Templar Skill Changes to Ritual and Radius

Essiaga

@Wrobel on ESO Live talking about Templar's immobility and being tied within the area of Rune and Cleansing Ritual ... "This is my house ... "

What do you get for being in your house? Its not like we get increased damage, debuff enemy damage, gain unique mitigation buffs, etc. Its just the basic mitigation buffs that all classes have (and they have them for much longer duration, on skills that have more utility and less restriction), and a HoT that pails compared to Vigor (which is mobile). So our "house" is a tiny, weak little circle where as the rest of the world belongs to everyone but us.

Aren't we lucky to have spent the past 2 years building a Templar so that we can stand still and die super F-ing fast. To hear a Sorc complain about ambush spamming is laughable. Try doing it as a Templar.

When a Sorc Streaks w/ shields and Lightning Form or a NB Cloaks/teleport w/Double Take, etc. fewer people chase them then stay to zerg the Templar. Once you're identified as a Templar you are THE focus, and easily taken down. BOL simply is not strong enough to keep you alive verse multiple enemies. Puncturing Strikes can't keep you alive and of course Sun Shield is a joke. So we templars feel completely weak since we have no mitigation to go with our immobility, and inferior burst damage and sustain damaged since our PS lands maybe 3 of the 4 jabs and the damage passive (Burning Light) doesn't proc on shield (nor does the health return) and doesn't have as much of a chance to proct as it suggests due to the cool down tied to it. So in PVP were are last in every catigory but one. Healing. Judging based on the changes to the other classes that gap is also decreasing.

We depend on Vamp, Magick Det, Meteor, armor skills (including ones that cost stam), resto staff (AS THE HEALING CLASS!!!) as well as sword and shield for Defensive Posture (which is better then Eclipse) and added mitigation and spend CP in away that boost S&S, etc to make up for all the crap that we lack. So a Templar needs to be Mages Guild 10 before having a viable Ult, or AR 6 to have via burst damage, or suffer CamoHunter and become vamp for 3sec of mobility and mitigation, or sacrifice damage and utility via weapons to gain more mitigation and defense other classes just HAVE.

Then there's resources and spell costs and the weak passives ... My NB got more from passives at level 12. But I believe @Wrobel when he says there's no favoritism and that they love all classes equally. That was sarcasm btw.

Bottom line is both magicka and stam builds are paper dolls as there's no mitigation in this class.

Is Double Take a tanking Skill? Is Mass Hysteria a tanking skill? Is Hardened Ward a tanking skill? Is Reflective Scales a tanking skill? or are they utilized by both magicka DPS (and healers) and Stamina builds in PVP? Blinding Flashes, Sun Shield, or added mitigation via buffs(Protection/Evasion) or debuffs (maim) isn't just tanking skills. They are what makes the 3 classes that have it better in PVP then the class that does not. Stamplars STINK for lack of class utility and mobility and that simply an extension of the fact that its not there for magicka build as well.

Blinding Flashes for tanking ... its clear that @Wrobel does not understand the game for which he is the LEAD God damn COMBAT DESIGNER. He simply doesn't get PVP and only considers PVE. Hence Battle Spirit.

Notice how they did not address the Templar at all? Stamina abilities and Heavy Armor got hope ... Templar as a class just got ignored, just like here on the forums. There is no hope for the foreseeable future. Not as long as this Combat Design team is in place. They only balance PVE which causes PVP to become more imbalanced. Another bite of $#!+ sandwich for the Templar class today.

Bossdonut

If its my house I certainly can't afford the mortgage.

blackcom90

Essiaga wrote: »

There is no hope for the foreseeable future. Not as long as this Combat Design team is in place. They only balance PVE which causes PVP to become more imbalanced. Another bite of $#!+ sandwich for the Templar class today.

Well the pve now is unbalanced too due to the fact that the templar will have to spit blood to heal. On all the rest i agree with you....

I had a sudden realization when he said shielder dk and "my house"...
They added cp that are paragons points, they added trove scamps that are the goblin from diablo and now?
Now, healing wise, they want to have a buffer class, an hotter class, a pet class that support aaaand a heavy healing and resource dispenser that doesn't move class.

Basically @Wrobel it's copying bethesda on the healer structure!
The dk will be the priest with its buffs and shields, the nb a druid with more dmg, the sorc the hunter that pop out the pet to do wonders and the templar?
The templar will be the pally!
It will stand still while taking damage and providing aoe healing, st healing and resources!

So mister W it's only a copycat that can not even copy well... because in this game if you stay still you die.

Nightenhowl

I would only use Healing Ritual if they added a buff like Major Protection and decreased cast time to 1 sec.

blackcom90

Nightenhowl wrote: »

I would only use Healing Ritual if they added a buff like Major Protection and decreased cast time to 1 sec.

and immunity to interrupt... remember it or any time you go arena, pvp or a trials with add you will be interrupted

Elsonso

timidobserver wrote: »

I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that Wrobel is doing, but I can at least understand the logic behind most of it. Healing Ritual is the one thing I cannot even begin to understand. I know that he probably has a high IQ and feels the need to be stubborn about people calling his designs bad, but this skill is just horrible and has always been horrible. Increasing the radius isn't going to help that.

Nah, I disagree. I think that with a larger radius, let's say 15m, it would allow the caster to move around a bit more. That would be a good improvement. Is everyone going to drop what they are doing and start using it? Probably not. Not everyone has to like the ability, but even without a radius increase, people will use it.

Overall, I think they made good changes to the class. It may not be as far as people want it to go, but it's overall better than today. I want to see what they come up with finally, as they may tweak things between now and March.

Mithlob

I was actually trying my damnedest to remain focused on my v16 Templar and just recently switched over to my V1 Nightblade. The combination of his mobility, utility, defenses and passives creates such a better class overall its appalling to say the least. It so frustrating to consistently (and greatly) out perform my V16 Temp as a V1 Nb.

It really has nothing to do with the broken skills or BoL nerf and everything to do with the complete lack of synergy. Even with the bugs gone and a unchanged BoL the abilities are lackluster and very situational. We have channels for an immobile class so we can't kite, we have no interrupt protection for all these channels, and we can't block cast because they are channels unlike all the other classes. We're a grotesque mix of range and melee that lacks any really combos or burst and with our inability to escape and weaker sustain we can't wear them down and if we do they just Cloak/Bolt/Talon (and sprint) away. Then we have an entire tree dedicated to healing which is slowly being removed as a Templar strength (not to mention the Stamplars sitting in the corner scratching their heads and thinking "Why do we only have 2 class trees?") and incorporating them into other classes' already pretty well defined abilities and passives. All we have it seems is just random "cool stuff" devs would throw together at the end of a Alpha/Beta.

But after seeing the last ESO Live and their shi... interesting reasoning I'm done for now.

timidobserver

lordrichter wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that Wrobel is doing, but I can at least understand the logic behind most of it. Healing Ritual is the one thing I cannot even begin to understand. I know that he probably has a high IQ and feels the need to be stubborn about people calling his designs bad, but this skill is just horrible and has always been horrible. Increasing the radius isn't going to help that.

Nah, I disagree. I think that with a larger radius, let's say 15m, it would allow the caster to move around a bit more. That would be a good improvement. Is everyone going to drop what they are doing and start using it? Probably not. Not everyone has to like the ability, but even without a radius increase, people will use it.

Overall, I think they made good changes to the class. It may not be as far as people want it to go, but it's overall better than today. I want to see what they come up with finally, as they may tweak things between now and March.

I'd have to disagree. The radius isn't the issue. There are very few situations in which this heal is superior to other options even if it had a 10-15m radius.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

blackcom90 wrote: »

Nightenhowl wrote: »

I would only use Healing Ritual if they added a buff like Major Protection and decreased cast time to 1 sec.

and immunity to interrupt... remember it or any time you go arena, pvp or a trials with add you will be interrupted

and increased the healing radius...

in which case it becomes better than pre nerf breath of life ... aka pointless!

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

lordrichter wrote: »

Nah, I disagree. I think that with a larger radius, let's say 15m, it would allow the caster to move around a bit more. That would be a good improvement.

15m still won't get it slotted. 15m is barely more than your puddle. It needs 25+ to be viable. In which case, as stated above, it becomes a more powerful version of BOL which got nerfed.

Healing ritual needs to be changed to a completely different ability.

MikeB

Healing Ritual will require your group stand within 10m of one another to get healed, which is suicide in most, if not all, cases. Your logic escapes me @Wrobel, a long with people that don't even play a templar. Even if the radius is increased the cast time and snare are enough to not use HR. Learn your game before you take any further development action's.

Inarre

Ffastyl wrote: »

Cleansing Ritual.

That gives you the Major Mending buff from Templar passives. It has a big radius. It's cheap. You can morph to Extended to last 17 seconds. The Major Mending buff persists for 4 seconds outside of the abilities' areas.

There is room to maneuver.

Im absolutely with you here and i even promote the changes to cleansing ritual. But making this change and then saying "dont use bol for everything, use healing ritual too" doesnt make sense.

I GET wrobels inspiration for the templar but if we have to stand still and channel we have to get something else going in order not to die. No one in this game can sit in red circles or stand and heal through a spam bush and live indefinitely, least of all a healer build templar which in this day and age is rocking minimum 5 piece light... A necessity in order to provide more support to their team than a wet noodle. (And trust me, ive even done the heavy templar. It was more survivable, but i was constantly out of magic for team support even with pots and constant channeled focus and my burst heals were as effective as hots. Other classes do not have to choose between self survival and supporting their team.)

We either need more mobility or we need something like reduced damage while channeling (think rememberance) to prevent us from dying while standing in harms way.

And for gods sake dont say "ok team, you dont have to stand in in this 12 meter circle anymore! But uh. Can you come stand in this 10 meter one? "

*facepalm*

Lord Xanhorn

Templar is simply not a 1vX class and apparently never will be. If you want to PVP with your Templar, get a group and heal the hell out of them.....don't mind that momentum/vigor, will outheal your BOL all day and cost next to no resources.

Templar is a PVE class only and if you attempt to play it PVP, you just will be at a disadvantage. And apparently this difference in class outlook is "fun" and "interesting".

Yup very fun and interesting that PVP landscape is 90% NBs and Sorcs.

Ugh

kylewwefan

pecheckler wrote: »

Problem #1 - YOU HAVE TO STAND STILL.

I want to move around and heal! Can you make the circle of immobility move around with the templar?



Problem#2 - Healing ritual is junk. The range is terrible. It's not a viable heal.

I suggest you keep the original healing ritual cast time, double with radial range, and then limit select reasonable limit to number of allies affected.

I just opened it up on my level 18 healer. The heals are good, but cast time and range not so much. I think doubling the range would make it a little OP as that would fill up most rooms. Maybe if they make it egg shaped, conical with extended range it could be good.

Lightninvash

I say if they want to buff the healing ritual they should reduce the cast time(which they are) and/or add a reduced damage taken for allies within the 10meter radius. that way they wont die/ have lower chance to die while casting the spell. Could have an increase in range to 15meters however it would be then an issue whilst in pvp and zerging

Francescolg

I play my Templar mostly in pugs/random pvp groups, as I like to listen to music while playing
So, after 2 years of random dungeon groups (mostly daily quests) and NO difficult content (no AA, etc.) and no-IC dungeons, I can tell you that - no matter HOW easy you find silver+gold dungeons - as a Templar I needed the "triple" Breath of Life!

When "not-so well players" get their damage, I don't even have the time for any ritual, not even for a weapon attack, as 2-3 players all together drop below 50% health really fast...

Some players are so unexperienced, that the only way to heal them was constant moving and Breath of Life spamming for 30-60 seconds. As soon as I'd do a weapon attack to regenerate magicka I'd lose 1 player. The same applies to Puryfying Ritual and forget about Resto-Staff spot healing, which won't work.

So, they really cripple my healing and therefore my motivation to use the grouping tool or to join any further random groups. We'll see where that leads to!?

Lightninvash

Francescolg wrote: »

I play my Templar mostly in pugs/random pvp groups, as I like to listen to music while playing
So, after 2 years of random dungeon groups (mostly daily quests) and NO difficult content (no AA, etc.) and no-IC dungeons, I can tell you that - no matter HOW easy you find silver+gold dungeons - as a Templar I needed the "triple" Breath of Life!

When "not-so well players" get their damage, I don't even have the time for any ritual, not even for a weapon attack!

Some players are so unexperienced, that the only way to heal them was constant moving and Breath of Life spamming. As soon as I'd do a weapon attack, to regenerate magicka, I'd lose 1 or 2 players, the same applies for Puryfying Ritual, and forget about Resto-Staff spot healing, which won't work in less-well off groups!

So, they really cripple my healing and therefore my motivation to use the grouping tool or to join any further random groups.

ZOS must decide who they want to keep in ESO: the organized (spot healing) zergs, the few Maelstrom-Arena farmers OR the broad mass that does not understand so much about gaming mechanics.

this is the problem that I bolded when a player is that bad the best thing isn't to BOL them and nothing more. They will not learn that way. They will eventually expect the same treatment down the road and wont get it. They need to learn to use their class and saving them now and then is ok that's the norm but if you have to spam BOL to keep them standing stop doing it. show them they are doing something not like the others. then when they are confused help them so they in the end game setting think being healer=spam BOL because that's all that can keep them alive. I know where you are coming from about the BOL spam but I even use healing ritual from time to time( normally right before the start of a pull) so the tank has a delayed heal that will proc 8 seconds into the pull so I don't have to hit BOL and just throw out hot heals and shards( maybe a combat prayer or 2.) But the people who require the BOL spam need to learn how to survive on their own that receiving any heals keeps them alive.

When I build a DPS I never expect any heals(my fiancé plays a Templar) I play as if there is no healer and I have to self sustain. Now if I get heals yes that's one less skill I need to hit to survive. But I have never needed a BOL spam to keep my DPS alive. Now that being said 1/2 yes that I can see crap happens but your rotation should never be BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL heavy attack BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL heavy attack and repeat. because then you are not able to throw down cleanse combat prayer ward ally any thing that can help sometimes I like to throw on force syphon just to see if it helps(still don't know if its useful at all.) I have even been known to throw in some jabs and radiant oppression on the bosses when time comes to help burst down.

That's all I have to say about that.(Forrest Gump reference)

A lot of people don't use the channeled heal because they don't know when to use it. when used before a pull or after a BOL spam and you hit it 2-3 times they get a bonus heal at 8 10 and 12 secs so that's 3 extra heals you don't need to BOL for meaning buff time shards and regen for your own magicka

xellink

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nah, I disagree. I think that with a larger radius, let's say 15m, it would allow the caster to move around a bit more. That would be a good improvement.

15m still won't get it slotted. 15m is barely more than your puddle. It needs 25+ to be viable. In which case, as stated above, it becomes a more powerful version of BOL which got nerfed.

Healing ritual needs to be changed to a completely different ability.

100 m. Make it 100m. Make the animation obvious. Let everyone know there's a healing beacon there and they have to go for the house!

Francescolg

Lightninvash wrote: »

your rotation should never be BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL heavy attack BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL heavy attack and repeat. because then you are not able to throw down cleanse combat prayer ward ally any thing that can help sometimes I like to throw on force syphon just to see if it helps

Healing in ESO could be done perfectly just with weapon attacks and BoL What made a difference was the right gear, as many halers went for max spell dmg. I did not, as I rely on sustainability, which means over 2k magicka regen.

You do not need at all destruction staff for Weakness to Elements (other classes will debuff)
You do not need at all resto staff for Combat Prayer for Quick Siphon (other classes offer some of the group buffs)

Healing has worked perfectly the last 2 years completely without this skills (PvP and PvE).

IMO, a good templar makes 3 things: best stamina regeneration support (Spear/xx), healing and damage. If I keep up "perfect stamina support", I do not have at all the time to throw in more goodies, as I must take care of my magicka (ritual, weapon attacks) and constantly look where to place my spear, while trying to stay alive.

Healing in certain random groups is much more difficult than healing your guild-buddies: you won't have the time for extra-goodies (see above), you'll need enough magicka regeneration for BoL + stamina support + damage and, at the same time, your personal defense was crippled (Blazing Shield). That is enough to work with for me and it didn't need any changes!

Lightninvash

Francescolg wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

your rotation should never be BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL heavy attack BOL BOL BOL BOL BOL heavy attack and repeat. because then you are not able to throw down cleanse combat prayer ward ally any thing that can help sometimes I like to throw on force syphon just to see if it helps

Healing in ESO could be done perfectly just with weapon attacks and BoL What made a difference was the right gear, as many halers went for max spell dmg. I did not, as I rely on sustainability, which means over 2k magicka regen.

You do not need at all destruction staff for Weakness to Elements (other classes will debuff)
You do not need at all resto staff for Combat Prayer for Quick Siphon (other classes offer some of the group buffs)

Healing has worked perfectly the last 2 years completely without this skills (PvP and PvE).

IMO, a good templar makes 3 things: best stamina regeneration support (Spear/xx), healing and damage. If I keep up "perfect stamina support", I do not have at all the time to throw in more goodies, as I must take care of my magicka (ritual, weapon attacks) and constantly look where to place my spear, while trying to stay alive.

Healing in certain random groups is much more difficult than healing your guild-buddies: you won't have the time for extra-goodies (see above), you'll need enough magicka regeneration for BoL + stamina support + damage and, at the same time, your personal defense was crippled (Blazing Shield). That is enough to work with for me and it didn't need any changes!

this isn't true. I heal in pugs and in pug cyrodiil. Is it harder? yes. Do I spam BOL? No. Why? I simply don't need it. I know how to use skills other than the spam of one skill. That's what knowing your class is. It is about how to use your class to sustain yourself while keeping up the output of damage. Fun fact I have yet to group with guild buddies it is always PUGS. I kind of like the change to BOL it will show us who the real healers are vs the BOL spammers who are not going to be preforming on par with the rest. BOL is an over used skill( granted a good one) but is not the only heal worth using. If you have issues with PUGS and have to spam BOL id say you are doing it wrong and should figure it out( there is a cool down on how often someone can grab shards btw )so you don't need to spam that one either. just toss it at the tank and if you desire/have stam dps at them now and again( normally I go for the dps who knows what they are doing and outputting more dmg and always for the tank)

Just some tips for you bud

Lore_lai

Healing Ritual is only good for the LOLs if you have a Xivkyn polymorph.

Molag_Crow

100% agree.