Lightning form is used for its utility - major buffs, all of which nightblade has as well. The classes that dont have this sort of thing from speed + defense is DK and templar, only the defense portion.


Also stam + magicka morph?? Everyone uses the magicka morph, the stam morph is absolutely godawful and shows nobody @ZOS is actually playing stam sorc. It does less damage per tick than caltrops.

Ok, so you have a stam sorc that dual wields, activates Thundering Presence, then throws caltrops, then steel tornado on top of that, then runs around gathering every mob in the area.... I'm kind of leaning to the Tesco motto of every little helps here. The fact is the post I responded to states categorically that NBs have everything. No they don't and other classes have something that the others don't.

Each skill perform a different task which is based on what that class is likely to use it for based on the imagination of the designer of that skill. We as players have twisted the skill to use it in situations where we see fit. Is it the Devs fault or the players fault for this? The fact is Elder Scrolls as a whole has created this situation by stating that it doesn't matter what class you are, you can play it as you see fit leading to DKs running around in robes. There are so many character combinations that it is impossible to design a skill so each combination finds a use for it. What the design team needs to do is start creating more skills and options for us.

Players are looking at skills and saying "I've got nothing to counter that, it must be nerfed!!!" The NB cloak is a prime example of this. But there were plenty of counters for it, if you haven't got them counters on your skill bar, who's fault is that?

Nerfing skills is a lazy way of balance it just keeps bringing everyone down to the same point where no matter what you do, a mud crab will rip you a new one. Comparing one skill from a class against other skills from other classes is stupid. I mean comparing Double Take with Thundering Presence.

Instead, look at a skill that is constantly giving you nightmares, then look at what skills you got available to deal with it. If it's not on your skill bar, then decide for yourself if it's worth taking off a skill you like to put on a counter. If there is absolutely no skills available to you to deal with the skill in question, then yeah you have a leg to stand on and ask for one of your own skills to be changed that would be as close as possible to a counter.

I'd ask @HoloYoitsu what he thinks, but apparently he doesn't want to debate and only compare skills that have no relationship to each other. Not even going to bother scoring you on your laughable attempt for me to respond.

Tried editing several times, for some reason it's bold where it shouldn't be, sorry for that.

I dont even get what youre talking about gathering up mobs with lightning armor - its not even helping kill faster. NB can kill it faster simply due to passives and still get the same buffs from that lightning armor lol.....

Also, there were some counters to cloak but many of them were not actually good. Cloak would also be spammed while using said counters and you would still dodge the impending attack even with reveal as it would still disjoint. Cloak was technically broken and could be used very effectively in the hands of someone who knows how to play the game. Change was needed - these analogies argue absolutely nothing against that.

PhatGrimReaper

1,000,000 gold says DKs get a nerf within two weeks of TG release.

Artjuh90

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

1,000,000 gold says DKs get a nerf within two weeks of TG release.

are you on xbox EU? i'll take that bet. ZOS doesn't balance that fast

Artjuh90

@Syrani point 4 of your post is exactly what i mean. they show they are already bad at balancing and then they do all changes all in one mayor update and think they fixed it. no, ZOS you dont really