stam/mag focus is an illusion that harms creativity.

wskill

Ive always been a speaker against metagaming while i have been a very competitive player 5-10 years ago in many skill based games, (to those who dont know the meaning; metagaming stands for creating optimal builds in games for competition sake, adopted by') because it not only limits innovation as those who lobby (and mainly for their own interest) for role orientation have an effect on dev's balancing with as result sets roles in stone so distinctly. These lobbys are practically a veil before the developers eyes, clouding the true problems of a game and making it seem like just changing components and effects to fit into a certain 'once again' set-in-stone model is the way to go. Afterall such models are promoted as being 'easily recognicable' therefore inviting.

Thing is, this typical mmo model has thrived since the old days for one reason apparently forgotten or ignored; innovation.
Innovation is not the abillity to recognice and pinpoint optimal playstyles for a meta, optimal playstyle finds were instead an indication that required balancing in relation as such consisted of having an edge over other playstyles, not to be the status quo that made everything else inferior.

No.. The innovative are the people who weave a web through components and effects to create; relevantto their playstyle. Changing whole skills for the sake of role-purism sabotages that, and thus narrows it all down untill what you are left with are the four base roles, currently still labeled with stam/mag subroles, wich in its own is already an illusion as there are much more skill chimes that work than just the resource differences.

Now this is still a slippery slope, afterall you dont want to level everything to be equal in every situation, that is why i use the words 'in relation'. Something that is optimal in pvp isnt always optimal in pve, something in pve isnt always optimal in pvp, and that is exactly in the same comparisan as to why you cant just change a whole skill to force a more distinct stam/mag subrole while people make such skills work in their own relative combinations and intention. But this is what some people are calling for on these forums, i noticed' and i have to reason against publically before i see this great game be done harm.

When you want to balance something, you balance it downward (excesses to be reduced) with the numbers, you dont completely change components and effects of skills. I rest my case for now.

Feel free to chip in any thoughts, childish remarks will be ignored, intelligent arguments and comments very welcome.

Husan

I'm really sorry, but I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm serious, I simply don't understand. Any way you could put your thoughts in a short, concise sentence? Again, I'm not trolling. I really am confused . Are you saying there used to be creativity and innovation and MMOs and now there isn't anymore? If that is the case, why are you AGAINST innovativity in game balancing?

wskill wrote: »

When you want to balance something, you balance it downward (excesses to be reduced) with the numbers, you dont completely change components and effects of skills. I rest my case for now.

wskill

Husan wrote: »

I'm really sorry, but I have no idea what you are trying to say. I'm serious, I simply don't understand. Any way you could put your thoughts in a short, concise sentence? Again, I'm not trolling. I really am confused . Are you saying there used to be creativity and innovation and MMOs and now there isn't anymore? If that is the case, why are you AGAINST innovativity in game balancing?

wskill wrote: »

When you want to balance something, you balance it downward (excesses to be reduced) with the numbers, you dont completely change components and effects of skills. I rest my case for now.

Im not sure if i can say it in a more simple format but ill try..

This is about how changing skills and their effects to fit into a distinct role is the worse idea of balancing compared to just tweaking the strenghts of skills that didnt seem to fit into that distinct role based on optimalization. in this thread i try to explain why.

ryanborror

wskill wrote: »

When you want to balance something, you balance it downward (excesses to be reduced) with the numbers, you dont completely change components and effects of skills. I rest my case for now.

[/quote]

Im not sure if i can say it in a more simple format but ill try..

This is about how changing skills and their effects to fit into a distinct role is the worse idea of balancing compared to just tweaking the strenghts of skills that didnt seem to fit into that distinct role based on optimalization. in this thread i try to explain why.[/quote]

I think I understand your intentions. Patch 1.6 gave us a lot of Stam morphs, new skills and created a clear division between weapon damage and spell damage. I think if anything this helped players be more individual rather than force them to play s certain way. If anything the game at launch clearly favored magic dps making any stamina build very sub optimal therefor most people avoided it. The change allowed people to play a stamina build effectively. There will always be players who find the most effective builds in any game and while it is unfortunate that hybrid builds won't be optimal, I think it's right. I know the game is "play how you want" but if a hybrid could do the most damage while tanking and healing just as effectively it'd be stupid overpowered and no one would work together. The classes are meant to balance and compliment one another. If they all could do everything all the time the game would be less enjoyable in my opinion. I think the new changes for champion points in thieves guild will open things up to be a little more creative as far as builds go so I'm optimistic.